Toyota to recall 3.8M vehicles over floor mats

[eSZee]

The BS-o-meter just went to eleven.



Video Link: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/09/video-san-diego-runaway-prius-has-media-buzzing/#continued

I'm not buying this, and seriously how stupid do you have to be (or must you feel) that you don't know how to stop a car with the emergency brake and had to have a cop shout it over a loud speaker.

So in the time it took the car to go from 60 to 90mph, he was able to:
1. call the police
2. reach down and try to move the pedal himself
3. A random cop caught up to the car and yelled out directions
4. cop got in front of the car and stopped him.

I know the prius is slow, but that slow?
The guy is looking down or to the side the entire time he's explaining what he was doing or explaining other details.

 

[Neal]

I wonder how many of those senior citizens do like... less than a thousand miles a year. I don't think either of sets of grandparents does more than about 3k in a year. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them didn't even leave the town they live in. I don't think the throttle can stick if you only use ten percent of it's travel, can it?

And even if it did they'd be in second gear anyway so couldn't get up much speed


Sitting in the Toyota dealers today was beyond tedious, ever other person was trying to trade their car in for what they paid for it because it had had a couple of problems in the last couple of years. I felt sorry for the staff there.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I'm not buying this, and seriously how stupid do you have to be (or must you feel) that you don't know how to stop a car with the emergency brake and had to have a cop shout it over a loud speaker.

When we saw it on the local news my mother replied with "Can't they just turn off the ignition?"

I agree with everyone who posted above me; It's getting beyond rediculous.

 

[FoolKiller]

The BS in this newest story just got highlighted.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bs...y-dealer-fact-prius-recall-hasnt-started-yet/

Among the many unanswered questions as to what Prius owner James Sikes actually did or didn’t do to try to bring his runaway car to a stop, one claim of his definitely smells. He says he received a recall letter from Toyota, and when he took it in to the dealer, he was told his car was not on the recall lists. Ouch!

According to a story by Reuters, “Sikes said he had received a recall notice to take his car into a Toyota dealership; but when he did, he was told that his car was not on recall lists, he told reporters.” Only one big little problem with that: the recall for his particular Prius hasn’t actually started yet.

I wonder what other facts are incorrect in his story?

 

[Keef]

I'd like to add...The Prius and all Hybrid Synergy Drive Toyotas have an electronic gearshift. Whether this can be overridden is beyond me.

Interesting.

 

[Omnis]

The BS-o-meter just went to eleven.



Video Link: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/09/video-san-diego-runaway-prius-has-media-buzzing/#continued

I'm not buying this, and seriously how stupid do you have to be (or must you feel) that you don't know how to stop a car with the emergency brake and had to have a cop shout it over a loud speaker.

Also, a Prius owner would never overtake a slow-moving vehicle. Nor reach 90mph. And if he couldn't stop with the regular brakes, he sure as hell wouldn't stop with the e-brake.

I think all of this is just a giant anti-Toyota campaign fueled by Government Motors. Their pedal issues hurt them, so now there are GM and government operatives trying to exacerbate their fall, kicking them while they're down to gain marketshare the only way they can. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's the troof.

 

[Jim Prower]

Interesting.

Well, when you think about it...It's probably logically the case. Tranny's a CVT and - the important part - an electric motor. Gear selection is done with a knob that returns to center in the Prius. You move it into drive like a momentary switch. At least, that's what I remember from my sit at the local auto show last year.

EDIT: Omnis, that had better be sarcasm. I have seen Prius drivers go just as stupidly fast as anyone else...and not because of sticking gas pedals.

 

[niky]

The Prius is push-button... so it's difficult to turn off if you don't know how... and the transmission is actually a shift-by-wire CVT.

True, Prii owners are just like anyone else. They drive above the speed limit, leave the AC on in parking lots and don't really know much about their cars. Unless they're thirty-to-forty something hypermilers, whose heads are eternally buried in the onboard display as they try to eke out 100 mpg from them.

Pensioners aren't hypermilers.

There's a lot of talk about the Congressional circus at thetruthaboutcars.com.

For one, Toyota has contracted Exponent to dissect Professor Gilbert's defeating of Toyota's fault detection system... and... as expected... it's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. His "shorting" of the system requires that exactly three wires are grounded. And that one sensor wire receives a full 5 volts from the power wire, while the second wire receives an exact amount of resistance from the first sensor wire while receiving no crossfire from the power wire. And none of these wires are pinned beside each other on the PCM. Which means that your "moisture" short would have to snake its way across the board, ignore all the other wires, leave no trace of burning, and exert the exact resistances prescribed. And the moisture short has to occur after you start the car, because if it's there before you start the car, it causes a CEL.

In the words of the engineers, it's improbable. But improbable on the scale of your television set rewiring itself to pick up scrambled satellite TV signals spontaneously.

 

[Pupik]

Humph...met a Camry owner (a loyal Toyota owner at that) who told me he's had three instances of not-intended acceleration. The first time, he didn't think anything of it (he was going down hill, and it didn't quite become "unstuck" until he hit the brake pedal unecessarily hard for highway speeds), then it acted normal. The next two time, he states he was going about 30, it accelerated towards the redline in the same gear (it did not upshift). He was able to stop the car with its brakes. Then, no problems for the past 6 months.

He basically told me that he really didn't think twice about the issue, but now that he had a recall letter, and there's been noise about it, he thought twice about it. He told me Toyota "took care of the issue" (the fix) in about one hour, but wasn't terribly interested in hearing his story, which is what really bugged him. Especially since finding out more is what is supposed to make a better product and/or service.

To be honest, that really rubs me the wrong way, too. You're supposed to give a damn in the service drive, even if you don't give a damn. But I can see how a service writer can get tired of hearing the same complains over and over again, but complaints = money.

Again, this is really third-hand information, but a little more eye-opening coming from someone's who's worked for the firm and owns/owned three of their products.

The Prius story sounds fetid, from what I can tell.

 

[niky]

Did his Camry have cruise control?

 

[Joey D]

Runaway Prius driver: Brakes were 'almost burned'
EL CAJON, Calif. – Before he called 911, James Sikes says he reached down with his hand to loosen the "stuck" accelerator on his 2008 Toyota Prius, his other hand on the steering wheel. The pedal didn't move.

"My car can't slow down," he began when a California Highway Patrol dispatcher answered his call.

Sikes, 61, rolled to a stop 23 harrowing minutes later, he and his blue Prius emerging unscathed but Toyota Motor Corp. suffering another big dent. Toyota has watched its reputation for quality crumble with recalls tied to risks that cars can accelerate uncontrollably or can't brake properly.

Todd Neibert, the CHP officer who gave instructions to Sikes over a loudspeaker as they went east on mountainous Interstate 8 in San Diego County Monday afternoon, said he smelled burning brakes when he caught up with the Prius.

The officer said he told Sikes to push the brake pedal to the floor and apply the emergency brakes as the Prius neared 85 mph. The car slowed to about 55 mph, at which time Sikes says he turned off the ignition and the car came to a stop.

"The brakes were definitely down to hardly any material," Neibert told reporters Tuesday. "There was a bunch of brake material on the ground and inside the wheels."

The officer found the floor mat properly placed and the accelerator and brake pedals in correct resting position.

The freeway incident happened at the worst possible time for Toyota — just hours after it invited reporters to hear experts insist that electronic flaws could not cause cars to speed out of control under real driving conditions.

Another driver in suburban New York told police Tuesday that her 2005 Toyota Prius accelerated on its own, then lurched down a driveway, across a road and into a stone wall. The driver, a 56-year-old woman, escaped serious injury. Police said the floor mat did not appear to be a factor; Toyota said it's not yet known whether the company will investigate.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has sent two investigators to examine Sikes' car. Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said the automaker is sending three of its own technicians to investigate.

Another Toyota spokesman, John Hanson, said the company wanted to talk to the driver.

Sikes' car was covered by Toyota's floor mat recall, but the driver said the pedal jammed and was not trapped under the mat.

Sikes, a real estate agent, said he was passing another car when the accelerator stuck and eventually reached 94 mph.

During the two 911 calls, Sikes ignored many of the dispatcher's questions, saying later that he had to put his phone on the seat to keep his hands on the wheel.

Leighann Parks, a 24-year-old dispatcher, repeatedly told him to throw the car into neutral but got no answers.

"He was very emotional, you could tell on the line he was panicked," Parks told reporters outside the CHP's El Cajon office. "I could only imagine being in his shoes and being that stressed."

Neibert told Sikes after the CHP caught up with him to shift to neutral but the driver shook his head no. Sikes told reporters he didn't go into neutral because he worried the car would flip.

The driver rolled down the window and Neibert told him to apply both brakes. Sikes said he lifted his buttocks from the seat to press the floor brake, an account backed by the officer.

The cars maneuvered around two trucks going uphill to a "clear, wide-open road," Neibert said. The officer had only about 15 miles to stop the vehicle before a steep downgrade and was considering spike strips to puncture the tires as a last resort.

In the final minutes of the 911 call, Sikes tells the dispatcher, "My brakes are almost burned out."

After the car stops, Sikes sighs with relief.

Neibert, a 14-year CHP veteran, worked with Officer Mark Saylor, who was killed in August along with his wife, her brother and the couple's daughter after their Lexus' accelerator became trapped by a wrong-size floor mat on a freeway in nearby La Mesa. The loaner car hit a sport utility vehicle and burst into flames.

Toyota has since recalled some 8.5 million vehicles worldwide — more than 6 million in the United States — because of acceleration problems in multiple models and braking issues in the Prius. Regulators have linked 52 deaths to crashes allegedly caused by accelerator problems. Still, there have been more than 60 reports of sudden acceleration in cars that have been fixed under the recall.

So he didn't maintain his car properly and the brakes were shot, that's what that tells me. And I know Prius have regenitive braking so I wonder if that ate them quickly assuming he had good brakes to begin with.

And was afraid the car would flip if it went into neutral?

/facepalm.

 

[Adamgp]

Standing on the brakes while accelerating can chew up brake pads in no time. Especially if they were the cheap factory pads.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Standing on the brakes while accelerating can chew up brake pads in no time. Especially if they were the cheap factory pads.

And especially if they were worn-out, which only the driver can be blamed for. But that's not entirely the point of it. The point of it all is that this driver is so foolish to think that putting your car in neutral can flip your car.

 

[Keef]

With the type of pads on these new cars, just one full throttle panic stop would probably be enough to heat and fade the brakes to uselessness if they're already well worn.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Afraid of flipping the car if put into neutral on a rolling car ??!!!



Let me laugh!!! what an idiot?!


Those people should learn to walk... they are too dangerous in a car!

This is the reason why people should learn to drive manual before getting into an automatic... "learning" how to drive directly an automatic makes you totally unaware of HOW a car functions!


Flip the car in neutral LOL LOL ....


💡
an alternative would be to drive uphill and let gravity slow you down...




EDIT: This one more reason why Manual cars are so much better than Automatics... Too bad for all of those who cant drive it, learn it... you might become a better driver actually... more aware of the situation around you than you would in an automatic. With a Manual / Standard / Stick shift, you are anticipating, and you survive... With an Automatic, you are just reacting, and simply die...



But then again, Nowadays, Buying a Toyota seems such a good investment!

Get it for a Low Low price... then Fake an incident by being Slow and Stupid, Bingo >>> Big Lawsuit with Millions $$$ in compensation ...

The best return you can find out there ...

read this with sacarsms; i do not support such action !

 

[a6m5]

Well, the article does say that the officer smelled burning brakes, plus they discovered brake debris inside the wheels. Of course, Joey could very well be right that it was from the lack of maintenance. Perhaps the dealer service record can at least suggest the condition the pads should've been in.


And I don't know about you guys, but from my experience, my OEM pads on Nissan & Honda seem to last forever. They were both on stickshift, but I ride them hard. Some domestic pads/rotors go after 20 ~ 30k miles, but my pads, even after the near-abuse, got plenty of life left after 40 ~ 50k. Of course, I have no idea what type of pads they use on Toyotas, especially on Prius.

I stress again, and echo some of the comments posted on here. How could you drive a Toyota during this crisis of theirs, and still not know how to emergency stop your vehicle? If I was Toyota, I'd be educating these incapable drivers before issuing any recalls.

I still don't buy the recalls. And I don't mean to insult any of these drivers, especially those who died, or were hurt by the defective whatever it is. Bottom line, it seems most certainly design/manufacturing flaw of some sort. But I don't feel great sharing the road with these people either. Maybe the first few, who were caught off-guard, before the recalls and all the news. But like this James Sikes, even after all the mega news & recalls, has to call 911 to be told how to make his runaway Toyota stop? If he, the driver doesn't care, his wife, his friend, coworker, somebody should have educated him.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think the thing that irked me most about hearing the Toyota guy on the news today was him saying that he was "terrified" of driving his Prius at 90 miles an hour. I mean, Christ, I used to drive my old Fox at 90+ miles an hour with one hand on the wheel, occasionally talking on my cell phone while doing so. Was I terrified? HELL NO!


I'm certain that there is a bit of nonsense going on with the Toyota recall people and so on, but looking at it from the flip side, Toyota has done very little to actually say "Yeah, we know what the problem is," or "STFU you guys are all idiots." If they did the last one, +10000 Kudos to them, and my next car will be a Toyota.

 

[Northstar]

I would love to hear a company say that second line. Than quickly make sure I have no stock in them because they would be out of business in a week.

Really though, lets look at the facts.
1) Toyota has no idea as to what quality cars they are making.
2) Toyota attracts extremely stupid drivers(Ok, mainly the Prius)
3) I am surprised nobody has went on a highspeed chase in a Camry and blamed it on "unintended acceleration". Oh wait..........

 

[Sharky.]

@ YSS: He's 61, of course he's going to be terrified of doing 90mph.

 

[Philly]

You shouldn't be terrified going 90 though. Unless the freeway was really busy and tight, 90 really isn't that fast when the rest of traffic goes 80 frequently. Even that kind of bugs me a bit. I feel like people should be able to handle whatever situations their cars throw at them. I don't want some Toyota ramming into my rear end because the driver was too terrified to think themselves out of the situation. But then again, I also take driving much more seriously than most people on the road.

 

[a6m5]

I beg to differ. If my car did 90, and I didn't know how to stop it *sigh* I would be terrified.

In reply to Justin, Toyota like to take the posture that they know, or at least know what it "isn't". But many, myself included, are not buying their act.

P.S. I heard a Ford driver bragging about how Ford doesn't have any recalls like the Toyotas. I had to laugh. In the 2009 unintended acceleration claim, they came in #2 behind Toyota. He is right though, there is no recall on it that I'm aware of.

 

[Pupik]

Not sure. He he complains about his tires, I'll find out!

 

[Adamgp]

Driving at 90 is one thing, when my car accelerates to 90 on it's own, I would be a little freaked out. Also, some people don't make a lot of sense when they are in high stress situations, and say some weird stuff.

LOL at all the people here that claim they would be Cool Hand Luke if their car unexpectadly took off on them.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'm not sure my car can HIT 90, even if the throttle did stick. If I did, It'd be near impossible to tell, as my speedo stops at 85. ah, I love the '80s.

I'm wondering if this car was doing 90 steadily, because the vehicle was on the brakes.

 

[Joey D]

I think the thing that irked me most about hearing the Toyota guy on the news today was him saying that he was "terrified" of driving his Prius at 90 miles an hour. I mean, Christ, I used to drive my old Fox at 90+ miles an hour with one hand on the wheel, occasionally talking on my cell phone while doing so. Was I terrified? HELL NO!

You're from Michigan, 90+ is nothing.

But ya, 90 isn't that fast, I commute at those speeds on the freeway consistently but so does everyone else. Considering that this took place in California I could see where it would be slightly more terrifying due to traffic and what not.

 

[Philly]

I beg to differ. If my car did 90, and I didn't know how to stop it *sigh* I would be terrified.

But I think that people should know how to stop their car if something like that happens. Call me old fashioned, but the biggest safety factor for me is the driver and knowing what's going on.

 

[Joey D]

More fuel to the fire:

Did Bankrupt Runaway Prius Driver Fake "Unintended Acceleration?"
James Sikes, the San Diego runaway Toyota Prius driver, filed for bankruptcy in 2008 and now has over $700,000 in debt. According to one anonymous tipster, we're also told he hasn't been making payments on his Prius.

We received an email earlier today from an anonymous tipster who claims James (Jim) Sikes, the driver of the runaway Toyota Prius, was in financial trouble and even behind by five months on his payments for the Prius. If that's true, it's potential motivation for wanting to find an out — any out — on paying for the vehicle.

We did some public records searches (thanks to the help of Gawker's John Cook) and found Sikes and his wife Patty found themselves, like many in the California real estate business, on the bursting side of the real estate bubble last year. The two declared bankruptcy in June of 2008 and have a combined liability of over $700,000 dollars in debt.

Among the list of creditors holding secured claims is none other than Toyota Financial Services for a lease on a 2008 Toyota Prius with 7,200 miles on the odometer. Total value of the lease at the time of bankruptcy was $20,494.

So, with almost three-quarter million dollars in debt there's obviously the potential for financial motivation here. But, for his part, when we questioned Mr. Sikes over email earlier today, he denied being behind on his Prius payments.

Mr. Sikes also has not shied away from cameras appearing on CNN and numerous other television programs. In each, he's stated numerous times he's not going to sue and isn't looking for any financial remuneration from Toyota other than a new vehicle.

We've asked the law firm representing him to furnish us with an up-to-date copy of his Toyota statement and we'll post that as soon as we receive it — to either debunk this myth or add fuel to any fire.

We'd also like to point out Toyota itself sent out a tweet yesterday showing how a Prius of that generation can easily be stopped if it's accelerating out of control. But, for the moment, we'll ask you to again listen to the full 911 tape and tell us what you think — does that sound like a man faking or genuinely afraid for his life?

 

[FoolKiller]

Was the car constantly accelerating or did it quickly get to 94mph and sit or slow down some because he was trying to brake? I am a bit confused. If it were a constant acceleration issue then hitting 94mph after 20 minutes is slow, even for a Prius. If it quickly hit 94mph then stopped accelerating whether he was doing anything or not then Toyota should be able to tell specifically where his accelerator was stuck.

I have a million questions about these kinds of things because either their story is odd or the media isn't reporting everything.

One thing I do know, if he thinks neutral will flip a car then we need to add some basic automotive definitions to our driver's ed courses.

 

[homeforsummer]

Is the cause of runaway Prius stories... other runaway Prius stories?

Following weeks of bad news for Toyota involving brake and acceleration problems and millions of recalled vehicles, something kind of strange happened: a second-gen Prius, which had been recalled because there was a potential that the floor mat could cause unintended acceleration, reached 94 miles per hour on a California highway apparently against the driver's wishes, in a case where the floor mat was not to blame. Two days later, a similar thing happened in New York. We aren't saying that these incidents aren't exactly what the drivers involved claim, but the AP is reminding us that there could be something else at work here.

The relentless media coverage of Toyota's problems could be getting into drivers' minds and making "it much more likely that drivers will mistake anything unexpected - or even a misplaced foot - for actual danger." A look at the number of complaints filed this year with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration over "speed control problems" – 272 in ten weeks – compared to 74 in all of 2009 helps make the case. When it comes to problems with brakes, people are even more freaked out: 1,816 have been filed in 2010 compared to 90 in 2009 and about 20 in each of the eight years before that.

We'll let the authorities investigate these latest cases and determine as best they can what happened there, but we also want the madness to calm down. Problems should be fixed, sure, but just because some people have problems doesn't mean everyone does.

Source: Autobloggreen

Important, relevant bit highlighted with bold text.

Confirms my suspicions. People are dumb, pretty much.

 

[a6m5]

I think we all saw that one coming. Big headlines, bunch(not all of them are) of idiots come out.

I was also wondering the same thing FoolKiller posted. I was curious for the detail of the characteristics of this runaway Prius to come out. I did wonder if James Sikes pulled off a stunt to get paid, but if the man says he isn't suing, I would give him the benefit of doubt. At least until the investigations are concluded.

But I think that people should know how to stop their car if something like that happens. Call me old fashioned, but the biggest safety factor for me is the driver and knowing what's going on.

No, I do agree with you 100% there. What I've been saying all along. Not that this will transfer the responsibility from Toyota to the driver or anything, but yes, I also think the driver should have little more knowledge on stopping out of control cars than call 911, or pray to god.