Track Limit Abuse by most Top 10 Drivers

[Woodybobs]

I was saying that there are more than 2 scenarios.

Fwiw, I agree with you in regards to the main discussion here. In an attempt to show ambiguity in someone's post, my own post has been misconstrued.

 

[Spurgy 777]

If you actually consider the "Racetrack" to be the asphalt roadway which the white lines painted to the outside of is the designated track then you are not watching the same video as everyone else.
4 Wheels are off the track at; .05, .18, .21, .48, .50, 1.12 and 1.38 on just the first lap in that video.

Having four wheels off the track does not mean 4 wheels past whatever the game is currently deeming to be the track limits but 4 wheels off the actual designed racing surface would be my interpretation of being of the track.

But of course those wanting to use the exploit and feel justified will not interpret the track as being the same asphalt racing surface.

In my opinion even legally using the curbs at least 2 wheels should be required to remain on the racing surface designated limits being that of the outer painted white lines on the track inside of the curbing.

The track limits should extend out the same for every corner for every circuit within the game so all racers will be in full understanding of the rules of the game. Different rules for different corners lead to some players gaining an advantage over players that do not care to push the excessive limits in their normal gameplay.

I was talking about the bike in the picture, bikes have 2 wheels so it can't have 4 wheels off track. Not sure what made you think I was talking about the video in the OP.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Either you think all three are examples of cheating, or none of them are. They're the only two scenarios that would make your post unambiguous.

it's not about the driver, it's about the game.

No one is cheating by using the track limits the game gave them. It's about the game, not the driver.

It's not about the person it's about the game.

GT5 and GT6 had various physics exploits around camber, ride height, aero etc. and I abused them like ten men because I could. But it never stopped me from posting about it and wanting it changed to be more realistic because it would make the game more realistic, more immersive, more believable and just a better game overall.

 

[Javi Piqueras]

I think it's more a question of being ethical with yourself, knowing that you're doing things right, if you're supposed to be in a racing simulator (being very generous although I like it) when we see races of whatever, there are some rules to meet that we all know. Those of us who play for the love of art, I mean, to racing, we try to get as close as possible to that reality, which for me will be as close as I get to being, and for me, anything that does not look like that They seem like cheating, I feel like thinking like that, but my education prevents me from exploiting this ruling. But as others sleep so calmly I will have to learn to live with it. I respect it but I hope not to find it on the track.

 

[John Crellin]

Whatever PD programs as the track limits are the track limits. Making your own rules is pointless! FFS!

There are instructions in-game that teach use the entire track by using the curbs at the apex and on your way out of a corner. Some corners have a higher potential for going wide than others. so they get bigger curbs.

I for one am glad the limits are "lenient" because then i can be more confident and push harder when wheel to wheel through a corner without the fear of being penalized for being pushed wide. Talking about T1 in a typical race, isnt it common knowledge/practice that you want to be as tight on the inside as possible to avoid being punted? Is that cheating too?

 

[nuu1212]

Only thing that bothers me is getting a big penalty during a race for exceeding limits and nothing during qualifying, I need to know where the penalties are. If you don't penalize it during the quals then don't stick me with 10 seconds during a race.

I'm quite sure the limits are the same for race & quali.
Yesterday I was batteling a guy at Maggiore for the win and on the last lap he took exactly this extreme cut in turn 4. I was 0.8s behind and took it easy because I expected him to loose due to the penalty... well ... now I know better.

 

[kjeldsen]

Oh, here we go. I was wondering how long it would be! I know. I suck, you're awesome. I need to get gud. Lol.
You guys are a joke, TBH. Take the game and your loser cheating selves and shove it. No one likes to race with cheaters, which most on here are obviously. And defend it. Lol. I don't even know why I posted to begin with, because I really don't do the MP thing for these reasons. I drive like a gentleman and I do it fairly. You guys cheat and will go to the ends of the earth to defend it. And yes, if the game allows it, then it sucks.
Now, go post up your times and tell us all how fast you are! Lol What a joke

I'm laughing at you cheater! Bwaaaahahaha
You're the joke, not me.

You guys cheat. You've been caught on video and all you have left is to defend it and say it's ok. That's all you have. Bwaahahahaha

The problem is that you are simply wrong, how you can think that you are the one person in the world to define the absolute only way to race in GT-Sport is extraordinary. Here is an idea, make a new thread, draw the boundaries on every track so that everyone knows where the legal limit is!
Then set up a lobby, you could name it "fantasy tracks or how i learned to keep all wheels on the track as defined by Foof". Then everyone that wants to race on the most made up track in the world can join...

By nature a game like GT-Sport will have every limit explored and used to the fullest by those that wants to be the absolute elite racers, and anything else would wrong. PD setup the limits and they are supposed to be explored.

 

[Javi Piqueras]

not at all are traps, but you describe a specific situation, you do not talk about cutting whenever you can, I feel that I do not think it's honest, but looking in the mirror and dodging I think it's very lawful, the bad thing is that here There isn't a commissioner who values the situation and is the same for everyone.

 

[nuu1212]

Whatever PD programs as the track limits are the track limits. Making your own rules is pointless!

Could not agree more. This discussion was pointless from the very start.

 

[NommyNom]

The game has set track limits, stay within those and you get a valid lap. When I set qualifier times and I feel slow through a turn, i'll test out the limits. two wheels on the grass, no penalty? okay, how about 2 wheels grass, 2 on the curb. still good? 4 wheels on the grass probably won't work, lets try anyway. Nope, didn't work, got a penalty and now i know the limit, on to learning the fastest line in the next corner.

This argument is almost as bad as DS4 users saying wheel users should be grouped separately. This discussion seems like some people want walls put up right where the tarmac meets grass, why don't we have PD edit all the tracks to look like the Tokyo expressway. For those who have cones on, if you don't brake right at the cones, you're cheating. If you're not in cockpit view, you're cheating. If a car crashes and is ghosted, you should get a penalty for going through that car. If you use the HUD at all, you're cheating, its not real enough. cheaters, cheaters everywhere. If you don't do it how I do it, you're cheating.

Edit: removed some unnecessary words.

 

[Corsa]

I must confess I find it odd that people keep saying that this doesn't occur in the real world, and that real world drivers would never do it and that it makes sim racing look bad.

Have any of those saying this actually got a real interest in motorsport?

I have to ask as track limits and pushing them has to be one of the single most regular and repeated topics in just about every series, every year, forever.

Why on earth do people think sausage curbs came into being? What about corner posts? Why have all he circuits on the BTCC calendar had run-off sensors fitted?

This kind of thing would be why:

(I have a LOT more).


Not if a curb is present, curbs under FIA and BRDC regs count as part of the track.

Two wheels on the white line or on the curb and your inside the track limits.

As I said before half of the issue here is that the fantasy tracks in GTS have stupidly wide curbs (Cooper Straight right hand run off at Brands is however wrong, you can't use the run off in reality without penalty).

100% agree @Scaff, however this is a little bit much...

Which definitely needs attention from PD.

 

[zzz_pt]

I think it's more a question of being ethical with yourself, knowing that you're doing things right, if you're supposed to be in a racing simulator (being very generous although I like it) when we see races of whatever, there are some rules to meet that we all know. Those of us who play for the love of art, I mean, to racing, we try to get as close as possible to that reality, which for me will be as close as I get to being, and for me, anything that does not look like that They seem like cheating, I feel like thinking like that, but my education prevents me from exploiting this ruling. But as others sleep so calmly I will have to learn to live with it. I respect it but I hope not to find it on the track.

So you think I'm unethical and uneducated because your arbitrary / imaginary track limits. Nice line of thinking.

 

[RFSnake]

Whatever PD programs as the track limits are the track limits. Making your own rules is pointless! FFS!

First, not everything that has been programmed does instantly mean that its the proper way. Sometimes exploits slip in. Does that mean that any exploit that has been programmed is automaticly the valid way to play a game? Because that logic would normaly cause you to get banned from competetive leagues in nearly every FPS based game.

(and yes, in this case i do agree that there is no excuse to not cut corners since the game sadly doesnt teach you its disallowed in its licences. and in qualification races they could easily have placed some pylons that directly would translate to a time penalty - each pylon being worth a second)

Most games either have a competetive league that prevents this abuse by disqualifications, or they simply fix it. In any professional race, going off the track like that is going to cause penalties. As this game calls itself a simulation, they should act the same way on that. So its something they should fix, these rules arent created randomly by players, they are created because in regular racing its the way they are.

By that same logic it would be perfectly fine to act like a missile at the last corner only to take the #1 spot, since its coded like that! And if you say 'but thats not playing by the sportsmanship rule.', cutting corners also isnt.

 

[Drew71]

100% agree @Scaff, however this is a little bit much...

View attachment 707621
Which definitely needs attention from PD.

I would say that that is a little excessive, but hey if you can do it, do it

You don’t need to cut that much to get a good lap time tho

 

[kjeldsen]

100% agree @Scaff, however this is a little bit much...

View attachment 707621
Which definitely needs attention from PD.

The corner is paved way out where he is driving, it is badly designed, but i learned my new line through it

 

[nuu1212]

The white area seems to qualify as 'curb' in this turn and the hairpin as well.

 

[kjeldsen]

First, not everything that has been programmed does instantly mean that its the proper way. Sometimes exploits slip in. Does that mean that any exploit that has been programmed is automaticly the valid way to play a game? Because that logic would normaly cause you to get banned from competetive leagues in nearly every FPS based game.

(and yes, in this case i do agree that there is no excuse to not cut corners since the game sadly doesnt teach you its disallowed in its licences. and in qualification races they could easily have placed some pylons that directly would translate to a time penalty - each pylon being worth a second)

Most games either have a competetive league that prevents this abuse by disqualifications, or they simply fix it. In any professional race, going off the track like that is going to cause penalties. As this game calls itself a simulation, they should act the same way on that. So its something they should fix, these rules arent created randomly by players, they are created because in regular racing its the way they are.

By that same logic it would be perfectly fine to act like a missile at the last corner only to take the #1 spot, since its coded like that! And if you say 'but thats not playing by the sportsmanship rule.', cutting corners also isnt.

Except there is no abuse, you learn the limits you race them. How you can compare it to ramming another drive on purpose is weird.

 

[Javi Piqueras]

[QUOTE = "zzz_pt, post: 12159875, member: 158182"] Así que piensas que no soy ético ni tengo

So you think I'm unethical and uneducated because your arbitrary / imaginary track limits. Nice line of thinking.

When I say my education, I mean my way of being, but do I have to explain this? how old are you? Seriously, I do not care, I said I respect it, but if I see it I'll look for another room. I'm sorry to have offended you but you have the short wick.

 

[baldgye]

I wonder, can someone point me in the direction of an ‘ethical’ and ‘fair’ real racing series I could follow please?

Seems I’m going to have to give up on following F1, WEC, IMSA, British GT, BTCC, Biancpain GT as they are all ‘unfair’ and ‘unethical’

 

[Scaff]

Never heard of the circuit and googled it, understand why as it is just over a mile circuit used by a British touring car org. You rarely see real GT cars racing that careless without damage of some sort as a result. Many times on the gt cars even a track off through the grass will either damage the front splitter or force a pit stop because of grass blocking the radiator opening causing the car to overheat.

With the speeds gt and prototype cars run the cars will not usually hold up well to repeated abuse of that nature.

Not to mention the price tag to the team when you tear one up!

Quite agree it will vary depending on the car, which is why they put the sausage curb in place, which was the exact point I was making when I posted the pictures up.

100% agree @Scaff, however this is a little bit much...

View attachment 707621
Which definitely needs attention from PD.

I agree, and as I have said a number of times, PDs idea of curbs needs a big rethink.

 

[zzz_pt]

[QUOTE = "zzz_pt, post: 12159875, member: 158182"] Así que piensas que no soy ético ni tengo

When I say my education, I mean my way of being, but do I have to explain this? how old are you? Seriously, I do not care, I said I respect it, but if I see it I'll look for another room. I'm sorry to have offended you but you have the short wick.

Good for you and I guess. Good luck finding lobbies where everyone agrees with you on what is and isn't fair racing.

The only thing I want in the lobbies I'm in is for everyone to have the same rules. And that happens, afaik, in every lobby in GTS. You can question the game's rules, not people's ethics or education. That's complete nonsense.

 

[nuu1212]

I'm desperately looking for a racing series where only PhD holders are allowed to enter. PD, please fix this! I want to have educated conversations on the track!

 

[LordDrift]

That csa tho

 

[Javi Piqueras]

The game has set track limits, stay within those and you get a valid lap. When I set qualifier times and I feel slow through a turn, i'll test out the limits. two wheels on the grass, no penalty? okay, how about 2 wheels grass, 2 on the curb. still good? 4 wheels on the grass probably won't work, lets try anyway. Nope, didn't work, got a penalty and now i know the limit, on to learning the fastest line in the next corner.

This argument is almost as bad as DS4 users saying wheel users should be grouped separately. This discussion seems like some people want walls put up right where the tarmac meets grass, why don't we have PD edit all the tracks to look like the Tokyo expressway. For those who have cones on, if you don't brake right at the cones, you're cheating. If you're not in cockpit view, you're cheating. If a car crashes and is ghosted, you should get a penalty for going through that car. If you use the HUD at all, you're cheating, its not real enough. cheaters, cheaters everywhere. If you don't do it how I do it, you're cheating.

Edit: removed some unnecessary words.

If you prefer we talk about driving in equality. Do you think they are the same conditions? Congratulations, I do not think the same, and bring this to fascism is to mix too many medicines, quiet dude, here there are no fascists, I think :-)

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Talking about T1 in a typical race, isnt it common knowledge/practice that you want to be as tight on the inside as possible to avoid being punted? Is that cheating too?

None of it is cheating because the game allows things with its current limits.

Personally on the inside of a corner I have the opinion that the limits should be that two wheels are required to remain on the asphalt racing surface at all times.

That would limit the amount of cutting corners equally for all corners on all circuits within the game and also force driving the circuit as the circuit was designed originally to be driven.

Everybody has a different opinion on this and what we have in reality is what PD allows within the game and that goes for much more in game than just the corner cutting issue.

 

[Mr P]

Sometimes there's a similar mindset even in F1

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132577/verstappen-idiot-stewards-killing-f1

 

[mirial]

And I meant professional race drivers. Unless you mean Formula 1 drivers, then I don't know any.

Would be good to know their real names, just surprised pros bother when they can get the real thing.

I don’t mean this to be an attack or anything, just a genuine question;
Do you watch actual GT racing?

I think that GT racing is ALOT more ambiguous about limits than single seater racing, which is why I think these threads come up

Probably because most circuits are now geared up to cater for F1 cars so they don't get damaged when a driver gets it wrong and the GT men are having a laugh. No, I don't like these modern circuits at all.

 

[baldgye]

Would be good to know their real names, just surprised pros bother when they can get the real thing.


Probably because most circuits are now geared up to cater for F1 cars so they don't get damaged when a driver gets it wrong and the GT men are having a laugh. No, I don't like these modern circuits at all.

I don’t actually think there are many F1 ‘grade’ tracks in the world, and that most don’t even attempt to be... and a lot of F1 tracks are the way they are for MotoGP rider safety...

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I wonder, can someone point me in the direction of an ‘ethical’ and ‘fair’ real racing series I could follow please?

Seems I’m going to have to give up on following F1, WEC, IMSA, British GT, BTCC, Biancpain GT as they are all ‘unfair’ and ‘unethical’

Difference in the real world series the racing orgs make it very clear to each driver at each circuit where the boundaries are located on questionable corners and what the penalty will be in advance for exceeding those boundaries in the releases to the teams and in the drivers meeting.

In game that same information concerning such rules is not as forthcoming, its not even available as far as I am aware of.

 

[Javi Piqueras]

I wonder, can someone point me in the direction of an ‘ethical’ and ‘fair’ real racing series I could follow please?

Seems I’m going to have to give up on following F1, WEC, IMSA, British GT, BTCC, Biancpain GT as they are all ‘unfair’ and ‘unethical’

I wonder, can someone point me in the direction of an ‘ethical’ and ‘fair’ real racing series I could follow please?

Seems I’m going to have to give up on following F1, WEC, IMSA, British GT, BTCC, Biancpain GT as they are all ‘unfair’ and ‘unethical’

I do not know what intentions you have, I'm just a pretty normal plumber. I do not have an exclusive training either and I only want equal races, you just have to talk about soccer referees. I do not know, as everything evolves, the machine becomes more important than the person for the equality of the car in the upper part of the grid. that as a general rule is related to your budgets, if you talk about team orders it also seems to me that the team is the one who puts the pasta, so it is the boss and it is normal to seek its benefit, but as I do not know what to do You really mean, I'm just telling you that I usually see a lot of races, and I do not see anything in CAREER. another thing will be the tricks that will have among them in the paddock that we all smell, I speak of already on the track.