Transgender Thread.

[SlipZtrEm]

They were born with an unfortunate attraction but it's doesn't mean they're inherently bad. This article talks about support group for pedophiles who don't wish to act upon their urges.

Ah, I remember that one. I was the one misreading there, so apologies @Lucas. 👍

 

[LeMansAid]

A bit hard to make an assumption on something I have personally experienced, as have a lot of my transgender friends; and the transgender community at large. And it is not just people who happen to be male that potentially pose a risk to us, but also women.



That is just one example of what happens to transgender people.

You seem to be forgetting that I am open on this forum about been transgender, and this sort of rubbish is my life day in and day out.

Ah, so they're the people you'd have put together in bathrooms then? The world is sadly still full of horrible miscreants. We're not yet at a point where this cannot be expected. Either way, only the future holds an acceptable level of acceptance.

No, haven't forgotten, and I would respect whichever gender you'd choose to be referred to as. Regardless of that, I would like to see more atypical people challenge gender stereotypes rather than reinforce them.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Your argument's a bit of a strawman. If you spend hours in a public restroom leering at women walking in, your defence of "I have a right to be there!" isn't going to hold. Because you'd still be acting like a creep and assault is still illegal.
I'm sure she won't be happy if she sees this man in the women's restroom either.

She probably won't, but it'll be legal for him to be in there pretty soon.

 

[Daniel]

She probably won't, but it'll be legal for him to be in there pretty soon.

Technically it's already legal for him to be in there. He's biologically female. If the law passes it will be illegal for him to use the men's bathroom.

 

[squadops]

Are we making excuses for criminal behavior now?

 

[Daniel]

Are we making excuses for criminal behavior now?

People protesting the bathroom bill aren't making excuses for criminal behaviour. They just want to take a crap in the bathroom without getting weird looks, bullied or beaten.

The people supporting the bill are saying that it'll reduce the amount of assault in public restrooms, which makes no sense. A sexual predator isn't going to say "aww shucks, I'm not allowed to go into the women's bathroom and assault women and children anymore." Because assaulting people is already illegal.

Passing the bill isn't going to stop sexual predators from being sexual predators. But it is going to make the lives of transgender individuals a lot worse.

 

[Famine]

So what happens when the person in the center walks into a women's bathroom? He is biologically female by the way, does videos for Buzzfeed.

And how about this person, where is her protection and safety when she walks into a mens room? She is biologically male.

I don't really get what either of those things mean but you were asking why people who think they are one gender but look like another can't go to the toilets appropriate to the gender in their head. Perhaps you should read my response again but take the rabid persecution hat off.

When you go into a public toilet no-one knows what you keep in your underwear but you, and unless you habitually go to the toilet by stripping naked and taking a running jump at the cubicle, no-one will know. But if you look like a dude and go into the ladies, there will be screams and shouts of 'pervert' long before you can explain your gender status (if they even believe you).

I don't really know what the obsession about going into public toilets is about nor how it addresses the thread question, but I avoid going into public toilets at all as it reminds me just why democracy doesn't work. I've no idea how so many people haven't grasped the concept of going to the toilet, but they all have a vote each too.

 

[Ialyrn]

I don't really get what either of those things mean but you were asking why people who think they are one gender but look like another can't go to the toilets appropriate to the gender in their head. Perhaps you should read my response again but take the rabid persecution hat off.

People don't want transgender people in the toilet that corresponds with their gender, but their biological sex;
because think of the women and children and their safety from sexual predators (case and point in this thread). Legislation's and laws are being passed that make it illegal for them to use the toilet that corresponds to their gender, so they are then forced, if they need to use a public convenience, to use the toilet that corresponds to their biological sex instead. That is what I am arguing against, and why I posted this:

What about our safety? what about our rights? Are we not entitled to the same human decency, dignity, rights, privileges and protections as every other human being? Or are we to always continue to be treated worse than criminals, sexual predators, and the like for ever? Because that is how we get treated, not by everyone, but by the majority. We are used as the punchlines in jokes, even today. We are denied jobs, housing, even help from the government in some places.

I don't really know what the obsession about going into public toilets is about nor how it addresses the thread question, but I avoid going into public toilets at all as it reminds me just why democracy doesn't work. I've no idea how so many people haven't grasped the concept of going to the toilet, but they all have a vote each too.

Reading the entire thread through from start to finished again, it would appear @niky was the first to expressly bring up bathrooms:

In the end, the answer is the unisex bathroom. Which feels weird the first time you pee at a urinal with giggling girls walking behind you, but which feels perfectly normal the fifth or sixth time you have to go.

@Winters Noble was the first to bring up about the lawmakers as far as I can tell:

I agree, but this is a hot topic in the U.S' South as of now. To some conservative lawmakers one's gender equals one's by biological sex. Sure, this notion is fairly commonplace, but here the reaction is quite visceral. Transgendered and Transsexual individuals are automatically deemed perverts for using restrooms of "their" gender, hence the strong push for bills prohibiting such.

@Daniel responded with:

Because a 16 year old straight teen is going to change his name, request everyone to use 'her/she', change his entire look and wardrobe, go to school presenting himself as a girl, and deal with potential bullying from friends, family, classmates, coworkers and employers... just to look at boobs.

These lawmakeres have no logic at all.

And then @Johnnypenso posted:

Pedophiles are known to go to extreme lengths to spend time alone with little boys and girls. Given that there aren't going to be testing stations outside every bathroom in the state to determine the validity of your gender convictions, surely there should be a reasonable level of concern that it might open the door to abuse by some sick and some not so sick individuals.

So as soon as bathrooms/toilets where mentioned by someone, the discussion then turned into a train wreck; as the direction of the discussion turned to that of "if trans people are allowed in the bathroom of their gender, then sexual predators and pedophiles will take advantage; think of the women and children!".

So I pointed out that:

We always get put into the same box as pedophiles and other sexual predators, and they are always used as the reason to deny us our basic human rights!

Which is what I am directly responding too, and why my last few posts have been in regards to that. So as you can see, I am only addressing what was brought into the discussion by others. I did the back reading and the quoting to fully cover my response, and to hopefully allow yourself (and others) to see where I am coming from with regards to this part of the discussion.

You then came in with:

Do you really expect biological women who look like women, sound like women and in every other way a woman to be happy about what they see and hear as a man in the women's toilet? What about their safety? What about their rights?

My last post with the pictures was in response to both yourself and Johnny really, but I forgot to tag Johnny in it.

Sure the issue with the laws may be in the USA, and only in a couple of states at that. But it shows a much further reaching issue, and one that even we suffer with here in jolly ol' England. Just recently a lesbian teenage girl had the police called on her and was thrown out of a Mcdonalds in Hull, and all because she used the toilet and other customers complained their was a 'male' in the 'female' toilet. She is biologically female and identifies as such. There are people who are trying to have the same oppressive laws put in place here in the UK, and to make it so transgender people have to use the toilet that corresponds to their biological sex. So even we are not immune to it in the UK, and the general population can not always be reasoned with.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/04/1...ected-from-mcdonalds-for-using-womens-toilet/

So even people who are not transgender are effected by all of this, and all because they may not look as feminine or masculine as their biological gender markers dictate. To be honest, that one case proves my point perfectly.

So in these states in the USA that have these laws, it will not be long before some poor trans person who lawfully uses the toilet that fits their biological sex. Is either arrested (best case, and until biological sex can be fully established), beaten, killed, or possibly even raped (yes, trans people do still get raped. Both MTF and FTM).
http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/04/08/black-trans-man-prison-killing-his-rapist

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/trans-refugee-syria-1.3342724

But think of the women and children, obviously.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Just recently a lesbian teenage girl had the police called on her and was thrown out of a Mcdonalds in Hull, and all because she used the toilet and other customers complained their was a 'male' in the 'female' toilet.

I applaud your post overall (very well done) but have to chip in for this bit; I actually know somebody who was involved in this incident - the group of youths (not an individual) were asked by police to leave the site because of an altercation that followed the "male in the toilets" incident. The manager of the McD's clearly acted very badly initially but I had to clear up the later point

Bear in mind that this McD's (not actually run by McDonalds, it's a separate franchise) sees a lot of problems of all kinds. There was even a shooting there recently, 'ow very 'Ull.

 

[Ialyrn]

I applaud your post overall (very well done) but have to chip in for this bit; I actually know somebody who was involved in this incident - the group of youths (not an individual) were asked by police to leave the site because of an altercation that followed the "male in the toilets" incident. The manager of the McD's clearly acted very badly initially but I had to clear up the later point

Bear in mind that this McD's (not actually run by McDonalds, it's a separate franchise) sees a lot of problems of all kinds. There was even a shooting there recently, 'ow very 'Ull.

Fair enough, don't always get the full story in the press. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Famine]

as the direction of the discussion turned to that of "if trans people are allowed in the bathroom of their gender, then sexual predators and pedophiles will take advantage; think of the women and children!".

And yet I didn't say anything about sexual predators and paedophiles, so I don't know why that needs bringing up in response to my questions. To reiterate:

When you go into a public toilet no-one knows what you keep in your underwear but you, and unless you habitually go to the toilet by stripping naked and taking a running jump at the cubicle, no-one will know. But if you look like a dude and go into the ladies, there will be screams and shouts of 'pervert' long before you can explain your gender status (if they even believe you).

I can see no problems with going into the bogs for the kind of person you look like and loads of problems with going to the bogs for the kind of person you feel like but don't look like - regardless of what shape genitals you wazz out of (which no-one sees). I don't know why sex offenders have to be part of the discussion - except that's what might get shouted at you if you look like a guy and go into the ladies.

Your McDonald's story is evidence of exactly that - and the person was physiologically female too. Imagine what would happen if you were physiologically male!

 

[A2K78]

All I can personally say is that scientifically there no such thing as gender-fluid let alone Trangender. Any authentic biologist would come to this conclusion, if not he's rejecting scientific fact/truths.

In the end anyone that calls themselves gender-fluid/neutral and transgender is merely just taking their behavior to next logical step and just acting out a fantasy.

 

[Dan]

Oh boy.

 

[squadops]

Are there more important implications to the debate other than toilets?, such as what you put on your tax return, other government documents(prefered bid treatment comes to mind), or applications for employment?(we hired three ladies I swear we did) etc.

As for the bathroom I figured out my answer, if I owned a public business where it was a good idea to provide toilets I'd have single occupancy rooms, one for male, one for female, and one for whatever. That is until the fire marshal or city zoning commision came storming in

lol

 

[Valkyr1313]

I just spit my drink out. I'm not even sure what just was said. I guess this is my place to say that there is such thing as gender-fluid and transgender. And I can say that for sure as I am trans.

As far as other implications, no not really. On government forms you have to put whatever they have for the moment unfortunately. Once you change your name and gender marker to the correct one, then you can put that on official forms

 

[squadops]

Let me ask you hypothetically @RedDragon, lets say you are a man that relates as being a woman, lets say you own a small business who does work with the state and are entitled to a bid preference based on being a woman. That would be the type of implication I was speaking of, seems a bit more important than where you might want to crap.

Should there be a preference scale? The example I gave were I live would allow you to be up to 5% higher than the lowest bid and still obtain the contract. Forced equality and all that.

 

[Valkyr1313]

You don't have to say anything about being trans. If the legal documents say you are female (because it needs to say it on official documents apparently) then you are entitled to the bid preference because you are female in the eyes of the government.

 

[squadops]

A man that relates as a female is now female in the eyes of the law? The bid processes assumes that you are a woman, relating yourself as whatever.

 

[Daniel]

All I can personally say is that scientifically there no such thing as gender-fluid let alone Trangender. Any authentic biologist would come to this conclusion, if not he's rejecting scientific fact/truths.

In the end anyone that calls themselves gender-fluid/neutral and transgender is merely just taking their behavior to next logical step and just acting out a fantasy.

Guess you didn't see one of my earlier posts? There is scientific evidence suggesting that transgenderism is a thing.

There are neurological differences between the male and female brain. Studies have been done (links to them in my last post) and they suggest that the white matter in the brains of trans men are more similar to cis men than they are to cis women, and vice versa. This does seem to go in line with the idea that transgender individuals feel like they're stuck in the wrong body.

On top of that, you have intersex individuals that have sexual anatomy that isn't wholly male, yet also isn't wholly female.

 

[Famine]

I just spit my drink out. I'm not even sure what just was said. I guess this is my place to say that there is such thing as gender-fluid and transgender.

That depends on which 'gender' you're talking about.

'Transgender' has no physiological or genetic basis. It's a neurological or psychological status. Genetically you are whichever gender your chromosomes say you are (give or take some rare and unusual events). Physiologically you are whichever gender you genitalia say you are, with occasional muddied waters of intersex phenotypes. The feeling or belief that your physiology doesn't match your own gender identity is either psychological or neurochemical.

'Genderfluid' is psychological alone. Your body and your genes don't see-saw from male to female or back on a moment by moment basis, and there is no possible way for your brain chemistry to swing around like that either. One day you may feel more like a woman than a man and the next the opposite may apply, but it's nothing to do with neurotransmitters, hormones, genes or genitals - it's a psychological disorder and should be treated as such.

However this takes us back to the point that @Danoff was making and to which so much offence was taken that his point wasn't seen clearly. If you're 'genderfluid' and by all other markers male, how do you know what feeling female is like? Is what you're feeling actually the feeling of femaleness or is it that you have a set of thoughts and behaviours that you are aware are cultural female (which is itself a fluid construct - see the history of the colour of pink) and think you must be feeling like you're female? What if the female you're feeling like is a trans-female who thinks she is male?

Are you a man who dreams that he is a butterfly, or a butterfly that dreams that it's a man?

If the legal documents say you are female (because it needs to say it on official documents apparently)

There's an important reason to have your genetic/physiological gender on official documents and not any other gender.

Your genes and physiology don't care what you think you are, you are what they say you are. If you are male your body acts differently than if your female, even if you have bits surgically altered or removed.

At its most raw, if you're a guy you can't have cervical or ovarian cancer. If you're a girl you can't have testicular or prostate cancer. Your physiological type is an all-or-nothing risk marker for these disorders. If your gender is reassigned surgically your risk for these cancers diminishes to zero as the bits are cut off, but not for others that are more prevalent in one gender or the other (some not for any hormonal reason). It's not just cancers, but every disorder you can think of. Whether private or public, your healthcare system needs to know what the people in it are actually at risk of, to budget, plan and invest in appropriate therapy.

Would you happily accept 'otherkin' individuals from ditching their human birth certificate in favour of a document from whomever registers foxes or dragons (and getting emergency veterinary treatment instead of hospital)?


In the end, even transgender and genderfluid identify by the two genders, so don't need to be brought into the discussion.

 

[FoRiZon]

Just saying, there is a difference between "Biological Gender" and "Gender Identity".

Former is basically Male and Female (though there are people with genetical disorder but still disputed). Identity is basically want you wish to, mostly concerning your Libido than anything else.

 

[Ialyrn]

There's an important reason to have your genetic/physiological gender on official documents and not any other gender.

Your genes and physiology don't care what you think you are, you are what they say you are. If you are male your body acts differently than if your female, even if you have bits surgically altered or removed.

At its most raw, if you're a guy you can't have cervical or ovarian cancer. If you're a girl you can't have testicular or prostate cancer. Your physiological type is an all-or-nothing risk marker for these disorders. If your gender is reassigned surgically your risk for these cancers diminishes to zero as the bits are cut off, but not for others that are more prevalent in one gender or the other (some not for any hormonal reason). It's not just cancers, but every disorder you can think of. Whether private or public, your healthcare system needs to know what the people in it are actually at risk of, to budget, plan and invest in appropriate therapy.

I agree that medical documentation needs to show that you are physically male in big bold red writing on your medical files. I had to go into hospital a couple of months back as I was coughing up blood, and even though I told the medical staff that I am a male to female transgender person on HRT, they did not take into account the risk factors. They diagnosed me with tonsilitus, gave me a hefty dose of penicillin, and sent me on my way. I went to my GP the next day, as I was not happy with that diagnosis. He wasn't either, and he sent me back to the hospital for a D-dimer and a chest x-ray. The D-Dimer showed a possibility that I had a blood clot somewhere, but the chest x-ray wasn't clear enough to see; so I had to go for a ct scan. They found a blood clot in my left lung that had breached. My GP told me the Doctor at the hospital is very lucky, as I could have died overnight.

Even though I was upfront with the staff at the local hospital, which I deemed to be the best approach to making sure I received the treatment needed and all risk factors taken into account. The blood clot still got missed by them, and in someways it is down to lack of training in how to deal with transgender patients; and the risk factors with HRT.

So I fully agree that on the medical side, the medical staff at hospitals need to know everything. Everyone else, it has nothing to do with them. And thankfully I live in the UK, where not only do the government treat me as female, but I can also have my birth certificate changed.

 

[Famine]

Even though I was upfront with the staff at the local hospital, which I deemed to be the best approach to making sure I received the treatment needed and all risk factors taken into account. The blood clot still got missed by them, and in someways it is down to lack of training in how to deal with transgender patients; and the risk factors with HRT.

But what if you can't be upfront with them in an emergency, due to not being able to communicate - say, if you're unconscious?

They will see someone of one physiological gender and find this confirmed by patient notes because you've had your gender changed to reflect your psychological gender rather than your physiological and genetic gender. They will administer treatment based on that information and it may not be appropriate - and even dangerous.

So I fully agree that on the medical side, the medical staff at hospitals need to know everything. Everyone else, it has nothing to do with them.

Who else could want to know that information for it to make any difference to them?

And thankfully I live in the UK, where not only do the government treat me as female, but I can also have my birth certificate changed.

Changing your gender on your birth certificate is a mere vanity. You may claim it's part of the psychological treatment for gender dysphoria, but you can't retcon your physiological and genetic gender and it brings no benefit for the increased risk to your health it has.

I see my birth certificate so rarely that it could say I'm a fish for all the difference it makes. Why would you care whether or not it fits your belief about your gender psychologically (or neurologically)?

 

[Daniel]

You may claim it's part of the psychological treatment for gender dysphoria, but you can't retcon your physiological and genetic gender and it brings no benefit for the increased risk to your health it has.

Maybe the psychological benefits of being seen socioculturally (and legally, in the case of a driver's licence) as one's preferred gender outweigh the potential health risk?

The government may not care what letter is on a driver's licence, but I'm sure a trans person would. While it may seem like such an insignificant difference, but the incorrect gender (identity) would be a constant reminder of a life they don't want to live.

 

[Ialyrn]

But what if you can't be upfront with them in an emergency, due to not being able to communicate - say, if you're unconscious?

I answered that before you even asked about it.

I agree that medical documentation needs to show that you are physically male in big bold red writing on your medical files.

Here in the UK medical files are shared between our private GP and the hospital, unless you was stupid enough to opt out of it. So the hospital have full access to your medical history, all of it.

Who else could want to know that information for it to make any difference to them?

Refer back to the debate about toilets, since everybody likes to be nosy Nellie's. Why do you think that debate even exists, because of things such as that.

One of the first questions I get asked when someone finds out I am transgender, is if I have a penis. Its the most insulting question to be asked, but it is the one that gets asked with the most frequency. Usually by self identifying hetero males.

For whatever reason people want to know what is in your pants, and I cant for the life of me work out why it is so important to them.

Changing your gender on your birth certificate is a mere vanity.

It is more than just Vanity, to be brutally honest. You are looking at this from the other side of the fence Famine, and sure you may be aware of the medical risks and other factors. But you are not aware of what it is like to be like this on a personal level. To live like this everyday, and to be treated like dirt by people. And the same goes for most of the people commenting in this thread in regards to it.

Ive always said to people that if they cant treat me as a woman and use female pronouns, to just use gender neutral ones. And if you cant even do that, then to just stay away from me and other transgender people. Because that is all we want, is to be left alone to live our lives.

You may claim it's part of the psychological treatment for gender dysphoria,

I never said that, you just did though. You are making an assumption on my behalf on that front. I believe it is just a happy side effect, and one that shows the UK government are trying with regards to the rights and protections of transgender individuals..

but you can't retcon your physiological and genetic gender and it brings no benefit for the increased risk to your health it has.

Again, this is why I stated I fully agree with you, but only with regards to medical professionals having access to that information; i.e Doctors and Nurses at private practices and hospitals. Hospitals already have that information, unless you opted out of the shared information system they have between your GP and themselves. I always carry ID with me also, which has my picture, my name, and my address. As well as my medical alert card for information regarding the blood thinners I am on, which also states that I am transgender in the "other" section; along with which HRT medication I am on.

People are responsible for their own health care, and if some other transgender individual hides the information about their biological sex from Doctors and hospital staff, more fool them.

 

[The87Dodge]

I don't see why a transgender person would need to use the restroom of which sex they were born. If a guy becomes a girl, he should use the girls' restroom, since he looks like one, and if he locks the door of the stall no one will ever know that she was a boy.

 

[Com Fox]

I don't see why a transgender person would need to use the restroom of which sex they were born. If a guy becomes a girl, he should use the girls' restroom, since he looks like one, and if he locks the door of the stall no one will ever know that she was a boy.

Not all transgender males look like typical females, it is especially not a go-to-think on something that is based on opinions like looks. By that logic, Cross-Dressers should be allowed to use the bathroom of the opposite sex since they are meant to look like a typical person of the opposite sex.

 

[Famine]

I answered that before you even asked about it.

Not really - that's not how it works. If you change your birth certificate to a different gender, the top of your medical records (which contain your NHS number, date of birth, name and gender) will also change.

Here in the UK medical files are shared between our private GP and the hospital, unless you was stupid enough to opt out of it. So the hospital have full access to your medical history, all of it.

Here in the UK when you get admitted to A&E, no-one has the time to look up your medical history - what they see is what they know. If you've got boobs and your driving licence says you're a girl called Eileen, you're a girl. The first time anyone will know you were born as a guy is your autopsy.

Refer back to the debate about toilets, since everybody likes to be nosy Nellie's. Why do you think that debate even exists, because of things such as that.

One of the first questions I get asked when someone finds out I am transgender, is if I have a penis. Its the most insulting question to be asked, but it is the one that gets asked with the most frequency. Usually by self identifying hetero males.

For whatever reason people want to know what is in your pants, and I cant for the life of me work out why it is so important to them.

I have never gone into a bathroom and been asked what genitals I have. Nor have I ever gone into a bathroom and felt the need to announce my gender identity. Perhaps these two things are linked.

No-one needs to know. You go into a public toilet to urinate - or, if you're brave, poo. If you go into the toilets appropriate to what you look like on the outside, go into a cubicle and enjoy your evacuation before reclothing and leaving, why would anyone need to question if you're in the right toilets? No-one will have seen your genitals or birth certificate.

Your McDonald's example previously is an example of this. The woman apparently didn't look very womanly and people questioned if she belonged. No-one ever saw her genitalia, just what she looked like.

It is more than just Vanity, to be brutally honest.

Not really.

You've called me Famine several times. Do you think that's what is on my birth certificate, or is that just an identity that I go by?

Your physiological/genetic gender is what ought to be on your birth certificate. You can go by whatever other identity you wish, whether that's a girl, a screen name or a spacegoat. To demand that a document of record reflects your identity and not the facts is vanity. I mean, that's the literal root of the word "vanity".

You are looking at this from the other side of the fence Famine, and sure you may be aware of the medical risks and other factors. But you are not aware of what it is like to be like this on a personal level. To live like this everyday, and to be treated like dirt by people. And the same goes for most of the people commenting in this thread in regards to it.

Has anyone here treated you like dirt because you're transgender? Has anyone here treated any transgender person like dirt because they're transgender?

I don't even know if I know any transgender people. I probably do, but they haven't made that identity known to me. Why would they need to? Why would I care?


Perhaps you could stop acting as if the people on this site have wronged you for your dysphoria and start acting like we're reasonable people having a reasonable discussion, without the overblown emotional investment.

Ive always said to people that if they cant treat me as a woman and use female pronouns, to just use gender neutral ones. And if you cant even do that, then to just stay away from me and other transgender people. Because that is all we want, is to be left alone to live our lives.

If I met you in the street would I think you are a woman or a man? I don't know you, so if I met you in the street I would use the pronouns according to what I think you look like. No-one's going to automatically treat you as the opposite of what you look like without knowing you...

I never said that, you just did though. You are making an assumption on my behalf on that front.

No I'm not, and I never said that you did. I said you may say that.

Honestly, it looks like you're just looking for things to take offence at.

I believe it is just a happy side effect, and one that shows the UK government are trying with regards to the rights and protections of transgender individuals.

A psychological identity on a birth certificate is nothing to do with rights or protection.

Again, this is why I stated I fully agree with you, but only with regards to medical professionals having access to that information; i.e Doctors and Nurses at private practices and hospitals. Hospitals already have that information, unless you opted out of the shared information system they have between your GP and themselves. I always carry ID with me also, which has my picture, my name, and my address. As well as my medical alert card for information regarding the blood thinners I am on, which also states that I am transgender in the "other" section; along with which HRT medication I am on.

People are responsible for their own health care, and if some other transgender individual hides the information about their biological sex from Doctors and hospital staff, more fool them.

But again, it has nothing to do with hiding the information. The information simply isn't there on demand, like we're in some kind of Star Fleet hospital. If you're conscious and seen or admitted for a routine reason, the medical professionals will look your notes up (if you're lucky, more than 2 minutes before they see you). If you're not, they'll go by what they see. If they see a girl who has a document of record that says she's a girl, she'll get girl treatment. If she was born a guy, this might kill her - whereas having the physiological gender on the document will cause no harm whatsoever.

Maybe the psychological benefits of being seen socioculturally (and legally, in the case of a driver's licence) as one's preferred gender outweigh the potential health risk?

The government may not care what letter is on a driver's licence, but I'm sure a trans person would. While it may seem like such an insignificant difference, but the incorrect gender (identity) would be a constant reminder of a life they don't want to live.

I don't see my birth certificate anywhere near often enough to be reminded of anything on it. My dad spent his whole life believing his birthday was March 22nd. His birth certificate said March 21st.

Maybe it's down to what you think other people think of you when they see "M" but you look like a girl, but then we're just back to vanity again.

It's a document of record. What should be on there is what is record - you know, objective facts, not what someone's beliefs are.


And either way, we're still only at 2 genders...

 

[Ialyrn]

@Famine, this is the third time now where I am going to say this. I agree that medical information should very clearly state in big bold red letters what physical sex someone is. That is the ONLY documentation that needs to state what physical sex someone is, and only because of the reason you have stated. I don't know how much clearer I can tell you that I agree with that aspect of your argument.

With regards to emergency treatment, you are seriously wrong if you thing medical personal in the emergency room do not check over your information in some way before treating you. Assuming you have ID with you, unconscious or not, they should have your name, address and date of birth. That information is ascertained, where possible, by the paramedics and first respondents. Which is relayed to the hospital over the radio to get things prepped for your arrival (assuming the emergency warrants it, i.e at risk of dying on route, or there after arriving at hospital). They need to do this, where possible, because people have allergies to things such as penicillin.

UK Paramedic job description:

1, liaising with members of other emergency services, such as the police, fire brigade or coast guard and other ambulance services to ensure the appropriate level of response is provided;

2, working closely with doctors and nurses in hospital accident and emergency departments, briefing them as their patient arrives at hospital;

3, assisting with patient care in hospitals or health care centres;

4, producing thorough case notes and reporting the patient's history, condition and treatment to relevant hospital staff.

https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profiles/paramedic

You've called me Famine several times. Do you think that's what is on my birth certificate, or is that just an identity that I go by?

It is a nickname you go by, either given to you by your peers, or chosen by yourself.

Just as Ialyrn is my nickname, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[ryzno]

This is starting to remind me of the ESPY thread...
I'll just vote and continue reading...
Edit seems only one person agrees with me, moving along...