Unpopular Motorsport Opinions

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Williams should of Won every seasons Driver title from 1992 to 1997 If they had the Driver Talent to match Schumacher.

But they nearly did, it could be argued that the "talent" of Schumacher crashing Hill won it for them in 94 as well as the wreck and rules violations of 95. And had Senna not died perhaps. I don't think Williams lacked the talent at all, just the tenacity of winning at all costs.

 

[ScottPuss20]

We know.

Wait, I already posted something similar in this thread? Sorry, I totally forgot.

 

[Liquid]

And had Senna not died perhaps. I don't think Williams lacked the talent at all, just the tenacity of winning at all costs.

This is one I've almost certainly said before but UMO: Senna wouldn't have won a world title with Williams and would have retired after 1996 at the latest.

Also as well as bending rules, having a supremely talented driver and other teams not picking up the slack, pitstops won Benetton a lot of races. In 1995 in particular; the VHS season review made a point of demonstrating how much quicker and more efficient Benetton's pit crew was than that of all the other teams.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This is one I've almost certainly said before but UMO: Senna wouldn't have won a world title with Williams and would have retired after 1996 at the latest.

Also as well as bending rules, having a supremely talented driver and other teams not picking up the slack, pitstops won Benetton a lot of races. In 1995 in particular; the VHS season review made a point of demonstrating how much quicker and more efficient Benetton's pit crew was than that of all the other teams.

I can actually get on board with that more than I can with the other stuff. While Senna was starting to finally get a handle for the car before he died and actually was quite fast at points, that is no way a reflection of a full season. Thus you can only say perhaps, which is what I've done. I think it's easily possible to say he'd still have lost to Michael and perhaps in the same manner as Damon.

As for 95, I still think Hill had talent that others seem to deny him, which is why he'll probably be remembered slightly better or the same as Rosberg.

 

[Peter.]

I really find it hard to believe that someone could say with such confidence that Senna wouldn't have won a title with Williams while Hill managed to do it once and was a challenger several more times. I'm not going to put him in a divine, untouchable category, but he was undoubtedly a far superior driver to Hill, and would have definitely put the effort in to winning even if it didn't look too good for him at the start of the year.

Pure hypotheticals of course, since he died after all, but how would one of the most highly rated drivers, not just in the 90's, but of all time, somehow not be able to win a title with the team to beat in the 90's, while a driver who most people would see as a tier below at least, though still undoubtedly talented, in the same team had no issue being competitive?

 

[Liquid]

I really find it hard to believe that someone could say with such confidence that Senna wouldn't have won a title with Williams while Hill managed to do it once and was a challenger several more times.

In the two years Hill was a challenger to Schumacher, 1994 and 1995, Williams did not have great cars or were uncompetitive against the Benetton team in other ways.

My hypothesis has always been that Senna would have struggled in 1994 and 1995 as Hill and Williams actually did; the 1995 season wasn't even a challenge and 1994 only went down to the last race due to Schumacher's two race ban. Benetton clearly had the superior car. By this point at the end of 1995, aged 35, he would have retired or maybe taken Eddie Jordan on his offer of 50% team ownership and have become a driver/owner for Jordan in 1996 and nurtured a still-young Rubens Barrichello.

Then he would have been annoyed that he walked away from Williams just as the car came good in 1996.

I don't say it with confidence just as you cannot say that Senna would have won the 1994/1995 titles with confidence. It is a restrained, somewhat calculated estimation.

 

[Peter.]

Fair enough, that's the purpose of this thread after all. Still would say that it would have at least been a bit harder for Schumacher with Senna leading the charge instead of Hill. Also don't think Senna had any intentions of quitting until he won at least one more title.

 

[Suzumiya]

TCR is cool

 

[TDZdave]

TCR is cool

Indeed, and buying a new competitive car is less then half the price of a GT3, but! I fear VWAG is going to ruin it, Seat, Volkswagen, Audi, all running the same VWAG engine, gearbox and other components,

 

[Liquid]

I liked Kevin Magnussen retiring today but only because it was nice to see an old-school engine failure with smoke pouring out of the back instead of pre-emptively being told to stop by the team.

 

[jake2013guy]

I liked Kevin Magnussen retiring today but only because it was nice to see an old-school engine failure with smoke pouring out of the back instead of pre-emptively being told to stop by the team.

Don't you mean Grosjean?

 

[Simmpa]

Remove the demand for WRC cars to have to be based on production vehicles. It maybe had a point during the Group A era but since the world rally car regulations in 1997 I see little point in having to have them taking a production car and when strip out 99% of all parts and say with a straight face that It´s based on a regular road car. I want to see more freedom like the Group B era that would also allow more manufacturers.

 

[R5]

I want to see more freedom like the Group B era that would also allow more manufacturers.

Yyyyyeah but I don't think too many manufacturers want Group B part 2 if only for the ridiculous costs it'll create.

 

[Liquid]

WRC isn't prestigious enough at the moment for it to become the WSPC on gravel and for costs to spiral out of control.

 

[mwoodski]

The cars are already a zillion times faster over a stage than the old Grp B cars. The fact they're wrapped in a small hatchback shell makes it even better.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The cars are already a zillion times faster over a stage than the old Grp B cars. The fact they're wrapped in a small hatchback shell makes it even better.

But still way slower in a straight line, you can't compare a 2315 lb RS200 with up to 580 bhp with a 2932 Focus limited to to 300bhp. The gains are from mechanical grip rather than brute force... it's obvious which one will be more fun to watch as it passes but it's also obvious which one is most likely to spear up the hill and try to squash me.

Unpopular opinion: Group B should have been banned sooner

 

[Com Fox]

LMP1 is literally a limping horse right now.

I don't see it surviving a few years, manufacturers are losing interest, it's almost pointless to do for privateers.

 

[Pete05]

LMP1 is literally a limping horse right now.

I don't see it surviving a few years, manufacturers are losing interest, it's almost pointless to do for privateers.

It needs a rewrite of the rules for sure.
At the moment it's Porsche versus Toyota. If either one of those pulls the pin, the other will follow. Neither want to be seen as beating up the little guy in front of everyone.

 

[Peter.]

Nissan probably turned potential manufacturers off LMP1 due to how much they struggled. Similarly I would say Honda did and is doing the same for F1.

Shame because Toyota and Porsche showed that it didn't take very long to become competitive.

 

[Com Fox]

Honda did

Honda didn't really enter as a legit manufacturer into LMP1. They mainly just supplied cars to the private teams.

 

[Pete05]

Honda didn't really enter as a legit manufacturer into LMP1. They mainly just supplied cars to the private teams.

I think @Peter. is referring to Honda's multi-million dollar effort in F1 that has yielded a lot of embarrassment & diddly squat as far as results are concerned.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Nissan probably turned potential manufacturers off LMP1 due to how much they struggled. Similarly I would say Honda did and is doing the same for F1.

Shame because Toyota and Porsche showed that it didn't take very long to become competitive.

To be fair, they didn't help themselves by making a front engine FWD car whilst everyone else had mid-engined RWD entries. I'm no engineer or anything but I knew straight away it was destined to fail or at least be uncompetitive.

 

[Com Fox]

To be fair, they didn't help themselves by making a front engine FWD car whilst everyone else had mid-engined RWD entries. I'm no engineer or anything but I knew straight away it was destined to fail or at least be uncompetitive.

Another problem that struck some red flags (at least for me) was that they were way to public about the project, it fell through the same hole the Aston Martin AMR-One program fell through.

I think FIA WEC is a bit to blame in terms of scaring Private teams off LMP1. ACO felt like LMP1 was not needed in ELMS so they killed it off and private teams had to either enter LMP2, enter the ALMS which was merging with Rolex anyway or waste way to much money to go global. Only Rebellion Racing was able to do it successfully but they've now decided to pull the plug and go to LMP2.

 

[TheCracker]

Remove the demand for WRC cars to have to be based on production vehicles. It maybe had a point during the Group A era but since the world rally car regulations in 1997 I see little point in having to have them taking a production car and when strip out 99% of all parts and say with a straight face that It´s based on a regular road car. I want to see more freedom like the Group B era that would also allow more manufacturers.

There's no benefit to manufacturers to pump millions into a fully prototype rally car if it doesn't reflect in anyway what they sell on the forecourt. In the Group B era Peugeot, Lancia, Austin Rover etc all bent over backwards to get their cars looking similar to one of their road cars purely for that reason. Ford was the only manufacturer who went down a different route.

It needs a rewrite of the rules for sure.
At the moment it's Porsche versus Toyota. If either one of those pulls the pin, the other will follow. Neither want to be seen as beating up the little guy in front of everyone.

Audi effectively did that for years. Didn't damage their reputation one bit.

 

[Com Fox]

Audi effectively did that for years. Didn't damage their reputation one bit.

It only happened in 2000. 2001-2003 had Bentley involved. 2004-2005 was just private teams running Audis. 2006, Pescarolo Sport actually posed as decent competition and then in 2007 Peugeot showed up.

Think about now, if either Toyota or Porsche leave, it'll be the one standing against ByKolles a relatively small LMP1 private team who struggles to even beat the LMP2 teams.

 

[TheCracker]

It only happened in 2000. 2001-2003 had Bentley involved. 2004-2005 was just private teams running Audis. 2006, Pescarolo Sport actually posed as decent competition and then in 2007 Peugeot showed up.

The Bentley wasn't much more than a typical VAG badge-job of the R8. 'Competition' created by Audi themselves. That six/seven year period of domination is what cemented Audi's sporting reputation in this century. Something they're still milking now even though they've retired from LMP1.

That's not to say that the current LMP1 period of regulations isn't on the wane and will have to be shaken up if it wants to attract more manufacturers or privateer teams. But that always happens or needs to happen every 8 seasons or so.

 

[Com Fox]

The Bentley wasn't much more than a typical VAG badge-job of the R8. 'Competition' created by Audi themselves. That six/seven year period of domination is what cemented Audi's sporting reputation in this century. Something they're still milking now even though they've retired from LMP1.

Even still that's only 4 years of pure Audi dominance. I don't think the ones with private teams count since Audi thenselves weren't as involved and there was actual competition 2006 onwards.

 

[TheCracker]

Even still that's only 4 years of pure Audi dominance. I don't think the ones with private teams count since Audi thenselves weren't as involved and there was actual competition 2006 onwards.

Maybe so (the same could be said of Porsche and it's customer teams in the dominant 956/962 era) but Audi still count those customer wins and so do the record books.

 

[Liquid]

Even still that's only 4 years of pure Audi dominance. I don't think the ones with private teams count since Audi thenselves weren't as involved and there was actual competition 2006 onwards.

The fact that they were using Audis speaks volumes about the level of chassis competitiveness at that time.

Whether it's factory Audi or privateer Audi, it's still an Audi.

 

[Com Fox]

The fact that they were using Audis speaks volumes about the level of chassis competitiveness at that time.

Whether it's factory Audi or privateer Audi, it's still an Audi.

It wasn't about competitiveness, if it was I agree but this is about Audi playing on their own. Which I don't think privateer Audis count.