Tuner Challenge Championship ~ April McLaren MP4
- Thread starter Adrenaline
- 897 comments
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- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
It's preferred, but not mandatory. All tuners are being done in random orders by all drivers. Even assuming it was an advantage, to whom benefited wouldn't be consistent, helping negate it in the long run.
- 9,473
- QLD, Down Under
- GTP_Paulie
- Paulie LDP
The testers who haven't broken in the engines first are going to end up testing one car with 10hp or more than the first one they tested. This is why challenges like this hardly work in the first place- I wish I still had the time to run the Garage Showdown like what I did in prologue, it was a fun, meaningless race event rather than in-accurately trying to depict who is the better tuner. I'm not complaining by any means, full steam ahead with the event!
... Sorry
- 757
- Paris
- BlueShift
No he was speaking about me because he knows which tune I've made, since I beleive mine can be seen like "a nose in the middle of a face"... Like very particular err... Things.No, I was looking at one tuning factor in particular and the tunes I "think" I recognise do not have that issue, however they may have other settings I think could slow them down a little but nothing in the magnitude of the issue I was referencing. If you're looking at my tune thinking it's first and last sector will be poor I think you assume too much, my car was great.
The funny thing is I seem to have a Padawan, I'm curious about who it is... I'd say Budious here because of two other evident settings
And I think I guess which one are from Rotary Junkie and VTiRoj : "c'est un secret de Polichinelle !".
Actually, I just don't see what problems he means
So ? What is the special setting you were telling that it creates problems ? I'm curious and quite happily suspicious
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- 1,139
- budious
Mine is blue with a carbon hood.
Oops I told everything
-edit- I'm trying your NSX to compare to mine btw
I used a painted carbon hood, I found the small grain cross thatching of the raw carbon as air passes over it actually has a detrimental effect that in some cases can add up to 1" per lap!
I think mine is probably rather obvious... if you mean DE < DC than I came to that conclusion based on an entirely different theory than your reasoning, our end values just read similarly; read suspension dampening cheatgrid thread and scan to end with combined dampening value theory.
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Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
No, I was looking at one tuning factor in particular and the tunes I "think" I recognise do not have that issue, however they may have other settings I think could slow them down a little but nothing in the magnitude of the issue I was referencing. If you're looking at my tune thinking it's first and last sector will be poor I think you assume too much, my car was great.
Wasn't yours I was referring to; more the two with inverted dampers.
That said, you drive through issues instead of fixing them.
No he was speaking about me because he knows which tune I've made, since I beleive mine can be seen like "a nose in the middle of a face"... Like very particular err... Things.
The funny thing is I seem to have a Padawan, I'm curious about who it is... I'd say Budious here because of two other evident settings
And I think I guess which one are from Rotary Junkie and VTiRoj : "c'est un secret de Polichinelle !".
Actually, I just don't see what problems he means
So ? What is the special setting you were telling that it creates problems ? I'm curious and quite happily suspicious
Interestingly, the similarities were not forced... Roj never saw my tune until he had sent his in.
We tuned them entirely separate from each other; his is possibly a bit more fun but not quite as fast as mine. Open secret indeed. Mine is the one that's upside down and on fire. It looks better like that.
Mine's the one at the bottom of a ravine. GHOST RIDE YA KIA YEAH BOIIIIIIII.
- 43
- minivanman714
Mine couldn't even make it to the ravine. Mine is just enveloped in a cloud of tire smoke. Throttle away, don't worry, it ain't goin' anywhere.
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
I made a judgement call and decided to allow a late entry, because based on the post, he had it ready for the day he thought the actual deadline was. It's the first month, so I'm cutting some slack, and the tune appears to have no similar qualities to any of the tunes that had been posted. The new tune has been emailed to all drivers as well as placed on the spreadsheet at the same link: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...zh0MHZwWnIxOGJHbWpJZHc&hl=en&authkey=CPeEgakK
- 1,139
- budious
I was taking a gamble to try and prove my experimental theory, it worked well enough for me during testing, but then again I was behind schedule and posted it 9 minutes before deadline - which is kind of why despite the confusion I don't like the late entry cause I could have easily used another couple of hours myself... but I'll let it slide being first month.
If you notice the correlation between high spring rates and low spring rates along with anti-roll bar usage; then you'll also notice the correlation between combined damper value required for each. The tunes are consistent in that regard. I'm thinking higher spring rates equal more dampers on rebound to slow them down or you get really nasty kicks out of the car, same does not apply to soft springs. The two tunes using the most combined damper value are the two with high spring rates with strong rear anti-roll bar settings, thus dampers on rear a little softer.
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- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
One more tune being entered, I'm taking the tuner on his word, that this tune was actually sent to psychotik prior to him passing the responsibility, therefore I never received, saw or even knew of it.
Upon realization, the tuner brought it to my attention and I'm attempting to correct the issue the best that I can. If any other tuners sent their tunes prior to February 5th, which is the day I was given control of the account, please inform me as soon as possible, none of this information was passed along to me, and the email account was empty upon my initial log on. Thank you.
To all drivers, there are now a total of 10 tunes for the month of February, which includes 2 late entries that I've added today.
Again the link is here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...zh0MHZwWnIxOGJHbWpJZHc&hl=en&authkey=CPeEgakK
And I also sent out an email notification to all drivers.
Upon realization, the tuner brought it to my attention and I'm attempting to correct the issue the best that I can. If any other tuners sent their tunes prior to February 5th, which is the day I was given control of the account, please inform me as soon as possible, none of this information was passed along to me, and the email account was empty upon my initial log on. Thank you.
To all drivers, there are now a total of 10 tunes for the month of February, which includes 2 late entries that I've added today.
Again the link is here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...zh0MHZwWnIxOGJHbWpJZHc&hl=en&authkey=CPeEgakK
And I also sent out an email notification to all drivers.
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Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
One of the two (that which I've so far tried) was still fairly quick... But a bit over a second slower than my own. I believe it was yours but yeah.
As for damping, I still believe extension to be reversed (lower = slower = more damping) and compression to be correct, as well as them being independent of each other. My drag testing in GT4 confirmed it for that game and I've seen nothing to indicate it having changed.
Edit: quote removed due to edit.
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- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
Edit'd, updated and lady da de da
- 1,139
- budious
Yeah... my theory is there is no polarity which is why both rules seem to fit, I'm really thinking all PD has done is given an upper damper and a lower damper that are bi-directional, thus, how I'm arriving at a combined damper value theory in my approach to tuning now until I supplant it with somewhat of a more accurate theory if I find another later that fits all the displayed behaviors. Combined damper value is just always a more active suspension at a lower sum than a higher sum.
I took my tune and set rebound to 7 and bound to 1 so combined value remained 8, stuck it on the 4wd cape ring time trial and ran 2:56.220". I can visually see the suspension appearing to bottom out at 120mph into the spiral loop but cant notice a speed hit from this setup. Whether or not a bottom out is even implemented is questionable also. I didn't see sparks like I would expect from a too soft spring or lowered ride height so while the wheels look deep into the wells they still seem to have room to run unrestricted. The animation may be different but the drive quality is almost indistinguishable.
As for the difference of mine being a second slower than yours; I wonder if is purely the result of mine having lower LSD acceleration values, higher values tend to give a small boost in lap time. I don't know your driving style but you could run the experiment for me, I just never got around to really giving it a serious attempt with the deadline looming and the stock offered a good feel in corners so I stuck with it.
Best lap time I had with my setup was 1:29.6" something but that was limited test laps on my final configuration nearing deadline, since I use DS3 pad and AT I was thinking wheel users might pull a little better time also.
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- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
Helpful hint to drivers, as I've begun my testing now, the lap times are a pain in the ass.
If you make a mistake and miss one of your top 3 laps, you can exit, turn on the replay and find something to do for 20 minutes. Then the replay 'live timing monitor' will display all 15 laps. It's not optimal, but in case of a missed lap it fits the bill.
I also invite drivers to do a solid 15 laps on the stock settings for fun. I do this first always, to get some seat/track time before testing submitted tunes, as well a feel for how the car handles before tuning so I can get an idea of what was (or wasn't) improved upon.
If you make a mistake and miss one of your top 3 laps, you can exit, turn on the replay and find something to do for 20 minutes. Then the replay 'live timing monitor' will display all 15 laps. It's not optimal, but in case of a missed lap it fits the bill.
I also invite drivers to do a solid 15 laps on the stock settings for fun. I do this first always, to get some seat/track time before testing submitted tunes, as well a feel for how the car handles before tuning so I can get an idea of what was (or wasn't) improved upon.
I'm interested to see the results of this challenge. The tunes seem to vary quite a bit more than I thought they would! I hope that when the results are posted, we can get a tiny bit of feedback or a short description on the feel of the tune from the testers. Just a thought.
- 43
- minivanman714
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
Agreed.
I wouldn't mind real-time updating instead of waiting for everyone to have everything done to know where things stand either...
I've raced with 5 of the tunes so far and as far as lap times go it's a difference of less than 3 seconds between the fastest and the slowest time. It takes a good 5-8 laps to figure out the handling of the car when I change the setups. I still have a bunch to go, but so far one of the tuning garages clearly stands out above to the others. I can't wait to see how the other drivers do.
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
I'll post mini reviews of all 11 (includes stock) tonight when I'm finished. 4 down, 7 to go.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
Hmmm, okay.
My first 15 laps in the stock form of the car, made me question what all the tuners were talking about when they said it handled pretty well on stock settings. This car is an understeer pig for me, but managed a 3 lap average of 1:28.422
Tune #11: I found the car to still have understeer issues. The rear end seems to have an odd feeling where it doesn't settle down, and at times felt like it negatively effected hard corner entries. I felt the front brake balance was too high as I locked them up far too often hindering entry and because of this, made it hard to salvage the center. Car lacked maneuverability in all aspects of the track and had traction issues on exit. I feel this tune completely neglected any advantages that could have been gained from LSD adjustments and might come back to bite them in the end.
Tune #2: I'm still fighting understeer but the overall stability of the car as well as agility is a definite improvement over stock form, most noticeable through the esses.
Tune #10: Extremely consistent; 14 of my 15 laps were within 1.1 seconds of each other. Still coping with understeer.
Tune #3: First break through on understeer. While still present, it's very much repressed allowing for a much smoother ride through and through. Far easier and more enjoyable to drive than stock form. I also feel the transmission gearing was extremely well matched for this track, as it seems tuned to specifically technical parts of the track that could possibly give this tune a nice edge.
Tune #9: I must admit I was skeptic. Obviously the outcast of the group when looking at the spreadsheet, and yet... still preforms. I've become so accustom to understeer, I have no desire to even continue complaining about it. I dislike this car, period. But... this tune did quite well. My 3 best laps are within a tenth of eachother making for a nice average. Under hard braking on entrance, I'm tearing up the outside front tire.
Gunna have dinner and take a break, then I'll get to the next 6.
My first 15 laps in the stock form of the car, made me question what all the tuners were talking about when they said it handled pretty well on stock settings. This car is an understeer pig for me, but managed a 3 lap average of 1:28.422
Tune #11: I found the car to still have understeer issues. The rear end seems to have an odd feeling where it doesn't settle down, and at times felt like it negatively effected hard corner entries. I felt the front brake balance was too high as I locked them up far too often hindering entry and because of this, made it hard to salvage the center. Car lacked maneuverability in all aspects of the track and had traction issues on exit. I feel this tune completely neglected any advantages that could have been gained from LSD adjustments and might come back to bite them in the end.
Tune #2: I'm still fighting understeer but the overall stability of the car as well as agility is a definite improvement over stock form, most noticeable through the esses.
Tune #10: Extremely consistent; 14 of my 15 laps were within 1.1 seconds of each other. Still coping with understeer.
Tune #3: First break through on understeer. While still present, it's very much repressed allowing for a much smoother ride through and through. Far easier and more enjoyable to drive than stock form. I also feel the transmission gearing was extremely well matched for this track, as it seems tuned to specifically technical parts of the track that could possibly give this tune a nice edge.
Tune #9: I must admit I was skeptic. Obviously the outcast of the group when looking at the spreadsheet, and yet... still preforms. I've become so accustom to understeer, I have no desire to even continue complaining about it. I dislike this car, period. But... this tune did quite well. My 3 best laps are within a tenth of eachother making for a nice average. Under hard braking on entrance, I'm tearing up the outside front tire.
Gunna have dinner and take a break, then I'll get to the next 6.
