UEFA Champions League Thread [Archive]

[Mike Rotch]

I myself am a United fan,

I stopped reading there

I dont think you can call the kettle black on reffing decisions - especially after Fergus having a dummy spit in the last two games because his team got some kharma back

I do agree that Wenger decision to focus on youth has failed entirely and he either needs new signings in the summer, big signings, or its going to be another year of the same - two weeks in March where 3 trophy quests end.

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

I stopped reading there

Haha, yeah. It seems like a lot of people do sadly... I think you'll find I'm far from the "glory hunting know-nothing American ManU fan who gets all his soccer information from Fifa games" stereotype though. I like to see United win, but when we do poorly I don't mince words or try to deflect the blame. And, I have no real hatred for the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal, or really anyone for that matter. Just the scousers and Man City.
I have really come to like the way that Arsenal plays in the last couple years. I think it's a shame that they've gone without reward for such beautiful play for so long, but I know that there's problems that need fixing that have caused that drought.
P.S.- I also love Spurs. They're entertaining to watch nearly every game.

I don't think you can call the kettle black on reffing decisions - especially after Fergus having a dummy spit in the last two games because his team got some kharma back

Yes. SAF has played more than his fair share of the blame game. I respect Fergie as a tactician and a manager, but his treatment of the officials and mannerism in the press is less than extraordinary. I think all managers are guilty of it to some extent, and I think it's part of the job to have difficulty admitting your team played badly.
I myself, as a fan, try to never drop the blame in the officials hands. I know there are bad calls, but there's bad calls in every game, and they go for us as much as against us. With (most) Arsenal fans, you'd think that the entire FA and UEFA officiating bodies are out to get them. Every game, they say the calls lost the game for them. Bad foul this, missed offsides that. Never hear about the blatant handballs or offsides goals they get away with though...

I do agree that Wenger decision to focus on youth has failed entirely and he either needs new signings in the summer, big signings, or its going to be another year of the same - two weeks in March where 3 trophy quests end.

I really don't know that it has. I think that they need a better, more experienced goal keeper, and I think that a leader in the midfield would be a great benefit, but I wouldn't say it's been a total failure. Sure, they haven't won trophies, but they HAVE played at a consistently high level, and found some success in international competitions. A lack of trophies hardly constitutes a failure, just that something isn't quite ticking right. I think that with a little refinement, the Guns will have their day on top again. And hey, it's not like they don't still have a chance for silverware this year too!

 

[Touring Mars]

v. P's sending off was very harsh, and it ruined the game (well, for Arsenal anyway). That said, v. P's first booking was well deserved, and he stupidly put himself in the situation where he risked a red card for a soft offense, so he can't have too many complaints.

 

[Sureboss]

Arsenal were lucky to not get hammered by Barcelona over the two legs. Yes, the RVP sending off was a farce, but then Barca had two obvious penalties turned down over the two legs, with that a complete and utter domination last night by Barca.

Bendtner could have made himself a hero, but didn't.

 

[sems4arsenal]

For once, I actually agree with the gunner fans whining. I have a hard time sympathizing with the gunners and their cries of bad officiating, because it's more than a bit like the boy who cried wolf, but this time I think there's at least a little bit to it. The ref was more than a little harsh with the red card and the penalty. We leave a lot up to these men, and sometimes they let us down. It's been happening more lately it seems, and especially the 2010 World Cup should be the wakeup call football needs to get with them times and embrace some technology.

All in all, Arsenal should feel a little hard done by, but I don't think they should have realistically expected to see off arguably the best club in the world in their own house with only a 1 goal cushion.

It's time for the Guns to stop making excuses and start making changes.

Well, if Van Persie wasn't sent off, Arsenal could actually stand a chance ... at taking a shot at Barcelona's goal
About Van Persie's red card, the second yellow was a weird decision, but referee is entitled to book someone for playing after whistle. I know, 95,000 fans made a roar and he might not hear it, but it was loud throughout whole game and other players had no problems.
Funny how Arsenal fans are silent after their team gets away with disallowed correct goal and handballs in penalty area and after their player, who was nearly invisible in the first half gets sent off correctly they shout that the ref robbed them of going through.
Shakhtar - Roma: Shakhtar win easily, although Roma started well and if Borriello scored from the penalty and Mexes wasn't sent off, they might have stood a chance.

Of course. It's not an excuse when it's the same for you as it is for everyone else. How are you supposed to:

If you get bad call that go in your favor as well? It's time for the Guns and their fans to stop hiding behind their tired old excuses and own up to the problems objective observers can see a mile away.

Their excuses are like a broken record:
We have a young team- Well, by age yes, but most of that team has as much or more experience as any other team these days. There's players who have been playing first team football for 3+ years, long enough that they're hardly young by experience.

We get bad calls- So does everyone else. Yes, there have been times when some harsh calls have gone against you. There have also been times when you've gotten so fortuitous calls for you, or not given against you. It happens to everyone. Look at Wolves this weekend. Very harsh officiating against them, and there are other examples too. It's part of the game, so either learn to live with it, or stop playing.

We have problems with injury- Yes, you do. Your reserves aren't what most would call deep. Buy more players who fit with the style that you wish to play. When half your bench is incapable of playing on a level you're happy with, it's nobody's problem but your own.

I myself am a United fan, but I don't hate Arsenal. The only club I actually truly dislike is Liverpool these days. I actually think Arsenal are playing the best looking football in England right now, in a lot of ways. They need a better goalkeeper, and they need someone with real leadership to marshal their attack. They also need to get rid of players who are incapable of keeping up the high quality and tempo that they like to play at, and look for replacements who can. With their aversion to spending money, this is obviously problematic. Let's hope someone with some sense is in charge of the summer transfers over at the Emirates.

v. P's sending off was very harsh, and it ruined the game (well, for Arsenal anyway). That said, v. P's first booking was well deserved, and he stupidly put himself in the situation where he risked a red card for a soft offense, so he can't have too many complaints.

Arsenal were lucky to not get hammered by Barcelona over the two legs. Yes, the RVP sending off was a farce, but then Barca had two obvious penalties turned down over the two legs, with that a complete and utter domination last night by Barca.

Bendtner could have made himself a hero, but didn't.

Facts: 1)If You think RVP's sending off is following the rules then Abidal Chocking him and Buskuets Pushing him in the face are both Event which both Players should have been sent off for.
2)Cesc clearly wasn't Fit ,neither was RVP ,why Has Arshavin Not Started As Diaby and Rosicky simply aren't good enough so I blame Wenger for The team selection
3)I am not upset that we crashed out ,I am by the manner though I wanted us to have a Full team and Barca as well Playing the Football most fans expected We were clearly robbed There is no other way and sadly that only leaves us with 2 Trophies so I am indeed 🤬 off

 

[spiker]

Arsenal got completely dominated in that game. Blaming the refs for that loss is ignoring the obvious.

Here's the two most important stats that tell you everything you need to know about this match:

1. Total Arsenal shots: 0
2. Arsenal Possesion (%): 32%

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsle...match=2003764/postmatch/statistics/index.html

I haven't been a soccer fan for long because this is the type of idiocy that turns me off about the game. Arsenal got crushed by Barcelona. Even if you eliminate all penalties from that game, Barcelona still would have kicked the crap out of them. It was pure domination from the outset.

 

[DQuaN]

That is true, Barca were by far the better team, but we did have a chance. Even with 10 men Bendtner had a golden opportunity to score a goal which would have sent us through. Had that been RVP there is a good chance he would have scored. In the second half we started a lot better and drew the game level (granted by an own goal but we were aplying more pressure). No one is saying we defintiely would have won but we would have had a much better chance. Remeber, we didn't need to win the game. A draw would have been enough, or, with two away goals, we could have lost and still gone through.

 

[spiker]

That is true, Barca were by far the better team, but we did have a chance. Even with 10 men Bendtner had a golden opportunity to score a goal which would have sent us through. Had that been RVP there is a good chance he would have scored. In the second half we started a lot better and drew the game level (granted by an own goal but we were aplying more pressure). No one is saying we defintiely would have won but we would have had a much better chance. Remeber, we didn't need to win the game. A draw would have been enough, or, with two away goals, we could have lost and still gone through.

I'm confused. Do you play for Arsenal?

 

[DQuaN]

Yes, my name is Francesc Fàbregas i Soler.

 

[Sureboss]

I'm confused. Do you play for Arsenal?

You really are new to soccer, aren't you?

Very common to use we when referring to football teams and most sports teams.

 

[spiker]

You really are new to soccer, aren't you?

Very common to use we when referring to football teams and most sports teams.

Americans do it with American football and baseball, etc, too. Look no further than this forum for examples. It's a plague on sports fans all over the world, I tell ya!

 

[DQuaN]

Sureboss, please use quotation marks when using the term "soccer"!!!!

Ta.

 

[AlexGTV]

Barcelona
Attempts at goal - 17
Possession - 69%
Saves - 0
Passes
Total - 724 (84%)
Per minute - 14.7

Arsenal
Attempts at goal - 0
Possession - 31%
Saves - 7
Passes
Total - 199 (59%)
Per minute - 9

 

[spiker]

Sureboss, please use quotation marks when using the term "soccer"!!!!

Ta.

Touche.

 

[ASH32]

Americans do it with American football and baseball, etc, too. Look no further than this forum for examples. It's a plague on sports fans all over the world, I tell ya!

Why, fans are very much a part of the team, infact without the fans no team would survive, so it's fair to say they are the most important part.

 

[spiker]

Why, fans are very much a part of the team, infact without the fans no team would survive, so it's fair to say they are the most important part.

It's not that I'm discrediting the fans. At face value, the sentences typically read as if the person speaking had actually done something on the field, when in fact they did nothing at all. It's confusing language.

My larger complaint that I didn't mention is that using "we" and "you" in a debate tends to degrade into a personalized, hard-headed "me" vs "you" argument and not an intelligent discussion about the topic on hand.

 

[daan]

My larger complaint that I didn't mention is that using "we" and "you" in a debate tends to degrade into a personalized, hard-headed "me" vs "you" argument and not an intelligent discussion about the topic on hand.

It's a discussion on football. Intelligence doesn't come into it.

 

[spiker]

It's a discussion on football. Intelligence doesn't come into it.

I know you're being facetious but there is some good debate that shouldn't get lost in a "me" vs "you" bone-headed argument.

 

[bradford]

Yes, the RVP sending off was a farce

Is it you, Harry Redknapp?

We were clearly robbed

Oh come on. Can you see any difference between periods of game before and after sending RVP?

 

[Goudvis]

It's hard to deny Barcelona were the deserved winner. They were unlucky to lose in London and they could/should have won by a lot more goals yesterday.

But it could have been differently. Had Van Persie kept his nerve, Arsenal could possibly have held their lead. Yes, it was harsh. But I expect professional football players to know about the risks of kicking the ball when the whistle has gone. As Touring Mars says: he shouldn't put himself in the situation where he could get send of. Unfortunately, football players don't tend to take responsibility for their actions. Knowing Barcelona played without Pique and Puyol, there were options for Arsenal...

It's a shame a game between the two most beautiful teams in the world has to be reduced to a referee's decision (which imo. wasn't even that crucial).

 

[sems4arsenal]

No one is doubting That Barca were dominant .I/We/He/SHE were saying that with 11 men we were 1-1 regardless of how Dominant they were so they needed to score 2 g more goals .Oh and can't believe how awesome GTplanet is ,Discussing Football and to be honest all of you guys are a Joy to debate with .Anyway What's done is done (I am still having a terrible weeks so I might have been venting my frustration )Lets see what Tottenham do 👍

 

[Aldo]

Yid Army! Yid Army!

 

[sems4arsenal]

Great Win for Tottenham (they will certainly rub it in most gooners in North London )Not the best Performance but they Dug in and got the job done ,Unlike some People

 

[Goudvis]

The level of football was rather poor. Quite a contrast compared to yesterday.

Milan were a bit better, but didn't get the luck they needed.

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

It's hard to deny Barcelona were the deserved winner. They were unlucky to lose in London and they could/should have won by a lot more goals yesterday.

...

As Touring Mars says: he shouldn't put himself in the situation where he could get send of. Unfortunately, football players don't tend to take responsibility for their actions.

...

It's a shame a game between the two most beautiful teams in the world has to be reduced to a referee's decision (which imo. wasn't even that crucial).

+1
There were some points to debate, but at the end of the day, it's on the players to keep the ref out of the game.

No one is doubting That Barca were dominant .I/We/He/SHE were saying that with 11 men we were 1-1 regardless of how Dominant they were so they needed to score 2 g more goals .Oh and can't believe how awesome GTplanet is ,Discussing Football and to be honest all of you guys are a Joy to debate with .Anyway What's done is done (I am still having a terrible weeks so I might have been venting my frustration )Lets see what Tottenham do 👍

Another +1 haha. The debate on this site is fantastic! And it (generally) stays civil from what I've seen, which is better than any dedicated football forum manages!
Anyways, what's past is past. If the Guns keep focus, they've still got a chance for the league title and the FA cup (though we'll see about that one on Saturday...)
Good luck Arsenal, you'll need it!

Great Win for Tottenham (they will certainly rub it in most gooners in North London )Not the best Performance but they Dug in and got the job done ,Unlike some People

Absolutely fantastic job by Spurs. Save of the season for Gallas, and they put enough pressure on to keep Milan from totally dominating the game. I would have liked to see a more positive formation, but a 4-4-1-1 kept them from pushing too many men forward, so I guess it worked out. In the end, it was a must-win game for AC, and not for Spurs, so they did what had to be done and got the result they needed.
Looking forward to seeing how Spurs make out in the quarterfinals!

Also, I didn't watch the game, but it looks like it was a great result for Shalke too. They had a rough start to the tie, and I'm glad to see them put in the win they needed to advance. Should be a fun quarter stage!

 

[bradford]

If the Guns keep focus, they've still got a chance for the league title and the FA cup (though we'll see about that one on Saturday...)

A crucial game for both teams. It might have massive psychological impact on both teams, which will be weakened severely. Imagine if Arsenal lost three titles in 13 days. That would be a massive blow and that would affect their Premier League performance really strongly. Both teams will be weakened by injuries: Nani, Ferdinand (TBH not really a worry for me, Smalling's performances = 👍) and long-termers, Hargreaves and LA Valencia (does anyone know when will he be fit?). I think Szczęsny and Wilshere are out for AFC, along with some others.
Good result for Spurs today. Defense played really well (def. midfielder, Sandro ->great game today 👍).
Good result by Schalke, but probablt still one of the weakest quarterfinalists. I wouldn't mind playing them, as United fan. Haven't watched the game, but I've heard teams were pretty equal in quality, but Valencia lacked finish.

I agree about the discussion, it is one of the best I had with anyone about football 👍

 

[Touring Mars]

Champions League QF draw


Q1 - Real Madrid (ESP) - Tottenham Hotspur (ENG)

Q2 - Chelsea (ENG) - Manchester United (ENG)

Q3 - Barcelona (ENG) - Shaktar Donetsk (UKR)

Q4 - Inter Milan (ITA) - Schalke (GER)


Semi-Final Draw

Q4 - Q2

Q1 - Q3


Guaranteed English team in the Semi-Final - cannot be Real Madrid v Barca final...

 

[spiker]

This is going to be good.

 

[bradford]

Q2 - Chelsea (ENG) - Manchester United (ENG)

Well, that's going to be hard, considering how poor we perform at Stamford Bridge. Hopefully, referee will be decent, because last time,ref was a joke. It's a 50-50 for me, it might be decided by a single mistake/touch of genius. It's a good thing we get second leg at Old Trafford 👍

Q1 - Real Madrid (ESP) - Tottenham Hotspur (ENG)

It will be interesting. Tottenham are good team but simply not good enough to beat Real.

Q3 - Barcelona (ENG) - Shaktar Donetsk (UKR)

Barcelona are superior to Shakhtar. I sense a Barca-Real in semifinals, it will be a fantastic game

Q4 - Inter Milan (ITA) - Schalke (GER)

Inter are probably happiest with draw results, they should progress to semifinals, where United/Chelsea awaits them.

 

[Touring Mars]

My workmate (a Man Utd supporter) reckons on a Barca - Man U final... I largely agree, although he also thinks that the Mourinho factor might come into play, and Real might produce a shock. My money is on Barca though... still, theoretically it could be an all London final, Chelsea v Tottenham at Wembley! You'd get pretty good odds on that, though...