Transgender Thread.

[Lucas]

There are women and there are men.
Then there's everything science can create.
And, of course, everything one can identify as with.

So whatever the question of this thread is actually asking, my reply is "more than 3".

Personally, I will refer as a "she" to a man if it indeed makes him feel better about himself (as opposed to a guy wanting to be called "mayonnaise" just because he is a smart ass).

EDIT: Just noticed someone posted a mayonnaise pic. My comment refers to a certain someone I encountered on Facebook.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I say, enough with the transphobia. If you don't like your body, it's your right to change it. It's also your right to identify as another sex. It disgusts me that others would impose upon such a basic right.

What if I don't want to change my body, I'm physically a male, but want to identify as a woman? Are you comfortable with a woman that looks like me walking with my male looking female buddy into a public washroom alone with your 8 and 10 year old daughters? Would you be happy with me having a little girl talk in there with her while you waited outside?

 

[Com Fox]

What if I don't want to change my body, I'm physically a male, but want to identify as a woman? Are you comfortable with a woman that looks like me walking with my male looking female buddy into a public washroom alone with your 8 and 10 year old daughters? Would you be happy with me having a little girl talk in there with her while you waited outside?

If this is all about the rest rooms then I would say separate the rest rooms by age, not by gender. Honestly would be better anyway so Kids don't 🤬 up the toilets for the Adults anyway.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If this is all about the rest rooms then I would say separate the rest rooms by age, not by gender. Honestly would be better anyway so Kids don't 🤬 up the toilets for the Adults anyway.

That's not really an answer to my specific question is it? You said I have a right to identify how I please. Given that just about every public or private restroom in the world is either male or female, with a smattering of handicapped and/or baby changing and/or gender neutral restrooms available here or there, would you feel comfortable with me and a buddy walking into a restroom with your 8 and 10 year old daughters? Do you think it's reasonable that a parent might be concerned about this? So you are advocating 2 separate bathrooms, unisex bathrooms for young and old? So a 14 year old boy is ok to go into the washroom with your 7 year old daughter?

 

[Lucas]

What if I don't want to change my body, I'm physically a male, but want to identify as a woman? Are you comfortable with a woman that looks like me walking with my male looking female buddy into a public washroom alone with your 8 and 10 year old daughters? Would you be happy with me having a little girl talk in there with her while you waited outside?

You would be still physically a man, it would not be appropiate for my daughter to talk about it with you.

Not out of fear of rape (after all, I trust you when you say you identify as a woman, and a responsible one at that), but like I said, I don't think it would be appropiate for a person that is physically a man to have a "girl talk" with a girl.

 

[Com Fox]

That's not really an answer to my specific question is it? You said I have a right to identify how I please. Given that just about every public or private restroom in the world is either male or female, with a smattering of handicapped and/or baby changing and/or gender neutral restrooms available here or there, would you feel comfortable with me and a buddy walking into a restroom with your 8 and 10 year old daughters? Do you think it's reasonable that a parent might be concerned about this? So you are advocating 2 separate bathrooms, unisex bathrooms for young and old? So a 14 year old boy is ok to go into the washroom with your 7 year old daughter?

Well if the Kids bathroom allowed Parent Supervision then I would be fine with that.

EDIT: Even still, I think you are forgetting that not every Pedo or Perv is a Heterosexual or even a Man. I could bring my 5 Year Old Son to the Bathroom and he can be sexually assaulted by a 20 Year Old Male Pedo.

 

[Jahgee]

For the whole bathroom debate, why not have a Mens Room and Womens Room like there typically is now, and then an Open Room with no restriction?

 

[Lucas]

For the whole bathroom debate, why not have a Mens Room and Womens Room like there typically is now, and then an Open Room with no restriction?

For the record, I have on idea why we have separate bathrooms other than "men pee with their penis out". Maybe because it is much easier to place urinals instead of toilets and have everyone be separated as a result?

 

[Winters Noble]

This current focus on bathrooms reminds me of South Park's rendition of the topic.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You would be still physically a man, it would not be appropiate for my daughter to talk about it with you.

Not out of fear of rape (after all, I trust you when you say you identify as a woman, and a responsible one at that), but like I said, I don't think it would be appropiate for a person that is physically a man to have a "girl talk" with a girl.

How would you know if I identify as a man or a woman? If I'm allowed to simply choose my gender and use whatever washroom I want, I'm just going to walk in, I'm not going to have a conversation with you as you wait outside for your daughter.

Well if the Kids bathroom allowed Parent Supervision then I would be fine with that.

So take the current two washrooms that most businesses have and convert one to unisex under a certain age with optional parental supervision and the other to unisex above a certain age? Think your grandmother is going to be happy having to share a 2 stall, 1 urinal facility with a couple of 20 and 30 year old dudes?

EDIT: Even still, I think you are forgetting that not every Pedo or Perv is a Heterosexual or even a Man. I could bring my 5 Year Old Son to the Bathroom and he can be sexually assaulted by a 20 Year Old Male Pedo.

I didn't mention anything about sexual orientation but since you brought it up, of course a boy or a girl could be assaulted in some way by a person of the same sex in a public bathroom currently. But surely you realize that it's a huge cultural and personal shift for many people to go from the certainty of having their children, for example, only use public washrooms with people of the same physical sex, to literally allowing anyone of any sex or age to walk into any bathroom at any time?

For the whole bathroom debate, why not have a Mens Room and Womens Room like there typically is now, and then an Open Room with no restriction?

If it's mandated for businesses that have publicly available washrooms, who pays for the renovation and is there any compensation to the business for lost retail/wholesale/production etc. space?

 

[Lucas]

How would you know if I identify as a man or a woman?

I would ask you as I see you enter the bathroom, much like anybody else would.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

What if I don't want to change my body, I'm physically a male, but want to identify as a woman? Are you comfortable with a woman that looks like me walking with my male looking female buddy into a public washroom alone with your 8 and 10 year old daughters? Would you be happy with me having a little girl talk in there with her while you waited outside?

Of course. But let's face it, there are predators of all gender identities; they're not just limited to people who aren't cisgender. Therefore your "bathroom predator" argument is invalid because there's no evidence to support your implied claim that trans people are more likely to be predators.

 

[GranTurismo916]

Although there is a discussion going on, I guess I'll add my (largely irrelevant) view.

There are two biological, birth genders. However you decide to change, or not, after birth is a different thing entirely. After birth, gender really only matters (to me, at least) if you're trying to have a child.

 

[Cowboy]

I think we as a whole today have three genders, which are male, female, and intersex. I have not a problem with what people choose to be, they may or may not regret it afterwards. However, I think that the bathroom situation should be that the people born whichever gender use that bathroom mainly for privacy and safety reasons. No matter what, your still the gender you were born, implants or not.

Just my opinion.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I would ask you as I see you enter the bathroom, much like anybody else would.

And I would tell you to get lost, it's none of your business.

Of course. But let's face it, there are predators of all gender identities; they're not just limited to people who aren't cisgender. Therefore your "bathroom predator" argument is invalid because there's no evidence to support your implied claim that trans people are more likely to be predators.

At no point did I state or imply that trans people are more likely to be predators, so take that off the table shall we. I did say, however, "pedophiles and other predators will take advantage of this situation", IMO.

 

[Ialyrn]

Do you really expect biological women who look like women, sound like women and in every other way a woman to be happy about what they see and hear as a man in the women's toilet? What about their safety? What about their rights?

So what happens when the person in the center walks into a women's bathroom? He is biologically female by the way, does videos for Buzzfeed.

And how about this person, where is her protection and safety when she walks into a mens room? She is biologically male.

 

[Lucas]

And I would tell you to get lost, it's none of your business.

And I would call the police on the basis you are physically a man and potentially someone who will try to rape a woman in the bathroom by claiming to identify himself as a woman.

That aside, your point is moot: children should never be left alone with other adults, especially with people you don't know or don't trust.

 

[Winters Noble]

I think we as a whole today have three genders, which are male, female, and intersex. I have not a problem with what people choose to be, they may or may not regret it afterwards. However, I think that the bathroom situation should be that the people born whichever gender use that bathroom mainly for privacy and safety reasons. No matter what, your still the gender you were born, implants or not.

Just my opinion.

I understander your point.

But at the same time your reason is the same as the opposing end's. The aspect of safety is indeed the most prominent point of the issue. Staying at each others naturally designated bathroom seems to be the most simplistic resolution, however, it is not that easy. In most regions (through my observation), transgendered and transsexual individuals are more in danger of being assaulted or some other form of abuse in restrooms matching their natural sex assignment. But in turn, the issue is a double-edged sword. If trans individuals were allowed to enter bathrooms befitting "their" gender, we know they'll suffer similar consequences. What to do?

 

[Johnnypenso]

And I would call the police on the basis you are physically a man and potentially someone who will try to rape a woman in the bathroom by claiming to identify himself as a woman.

That aside, your point is moot: children should never be left alone with other adults, especially with people you don't know or don't trust.

You can call the cops but if I follow @RESHIRAM5 's logic that I can simply declare myself any gender I want and it become the law in a particular place, they would not even respond to your call. I'd have a legal right to enter any public restroom I choose to.

So you wouldn't let a 10, 12, 14 year old daughter of yours use a public restroom? How does she go to the washroom when she's in the mall with her friends? Does she not attend public events with adults and use the washroom?

 

[Winters Noble]

You can call the cops but if I follow @RESHIRAM5 's logic that I can simply declare myself any gender I want and it become the law in a particular place, they would not even respond to your call. I'd have a legal right to enter any public restroom I choose to.

So you wouldn't let a 10, 12, 14 year old daughter of yours use a public restroom? How does she go to the washroom when she's in the mall with her friends? Does she not attend public events with adults and use the washroom?

I see your point that the venues of pedophiles, rapists, and the like must be limited, but why the worst case scenario focus? True, some will abuse the bathroom system if agreed upon, but that happens already.

 

[Lucas]

You can call the cops but if I follow @RESHIRAM5 's logic that I can simply declare myself any gender I want and it become the law in a particular place, they would not even respond to your call. I'd have a legal right to enter any public restroom I choose to.

I'd like to see how would you justify that to officers, especially after you told me to get lost and that it wasn't my business.

It begs to wonder as well why would you go through the trouble of going into a female restroom when you are physically a man that didn't undergo any surgery, and (I presume) not wearing any feminine clothes, when you will get far more alienated by the women in the bathroom than you would if you went into a male restroom.

Now, I'm not claiming to be someone who knows how people with gender identity issues feel, buuuut I'm guessing it would be pretty traumatic for them, what with a lot of women looking at them wondering "what the hell is this dude doing here?", many even telling you so outright.

So you wouldn't let a 10, 12, 14 year old daughter of yours use a public restroom? How does she go to the washroom when she's in the mall with her friends? Does she not attend public events with adults and use the washroom?

I would not allow my 12-year old daughter to go to the mall alone with her friends or go to public events with adults by herself, no.

Also, and this may come as a surprise to some, being a pedophile is not inherently wrong. Now, a rapist is another thing, and raping 6-year old girls or 40-year olds doesn't make you any different in my book.

I hypothesize that the transgender community wants to force the rest of the world to call them the other gender because they like he ability to correct people, to control their language, to force acceptance, even at a superficial level. If you can get that random person to call you by your chosen gender you have controlled their outward acceptance of you. It's a way of legitimizing your life choices by forcing others to accommodate them.

Wew lad. If someone calls me Matthew, I'll correct them because I feel like I'm Lucas, not Matthew, even if Lucas is nothing but a name somebody gave me arbitrarily.

I hypothesize that some people like to force the transgender community to be called "women" or "men" (depending on the case) because they enjoy mocking them, despite the other party's wishes to be called what they like to be called.

 

[squadops]

I don't understand what the big deal is with all this bathroom stuff, I generally go at home or outside

 

[Daniel]

You can call the cops but if I follow @RESHIRAM5 's logic that I can simply declare myself any gender I want and it become the law in a particular place, they would not even respond to your call. I'd have a legal right to enter any public restroom I choose to.

Your argument's a bit of a strawman. If you spend hours in a public restroom leering at women walking in, your defence of "I have a right to be there!" isn't going to hold. Because you'd still be acting like a creep and assault is still illegal.

Think your grandmother is going to be happy having to share a 2 stall, 1 urinal facility with a couple of 20 and 30 year old dudes?

I'm sure she won't be happy if she sees this man in the women's restroom either.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Also, and this may come as a surprise to some, being a pedophile is not inherently wrong.

I really, really hope there's something lost in translation here, and this isn't literally what you meant.

The focus on public washrooms looks like an exercise in letting the few ruin things for the many, to me. Yep, there could be awful people that would use the situation to their sick advantage. There's also people who would genuinely benefit from a move away from our current system.

I remember having a co-ed bathroom on our floor at university. Nothing else. Our floor included plenty of people of various backgrounds, sexual orientations, and ages. The entire school year, not a single problem was reported about misconduct in that washroom.

 

[Lucas]

I really, really hope there's something lost in translation here, and this isn't literally what you meant.

I literally meant to say what I wrote.

Just like not every person is a rapist, not every pedophile is a rapist. And just like I can't help but feel attracted to women, a pedophile can't help but being attracted to little kids.

But that's for a whole different thread altogether.

 

[Daniel]

I really, really hope there's something lost in translation here, and this isn't literally what you meant.

They were born with an unfortunate attraction but it's doesn't mean they're inherently bad. This article talks about support group for pedophiles who don't wish to act upon their urges.

 

[squadops]

I'm curious about this, it was once discussed in the homosexual thread where some claimed a slippery slope while others claimed there was none.

Is the difference simply defending the right of a minor? If we are born with an urge why are some accepted and others are not, some might consider homosexual urges unfortunate no? We used to give shock treatment to gays, and now we force medicines upon pedophiles.

Simply asking for conversations sake, to me one is between adults and the other is not but for some reason that slope always lingers in my mind.

 

[LeMansAid]

This whole acceptance of multiple as being normal combine with the gender-fluid fad really demonstrate that society is not only going backwards, but also rejecting conventional scientific proof in the process.

Replace "multiple" with diversity, and "gender" with behaviour in that sentence and you've got something that would hopefully not be a fad, anything but going backwards, and not at all about rejecting science.

The key is the problematic preoccupation with defining male and female traits.

And how about this person, where is her protection and safety when she walks into a mens room? She is biologically male.

Protection from what? Seems you're assuming that men are, and will continue to be, a danger to a person that presents that way. That's sad. Calling that a female look is restrictive, and a manufactured social construct. I'd rather expand than constrict what is acceptable as boundaries for each sex, and not resign to, and feed, non-acceptance of unusual appearances.

Home work assignment - everybody go out to a goth club. You'll likely see all sorts of crossed-over and odd creatures using either or both bathrooms and no-one else will give it a second thought. The rest of the world could do with a bit of that kind of nonchalant acceptance.

 

[Danoff]

Wew lad. If someone calls me Matthew, I'll correct them because I feel like I'm Lucas, not Matthew, even if Lucas is nothing but a name somebody gave me arbitrarily.

I hypothesize that some people like to force the transgender community to be called "women" or "men" (depending on the case) because they enjoy mocking them, despite the other party's wishes to be called what they like to be called.

There is a certain level of disrespect in not calling someone what they want to be called. It depends, of course, on how obnoxious the request is. For example, I may have a problem with addressing certain people as "your majesty" or "master" or "father". But if someone wants to be referred to as "she" because that's how they self-identify, I have a hard time seeing how it's not disrespectful to refuse.

However... I also think it can be disrespectful for that person to insist on being called "she". Especially if the reasons reinforce counter-productive stereotypes.

 

[Ialyrn]

Protection from what? Seems you're assuming that men are, and will continue to be, a danger to a person that presents that way. That's sad.

A bit hard to make an assumption on something I have personally experienced, as have a lot of my transgender friends; and the transgender community at large. And it is not just people who happen to be male that potentially pose a risk to us, but also women.



That is just one example of what happens to transgender people.

You seem to be forgetting that I am open on this forum about been transgender, and this sort of rubbish is my life day in and day out.