Travesty called the U.N.

[ledhed]

So...we have a cease fire based on an agreement that provides for a STRONG peace keeping force to be deployed and the disarmament of Hezbollah .

Whats the reality ?

No peace keeping force .
No paticipation by any western powers..unless you count the French commitment for maybe 400 troops .
A commitment by Maylasia and other Muslim nations with NO relations with Israel .
The Lebanese Army being prodded to stand WITH the resistance ( Hezbollah ) .


Someone tell me if this spells the death knell for the UN ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1852843,00.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/20/world/middleeast/20iraq.html

Iran told them to go pound over the NUKES and denied access to the inspectors today .
Iran has been shelling northern Iraq and is massing republican guard units on the border with Iraq .

Iranian Shells Land in Kurdish Villages in Northern Iraq, Killing 2
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By EDWARD WONG and YEREVAN ADHAM
Published: August 20, 2006
SULAIMANIYA, Iraq, Aug. 19 — Artillery shells fired from Iran have landed in remote northern villages of Iraqi Kurdistan in the past four days and have killed at least two civilians and wounded four others, a senior Kurdish official said Saturday. Dozens of families have fled the region.

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The shells have been aimed at an area around Qandil Mountain, known as a base for militant Kurdish opposition groups seeking independence from Turkey and Iran, said the official, Mustafa Sayed Qadir, a senior member of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, which governs the eastern half of Iraqi Kurdistan.

“A lot of homes have been damaged and livestock killed,” he said. A shepherd was wounded Saturday, and two women were among the three people wounded on previous days, he added.

The government of Iraq is aware of the shelling, which has taken place occasionally in recent months, but has not taken an official position, he said.

The president of Iraq, Jalal Talabani, is the head of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. He has at times had a close relationship with Iran, especially when he sought Iranian support in the 1990’s against rival Kurdish leaders and Saddam Hussein. But Mr. Talabani is also aware of the Iranian government’s poor treatment of its Kurdish minority. Iranian officials could not be reached for comment Saturday evening.

Iran and Turkey have sizeable Kurdish populations that live in mountainous areas bordering Iraqi Kurdistan. In recent weeks, the two countries have stepped up warnings to Kurdish militant groups, perhaps fearing that they might have enough of a haven in Iraqi Kurdistan to inject new vigor into independence movements in Iran and Turkey. Iraqi Kurdistan is autonomous from the rest of Iraq and is home to most of this country’s five million Kurds.

It is unclear what weaponry or troops Iran has amassed along its border with Iraqi Kurdistan.

etc.

Sounds like a dangerouse game is being played with the US right now .

And the U. N. being what it is ...

What are we in for ?

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

The Onion had the right idea a while back:

 

[magburner]

Iran has been shelling northern Iraq and is massing republican guard units on the border with Iraq .

Why do you think Iran has been shelling Northern Iraq and is now massing Repbulican Guards on the border with Iraq? Is it because they plan to invade Iraq? Or is it because Iran is concerned by the threat posed by the debacle that is now modern day Iraq? Or maybe, they expect an imminent attack?

Before the US and the UK decided to lambast their way through the Middle East, there was balance. With the removal of Iraq, there is now a vacuum. Iran wasn't the threat it is now before we invaded Iraq, Saddam was there to make sure they weren't. As much of a ass as he was/is, his 'regime' was a stablising force in the region. There is no point standing round scratching your head and wondering what is going on, when it is pretty obvious - Iran wants to be the dominating force in the Middle East - With the removal of Iraq, it is now a very real possibility. Iran's posturing is a direct result of the invasion of Iraq - afterall, America and the UK managed to do in one year, what Iran could never do in eight.

Sounds like a dangerouse game is being played with the US right now .

And the U. N. being what it is ...

What are we in for ?

I don't think that Iran is playing that much of a dangerous game. The security situation in Iraq is horendous, and thats being optimistic. If Israel has the right to defend its borders, then so too has Iran. So far, the shelling has not been aimed directly at US soldiers, but it does look like Iran is stepping on the toes of the coalition forces in Iraq. Then again, if the security situation in Iraq was better, then maybe none of this would be happening. Go figure.

 

[Omnis]

Are the Iraqi sheiks still richer than the government? That's kind of a big problem...

 

[niky]

Much as I disagree with magburner in his assertions in other threads, there really is no difference between what Iran is doing and what US forces are doing cross-border in Pakistan.

It is highly unlikely that Iran is planning any sort of widespread move into Iraq, though it is worrying.

 

[YSSMAN]

UN? Useless? Since when?

I find it strangely funny that France, and quite frankly the rest of Europe, who pushed so hard for a cease-fire in Lebanon won't send in their own toops for peacekeeping unless they know the "terms of engagement." I'm waiting for some idiot to say "Where is the US in all of this?"

 

[ledhed]

No one wants to take the resposibility for disarming hezbollah...they are afraid they may get shot . so they want the " rules of engagement "to free them to react to most likely " any use of force against UNIFIL by any party"

Ironicly something they wouldn't let Israel do .

As far as Iran ....They are trying to develope a nuke ...they told the world on 8 / 22 / 06 to go &^%$ off .

They are attacking the KURDS in Northern Iraq...NOT friggin defending themselves...can't you read ? The US would be justified in shelling them back or Bombing the crap out of them .

A nice little skirmish leading to a war.

magdude take off your stupid blindfold . A war with Iran isn't a good deal for anyone . Another muslim country getting its butt kicked , right now is not a good idea. but neither is allowing Iran to develope a Nuke ...and sanctions will be laughed at by Iran .


so who is in a position to DIPLOMATICLY get them to cease the crap they are pulling now ?

Abbadabadoobajab is on a roll , he's the new iranian Hitler or whatever their last conquerer was called . Cyrus the great with a bad hair cut . he has imperial ambitions for Iran...AND in case you have not noticed...the US is on two of his borders...so the VACUUM crap is bull.

So he has to get rid of the US to succeed ...somehow someway...unless of course we do it to ourselves.

Or the rest of the wesern world outside of Great Britain doesn't locate their nut sacks and figure out what they are for .

 

[Speedy Samurai]

UN? Useless? Since when?

I find it strangely funny that France, and quite frankly the rest of Europe, who pushed so hard for a cease-fire in Lebanon won't send in their own toops for peacekeeping unless they know the "terms of engagement."

Didn't Israel already strike a UN post in Beirut? Why would the UN hastily send in more troops if Israel is still a little trigger happy?

 

[magburner]

As far as Iran ....They are trying to develope a nuke ...they told the world on 8 / 22 / 06 to go &^%$ off .

Are you you going to make that case, or just assert it? There is no proof other than speculation that Iran is trying to produce a nuclear weapon. They have repeatedly stated that their nuclear programme is purely for civillian use, why think otherwise? Apart from the rhetoric that the Iranian president often blast towards Israel (rhetoric that is echoed throughout the arab world I might add), Iran has no history of deceit that I am aware of.

Iran has already said it would like further negotiations to resolve the nuclear dispute, says the BBC's Mike Sergeant at the UN headquarters in New York.

Full article: Iran to respond to nuclear offer

They are attacking the KURDS in Northern Iraq...NOT friggin defending themselves...can't you read ? The US would be justified in shelling them back or Bombing the crap out of them .

They are attacking suspected PKK militants positions. Didn't you read the articles you posted? The fact that Turkey too has an increased presence on their borders indicates that it is not a move entirely initiated by Iran. Anyway, why is it any different to what Israel is doing in Lebanon against Hezbollah?

The biggest problem the west has with fighting terrorist is the only way to win is to destroy them AND those who support them and hide them or in anyway associate with them...they are hiding in a villiage ? Wipe it off the map . A city ? Destroy it and everything in it and take pictures of the bodies and put them in the news.

Doesn't this apply in Iran's case? The PKK are a terrorist organisation.

Maybe this has something to do with the military build up?

Turkey has long urged the United States and Iraq to crack down on the group, designated as terrorists not only by Turkey but also the United States and the European Union as well.

Full article: (Turkish Daily News) Iran says it has arrested PKK members

Kurdish separatist guerrillas have blown up a section of a pipeline in eastern Turkey carrying natural gas from Iran, the Anatolian state news agency quoted local officials as saying on Sunday.
CNN Turk television showed images of the fire caused by the blast, which occurred late on Saturday evening in remote Agri province near the Iranian border, Reuters quoted.
“Members of the PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party) terrorist organization carried out the attack,“ Agri’s provincial governor, Halil Ibrahim Akpinar, told Anatolian.
He said a security operation had been launched after the attack to track down the culprits.
Firemen worked through the night to douse the flames, which CNN Turk said could be seen at the height of the blaze in two neighboring provinces. The television station also said the initial blast could be felt 40 km (25 miles) away.
Ankara blames the PKK for the deaths of more than 30,000 people since the group launched its armed campaign for an independent Kurdish homeland in southeast Turkey in 1984.
Violent clashes between the PKK and Turkish security forces have risen steadily since the rebels called off a unilateral ceasefire in 2004.
Attribution of blame could not be verified but the PKK has targeted gas pipelines in eastern Turkey before.
The United States and the European Union as well as Turkey have listed the PKK as terrorists.

Full article: (Iran Daily) Iran-Turkey Gas Pipeline Attacked

The PKK said the attack was a "warning" to both Turkey and Iran, accusing the two countries of carrying out joint military operations against the group in northern Iraq.

Full article: (People's Daily Online) Gas pipeline in eastern Turkey repaired after sabotage

The cause of the explosion was not immediately known, but Agri's governor, Halil Ibrahim Akpinar, told the Anatolia news agency that sabotage was suspected. Autonomy-seeking Kurdish rebels are active in the region and have attacked pipelines in the past.

Full article: (CNN) Gas pipeline explodes in Turkish rebel region

A nice little skirmish leading to a war.

Read above.

magdude take off your stupid blindfold . A war with Iran isn't a good deal for anyone . Another muslim country getting its butt kicked , right now is not a good idea. but neither is allowing Iran to develope a Nuke ...and sanctions will be laughed at by Iran.

My eyes are wide open, are yours? All you have done is latch onto a single snippet of news (Iran is shelling Northern Iraq) and focussed your response entirely on that without looking into the causes. You assume that Iran is trying to bait America with the attacks, but you have not provided any proof other than your own wild specualtion. Yes Iran is shelling Northern Iraq, but it is not without provocation. I find it hypocrytical that you were denouncing terrorist actions in a previous thread, and seem to gloss over them in this. Whats your stance ledhed? Is it unbiased? Or are you strictly anti-Iran?

 

[ledhed]

My stance is to try to avoid a war with Iran . We had our chance with the previouse president to open a dialouge and BLEW it...so we got a hard liner who WANTS war and to further the Iranian revolution . That is at odds with the US and other world interest in the region . Dont underestimate what I know , or have or can learn about happenings in the region. The same publicity that applies to Hezbollah can be used as a response to Iranian agression against the Kurds .
If you READ what I posted..including the articles and the headlines..you will see that they are slanted towards " Iran shells goat herders in Northern Iran , kills three women " more to " Iran shells suspected terrorist positions " .

I guess recognising such things is not your strongpoint . The fact that the US is making no notice of it..officially ..can be seen as an understanding and permision for Iran and turkey to do what they have to do . At least for now .

But will you be suprised when incidents such as these show up on a declaration of war ? After all no official recognition of these events is on record..that we know of at this time .

As far as Irans duplicity..you must be joking or deliberately ignoring the years of evidence all POSTED on this forum that says Iran is in violation of several UN treatys and is working in ways that can ONLY lead to nuclear capability with their Uranium enrichment program .
If you cant at least admit the information is out there and that the world has due right to be concerned then this conversation is over ..its a waste of time .

I hesitate to count the amount of times famine Myselfe and others have posted the UN and other independent findings on Irans nuclear program...you just seem to ignore it . Like the EU and the UN and the US do not have other things to do besides negotiate with Iran to stop them from developing nukes if they do not have solid evidence that thats where Iran is headed .

With all the pressure and incentives and the guarantee's of a peacefull nuclear program ALREADY on the table and rejected ..why has Iran refused inspections and turned down all offers for a peacefull nuclear program ?

You claim BIAS on my part ? You have to be kidding me .

Kurds flee homes as Iran shells Iraq's northern frontier

Hmmm ...doesn't look anything like " Iran shells terrorist positions in north Iraq "? ...does it ?

Some displaced families have pitched tents in the valleys behind Qandil Mountain, which straddles Iraq's rugged borders with Turkey and Iran. They told the Guardian yesterday that at least six villages had been abandoned and one person had died following a sustained artillery barrage by Iranian forces that appeared designed to flush out guerrillas linked to the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), who have hideouts in Iraq

Substitute Hezbollah for PKK and Israel for Iran

Rostam Judi, a PKK leader, claimed yesterday that no operations against Turkey or Iran were being launched from Iraqi territory. "We have fighters across south-eastern Turkey. Our presence in Iraq is purely for political work."

Sound FAMILIAR ? Substitute Hezbollaah for PKK ....

Iranian Shells Land in Kurdish Villages in Northern Iraq, Killing 2

Damm Iranians killing civilians ! OMG how can the world let this happen !

Substitute Lebanon for Iraq .

“A lot of homes have been damaged and livestock killed,” he said. A shepherd was wounded Saturday, and two women were among the three people wounded on previous days, he added.

I'm sure the livestock and the women are all killers ...and major terrorist....omg how can this go on ..

ETC . etc.

You see the point yet ????


BTW if your eyes are wide open ..how did you miss all the evidence that Iran is trying to develope the uranium needed for a nuclear weapon ? And that they have not only lied about it but done so openly .

Iran denied ordering hezbollah to do anything ..that sound true ?

I can if I want to waste my time find tons of " lies " from Iran concerning their support of terrorist ..what the west or the US consider terrorist..but I care not to waste time on an issue so openly agrreed on by such a vast majority as it becomes " common " knowlage .


Why is the Kurdish rebels position any less legitamate than the Hezbollah or Palestinian one ? After all they want there homeland back AND KURDISTAN DID exist .

I guess they have to start blowing themselves up on buses and planes and hijacking airliners .

 

[FoolKiller]

Anyway, why is it any different to what Israel is doing in Lebanon against Hezbollah?

If you truly believe that then why are you sounding as if you support Iran in this? You were completely against Israel, but now you will support Iran in what you see as the same kind of move?

Either you are arguing for the sake of arguing or you appear to just be in support of anyone who is opposed to American interests.

 

[ledhed]

If you truly believe that then why are you sounding as if you support Iran in this? You were completely against Israel, but now you will support Iran in what you see as the same kind of move?

Either you are arguing for the sake of arguing or you appear to just be in support of anyone who is opposed to American interests.

Kind sir enjoy this nice homemade cookie with sprinkles on it !

 

[///M-Spec]

If you truly believe that then why are you sounding as if you support Iran in this? You were completely against Israel, but now you will support Iran in what you see as the same kind of move?

Either you are arguing for the sake of arguing or you appear to just be in support of anyone who is opposed to American interests.

I am curious to read the response to this as well.


M

 

[KSaiyu]

I think it's because in the other thread ledhead was for the Israeli action, yet he likens that conflict to this one and then says:

They are attacking the KURDS in Northern Iraq...NOT friggin defending themselves...can't you read ? The US would be justified in shelling them back or Bombing the crap out of them

So I assume from this that it's alright for Israel to defend themselves, but when Iran does something similar (which ledhead brought up) it's "NOT friggin defending themselves".

 

[///M-Spec]

I think it's because in the other thread ledhead was for the Israeli action, yet he likens that conflict to this one and then says:

....

So I assume from this that it's alright for Israel to defend themselves, but when Iran does something similar (which ledhead brought up) it's "NOT friggin defending themselves".

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what ledhed is trying to say. Sometimes it takes me a few posts to get the 'gist' of his point.

I DO, however, read very clearly into what magburner has to say. And it sounds pretty 'double-standardish' to me.


M

 

[FoolKiller]

I think it's because in the other thread ledhead was for the Israeli action, yet he likens that conflict to this one and then says:



So I assume from this that it's alright for Israel to defend themselves, but when Iran does something similar (which ledhead brought up) it's "NOT friggin defending themselves".

Despite what ledhead has said, or even how he has worded it, magburner was completely against the Israeli action and now appears to be in support of what he sees as the same type of action being done by Iran. That is what I am curious about.

 

[magburner]

I think it's because in the other thread ledhead was for the Israeli action, yet he likens that conflict to this one and then says:

They are attacking the KURDS in Northern Iraq...NOT friggin defending themselves...can't you read ? The US would be justified in shelling them back or Bombing the crap out of them

So I assume from this that it's alright for Israel to defend themselves, but when Iran does something similar (which ledhead brought up) it's "NOT friggin defending themselves".

Thats is EXACTLY what I was going on about. I was puroposly baiting the discussion, but no one (except KSaiyu) caught on. I may not always agree with the methods used in the 'war on terror', but I agree that the war is justified. Also, I'm no more anti-American than I am pro-American.

Its seems that ledhed et all have two sets of standards - those for allies of America, and those for anyone who are not allies of America. It doesn't matter that the situation was provoked (like the war in Lebanon was), all that matters is that they are killing 'civillians' or attempting to create a nuclear bomb, so they must be the bad guys. I don't like partisanship like that, views expressed have to be consistent, and apply to similar situations. It appears that they obviously don't.

I went to great lengths to defend the innocent civillians in Lebanon, and I was met with was a barrage of comments stating various things. Rough examples include:

'Terrorists hide amonst civillians, so attacking civillian areas is justifed.'

'How do you tell the difference between a dead terrorist and a dead civillian?'

etc, etc. Look back through that thread to see some of the views of those who suddenly think that 'They are attacking the KURDS in Northern Iraq...NOT friggin defending themselves...'.

 

[///M-Spec]

Thats is EXACTLY what I was going on about. I was puroposly baiting the discussion, but no one (except KSaiyu) caught on.

Horsepuckey. I don't believe a word of it.


M

 

[ledhed]

Despite what ledhead has said, or even how he has worded it, magburner was completely against the Israeli action and now appears to be in support of what he sees as the same type of action being done by Iran. That is what I am curious about.

Israel's response to Hezbollah was directly tied to incidents of an Invasion by a STATE SPONSORED group that is PART of the government of Lebanon.

The PPK is not OFFICIALY part of the Iraqi government and supported by a state sworn to the destruction of Iran .

I see a closer link to the Palestinians as the KURDS and Iran in the position of Israel . I am also making the point that Iran is not defending themselves from a Kurdish group bent on the destruction of Iran and I see no evidence of the Kurdish rebels or terrorist " invading " Iran and kidnapping soldiers...an act of war ..or other more direct actions against Iran from the group in Iraq .


Is that a bit clearer ?

I am also pointing out the double standard(s) .
The ability of the press to steer opinion .
The ability of our government to use the attacks on Iraq to justify a response against Iran.
And the fact that with everything else Iran has its hands into ..it seems they are playing a VERY dangerouse game .

lots of points and so little time ...

BTW I think Iran or any other country attacked by terreorist or whatever name you want to use for them has a right to defend itself..

 

[ledhed]

They are attacking the KURDS in Northern Iraq...NOT friggin defending themselves...can't you read ? The US would be justified in shelling them back or Bombing the crap out of them .

A nice little skirmish leading to a war.

magdude take off your stupid blindfold . A war with Iran isn't a good deal for anyone . Another muslim country getting its butt kicked , right now is not a good idea. but neither is allowing Iran to develope a Nuke ...and sanctions will be laughed at by Iran .

Linked to the article .


This little gem needs to be taken in the context of the whole " conversation " or group of posts that go with it .

I dont want to see Iran and the US go to war but the actions of Iran could be a pretext that results in war ...I used the same words Hezbollah used against Israel .




But at any rate ...using just this

They are attacking the KURDS in Northern Iraq...NOT friggin defending themselves...can't you read ?

in the context that magburner did was bullpoop . even if I could have just killed it by doing this ..

They are attacking the KURDS in Northern Iraq...NOT friggin defending themselves...can't you read ?

Show me where Iran was attacked by the PPK ...

I see Turkey was....But I see Iran shelling ?

 

[ledhed]

Horsepuckey. I don't believe a word of it.


M

what do you read into this ?

I don't think that Iran is playing that much of a dangerous game. The security situation in Iraq is horendous, and thats being optimistic. If Israel has the right to defend its borders, then so too has Iran. So far, the shelling has not been aimed directly at US soldiers, but it does look like Iran is stepping on the toes of the coalition forces in Iraq. Then again, if the security situation in Iraq was better, then maybe none of this would be happening. Go figure.

_________________________________

 

[magburner]

Horsepuckey. I don't believe a word of it.


M

I left a couple of clues in my posts, you obviously didn't spot them.

Here's one:

They are attacking the KURDS in Northern Iraq...NOT friggin defending themselves...can't you read ? The US would be justified in shelling them back or Bombing the crap out of them .

They are attacking suspected PKK militants positions. Didn't you read the articles you posted? The fact that Turkey too has an increased presence on their borders indicates that it is not a move entirely initiated by Iran. Anyway, why is it any different to what Israel is doing in Lebanon against Hezbollah?

And the most obvious:

...I find it hypocrytical that you were denouncing terrorist actions in a previous thread, and seem to gloss over them in this.

I was being cynically sarcastic, you obviously couldn't see that. You took my cynacism as being anti-American, and my sarcasm as support for Iran.

I'll admit I'm not a natural debater (and I don't always explain myself clearly enough), but what I believe is the same no matter the situation. If Iran was slaghtering innocent civillians, then I would be kicking up just as much fuss. They might be, but ther is no evidence of that at present (I have looked, check my first post for what I found). So, because there was little or no proof that innocent civillians were being specifically targeted, I decided to go about things a little differently.

The stance taken by many in the Israel and lebanon thread really wound me up. I debated for a good 15 or 16 pages about the fact that innocent civillians were being targeted, and produced much evidence, but the stance stayed the same - the Lebanese government, and ultimately Hezbollah (or vice versa), were to blame for the israeli airstrikes; and any civillian losses were the fault of Hezbollah, and not Israel as they were hiding in urban areas.

So, why does this not apply to Iraqi Kurdistan? Remember, PKK 'terrorists' sabotaged a Turkish-Iranian gas pipeline a few days ago. Why is Iran not justified in shelling suspected 'terrorist' strongholds inside northern Iraq if that is where they believed the terrorists were hiding? Why doesn't Iran have the same rights as Israel in defending its borders? The Kurds in Iraq, Turkey and Iran believe that there should be a homeland that stretches accross all three of those nations. Both Turkey and Iran have had to deal with PKK terrorism and uprisings in the areas surround northern Iraq.

I was baiting plain and simple. The fact that it went unnoticed, goes to show how biased the debates around here are.

 

[magburner]

Show me where Iran was attacked by the PPK ...

I see Turkey was....But I see Iran shelling ?

The PKK said the attack was a "warning" to both Turkey and Iran, accusing the two countries of carrying out joint military operations against the group in northern Iraq.

(People's Daily Online) Gas pipeline in eastern Turkey repaired after sabotage

Is that proof enough?

Also, do you think that there is any truth in the claims by the PKK that Turkey and Iran have been conducting 'joint operations' against them? If the claims are true, don't you think that it could look a little strange for an ally of America to be 'co-operating' so closely with a member of the 'arc of extremism'?

 

[ledhed]

I left a couple of clues in my posts, you obviously didn't spot them.

Here's one:



And the most obvious:



I was being cynically sarcastic, you obviously couldn't see that. You took my cynacism as being anti-American, and my sarcasm as support for Iran.

I'll admit I'm not a natural debater (and I don't always explain myself clearly enough), but what I believe is the same no matter the situation. If Iran was slaghtering innocent civillians, then I would be kicking up just as much fuss. They might be, but ther is no evidence of that at present (I have looked, check my first post for what I found). So, because there was little or no proof that innocent civillians were being specifically targeted, I decided to go about things a little differently.

The stance taken by many in the Israel and lebanon thread really wound me up. I debated for a good 15 or 16 pages about the fact that innocent civillians were being targeted, and produced much evidence, but the stance stayed the same - the Lebanese government, and ultimately Hezbollah (or vice versa), were to blame for the israeli airstrikes; and any civillian losses were the fault of Hezbollah, and not Israel as they were hiding in urban areas.

So, why does this not apply to Iraqi Kurdistan? Remember, PKK 'terrorists' sabotaged a Turkish-Iranian gas pipeline a few days ago. Why is Iran not justified in shelling suspected 'terrorist' strongholds inside northern Iraq if that is where they believed the terrorists were hiding? Why doesn't Iran have the same rights as Israel in defending its borders? The Kurds in Iraq, Turkey and Iran believe that there should be a homeland that stretches accross all three of those nations. Both Turkey and Iran have had to deal with PKK terrorism and uprisings in the areas surround northern Iraq.

I was baiting plain and simple. The fact that it went unnoticed, goes to show how biased the debates around here are.

You call taking a line out of context and quoting it a debate ?

add this to the list

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/22/iran.romania.ap/index.html

Iran 'fires on Romanian oil rig'

Tuesday, August 22, 2006; Posted: 6:41 a.m. EDT (10:41 GMT)

BUCHAREST, Romania (AP) -- A Romanian oil rig off the coast of Iran came under fire from an Iranian warship and was later occupied by Iranian troops, a company spokesman said.

 

[KSaiyu]

But then you can quote this:

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L04814952.htm

QUSAYR, Syria, Aug 4 (Reuters) - Israeli war planes killed at least 33 fruit-pickers, mostly Syrian Kurds, when they attacked a farm just inside Lebanon's border with Syria on Friday, witnesses and officials said.

Syria's official news agency called the strike a "new Israeli massacre". It said 17 of the dead were Syrian workers, including five women, killed while they were picking peaches and loading them onto trucks.

 

[magburner]

I dont want to see Iran and the US go to war but the actions of Iran could be a pretext that results in war ...I used the same words Hezbollah used against Israel .

You will have to add Turkey to that war then, because it has been reported that the Turkish military is planning an assault into Northern Iraq with the Assistance of Iran.

Frustrated by the reluctance of the US and the government in Baghdad to crack down on the PKK bases inside Iraq, Turkish generals have hinted they are considering a large-scale military operation across the border. They are said to be sharing intelligence about Kurdish rebel movements with their Iranian counterparts.

Full article: (The Guardian) Kurds flee homes as Iran shells Iraq's northern frontier.

A Kurdish article about the shelling: Turkish, Iranian armies build up forces along Iraq’s only quiet area

Like I said, Isn't it a little strange for an ally of America to be co-operating so closely with a member of the 'axis of extremism'?

 

[ledhed]

(People's Daily Online) Gas pipeline in eastern Turkey repaired after sabotage

Is that proof enough?

Also, do you think that there is any truth in the claims by the PKK that Turkey and Iran have been conducting 'joint operations' against them? If the claims are true, don't you think that it could look a little strange for an ally of America to be 'co-operating' so closely with a member of the 'arc of extremism'?

how is that proof IRAN was attacked on Iranian soil ???????

TURKEY and Iran are different countries...(you made the comparison to Israel not me) .


Turkey has a right to fight terrorist and so does Iran...but in the whole context of things...IRANS list of things to do to piss off the world is the POINT .

They seem to be going out of the way to start a war or at least they dont seem to think anyone will stop them from doing what they want ..

They want " talks" with the west ...on the same day they attack and take by military force a ROMANIAN oil rig...

They shell the North of Iraq
They foment unrest in the south of Iraq with the shiites.
They support Hezbollah
They continue on the course to produce a NUKE.
They claim the desire to wipe Israel off the map.

should we go on ?

Cyrus the waste has one hell of an agenda going .

 

[ledhed]

But then you can quote this:

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L04814952.htm

?????????????????? Wassup with that ?????

 

[KSaiyu]

?????????????????? Wassup with that ?????

You're quoting something that shows them attacking an oil rig, and believe it to show Iran is different from Israel and can't be trusted (whether that was the main intention for the quote or not), so I'm showing you something in similar context that happened in the Israeli-Lebanon conflict.

 

[ledhed]

You're quoting something that shows them attacking an oil rig, and believe it to show Iran is different from Israel and can't be trusted (whether that was the main intention for the quote or not), so I'm showing you something in similar context that happened in the Israeli-Lebanon conflict.

Iran can be trusted to start a war...and soon . Or so it seems .

magdude is fixated on Israel .

The whole reason for the comparison by me is to show the double standard that Israel is judged by .

I dont see any demonstrations saying " stop the KURD slaughter " !


like I said before..substitute Palestinians or hezbollah for the KURDS and substitute Iran for Israel .

see anything ??

in fact I just watched the nightly news...no mention at all ...

odd is it not ?