Unpopular Motorsport Opinions

[Strittan]

Appearances can be, and in this case are, deceptive.

Yeah well, for me, appearance is sort of important when I’m looking at something.

 

[Grand Prix]

Uhm… of course, but that’s not my point, is it? My point is that the cars are too big. It’s ridiculous. They’re also too safe, yes, I said it and I mean it. Take away all the danger and you take away the excitement as well, for me anyway, which us why I don’t care anymore. It’s become a sport that I love to hate basically.

Oh, I agree that the cars are too large and ungainly now. I don't think that is an unpopular opinion.

However, I don't agree with you on the safety aspect. Having F1 cars that are safe to the driver in a crash is a good thing, it means that they can make the cars more powerful, among other things. Fast in a straight line and loose in the corners, that is how I like my cars.

 

[Scaff]

Yeah well, for me, appearance is sort of important when I’m looking at something.

So if the cars were actually easy to drive, but appeared tricky then it would be OK?

Any professional, in any discipline, can make the difficult look easy.

Part of what's also made cars look easier to drive, and this applies across pretty much all of Motorsport, is on board camera technology. The violently shaking cameras of the 80s and 90s make the cars look a hell of a lot more exciting than the rock solid stability we have now.

Arguably the easiest F1 car to drive was actually from 93.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Yeah well, for me, appearance is sort of important when I’m looking at something.

Just watch Nikita Mazepin drive and you'll see how not-easy they are.

 

[PeterJB]

I would say they look easier to drive than 10 years ago on the basis that errors and collisions in races are much rarer. They've never developed more downforce, and when you compare onboards of Vettel's Red Bulls to Hamilton's Mercedes you can see which cars have more grip.

 

[Jimlaad43]

I think the lack of errors in races is more down to the tyres, as the drivers aren't on the limit as much in races as the tyres don't allow that.
Hence why there's a lot more crashes in qualifying when the drivers actually are on the limit and margins for error are tiny.

 

[Strittan]

So if the cars were actually easy to drive, but appeared tricky then it would be OK?

Any professional, in any discipline, can make the difficult look easy.

Part of what's also made cars look easier to drive, and this applies across pretty much all of Motorsport, is on board camera technology. The violently shaking cameras of the 80s and 90s make the cars look a hell of a lot more exciting than the rock solid stability we have now.

Arguably the easiest F1 car to drive was actually from 93.

I don’t know how you’d make something easy look tricky, but yes, that would indeed make it more exciting to watch.

The circuits were not as smooth, and again, I suspect that the wheelbase of today’s cars probably helps with the stability as well.

I never claimed to be a fan of the ‘93 Williams, if that’s the car you mean.

Also, the wheelbase (or rather the overall size of the cars) and the super smooth track surfaces are just two of the things I don’t like. Then there’s DRS, the engine sounds, and I think there’s way too much radio communication.

If I could make three rule changes, I would shorten the maximum wheelbase by at least 400 mm, get rid of DRS and prohibit all radio communication.

 

[Jimlaad43]

So:
Make it unsafer/less space for a fuel tank.
Make the races boring. DRS works very well because it's a visible overtaking aid, not something nobody can understand or see from a spectator like Push-to-Pass.
A stupid idea in every way imaginable.

 

[Dylan]

and prohibit all radio communication.

Didn’t they try that a couple of years ago?

 

[WiisardNic]

Didn’t they try that a couple of years ago?

Sort of, but not really. Only in relation to "driving the car unaided"

 

[PeterJB]

Purely on safety grounds banning all radio communication would be a very bad idea.

 

[WiisardNic]

I don’t know how you’d make something easy look tricky, but yes, that would indeed make it more exciting to watch.

The circuits were not as smooth, and again, I suspect that the wheelbase of today’s cars probably helps with the stability as well.

I never claimed to be a fan of the ‘93 Williams, if that’s the car you mean.

Also, the wheelbase (or rather the overall size of the cars) and the super smooth track surfaces are just two of the things I don’t like. Then there’s DRS, the engine sounds, and I think there’s way too much radio communication.

If I could make three rule changes, I would shorten the maximum wheelbase by at least 400 mm, get rid of DRS and prohibit all radio communication.

My brothers grand idea is to limit the amount of electronic sensors on the cars.
So let’s say that the FIA implements however many mandatory/control parts (like the ECU, and fuel flow sensors, etc), which require 50 sensors. The rule would then be that each car may only have 80 sensors (I’m just throwing numbers out there), inclusive of the 50 mandatory from the FIA

 

[Strittan]

So:
Make it unsafer/less space for a fuel tank.
Make the races boring. DRS works very well because it's a visible overtaking aid, not something nobody can understand or see from a spectator like Push-to-Pass.
A stupid idea in every way imaginable.

Overtaking aid, exactly. And you’re talking about stupid, lmao. I’m done.

 

[Scaff]

I don’t know how you’d make something easy look tricky, but yes, that would indeed make it more exciting to watch.

So you want spectacle, not skill.

The circuits were not as smooth, and again,

Some of them still have the same elevation changes and bumps they have always had, Monaco, in particular, is full of bumps, doesn't make for a great race

I suspect that the wheelbase of today’s cars probably helps with the stability as well.

It does, but active suspension helped a great deal more.

I never claimed to be a fan of the ‘93 Williams, if that’s the car you mean.

I didn't say you were, but it is very illustrative of how the past is not always as great as it may seem. Ditto the harder to drive cars of the past with Traction Control and ABS

Also, the wheelbase (or rather the overall size of the cars) and the super smooth track surfaces are just two of the things I don’t like.

So bring back refueling and the mess of racing that made and given the number of other classes of racing that compete on many of the same 'super smooth' circuits and I'm not quite sure that's the golden bullet you think it is.

Then there’s DRS, the engine sounds, and I think there’s way too much radio communication.

If I could make three rule changes, I would shorten the maximum wheelbase by at least 400 mm, get rid of DRS and prohibit all radio communication.

The first two would not guarantee racing that is 'exciting' enough to meet your standards, and the last would reduce safety.

 

[Strittan]

So you want spectacle, not skill.

I want both. Again, I’m not sure how you’d make something that is easy to appear tricky.

Some of them still have the same elevation changes and bumps they have always had, Monaco, in particular, is full of bumps, doesn't make for a great race

Monaco I’m sure is a terrible race these days, with the huge footprint of today’s cars.

It does, but active suspension helped a great deal more.

Yes, and it was outlawed the following season because of that.

I didn't say you were, but it is very illustrative of how the past is not always as great as it may seem. Ditto the harder to drive cars of the past with Traction Control and ABS

Again, these things were outlawed for a reason, but I’m just now starting to wonder why actually, as safety seems to be the ultimate goal.

So bring back refueling and the mess of racing that made and given the number of other classes of racing that compete on many of the same 'super smooth' circuits and I'm not quite sure that's the golden bullet you think it is.

I don’t have an answer to these problems, I’ll gladly admit. I just know that, in my opinion, the cars are ridiculously big, and that this proved to be a more unpopular opinion than I’d ever imagine.

The first two would not guarantee racing that is 'exciting' enough to meet your standards, and the last would reduce safety.

If safety is all we’re going for, then why not just go virtual already? Much better for the environment as well, and a million times cheaper. Verstappen is already onboard.

 

[Liquid]

I would agree that less radio communication would be a good thing. Or at least, less broadcasted radio communication.

 

[Strittan]

I would agree that less radio communication would be a good thing. Or at least, less broadcasted radio communication.

My reason would simply be that I want to leave more of the decision-making to the drivers. It’s a drivers’ championship after all, right? This why I’m not a fan of DRS as well. Pushing a button that makes you overtake on a straightaway is not driving, it’s just Mario Kart.

 

[Jimlaad43]

The word "Straightaway" is one of the worst words to describe a part of a race track I have ever heard.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Is there a proper way? I don't see anything wrong with that label. I know "stretch" is another that just came to mind but it's just interchangeable no?

 

[Liquid]

It's simply... a straight.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Is there a proper way? I don't see anything wrong with that label. I know "stretch" is another that just came to mind but it's just interchangeable no?

It's a Straight. The "away" part is both redundant and also not something that adds more description to it. What part of a non-bendy piece of road is "away"? It's a horrible word that adds more detail for no reason whatsoever.

 

[Strittan]

The word "Straightaway" is one of the worst words to describe a part of a race track I have ever heard.

What’s this? Running out of reasons to bash at me, are you?

Turns out I’m not wrong:

 

[Jimlaad43]

What’s this? Running out of reasons to bash at me, are you?

No, you said you didn't care about drivers lives, so all respect I had went at that point.

My point about Straightaway was not part of the previous conversation, just a completely new point.

 

[Downhill Dino]

It's a Straight. The "away" part is both redundant and also not something that adds more description to it. What part of a non-bendy piece of road is "away"? It's a horrible word that adds more detail for no reason whatsoever.

It takes you away from corners?

 

[MaxAttack]

What’s this? Running out of reasons to bash at me, are you?

Turns out I’m not wrong:
View attachment 1116501

I'm pretty sure this is a clear cut case of American Vs British English.

Which, of course, by order of precedence, means the Americans are wrong, and one should just say straight. However I invoke the first law of American English here which states that where Americans are wrong, they will continue to be wrong with alarming consistency.

See also; aluminium, couldn't care less, hold the fort, etc

 

[Strittan]

No, you said you didn't care about drivers lives, so all respect I had went at that point.

Did I really? When? Where?

Just because I think that some element of danger adds to the excitement of a sport doesn’t mean I want people to die.

Ever heard of Alex Honnold? He’s a free solo climber, and one of my heroes. What he does is crazy dangerous, and watching him climb is incredibly exciting in my opinion, but I absolutely do not want him to die, or even get hurt.

Edit: Also, be honest. Your respect went as soon as I compared your beloved modern F1 cars to a 60’s limousine, and concluded that the limousine is relatively small, didn’t it?

 

[mwoodski]

I'm pretty sure this is a clear cut case of American Vs British English.

Which, of course, by order of precedence, means the Americans are wrong, and one should just say straight. However I invoke the first law of American English here which states that where Americans are wrong, they will continue to be wrong with alarming consistency.

See also; aluminium, couldn't care less, hold the fort, etc

Aluminum and aluminium are spelled different, hence the pronunciation difference.

One is the thirteenth element on the periodic table, and the other is a change to make it sound classier.

 

[Scaff]

I want both. Again, I’m not sure how you’d make something that is easy to appear tricky.

Nope, you expressed a preference for spectacle over talent. You said that if it looked easy even if it wasn't then it doesn't appeal to you.

Monaco I’m sure is a terrible race these days, with the huge footprint of today’s cars.

Monaco has been terrible, outside of qualifying and non-racing drama for over 40 years.

Yes, and it was outlawed the following season because of that.

That doesn't change the fact that older cars have often been easier to drive than the current generation.

Again, these things were outlawed for a reason, but I’m just now starting to wonder why actually, as safety seems to be the ultimate goal.

Because safety has been achieved in other ways, one of which is longer cars with greater crash structures.

I don’t have an answer to these problems, I’ll gladly admit. I just know that, in my opinion, the cars are ridiculously big, and that this proved to be a more unpopular opinion than I’d ever imagine.

Indeed, because reducing the wheelbase isn't the solution you seem to believe it is.

If safety is all we’re going for, then why not just go virtual already? Much better for the environment as well, and a million times cheaper. Verstappen is already onboard.

It's not, and we don't need a strawman argument.

My reason would simply be that I want to leave more of the decision-making to the drivers.

we already have that, and even if you want more it can be done without banning all radio communication. Plenty of series already manage the balance perfectly well.

It’s a drivers’ championship after all, right?

No, it's a drivers and manufacturers championship.

This why I’m not a fan of DRS as well. Pushing a button that makes you overtake on a straightaway is not driving, it’s just Mario Kart.

Yep, because that's all it takes!

 

[Strittan]

Nope, you expressed a preference for spectacle over talent. You said that if it looked easy even if it wasn't then it doesn't appeal to you.

Whatever. Can you please explain how you make something that is easy look difficult though, pretty please?

Monaco has been terrible, outside of qualifying and non-racing drama for over 40 years.

I disagree.

That doesn't change the fact that older cars have often been easier to drive than the current generation.

And that doesn’t change the fact that I prefer older cars to the ones of today.

Because safety has been achieved in other ways, one of which is longer cars with greater crash structures.

Which I don’t like.

Indeed, because reducing the wheelbase isn't the solution you seem to believe it is.

At least it would make the cars look better, and completely change the handling characteristics.

It's not, and we don't need a strawman argument.

Why not? Completely safe and completely environmentally friendly. What more can you ask for?

we already have that, and even if you want more it can be done without banning all radio communication. Plenty of series already manage the balance perfectly well.

Ok, whatever you say.

No, it's a drivers and manufacturers championship.

Great, so reintroducing refuelling would not be the end of the world after all.

Yep, because that's all it takes!

No, but why do we need it? Maybe because aero development has gone too far, and DRS is a way to compensate for that.

You know what? Let me take back everything I’ve said and just say this instead. I think F1 cars today are huge, hideous things that sounds terrible, with a stupid button no less, that makes it easier to overtake at certain parts of a circuit, period.

 

[Scaff]

Whatever. Can you please explain how you make something that is easy look difficult though, pretty please?

I didn't claim I could, I asked the question to understand what your real preferences are.

I disagree.

We know, that doesn't mean you've presented a convincing argument as to why

And that doesn’t change the fact that I prefer older cars to the ones of today.

We know, that doesn't mean you've presented a convincing argument as to why

Which I don’t like.

We know, that doesn't mean you've presented a convincing argument as to why

At least it would make the cars look better, and completely change the handling characteristics.

Subjective at best on the first point and not necessarily for the better for the second point. Following '93 and the ban on active suspension and all driver aids the resulting cars were twitchy messes that were arguably a factor in the deaths of two drivers and a massive increase in accidents, one of the drivers who lost their lives noted:

"Ayrton Senna was among several observers who said that, with such features removed but no attempt to curtail the speed of the cars, 1994 would be "a season with a lot of accidents"; ironically, Senna had been a proponent of the ban on electronic driver aids."

Completely changing handling characteristics simply to make cars harder to drive, but more exciting for the public is not a morally valid move. The current crop of WRC cars get this right in my view, they are aero-dependent but are faster and more agile than any WRC cars before, still demand an insane degree of skill, but are not the rolling deathtraps that Group B was, despite being many seconds a mile quicker than group B.

Why not? Completely safe and completely environmentally friendly. What more can you ask for?

Because no one has asked for that, as such I suggest you stop inferring they have.

Ok, whatever you say.

No, not because I say so. what other series have suffered by allowing radio communication?

Great, so reintroducing refuelling would not be the end of the world after all.

Strawman, again.

No, but why do we need it? Maybe because aero development has gone too far, and DRS is a way to compensate for that.

It is indeed, but these things are always a balance and always have been in F1, it's been near half a century since that particular balance act hasn't needed to be done and certain teams haven't dominated the pack. Having a split field with a small number of teams at the head, and the rest split into the mid and back is nothing new, and I think a significant amount of rose-tint is being applied to your memory of the past.

You know what? Let me take back everything I’ve said and just say this instead. I think F1 cars today are huge, hideous things that sounds terrible, with a stupid button no less, that makes it easier to overtake at certain parts of a circuit, period.

No problem at all, some will agree with you on some points and some will disagree with you on some points.