Tuning Garage Links & FITT Physics Discussions

XDesperado67
...the fact that adding camber to the wheels reduces grip seems to indicate to me that tire flex/suspension wheel angle changes under lateral G load are what's not being modeled correctly.
Click to expand...
That would explain the camber puzzle wouldn't it, and it would be consistent with other aspects of the game that are graphically represented but not "physically" implemented.

What are your observations on squat/dive?
(I haven't tuned anything in GT6 yet because I know the physics model is a dog's breakfast atm).
 
From my testing tonight camber seems to be unchanged. Adding it to the front induced understeer. Adding camber to the rear induced oversteer. Adding camber evenly reduced grip on both sides and added seconds to my lap times.
 
I did a few test runs in a stock Supra RZ today after reading the theory presented by @XDesperado67 yesterday.

Weight transfer seems to have little or no effect on traction.
Only "impressions" so far as I haven't done any modifications to it yet, but the front feels very light under braking and the rear feels very light under load even though visually there's a lot squat/dive.

Lateral transfer is also very prominent, visually, but seems to have little/no effect on grip.
The most telling trait is the non-exsistent variation in grip balance during squat/dive.

It could be conformation bias/placebo as I have yet to test anything against the clock after adjusting.

What are everyone's impressions on ARB/SR/damper adjustment-effects on grip?
 
Quick question about toe. I know toe out = more instability and toe in = more stable.

What I want to know is how do you decide which end to add the toe?
 
donpost
Quick question about toe. I know toe out = more instability and toe in = more stable.

What I want to know is how do you decide which end to add the toe?
Click to expand...

For me it depends on the car and the situation. I usually start with 0/0 then work to get the rear correct first. I think that the rear setting is a bit more powerful. Then I work on the front. Positive toe on front provides turn in, negative front toe provide more mid-corner to exit grip.
 
Motor City Hami
For me it depends on the car and the situation. I usually start with 0/0 then work to get the rear correct first. I think that the rear setting is a bit more powerful. Then I work on the front. Positive toe on front provides turn in, negative front toe provide more mid-corner to exit grip.
Click to expand...

Can you expand on what you mean by "getting the rear correct"? What are you looking for? Do you have any examples?

Sorry for the interrogation!

EDIT: Disregard - you answer that question in your tuning guide. Many thanks!
 
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Vegard said
That would explain the camber puzzle wouldn't it, and it would be consistent with other aspects of the game that are graphically represented but not "physically" implemented.

What are your observations on squat/dive?
(I haven't tuned anything in GT6 yet because I know the physics model is a dog's breakfast atm).
Click to expand...

This reminds me, I tried to test dive in 1.01 or 1.02, and never got around to doing it properly. My basic method was to max ride height, make springs soft, and put on sticky tyres. Then doing an emergency stop would throw a ton of weight forwards, compressing the front suspension (and extending the rear). I honestly can't remember if the front suspension showed a visual camber change (I have a very vague recollection of the rear suspension in an S13 showing positive camber under droop, which makes sense).

In some ways, testing dive/squat for dynamic camber change might be easier than cornering, since when steering it's hard to tell how much camber you've gained from the steering axis inclination.
 
Cars with a live axle should show no camber change with suspension movement - I wonder if that's modelled in GT? Some of the old muscle cars would have a live axle I think.
 
Guys, I just left a "camber thread" so I hope I'm posting in the right place.
I was hoping to get an opinion about the Team Oreca Audi GT3 car.

It is a living nightmare to drive and 1.04 did not change it. I was wondering if either of the last two hot fixes did.
This is my experience from last night at Bathurst:

Has anyone looked at the gallery view of their car and seen what is displayed when absolute max or absolute min camber values are applied?

Curious about that, I would try by my HT receiver is having a firmware update and has knocked out my video for about 30 minutes. I have tested this with ride height and that is working (at least being displayed) properly.

After the last "Hot Fix" (4WD) I was just able to get the Team Oreca Audi R8 GT3 car around Bathurst.
Trust me, I had to work spring rate and dampers until I was actually able to turn the car without the rear end trying to beat the front of the car thru the corner. Camber was set at zero front and back. I also had to add 45kg and slide the ballast all the way to the front of the car. It's still a pig, just not as fat. Although it weighs more.

I've a feeling 48/52 to 49/51 front rear weight distribution would fix this car. However the extra weight would kill the agility and top end speed. The car would weigh in at over 1480kg at least. I think base weight is 1320kg.
Base weight distro is 45/55 front to back.

Everything about this car feels great until you turn the steering wheel. I've read some opinions that the car is just coded wrong (programmatically) from PD and no amount of tuning will ever fix it. Concur?????
 
Blood*Specter
Guys, I just left a "camber thread" so I hope I'm posting in the right place.
I was hoping to get an opinion about the Team Oreca Audi GT3 car.

It is a living nightmare to drive and 1.04 did not change it. I was wondering if either of the last two hot fixes did.
This is my experience from last night at Bathurst:

Has anyone looked at the gallery view of their car and seen what is displayed when absolute max or absolute min camber values are applied?

Curious about that, I would try by my HT receiver is having a firmware update and has knocked out my video for about 30 minutes. I have tested this with ride height and that is working (at least being displayed) properly.

After the last "Hot Fix" (4WD) I was just able to get the Team Oreca Audi R8 GT3 car around Bathurst.
Trust me, I had to work spring rate and dampers until I was actually able to turn the car without the rear end trying to beat the front of the car thru the corner. Camber was set at zero front and back. I also had to add 45kg and slide the ballast all the way to the front of the car. It's still a pig, just not as fat. Although it weighs more.

I've a feeling 48/52 to 49/51 front rear weight distribution would fix this car. However the extra weight would kill the agility and top end speed. The car would weigh in at over 1480kg at least. I think base weight is 1320kg.
Base weight distro is 45/55 front to back.

Everything about this car feels great until you turn the steering wheel. I've read some opinions that the car is just coded wrong (programmatically) from PD and no amount of tuning will ever fix it. Concur?????
Click to expand...
I agree, the all the audi GT3 are broken or like you say coded wrong (programmatically) from PD
Anyway, the result is very very poor and anoying.
I´ve tried again this morning with no success even with extreme settings. I´ll wait pD do something for it to drive it again. This is bad because GT3 cars are really just a few. To make an online championship for example...........
They need to fix it and add the 458 GT3 and McLaren MP4 GT3 too.
><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°
 
praiano63
I agree, the all the audi GT3 are broken or like you say coded wrong (programmatically) from PD
Anyway, the result is very very poor and anoying.
I´ve tried again this morning with no success even with extreme settings. I´ll wait pD do something for it to drive it again. This is bad because GT3 cars are really just a few. To make an online championship for example...........
They need to fix it and add the 458 GT3 and McLaren MP4 GT3 too.
><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°
Click to expand...

Thank you praiano, if you will wait on PD, I know I'll never fix this thing. I hope PD realize what they have done.:confused:
 
Also you must add 80kg to get 48/52 balance for the Audi. Finally you can see the effect of camber graphically when you view in garage or gallery. The result of adding or subtracting toe is not discernable to my eyes. I put the car at maximum ride height so I can see the whole tire.

It could be just for this car because the background of tires is so dark. Better eyes should try this and maybe with a different car. I will post if I find anything different. If I do it may prove that this car is indeed coded wrong.
 
XDesperado67
If a car is sitting flat on a level surface then 0 camber produces the largest contact patch. As long as you have no tire flex or the suspension doesn't deform under cornering load changing relative wheel angle then 0 camber would still create the largest contact patch
Click to expand...
Well, even then that would be true basically only for beam axles. Remember there's still body roll. To remain at 0 absolute camber during cornering, camber angle relative to the body needs to match the body roll angle.
 
Whats the best way to tell if a car is bottoming out? Sometimes they seems to be bottoming out but don't shoot sparks or anything. I wish the replay camera could get closer to the ground.
 
If your car is possibly bottoming out only in one or two non critical spots in a lap then I wouldn't worry about it, otherwise you will have to make a judgement on a low ride height based on how it feels or lap times or watching replays.
 
Many thanks!:cheers:

If you ever feel like stopping by and trying out any of our tunes, we would be honoured to hear any feedback that you may have, good or bad!
I have read your tuning guide and have tried to get my head around as much of the masses of information as my poor little brain can handle. It has been a huge help to me personally in trying to get to grips with tuning my own cars as well as helping to sort out problems some of my friends have been having with theirs.

Thanks for all of your hard work, you are a great asset to the community and I wish you all the best!


Edited, hate leaving spelling mistakes...sorry.
 
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PsuPepperoni
Whats the best way to tell if a car is bottoming out? Sometimes they seems to be bottoming out but don't shoot sparks or anything. I wish the replay camera could get closer to the ground.
Click to expand...

I was tuning a vehicle the other day and set the ride height as low as it would go without causing sparks. Then I slammed the ride height down to minimum, which caused sparks to fly out the back the whole way around the lap. The slammed version was a few tenths quicker on a 1 minute lap - maybe the sparks are just a graphical thing and don't actually affect the handling?
 
hi guys just to let you know i will be testing the effects of a wing, my findings will be published on a separate thread and will link it here. :)
 
PsuPepperoni
Do you guys think GT6 simulates tires hitting the fender well (causing a braking effect)?
Click to expand...
I don't know about a braking effect, but you can get wheel rub causing the tires to heat up faster and stay hot.
 
I did some testing on traction that may as well go in here. I wanted to investigate how we can use suspension settings to manipulate rearward weight transfer to increase traction for RWD cars. Testing was performed in a straight line to isolate from influences of lateral weight transfers and the diff (we already understand both of those). I haven't written exactly how I tested to avoid a wall 'o' text but I can type it up if requested.

Adjustment: Raise overall ride height.
Reason: Will raise the centre of gravity which will in turn result in more rearward weight transfer under acceleration and therefore hopefully more traction.
Result: No perceivable improvement to traction.

Adjustment: Increase spring stiffness
Reason: Won't change the amount of rearward weight transfer but will make it transfer fractionally faster which might help.
Result: No perceivable improvement to traction.

Adjustment: Increase damper stiffness (bump and rebound)
Reason: Won't change the amount of rearward weight transfer but will make it transfer fractionally faster which might help.
Result: No perceivable improvement to traction.

Adjustment: Shift weight distribution towards rear
Reason: More weight on the rear wheels = more traction
Result: Big improvement in available traction.

I hope that's useful/interesting to someone!
 

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