Tuner Challenge Championship ~ April McLaren MP4

  • Thread starter Adrenaline
  • 897 comments
  • 75,077 views
+1 on clarification of the gearing... Does our 6th gear need to be set for 200mph or what?

That said, I'd rather it be entirely open; there's only so high of a top speed you can get from a given power level/car; it's not like we can have one person's car topping out at 200mph and another at 220mph in this case (yes, someone *could* set the top speed to 120mph... But why?) anyway so...
 
If the tuners themselves don't have a problem with it then neither can I considering my only concern is a truly level playing field.

As I driver, I know certain tracks better than others. Driving a track each of us excels at would essentially make it individual trials rather than a general competition. And considering Adrennaline is faster then everyone by a full second, why not just check out his tune reviews.

But like I said before I'm having trouble seeing this all the way through so I don't know. If the tuners don't have a problem with it neither do I. We'll know for sure after we try it if it dosen't work out.
 
I do like the idea that the drivers get to pick a track that they already know well and like driving. This will reduce the affect of them learning the track as they go and artificially helping the last tune that they drive. Adrenaline has mentioned some sort of scoring system or ranking per driver, so that should make this comparable across tracks.

As a tuner, the only thing I would like to know is that range of chosen tracks. Are we talking Autum Ring, Fuji, High Speed and LeSarth? I can tune my trans for somewhere in the middle.
 
Adrenaline
Ugh... NOW you guys all want to speak up?

2: I'd like to point out, that the only people concerned about the multi-track system... are drivers. Not tuners. This was an idea presented by a tuner, and from previous tuning competitions from GT5P. I'd also like to ask drivers a question.
Why do you think the results will change based on the track(s) used?
If we went back to last months challenge, and races them all on a different track, do you think Rotary Junkie wouldn't have won? If he didn't win, because another tune was found out to be more consistently fast across a multitude of tracks... doesn't that justify the need to use multiple tracks?
Click to expand...

GT5SER
In the real world as I see it. A tuners ability to tune a car right is by having it run a track that has set lap times in it already. To name a few, tounge battle, Top Gear & for production car, The Green Hell. How is it possible to compare lap times from The Green Hell to Monza? That's all I'm saying and I know you are the one that has to do that part, but I just want to make sure it's fair to all. I really don't care about where I stand in the drivers ranking. I'm in it for the driving and to do my part in helping GTPlanet and the tuners here. This site I have to say, IS HANDS DOWN, THE BEST SITE FOR GRAN TURISMO!

- Jeramy
Click to expand...

drivehard
If the tuners themselves don't have a problem with it then neither can I considering my only concern is a truly level playing field.

As I driver, I know certain tracks better than others. Driving a track each of us excels at would essentially make it individual trials rather than a general competition. And considering Adrennaline is faster then everyone by a full second, why not just check out his tune reviews.

But like I said before I'm having trouble seeing this all the way through so I don't know. If the tuners don't have a problem with it neither do I. We'll know for sure after we try it if it dosen't work out.
Click to expand...

Motor City Hami
I do like the idea that the drivers get to pick a track that they already know well and like driving. This will reduce the affect of them learning the track as they go and artificially helping the last tune that they drive. Adrenaline has mentioned some sort of scoring system or ranking per driver, so that should make this comparable across tracks.

As a tuner, the only thing I would like to know is that range of chosen tracks. Are we talking Autum Ring, Fuji, High Speed and LeSarth? I can tune my trans for somewhere in the middle.
Click to expand...

I look at it a little bit differently. If we were tuning a production road car, in the real world, making sure it's well balanced is a great thing. However when tuning a race car, again in the real world, it's for a specific set of circumstances and requires a different level of tuning to get the most out of the car for those circumstances. Of course there is also something to be said about tuning a car for hot laps, ala what this competition does, and tuning a car for racing as I found out while reviewing some F430 Scuderio tunes.

If you really want to find out who the best tuner is or the best tuning garage is you would really need to have all 3 aspects of this. As is the name of the competition should be Balanced Hot Lap Tune Challenge.

To me there is a certain allure to driving a car that you know is designed to give you every single ounce of grip or speed it has instead of a car that will work well in all situations.

Either way I'm sure if I tuned a car to a specific track that all of these balanced tunes would still probably beat it so it's still an experience I'll be happy to be a part of.
 
Gearing is completely open.
I thought it would be a good idea to set a max speed, so that it leveled the 'top speed' aspect, but individual gear tuning, can still be completely custom. But no feedback for or against, so for now, it's completely open.

The scoring system is simple, and I've wrote it once, then quoted it again.
GT5SER, scroll up and read the quoted part directly under your name in post #508.

Monza vs Nurb will be ranked by points PER driver, not lap times.
But the points rewarded are directly based on the average lap times submitted.

I repeat, absolutely nothing changes for the drivers, other than the ability to choose your own track. You still have to send me your best 3 laps of each tune. Then, I average those 3 laps together to get your 'ranking' of which tune was fastest for you. Based on those rankings (1st through 12th) points are rewarded. Fastest tune gets 12 points, slowest gets 1 point. That is then repeated for every driver, until all drivers have submitted laps, and the Tune with the most points will finish 1st.

As for the range of tracks... again... Any track with the exception of daytona, indy & SS7. La Sarth can be used, but must be used with chicanes. I'm doing some B-Spec stuff, so I can't see any other tracks that would cause problems, but if you feel there are some, feel free to speak up. I don't foresee High Speed Ring causing any issues.
 
O.k. Thanks for the gearing description. All trans settings open, except for top speed. The way I understand what you wrote is that the top speed setting in the set up window is not to exceed 200, which means we will all be setting it at 199 because the setting won't go to 200.

I tested that last night and this keeps the car off the rev limiter at Fuji so the only tracks that should hit the limit are LaSarth full straight, Nurburgring, Daytona oval and Special Stage 7.

As for tracks, my vote for exculeded tracks is different. No Nurburghring, Special Stage 7, Indy oval and Daytona oval. Nurburgring needs a special tune, different from all other tracks, due to the bumps and long straights. Plus, how many drivers can run consistent laps within half a second of each other on that track? I don't know why Daytona or Indy road courses should be excluded?
 
Motor City Hami
O.k. Thanks for the gearing description. All trans settings open, except for top speed. The way I understand what you wrote is that the top speed setting in the set up window is not to exceed 200, which means we will all be setting it at 199 because the setting won't go to 200.

I tested that last night and this keeps the car off the rev limiter at Fuji so the only tracks that should hit the limit are LaSarth full straight, Nurburgring, Daytona oval and Special Stage 7.

As for tracks, my vote for exculeded tracks is different. No Nurburghring, Special Stage 7, Indy oval and Daytona oval. Nurburgring needs a special tune, different from all other tracks, due to the bumps and long straights. Plus, how many drivers can run consistent laps within half a second of each other on that track? I don't know why Daytona or Indy road courses should be excluded?
Click to expand...

Nein, gearing is completely open now. 👍

Also, I agree that the Ring ruins consistency to a degree but I have an idea. Make the "laps" just runs to T3. Start to T3 will test pretty much everything about the car without being long enough to throw results... Buuut it does make checking laps a complete pain. I dunno lol.

Also, it stands to reason that the best car will still win at the Ring... The one that's easiest to get around without destroying the lap is still the one easiest to get around without destroying the lap.
 
Transmission completely open.
All times will be run in an Online Lounge.

Daytona and Indy are excluded, I didn't say the road courses were, therefor they aren't.
We can exclude the ring if you guys would like.

That would make the list of tracks UNABLE to run:
Daytona Oval
Indy Oval
Special Stage Route 7
La Sarthe (Unless you use Chicanes)
Nurburgring (Any variation?)
 
Well, I'm not participting in any way, just an interested observer, but I've been closely following this disscussion, so I thought I'd toss in my two cents.

First off, transmission wise, I completely agree with blueshift. Why waste 2 hours fine tuning the LSD or the suspension when the .5- 1 second you gain from that is lost by your transmission not being suited for a track. No matter how you set up your transmission, if person A sets his up with x gears and x top speed, and person B sets his up with y gearing and y top speed, and the track is suited for y top speed, person B has a major advantage. I think that is making things much too random and it's going to skew the results quite a bit.

A good solution would be having the drivers suck it up and just pick a track. Pick a tough track that really puts the tunes to the test, and if a driver doesn't know it, he will get to know it. My suggestion would be Deep Forest. It doesn't screw with the suspension like the ring or trial mountain, but it still gives some close scrutiny to the tunes.
Any driver who is unfamilier with the track spend maybe an hour with the car stock or any car for that matter just to get used to the track. If you consistently use that track each month, the drivers will be so used to it after a month or two, the problem of inexperience with the track will go away altogether.

That way, it would solve the transmission problem by the tuners knowing exactly the speed they need to tune for, and it would also give the results a concrete feel, like it was a legit event. "Everyone pick your favorite track" seems a little hosh-posh to me.

Anyways, like I said, I really have nothing to do with this, but as a third party, unbiased person that's my opinion.
 
Goshin2568
Well, I'm not participting in any way, just an interested observer, but I've been closely following this disscussion, so I thought I'd toss in my two cents.

First off, transmission wise, I completely agree with blueshift. Why waste 2 hours fine tuning the LSD or the suspension when the .5- 1 second you gain from that is lost by your transmission not being suited for a track. No matter how you set up your transmission, if person A sets his up with x gears and x top speed, and person B sets his up with y gearing and y top speed, and the track is suited for y top speed, person B has a major advantage. I think that is making things much too random and it's going to skew the results quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Ah but that's where you'd be wrong.

If you noticed, I was the main person arguing against his theory of the transmission throwing the rest of the tune out of the window... There is a reason for this. My gearing for this month is a bit "odd" we'll say but will work well anywhere. The car is either always in the powerband or right at the limit of traction where being directly in the powerband would just cause wheelspin. The only thing that changes track-to-track is the number of gears actually being used... There is no purpose to have a 1st gear shorter than I have it set whatsoever, you'll merely get wheelspin (As it is, there is slight slip but not full-blown wheelspin). There will be no difference in acceleration between my setup and one with shorter gearing from the time I hit 5600rpm in 1st to the time the cars stop accelerating, in fact, if anything, my car will accelerate quicker due to a few "special" effects from the ratios I've selected.

If one does not know how to set ratios correctly, I would think that losing "purely because of it" would be reason to step back and improve technique.

In other news, these cars do NOT want to go over 300km/h at max downforce. :lol:
 
I have a question...
Does changing the final gear have any effect on the powerband in relation to the individual gears?

Example:
RJ set up awesome gears for my Viper for 700hp at Trial Mountain.
If I go to... random track A, and need to go faster, will changing the final gear, have any impact on the car, other than top speed?
Example 2:
Same as above, but instead of a different track, it's the same track, but I've been forced to cut my horsepower down to 500 to make limitation. The old gears are too 'fast' for me with this much power, and I'm crawling through each gear. Will upping the final be a bad thing, does it throw things off, or WHAT?!
 
Adrenaline
I have a question...
Does changing the final gear have any effect on the powerband in relation to the individual gears?
Click to expand...

short answer is no, No class of racing (IRL) that I am aware of changes gearboxes/gearbox ratios between racing events. They all use the diff ratio for that.

IE a long track they will use one diff ratio a short track they will use another ratio. perhaps that is something we can look into for next months event. in that tuners set a gearbox and then set 2/3 diff ratios -- short, midrange and long.

I am also somewhat open to the idea of leaving the gearboxes standard and having it be all about the vehicle handling, currently a great suspension tune may be hidden behind a rubbish gearbox and visa-versa.
 
Why tuners arent doing a overall speed setup that would work on most tracks ?

If we go like that with gearbox we can extend it to suspension too. Deep Forest for example need a difference suspension setup than a flat track like high speed ring. Also on aero part, you wont use the same aero on suzuka than on Fuji if you're doing track specific tuning and so on.

Just try to tune the gearbox so it works on most tracks.

Seeing that all tracks with huge straight were taken out it shouldnt be that much of a problem. GT5 is actually not really friendly with tracks specific setup because you can't save any. On FM3 I had different setup for each tracks on my favorite cars.
 
Adrenaline
I have a question...
Does changing the final gear have any effect on the powerband in relation to the individual gears?

Example:
RJ set up awesome gears for my Viper for 700hp at Trial Mountain.
If I go to... random track A, and need to go faster, will changing the final gear, have any impact on the car, other than top speed?
Example 2:
Same as above, but instead of a different track, it's the same track, but I've been forced to cut my horsepower down to 500 to make limitation. The old gears are too 'fast' for me with this much power, and I'm crawling through each gear. Will upping the final be a bad thing, does it throw things off, or WHAT?!
Click to expand...

Final gear changes will keep the gear spacing the same (same RPM drop in each gear) but simply change the maximum speed of each gear.

That said, with the way I usually do gears... You shouldn't ever feel like the car is "crawling" through them when you reduce power... Aside from possibly first which can wind up too long to launch properly with less power but whatever. :P
 
Rotary Junkie
Final gear changes will keep the gear spacing the same (same RPM drop in each gear) but simply change the maximum speed of each gear.

That said, with the way I usually do gears... You shouldn't ever feel like the car is "crawling" through them when you reduce power... Aside from possibly first which can wind up too long to launch properly with less power but whatever. :P
Click to expand...

Well, like I said, at 700hp where they were designed, it pulls hard through sector 1, and gets to max speed on the straight.
But when I drop to car to 500hp, I'm about 2-3000rpm lower through all sections of the track, and I'm definitely not hitting the same top speeds.
Is it better to leave it as is, or would changing the final to help maintain better RPM ranges be beneficial?
 
Entry sent. Can't wait to see how I do as the rooking tuning garage around here.

Adrenaline - Also sent you my Lotus Elise tune for review, as requested. Actually sent you all of my tunes because you said that pdf format is difficult for you.
 
One thing about the ranking... I someone drives 5 seconds faster with tune 1 than tune 2 and an other one half a second faster with tune 2, this means both get 10 points for that. I don't think that is fair? Isn't a possibility to calculate this somehow? Like all times are upscaled to a certain time (rule of three), that we can still compare "laptimes" or something in this direction... do you see what I want to say?
 
Can't wait to try all yours tunes :D

So we still choosing what tracks we wants ?

I'm probably gonna drive in Suzuka if we have the choice.
 

Similar threads

yGodzila
100hp challenge
Replies
2
Views
1K
Andre Nishi
Andre Nishi
llNovall
SNAIL Michelin Pilot Challenge 2024, "PS5 Users Only", GS/GT4 Monthly Series on Friday Nights 9pm EST, **Recruiting New Drivers**
11 12 13
Replies
374
Views
26K
Worst_Driver
Worst_Driver
JLBowler
  • Locked
SNAIL open tuning (within the limits) Cancelled due to lack of interest.
Replies
16
Views
2K
JLBowler
JLBowler
TUSMBOX
Money Talks Time Trial Series | Starting 5/19
Replies
1
Views
824
TUSMBOX
TUSMBOX
llNovall
SNAIL-Porsche GT3 Cup Challenge (using new 992 GT3), Season Champ: Sand_68, Congratulations on the Win and a Great Season!!!
23 24 25
Replies
724
Views
64K
Noob01_lmdead
Noob01_lmdead

Latest Posts

Back