Un-official GTPlanet BBC Topgear UK ThreadTV

[mastretta_mx]

 

[kanjifreak]

I can't use Spanish, since this forum rules say you must use English.

Mastretta_Mx, I am also really pissed about these idiots and their bad taste slurs, nobody here seems to understand (after all, most of the forumers here are just from ex-British colonies or oppressed territories by the Brits, so they seem to like to be treated disrespectfully by their old patrons with comments like, hey, Australians are attacked and do not get offended, hey Welshmen are cool about insults, etc.).

One thing is a joke and another very different thing is a series of really disrespectful attacks against a whole country and its people.

I will do whatever I can to deteriorate the already stupid nature and idiotic capacities of those 3 childish and retarded "hosts".

If those three idiots visited a country with some pride after their "jokes" they will be dead now. But yeah, it is really easy to insult a whole country and then hide under your "fame" and "funny nature". Plain stupid brainless cowards. They even said, "yeah they will complain about it, no problem". PLAIN STUPID CHILDISH COWARDS, nothing more. At their age, my God, what a real pity.

 

[blaaah]

I would not be surprised if the Top Gear cast loved Mexico, would like to go there any-time and meet the people and enjoy seeing them. To me the sentiment is clear.
But clearly they shouldn't say anything illegal like racism. They are not in a court of law or under arrest, so they did not do anything racist one would have to assume.

 

[Joey D]

If Australians don't feel offended it is their way of thinking, not mine.

They can't feel offended, they walk around upside down and the blood rushes to their head making it hard for them to think clearly.

===

Was the Mexican stuff in bad taste? Sure but it was pretty tame compared to what American comedians say. Hell, Mexicans are constantly the centre of jokes told by Americans and I can't even recall a comedy show I've seen where someone doesn't crack a joke surround lazy Mexicans or illegal Mexicans.

Cracking jokes about other cultures is done by every culture, it's human nature to stereotype. I know and work with several Mexicans who make jokes about white guys from America all the time. Am I offended? No because I know it's all in good fun.

 

[kanjifreak]

I would not be surprised if the Top Gear cast loved Mexico, would like to go there any-time and meet the people and enjoy seeing them. To me the sentiment is clear.
But clearly they shouldn't say anything illegal like racism. They are not in a court of law or under arrest, so they did not do anything racist one would have to assume.

They are just stupid, ignorant and puerile. Poor miserable retarded immature old rats. They don't know anything about Mexico, they are just clowns with the power of the media and cowardice disguised as "we are being funny just like little high school girls, and we even feel proud about it at our age".

They can't feel offended, they walk around upside down and the blood rushes to their head making it hard for them to think clearly.

===

Was the Mexican stuff in bad taste? Sure but it was pretty tame compared to what American comedians say. Hell, Mexicans are constantly the centre of jokes told by Americans and I can't even recall a comedy show I've seen where someone doesn't crack a joke surround lazy Mexicans or illegal Mexicans.

Cracking jokes about other cultures is done by every culture, it's human nature to stereotype. I know and work with several Mexicans who make jokes about white guys from America all the time. Am I offended? No because I know it's all in good fun.

Come on dude, that is different. Between our countries there is A LOT of interaction, and we both make jokes about each other.

But 3 stupid, immature, and disrespectful Brits really far away from our "cosmo-vision"?

What the hell? We have nothing to do with them and vice-versa, they better shut up.

Trust me, we can offend them in public really hard too if we wanted. Mexican TV is way more powerful than their little silly toy company called BBC. I really used to enjoy the cultural offerings by the BBC, but after allowing this, they can go **** themselves.

 

[Joey D]

Come on dude, that is different. Between our countries there is A LOT of interaction, and we both make jokes about each other.

But 3 stupid, immature, and disrespectful Brits really far away from our "cosmo-vision"?

What the hell? We have nothing to do with them and vice-versa, they better shut up.

Trust me, we can offend them in public really hard too if we wanted. Mexican TV is way more powerful than their little silly toy company.

It doesn't matter where it's at, if you were passionate about your point you'd be more offended at Americans in general, then three British TV hosts. We crack way more Mexican jokes then any other country and we think it's perfectly acceptable to do so. Comedy Central always shows comedians doing a running joke containing Mexicans, illegal immigration, yard work, and being lazy.

And I'm willing to bet you Top Gear has way more influence then Mexican TV...but then again the only Mexican TV we get in the states are overly passionate soap operas, talk shows that have huge chested women talking about something, and soccer with some guy yelling GOOOOOOOOAAAAALLLL for 35 seconds.

Look, I'm not saying what Top Gear did was right, but what they did was tame compared to the US. I suggest you take your beef up with any American comedian first before crucifying the hosts of Top Gear.

And Mexican TV more powerful then the BBC? That's actually a really amusing statement, do you know anything about the BBC?

 

[mastretta_mx]

I would not be surprised if the Top Gear cast loved Mexico, would like to go there any-time and meet the people and enjoy seeing them. To me the sentiment is clear.
But clearly they shouldn't say anything illegal like racism. They are not in a court of law or under arrest, so they did not do anything racist one would have to assume.

well mexican journalist found something than could show the opposite idea:

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/741656.html

some quotes from the article

In an article written in the TV Show site in 2008, Clarckson propose "drop a bomb" over USA an Mexico, because the bankers from both countries were going to be the guilties from the inminent incoming economic crisis

"The only one solution than I see is a bomb, inmediatly and exhaustive over Mexico" he wrote

This " thanks to the lazy mexican fossil who borrowed a lot of money to buy a stupid prefab house than all the world have right now" . As a consequence " You lose your savings, your work, and after that your house"

Also " After that Irak will become in a rain of blood over all the mid-east countries and West will be unable of stop them". And insist: "All this because to a mexican than rather full his truck fuel tank instead paying his mortgage with blood".

So now it seems than for Jeremy Clarckson Mexico is the responsible from the war in Irak, the conflicts in mid-east and the economic crisis:tdown:

 

[kanjifreak]

It doesn't matter where it's at, if you were passionate about your point you'd be more offended at Americans in general, then three British TV hosts. We crack way more Mexican jokes then any other country and we think it's perfectly acceptable to do so. Comedy Central always shows comedians doing a running joke containing Mexicans, illegal immigration, yard work, and being lazy.

And I'm willing to bet you Top Gear has way more influence then Mexican TV...but then again the only Mexican TV we get in the states are overly passionate soap operas, talk shows that have huge chested women talking about something, and soccer with some guy yelling GOOOOOOOOAAAAALLLL for 35 seconds.

Look, I'm not saying what Top Gear did was right, but what they did was tame compared to the US. I suggest you take your beef up with any American comedian first before crucifying the hosts of Top Gear.

And Mexican TV more powerful then the BBC? That's actually a really amusing statement, do you know anything about the BBC?

If you are not aware of the broad massive penetration of TELEVISA around the world, then you are really living under a rock. The world is comprised of millions of Spanish speaking people, not just the 3 illegal dudes in the kitchen of your nearest McDonald's.

If you want, do your research, and see who has a bigger auditorium and economical power, TELEVISA or the BBC, come on go ahead. Not everything in the world is in English, you know?

And again, I do follow on Satellite TV the American comedians from time to time, and I do hear their jokes. AGAIN, that is mutual, we insult, play, joke about each other, Mexico vs. USA, USA vs. Mexico.

But what the **** do 3 stupid Brits are doing? We just do not consider them for anything, they are irrelevant in our lives, why the hell did they feel confident enough to attack us like that?

If we were Australian or Scottish, cool, we got some history there to play with. But us, Mexicans? We never talk about them, we never disrespected them. Come on, you can get the difference here.

Oh, and sorry dude, I don't want to be disrespectful, but saying that Top Gear has more influence than Mexican TV was just naive, to say the least. Americans always think that what they get as "the bomb", is what ALL the world gets as "the bomb" too, funny.

 

[Jay]

You guys are blowing this waaaaay out of proportion, but feel free to insult them back (like everyone else does), they will love it I can guarantee you that and thats much of the fun of it.

 

[kanjifreak]

You guys are blowing this waaaaay out of proportion, but feel free to insult them back (like everyone else does), they will love it I can guarantee you that and thats much of the fun of it.

A friend told me about this episode where these three idiots went to the USA, particularly to NASCAR passionate lands and began saying crap about NASCAR. Calling it some vulgar, pointless, and underdeveloped way of racing, etc.

The people got really pissed and hostile towards these 3 and ran away like little frightened rats...

My God, these 3 old idiots should just stop wasting the planet's oxygen.

What do they say about Australia? I'm curious.

 

[blaaah]

But what the **** do 3 stupid Brits are doing? We just do not consider them for anything, they are irrelevant in our lives, why the hell did they feel confident enough to attack us like that?

How can they be irrelevant if you care so much?

 

[mastretta_mx]

You guys are blowing this waaaaay out of proportion, but feel free to insult them back (like everyone else does), they will love it I can guarantee you that and thats much of the fun of it.

When the mexican embassy and goverment send a letter to the BBC demanding a public apology, when the mexican cable companies and news agencies announce than they will removed any media coming from the BBC, and al lot of people in the streets is upset you know this is not a minor misundertanding 👎

 

[F1GTR]

My God, these 3 old f*gs should just stop wasting the planet's oxygen.

You're just as bad as they are for using such a slur. Way to maintain your integrity. 👍

 

[kanjifreak]

You're just as bad as they are for using such a slur. Way to maintain your integrity. 👍

Oh, having a Leica as your avatar does give you a lot of integrity dude... LOL

I'm Mexican and English is my second language, so if the slurs are not "cool" then go 🤬 yourself, I am not the one living with only one language (which happens to be world wide spread thanks to your little, now big brother, not even yourselves, LOL!!!!)

Yet, I bet you I can speak as good English as you, LOL!

I mean an American can have some sort of excuse for their ignorance, they are the most powerful nation now, they spread English all over the world, they got the power now. But you?! My God what excuse could you have for your ignorance? LOL... "integrity"...

How can they be irrelevant if you care so much?

Come on, you can read, the 3 British are irrelevant in our lives, and yet they started insulting, turning them into real idiots. They got attention after that. Got it now?

 

[McLaren]

If those three idiots visited a country with some pride after their "jokes" they will be dead now

Oh, so now we're threatening them? Way to represent Mexico, both of you. 👍

When the mexican embassy and goverment send a letter to the BBC demanding a public apology, when the mexican cable companies and news agencies announce than they will removed any media coming from the BBC, and al lot of people in the streets is upset you know this is not a minor misundertanding 👎

As if the BBC will really do anything.

Oh, having a Leica as your avatar does give you a lot of integrity dude... LOL

I'm Mexican and English is my second language, so if the slurs are not "cool" then go 🤬 yourself, I am not the one living with only one language (which happens to be world wide spread thanks to your little, now big brother, not yourselves, LOL!!!!)

Thank god you will be banned soon.

 

[F1GTR]

Oh, having a Leica as your avatar does give you a lot of integrity dude... LOL

OK, how does my avatar undermine my integrity? Unlike you, I haven't resorted to offensive and derogatory language.

I'm Mexican and English is my second language, so if the slurs are not "cool" then go 🤬 yourself, I am not the one living with only one language (which happens to be world wide spread thanks to your little, now big brother, not yourselves, LOL!!!!)

You've assumed that English is my first language. It isn't. In fact, you'd be surprised to know that my last name is Ramos. And brush up on your world history, the British Empire was the reason as to why the language itself is so widespread. America hasn't really colonised the east to the same extent as the British did.

 

[Joey D]

So anyway, to maybe steer this discussion back on topic or at least one with less attacks and what not...

Top Gear Season 16 Starts On BBC America On February 7th

BBC America is really doing a great job with the turnaround time on getting episodes to airing. Just 15 days after it originally aired in the UK, episode 1 will air at 9PM (8 central) on Monday, February 7th. Following it at 10:20PM (9:20PM central) will be the second American special that aired in December. The next week on the 14th, episode 2 and the Middle East special will air. Make sure to tune in!

EDIT: And for the Australians out there, Top Gear UK will return on Tuesday, February 8th at 8PM.

So for those who don't watch Top Gear through other means will be able to view it on BBC America. I can't wait to see the blow up with the Middle East special in some parts of our country.

 

[blaaah]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/jeremy_clarkson/article6897960.ece
Read this article by Jeremy Clarkson about Bolivia in South America.
If you also think this is another example of him being racist, then it's conclusive that it is just a cultural difference of humour and expression. He doesn't really hate the things he is talking about, it's just a way of imaginatively describing and making something interesting or entertaining. What he says in words is not his truth or what his heart says. He is getting paid by the word in the style that he writes. And it's obvious he loves and is in awe of the rain-forest.

 

[Jay]

What do they say about Australia? I'm curious.

All the usual stereotypes plus much more about our cars and sporting (see, we beat them all the time and when we let them win they are all over it). It's all fun and games.

Oh and I wouldn't keep bypassing the swear filter or you will get a warning.

When the mexican embassy and goverment send a letter to the BBC demanding a public apology, when the mexican cable companies and news agencies announce than they will removed any media coming from the BBC, and al lot of people in the streets is upset you know this is not a minor misundertanding 👎

They already get that a lot, they wont apologise and if you guys make such a deal of it they will bring it up in a further episode as another joke. This is nothing new for Top Gear.

To be honest the bigger the fuss you (Mexican media etc) make, the worse it will look for Mexico, unless it is returned in jest like it was supposed to be received.

 

[kanjifreak]

OK, how does my avatar undermine my integrity? Unlike you, I haven't resorted to offensive and derogatory language.



You've assumed that English is my first language. It isn't. In fact, you'd be surprised to know that my last name is Ramos. And brush up on your world history, the British Empire was the reason as to why the language itself is so widespread. America hasn't really colonised the east to the same extent as the British did.

Hola señor Ramos! Oh, English is world wide spread because of the Brits? Yeah, sure, it got spread because of them to the USA, Australia, and other territories, now it happens to be wide spread everywhere because of the USA, not the UK, LOL!!

Sorry about the derogatory language, now I'm the aggressor... sure... Come on, it was only fun!! Like the one you praise so much from the TOP GEAR cast! Come on, LOL!!! Everybody now laugh with me, I'm being funny, and that is totally normal and allowed!!!! Laugh laugh... All in good fun...

And keeping the fun up, Leicas and dorks are always friends, LOL, come on all in good fun, like in TOP Gear, because Leicas are the typical object of desire for a guy that knows nothing about photography, yet needs the most expensive 35mm camera out there, being like nerds with the most expensive comic book out there, holding and praising them to the point of fetichism, a sick fetichism that results in no interity, come on, everybody laugh, LOL, all in good fun, like in TOP GEAR... Laugh, laugh...

Oh, so now we're threatening them? Way to represent Mexico, both of you. 👍


As if the BBC will really do anything.

Thank god you will be banned soon.

"I (little girlie heart) boobies"

What are you? A teenager?

You are always a genius McLaren...

 

[McLaren]

"I (little girlie heart) boobies"

What are you? A teenager?

You are always a genius McLaren...

Thank you, I know.

And maybe one day you can actually hold a valid argument & not look like the upset child you are who resorts to everything but the topic at hand.👍

 

[kanjifreak]

Thank you, I know.

And maybe one day you can actually hold a valid argument & not look like the upset child you are who resorts to everything but the topic at hand.👍

You simply do not provide quality feedback, it is no use to try to talk with you in a different level. You are the typical guy that always replies with exaggerated to the limit analogies:

I say: Damn Top Gear, they insulted me with slurs in humor.

You say: Oh, so you hate all comedians?

My God, your lack of understanding is beyond human nature McLaren.

 

[F1GTR]

Hola señor Ramos! Oh, English is world wide spread because of the Brits? Yeah, sure, it got spread because of them to the USA, Australia, and other territories, now it happens to be wide spread everywhere because of the USA, not the UK, LOL!!

Sorry about the derogatory language, now I'm the aggressor... sure... Come on, it was only fun!! Like the one you praise so much from the TOP GEAR cast! Come on, LOL!!!

You still haven't answered my question. Additionally, check your facts, you don't want the Mexican stereotype to include 'ignorant' as well as 'lazy, feckless, flatulent, overweight, leaning against a fence asleep looking at a cactus with a blanket with a hole in the middle on as a coat' now, do you?

I understand your outrage. But there's a difference between racial humour and racism, the reason why people found it funny, and why it was delivered in a comic (rather than hateful) context was not because it epitomised Mexico as a nation, but rather it exaggerated an already recognised ridiculous stereotype to stretching point.

 

[McLaren]

You simply do not provide quality feedback, it is no use to try to talk with you in a different level. You are the typical guy that always replies with exaggerated to the limit analogies:

I say: Damn Top Gear, they insulted me with slurs in humor.

You say: Oh, so you hate all comedians?

My God, your stupidity is beyond human nature McLaren. As always...

It's fine if you are unable to comprehend my words. Most people unable to think with half a brain can't. Those same people are also incapable of knowing when they've made a big deal out of something they admit they have no knowledge of beforehand.

Perhaps when you learn to take a step back & laugh at yourself, you'll be able to grow up and see that Clarkson is just taking the piss out of Mexico.

Until then, keep crying or stop watching. Either way, the rest of us are provided with entertainment. 👍

 

[blaaah]

kanjifreak you are trying to find racism where there isn't any, just spend a few seconds browsing Youtube and you will find pure racism about Mexico. I just had a quick search on there and there is highly offensive material, for years which hasn't been deleted or moderated.
Youtube video and comments more specifically really show the poorest expressions of humanity.

 

[kanjifreak]

It's fine if you are unable to comprehend my words. Most people unable to think with half a brain can't. Those same people are also incapable of knowing when they've made a big deal out of something they admit they have no knowledge of beforehand.

Perhaps when you learn to take a step back & laugh at yourself, you'll be able to grow up and see that Clarkson is just taking the piss out of Mexico.

Until then, keep crying or stop watching. Either way, the rest of us are provided with entertainment. 👍

Ok dude, let's be cool. I really don't like you, but I'd rather pretend that you are wise than keep on reading "stuff".

Sure, I will grow up, laugh at myself for being offended by racial slurs from a public person doing them for fun. Which means that it should not be offensive according to your culture and the Brits, just because it was for fun.

Got it, thanks. See you around...

You still haven't answered my question. Additionally, check your facts, you don't want the Mexican stereotype to include 'ignorant' as well as 'lazy, feckless, flatulent, overweight, leaning against a fence asleep looking at a cactus with a blanket with a hole in the middle on as a coat' now, do you?

I understand your outrage. But there's a difference between racial humour and racism, the reason why people found it funny, and why it was delivered in a comic (rather than hateful) context was not because it epitomised Mexico as a nation, but rather it exaggerated an already recognised ridiculous stereotype to stretching point.

Sorry I edited and you couldn't read the comment, here it goes:


Hola señor Ramos! Oh, English is world wide spread because of the Brits? Yeah, sure, it got spread because of them to the USA, Australia, and other territories, now it happens to be wide spread everywhere because of the USA, not the UK, LOL!!

Sorry about the derogatory language, now I'm the aggressor... sure... Come on, it was only fun!! Like the one you praise so much from the TOP GEAR cast! Come on, LOL!!! Everybody now laugh with me, I'm being funny, and that is totally normal and allowed!!!! Laugh laugh... All in good fun...

And keeping the fun up, Leicas and dorks are always friends, LOL, come on all in good fun, like in TOP Gear, because Leicas are the typical object of desire for a guy that knows nothing about photography, yet needs the most expensive 35mm camera out there, being like nerds with the most expensive comic book out there, holding and praising them to the point of fetichism, a sick fetichism that results in no interity, come on, everybody laugh, LOL, all in good fun, like in TOP GEAR... Laugh, laugh... Just a Leica owner stereotype, in good fun, LOL laugh laugh.

Sorry, but the British empire spread the language to their colonies only back then. The USA spread it everywhere else just with modern economical dominance. Are those facts something that need brushing? My God...

kanjifreak you are trying to find racism where there isn't any, just spend a few seconds browsing Youtube and you will find pure racism about Mexico. I just had a quick search on there and there is highly offensive material, for years which hasn't been deleted or moderated.
Youtube video and comments more specifically really show the poorest expressions of humanity.

I'm not the one talking about racism, it is the other guy from Mexico, Mastretta_mx, I'm only finding ignorance and stupidity on the TOP GEAR cast and some of its audience.

And indeed, youtube shows how low humanity can get...

 

[McLaren]

Sure, I will grow up, laugh at myself for being offended by racial slurs from a public person doing them for fun. Which means that it should not be offensive according to your culture and the Brits, just because it was for fun.

Got it, thanks. See you around...

Now let's try actually being sincere. As repeatedly said, it was not said as a racial slur. It was intended in the same way Carlos Mencia or George Lopez make fun of Mexicans for packing tightly into cars, doing yard work, being cheap, etc. etc Did you not see the people laughing?

They make fun of everything. They call semi drivers murderers, Americans fat, they make fun of their own govt. They're no different from a comedian delivering racial jokes in the way they are intended. And like comedians, if you make a big deal out of it, they just keep doing it.

Just to help make my point known, there is a reason people think the show is becoming too comedic & focusing on everything except cars.

 

[kanjifreak]

Now let's try actually being sincere. As repeatedly said, it was not said as a racial slur. It was intended in the same way Carlos Mencia or George Lopez make fun of Mexicans for packing tightly into cars, doing yard work, being cheap, etc. etc Did you not see the people laughing?

They make fun of everything. They call semi drivers murderers, Americans fat, they make fun of their own govt. They're no different from a comedian delivering racial jokes in the way they are intended. And like comedians, if you make a big deal out of it, they just keep doing it.

Just to help make my point known, there is a reason people think the show is becoming too comedic & focusing on everything except cars.

Dude I understand it all, really. What you do not understand is that in my culture, that is not ok. Is that so hard to get? That is why the vast majority of Mexicans aware of that got pissed, not just me.

Sure the show was in Britain, not in Mexico, but that doesn't take the piss away from things. If everything in life could be judged under one strict culture's approval, then the world would have no wars, nor conflicts. That is an utopia.

I'll give you a reverse example, in Mexico we can make fun of black people without making the few black people here offended, all of us just understand it as plain good fun. We even had TV shows about that, characters, a pretty famous comic book, etc. If we showed that to Americans, my God, you will not understand the fun factor there and will just take it as an insult and something inappropriate, and really make a huge deal about it.

As said many times before, it is cultural!

 

[Northstar]

So you don't make jokes about other cultures?

I could see your point if they never made fun of anyone, but the fact they've made fun of pretty much every country with any automotive relevance totally ruins your argument.

They've even had entire segments devoted to doing just that.





There are countless others, but it's not really necessary to post them.

 

[F1GTR]

Sorry I edited and you couldn't read the comment, here it goes:


Hola señor Ramos! Oh, English is world wide spread because of the Brits? Yeah, sure, it got spread because of them to the USA, Australia, and other territories, now it happens to be wide spread everywhere because of the USA, not the UK, LOL!!

Sorry about the derogatory language, now I'm the aggressor... sure... Come on, it was only fun!! Like the one you praise so much from the TOP GEAR cast! Come on, LOL!!! Everybody now laugh with me, I'm being funny, and that is totally normal and allowed!!!! Laugh laugh... All in good fun...

And keeping the fun up, Leicas and dorks are always friends, LOL, come on all in good fun, like in TOP Gear, because Leicas are the typical object of desire for a guy that knows nothing about photography, yet needs the most expensive 35mm camera out there, being like nerds with the most expensive comic book out there, holding and praising them to the point of fetichism, a sick fetichism that results in no interity, come on, everybody laugh, LOL, all in good fun, like in TOP GEAR... Laugh, laugh...

Sorry, but the British empire spread the language to their colonies only back then. The USA spread it everywhere else just with modern economical dominance. Are those facts something that need brushing? My God...

I actually find the Leica user stereotype quite funny actually. In fact I do take the piss out of the doctors (wait, it's dentists) that take amazingly sharp yet poorly composed and bland photography with their ten thousand dollar set-ups. It's part and parcel of being seen as a premium brand. But rest assured, I do know how to take photographs. I shoot with a Leica firstly because I enjoy the pared down simplicity of a rangefinder, and secondly, in camera terms it's actually rather cheap - I can't think of any other brand where a film camera actually appreciates in value over time, so if I decided that the whole rangefinder thing wasn't for me (however it is) I could actually sell my M setup on for a profit. I shoot different formats and brands, I love photography, Leicas are excellent photographic tools, ergo I use them.

As for the English thing, not really. The spread of English across the globe as a language was directly because of the British colonising activities in the 17/18th century. Later generations were taught English as it was an institutional thing. Novels were written by members of those colonies. Those novels spread.The ubiquity of the language today is symptomatic of the wide reach the British Empire had. Plus we had the biggest bands in the world in the 20th century, and I'd argue that penetration into foreign popular culture has a much larger effect on the proliferation of a language than economic clout. Statesmen would have been educated in English anyway.