Unpopular Motorsport Opinions

[Jimlaad43]

I think it's sad that the LMP1 and F1 engines are so expensive because they are incredible power sources, these modern top of the pack cars are some of the most spectacular vehicles ever in terms of performance that it's sad they're just so expensive.

 

[TDZdave]

It only happened in 2000. 2001-2003 had Bentley involved. 2004-2005 was just private teams running Audis. 2006, Pescarolo Sport actually posed as decent competition and then in 2007 Peugeot showed up.

Think about now, if either Toyota or Porsche leave, it'll be the one standing against ByKolles a relatively small LMP1 private team who struggles to even beat the LMP2 teams.

Honestly, I think it comes down to if either, most likely Lexus, start a DPi program, if Lexus does go ahead with that I see Toyota dropping their LMP1 program, then Porsche would probably follow,

I'd like to see DPi develop into something internationally strong, the heavy hitters left LMP1 the ACO would be stupid to ignore it, they would have to adopt DPi, and give freedom to some of the bigger teams in LMP2 like Alpine and Rebellion to build their own bodywork and find their own engine supplier, Le Mans would become q major competition spectacle seeing 30 cars actually capable of winning outright,

 

[mwoodski]

Alpine doesn't want to build their own bodywork. They're perfectly happy with just throwing their stickers on a box-stock Oreca.

 

[Silver Arrows]

But still way slower in a straight line, you can't compare a 2315 lb RS200 with up to 580 bhp with a 2932 Focus limited to to 300bhp. The gains are from mechanical grip rather than brute force... it's obvious which one will be more fun to watch as it passes but it's also obvious which one is most likely to spear up the hill and try to squash me.

Unpopular opinion: Group B should have been banned sooner

It should have never got off the ground to begin with. Even with racing technologies rapidly getting better in the 80's, with the crowds they were pulling, they were bound to smash into a brick wall of safety spiraling out of control, and people dying.

 

[TheCracker]

I'd like to see DPi develop into something internationally strong, the heavy hitters left LMP1 the ACO would be stupid to ignore it, they would have to adopt DPi, and give freedom to some of the bigger teams in LMP2 like Alpine and Rebellion to build their own bodywork and find their own engine supplier, Le Mans would become q major competition spectacle seeing 30 cars actually capable of winning outright,

Whilst i agree that that would be quite the spectacle, the ACO has always ploughed their own furrow as they know that the lure of 'winning at Le Mans' is too great to ignore. They'll do what they want to do, not what popular opinion wants.

As far as ACO/Le Mans regulations goes:

 

[Peter.]

To be fair, they didn't help themselves by making a front engine FWD car whilst everyone else had mid-engined RWD entries. I'm no engineer or anything but I knew straight away it was destined to fail or at least be uncompetitive.

I think people are using FWD as a reason to beat up on Nissan when it was far from the problem with the car. If I remmeber correctly they ran that programme on a shoestring budget and outsourced their highly sophisticated hybrid system that was almost guaranteed to not work properly first time around. The car relied on it to be anything more than just a slow P2 car.

They wouldn't have just built a FWD car just cause, and certainly not if the multitude of handling issues people seem to think it was bound to have were a certainty.

 

[G.T.Ace]

I'm no engineer or anything but I knew straight away it was destined to fail or at least be uncompetitive.

The car wasn't uncompetitive at all, its god damn hybrid system just didn't work.
Its pace was actually very good. I'm still pissed at Nissan for pulling the plug so early, the whole project had tons of potential and it definitely was interesting. Especially after the hype in the beginning, they shouldn't have killed it off.

EDIT: Also, the hybrid would have made it 4WD, it was only FWD without the e-power.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

The car wasn't uncompetitive at all, its god damn hybrid system just didn't work.
Its pace was actually very good. I'm still pissed at Nissan for pulling the plug so early, the whole project had tons of potential and it definitely was interesting. Especially after the hype in the beginning, they shouldn't have killed it off.

EDIT: Also, the hybrid would have made it 4WD, it was only FWD without the e-power.

Didn't it qualify behind some of the LMP2 teams? That doesn't seem competitive to me.

 

[Leadfoot530]

Didn't it qualify behind some of the LMP2 teams? That doesn't seem competitive to me.

McLaren's engines are always acting up. Easy to be uncompetitive when stuff ain't working right.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Didn't it qualify behind some of the LMP2 teams? That doesn't seem competitive to me.

Nope, they were almost on par with with the private P1s, on FWD only, while the car was developed with hybrid in mind.
With the hybrid and the working 4WD system, they could've easily been on the level of Toyota that year.

 

[IforceV8]

All you need to know about what that project was is in this video- Darren Cox @ 2:03



$13.5 million spent and critical development time wasted on a Superbowl commercial for a car that it's career highlight was beating a old Doran DP in a commerical running COTA in reverse.

 

[Silver Arrows]

All you need to know about what that project was is in this video- Darren Cox @ 2:03



$13.5 million spent and critical development time wasted on a Superbowl commercial for a car that it's career highlight was beating a old Doran DP in a commerical running COTA in reverse.

Exactly, the Nissan LMP1 was playing Russian Roulette from the get go. And stuff like this certainly didn't help.

 

[TheCracker]

Didn't it qualify behind some of the LMP2 teams? That doesn't seem competitive to me.

It did, but it's hybrid system, which was an inherent part of its design was never used because they couldn't get it working in time. Considering how down on power they were and how the lack of AWD would have hampered them, it was showing promise as a concept. Nissan slashing their massive motorsport programme meant that it's issues would never get resolved and we never got to find out if its radical concept would be competitive.

 

[Peter.]

As soon as it was launched, everyone wanted a reason to say LOL FWD FAIL, so all that's happened is that people have only spoke about it's failure and unconventional design, and not its promise as a concept, or why it really failed. The only reason it probably even is a failure is because Nissan pulled the plug before getting it to work.

Perhaps if they received encouragement rather than ignorant ridicule, they would still be around now.

 

[IforceV8]

As soon as it was launched, everyone wanted a reason to say LOL FWD FAIL, so all that's happened is that people have only spoke about it's failure and unconventional design, and not its promise as a concept, or why it really failed

The LOL group seemed to be right though.

The only reason it probably even is a failure is because Nissan pulled the plug before getting it to work.

It went fast in a straight line, broke when it hit a curb, needed new brakes after 6 laps, and had a broken from the start hybrid system they bought from Rockauto or Amazon. The best part of the car was the Cosworth V6 which will live on in LMP1 in 2018.

Perhaps if they received encouragement rather than ignorant ridicule, they would still be around now.

Everybody reach out and give Nissan a big internet hug today. Lucky for them they still have a endless supply of press releases to come bragging about their upcoming victories in LMP3 with their class exclusive spec engine.

 

[Peter.]

It went fast in a straight line, broke when it hit a curb, needed new brakes after 6 laps, and had a broken from the start hybrid system they bought from Rockauto or Amazon. The best part of the car was the Cosworth V6 which will live on in LMP1 in 2018.

It was also their first crack at it in years, with a limited budget. Running into problems given the circumstances was a certainty. They shouldn't have been expected to be fast and reliable right away, not that they didn't leave a lot of room for improvement.

 

[-Fred-]

It was also their first crack at it in years, with a limited budget. Running into problems given the circumstances was a certainty. They shouldn't have been expected to be fast and reliable right away, not that they didn't leave a lot of room for improvement.

But trying to "reinvent the wheel" while on a limited budget is sure to create more problems. I'm fairly confident a typical mid engined car would have been much more reliable and better packaged while dropping costs down. Perhaps they'd still be around giving Toyota and Porsche a run for their money.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Going FWD made the Nissan LMP too complicated in sorting it's hybrid power delivery. If they kept the front engined layout but sent ICE power to the back and hybrid power to the front, it would have worked better.

 

[Suzumiya]

Good to know iForceV8 still hating on anything Nissan

 

[mwoodski]

Good to know iForceV8 still hating on anything Nissan

Just gotta wait for R1600Turbo and his "Nissan can't do anything wrong" stance to keep the balance.

 

[Suzumiya]

God I love this subforum

 

[Silver Arrows]

I never realized there was this much of a dick measuring contest to see who can slag or defend Nissan more.

 

[TheBook]

Wait'll you visit the F1 threads.

 

[Kingofweasles]

Wait'll you visit the F1 threads.

Just replace "Nissan" with "Honda" and you'll fit in, right?

 

[Liquid]

But trying to "reinvent the wheel" while on a limited budget is sure to create more problems. I'm fairly confident a typical mid engined car would have been much more reliable and better packaged while dropping costs down. Perhaps they'd still be around giving Toyota and Porsche a run for their money.

This.

If Porsche or Toyota wanted to field an experimental FWD car alongside their established factory efforts, fine. That would have been interesting.

Nissan jumping into FWD prototypes feet first without any recent sports car experience as a constructor and with too little money was just too big a risk and it blew up in their face.

 

[IforceV8]

Good to know iForceV8 still hating on anything Nissan

They did a great job with their fan engagement when they opened up their garage at Silverstone, it's too bad they didnt spend that time building a product that actually worked. Overhyped, underdeveloped, and in the end a corporate embarrassment that cost a lot of people their jobs (and some who deserved to be fired).

 

[Tornado]

It was also their first crack at it in years, with a limited budget.

Then, again, they probably could have saved some of that Superbowl advertisement money to put towards it.

 

[Suzumiya]

Because marketing department = development department

 

[Tornado]

When talking about a racing team that is already operating as a subset of the overall manufacturer, it probably does pull out of the same fund, yes.

 

[Silver Arrows]

When talking about a racing team that is already operating as a subset of the overall manufacturer, it probably does pull out of the same fund, yes.

Exactly. Though at the same time, the old adage 'race on Sunday, sell on Monday' does apply and has proven to work, albeit it's effectiveness is on a case by case basis.