Update 1.16 Physics Changes

[Johnnypenso]

There is some talk of physics changes in the 1.16 update manifesting itself in in dramatic and overwhelming changes to how the cars drive, along these lines:

Overall handling
Improved weight transfer
Visual cues in how the car hood and boot move under braking/acceleration
Easier to feel the "weight" of a car
Changes to grip, especially turn in grip
More

What do you think? Have you driven your favourite cars on your favourite tracks and noticed an indisputable difference? How have lap times been affected? Can physics have dramatic changes without a dramatic change in lap times?

Do make an effort to stay on topic. It's not hard to find the Uncodumented Changes thread or the Update Discussion thread or the Whinging and Crying thread, so let's keep this one focused only on the physics.

Note also, be prepared to back up your position in some way and have it challenged, that is the nature of a discussion, and be as specific as possible, especially with the car/track/tire/tune combinations. Lap time/Motec data would be useful, not mandatory of course, but as a minimum be prepared to suggest certain car/track combinations that best support your position.

As a general rule of thumb, don't use Midfield as your test bed for physics changes. New track, new characteristics, new feel, new road surface, cambered corners etc. If you want to talk about physics changes, you should be comparing the same car/track combinations you are familiar with from before the update.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Weight is more of a factor now IMO. Which is a good thing if you like/know how to use it to get around.

Midfield with the 2014 Nismo, the weight was clearly a problem, destroying front outside tire (even more), and generally making it hard to swing the beast around cause of the suspension moving and having trouble coping with the weight. But with modded and hard setup 458/NSX I was just 4wheel inertia drifting into every corner I'd like to do so. I can finally drift naturally, scandinavian flick and generally forget there's an eBrake.

It's much less of a "computer driving" experience of "brake, turn, gas". It feels much more real now.

I'd say all lap times need a reset cause you're not ever gonna be doing the same driving as you were before.

 

[NCRthree]

For the last month and a half I've been only driving lower powered stock street cars on CH's offline. No aids. A couple days before the update I was running a Scion FRS at Tsukuba. The first combo I used after updating was this. I noticed nothing different, my lap times were exactly the same. I was really trying to pay attention to the car's dynamics but it felt the same to me. A BMW 2002 felt the same too.

I'm usually pretty sensitive to any new physics changes so I was surprised that it felt the same to me. I always drive in a "realistic" manner, no flicking or overdriving the physics engine so that may be the reason.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Weight is more of a factor now IMO. Which is a good thing if you like/know how to use it to get around.

Midfield with the 2014 Nismo, the weight was clearly a problem, destroying front outside tire (even more), and generally making it hard to swing the beast around cause of the suspension moving and having trouble coping with the weight. But with modded and hard setup 458/NSX I was just 4wheel inertia drifting into every corner I'd like to do so. I can finally drift naturally, scandinavian flick and generally forget there's an eBrake.

It's much less of a "computer driving" experience of "brake, turn, gas". It feels much more real now.

I'd say all lap times need a reset cause you're not ever gonna be doing the same driving as you were before.

Not sure how your experience of driving on a brand new track is relevant to physics changes since you can't compare the feel of Midfield to it's pre-1.16 counterpart. Have you driven any other tracks to compare these same cars with their pre-1.16 feel?

For the last month and a half I've been only driving lower powered stock street cars on CH's offline. No aids. A couple days before the update I was running a Scion FRS at Tsukuba. The first combo I used after updating was this. I noticed nothing different, my lap times were exactly the same. I was really trying to pay attention to the car's dynamics but it felt the same to me. A BMW 2002 felt the same too.

I'm usually pretty sensitive to any new physics changes so I was surprised that it felt the same to me. I always drive in a "realistic" manner, no flicking or overdriving the physics engine so that may be the reason.

Were you able to compare laptimes?

 

[JoaoSilva]

i was driving the Mazda LM55 yesterday and it felt a bit "heavier" than usual , in a good way , and i always drive the same way , so i don't think it's a placebo .

I strongly believe PD made some tweaks to the physics.

 

[Johnnypenso]

i was driving the Mazda LM55 yesterday and it felt a bit "heavier" than usual , in a good way , and i always drive the same way , so i don't think it's a placebo .

I strongly believe PD made some tweaks to the physics.

"Heavier" could mean a lot of things. You mean the wheel felt heavier to turn? Or the car felt heavier in it's responsiveness meaning it had more momentum, less braking ability and acceleration, slower turn in etc.? Or heavier in terms of weight transfer and the weight pitching back and forth under braking/acceleration/lateral movement? Or something else?

 

[JoaoSilva]

"Heavier" could mean a lot of things. You mean the wheel felt heavier to turn? Or the car felt heavier in it's responsiveness meaning it had more momentum, less braking ability and acceleration, slower turn in etc.? Or heavier in terms of weight transfer and the weight pitching back and forth under braking/acceleration/lateral movement? Or something else?

Weigh transfering and the car (Mazda LM55) carried a lot of momentum around the corners , i think that's why it felt heavier .

Also in turn 1 of Midfield when i braked and turned with the LM55 the tail slided , it happened quite a few time on that corner.

Also people are saying the cockpit camera shakes a bit more now , but i haven't used cockpit view yesterday so i can't say it for myself.

Today i'm gonna run some more laps on the LM55 to try and clear any doubts i have.

 

[diegorborges]

I was driving my BMW M4, 550pp tune... not a very dedicated racer, it's one of my favorite cars for "just driving"... what I've noticed is that the weight moves "more quickly", I've had to be more careful during braking or the front of the car would just go straight in some places... a bit more of what I expected, as the M4 is a well balanced car.

Similar effect noticed yesterday with the Ruf RGT.

Then I drove my 550pp tuned Lotus Elise '11 for around 50 laps and it felt perfect. Did some laps on the Ferrari 430 Scuderia too... very balanced in general, a bit less twitchy for an MR car. Of course it's a sea of difference between MR cars such as the Elise and F430 and a BMW M4, or Ruf RGT. But It's like you can really feel the weight a bit more...

It's hard to explain, but if the weight of the cars was a ball inside of them, I could say this "ball of weight" moves in a quicker, more free way.

 

[nissman]

I think what also improved is the feel of bumps on the road. You can feel much more slight shaking of the wheel when going through bumps in Midfield.

Overall the physics have improved I think, good job by PD with this update.

 

[NCRthree]

Yes, Johnny. My lap times at Tsukuba were exactly the same. No tuning whatsoever either.

I drive without ABS so the cars are always more free feeling anyway.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Weigh transfering and the car (Mazda LM55) carried a lot of momentum around the corners , i think that's why it felt heavier .

Also in turn 1 of Midfield when i braked and turned with the LM55 the tail slided , it happened quite a few time on that corner.

Also people are saying the cockpit camera shakes a bit more now , but i haven't used cockpit view yesterday so i can't say it for myself.

Today i'm gonna run some more laps on the LM55 to try and clear any doubts i have.

Again, only driving on Midfield kind of negates any comments about changes in physics as it's a brand new track with it's very own characteristics.

I think what also improved is the feel of bumps on the road. You can feel much more slight shaking of the wheel when going through bumps in Midfield.

Overall the physics have improved I think, good job by PD with this update.

See above. Midfield is new so there's no way to know what those same bumps would have felt like before the update and therefore no way to know if they have changed in any way. It could simply be that PD has designed the track to be more bumpy from the get go as has been widely reported, to impart more subtle FFB effects to the wheel while driving, to aid immersion.

I was driving my BMW M4, 550pp tune... not a very dedicated racer, it's one of my favorite cars for "just driving"... what I've noticed is that the weight moves "more quickly", I've had to be more careful during braking or the front of the car would just go straight in some places... a bit more of what I expected, as the M4 is a well balanced car.

Similar effect noticed yesterday with the Ruf RGT.

Then I drove my 550pp tuned Lotus Elise '11 for around 50 laps and it felt perfect. Did some laps on the Ferrari 430 Scuderia too... very balanced in general, a bit less twitchy for an MR car. Of course it's a sea of difference between MR cars such as the Elise and F430 and a BMW M4, or Ruf RGT. But It's like you can really feel the weight a bit more...

It's hard to explain, but if the weight of the cars was a ball inside of them, I could say this "ball of weight" moves in a quicker, more free way.

Was this on the same track you drove these cars on prior to the update?

 

[JoaoSilva]

Again, only driving on Midfield kind of negates any comments about changes in physics as it's a brand new track with it's very own characteristics.

I didn't only drive at Midfield .

 

[Johnnypenso]

I didn't only drive at Midfield .

You only mentioned Midfield in your response. Be more specific with your car/track combinations.

 

[diegorborges]

Again, only driving on Midfield kind of negates any comments about changes in physics as it's a brand new track with it's very own characteristics.

See above. Midfield is new so there's no way to know what those same bumps would have felt like before the update and therefore no way to know if they have changed in any way. It could simply be that PD has designed the track to be more bumpy from the get go as has been widely reported, to impart more subtle FFB effects to the wheel while driving, to aid immersion.

Was this on the same track you drove these cars on prior to the update?

Hmm, the Elise and M4 I drove @ the Nurburgring also, before the update.

The rest was all at Midfield. So those doesn't matter.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hmm, the Elise and M4 I drove @ the Nurburgring also, before the update.

The rest was all at Midfield. So those doesn't matter.

Midfield shouldn't even be in the discussion IMO. You have no idea how a car would have felt on Midfield prior to the update, so how can one comment on changes, when there are no changes at Midfield? Just adding a little camber to corners as Midfield does, can completely change how a car feels, we have no idea of the pre-programmed grip parameters of the track, but regardless, without driving on MF prior to the update, no one knows if the feel of MF is different or the same.

The OP is updated concerning Midfield.

 

[azidahaka]

First of all times are the same for me. I race in the gt300 endurance serie and my weapon of choice is the is350.

I usually train between 4-6 hours a week on the car + 90 mins race on monday. I have different chassys for i got past 10000kms in it.

This said it seems that the way wheel reacts is better, like you can feel much better rear suspensions damping and extension giving more feel of weight transfer and easier control.

If the change is just in Wheel feeling or if they did touch the physics i can't tell, but something is different and for the better!

 

[VBR]

I've done about 2,000 miles on The Ring 24 Hour in my trusty stock KTM Street, & know that car/track combo like the back of my hand. Gonna test & report back soon.


👍

 

[hornet_burnout]

Midfield is just another track, where you can also feel and see these changes, like in any other.

But yes, I tested elsewhere and with well known cars. It's different!

Can't wait to do autumn ring mini in an MR2 or Miata!

 

[Johnnypenso]

First of all times are the same for me. I race in the gt300 endurance serie and my weapon of choice is the is350.

I usually train between 4-6 hours a week on the car + 90 mins race on monday. I have different chassys for i got past 10000kms in it.

This said it seems that the way wheel reacts is better, like you can feel much better rear suspensions damping and extension giving more feel of weight transfer and easier control.

If the change is just in Wheel feeling or if they did touch the physics i can't tell, but something is different and for the better!

If control is easier, how does it not affect lap times? Is it possible that your actual control of the vehicle is the same which would lead to similar lap times, and weight transfer is the same, but the FFB has been fundamentally altered to give you the feeling of weight transfer, suspension loading etc. and your resulting feeling of control is improved with the same physics?

In other words the physics are the same, but how you feel the physics, weight transfer/control etc. through the wheel is improved? A change to FFB would seem much more likely and easier than a change to the entire physics model of the game and would explain why the game feels different, but the lap times are the same.

 

[JoaoSilva]

You only mentioned Midfield in your response. Be more specific with your car/track combinations.

Well , i've driven a lot of cars (but mainly the LM55) and in 5 different tracks . I obviously wouldn't judge the changes based only on Midfield , i tried the Nurburgring and Tsukuba and a few others and the weight transfering / momentum changed , i'm 95% sure of it atleast. I tried doing zig-zags in SSRX with the LM55 to see if there was any change , and the car felt a bit heavier while turning than usual , it felt good.

If there was indeed a change , it was for the better , kudos to PD 👍

 

[nissman]

See above. Midfield is new so there's no way to know what those same bumps would have felt like before the update and therefore no way to know if they have changed in any way. It could simply be that PD has designed the track to be more bumpy from the get go as has been widely reported, to impart more subtle FFB effects to the wheel while driving, to aid immersion.

I guees I have to do a lap around the Nordschleife.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well , i've driven a lot of cars (but mainly the LM55) and in 5 different tracks . I obviously wouldn't judge the changes based only on Midfield , i tried the Nurburgring and Tsukuba and a few others and the weight transfering / momentum changed , i'm 95% sure of it atleast. I tried doing zig-zags in SSRX with the LM55 to see if there was any change , and the car felt a bit heavier while turning than usual , it felt good.

If there was indeed a change , it was for the better , kudos to PD 👍

Feeling heavier while turning is more than likely a FFB change, is it not? Or is it only heavier under heavy braking, but lighter on corner exit, which could be a FFB effect of altered weight transfer?

If weight transfer has changed in the physics model then you should notice differences in lap times I would think and naturally understeery cars like FF's and 4wd's should have better turn in bite and less entry understeer, likely resulting in better lap times in many cases due to better entry and mid-corner front end grip allowing quicker rotation into position for an early exit. Conversely, I would think it would have a significant effect on the feel of very oversteery cars like the Stratos, Diablo, Cizeta etc. Should also have a significant effect on braking without ABS with more weight transferring to the front under heavy braking.

 

[JoaoSilva]

Feeling heavier while turning is more than likely a FFB change, is it not? Or is it only heavier under heavy braking, but lighter on corner exit, which could be a FFB effect of altered weight transfer?

If weight transfer has changed in the physics model then you should notice differences in lap times I would think and naturally understeery cars like FF's and 4wd's should have better turn in bite and less entry understeer, likely resulting in better lap times in many cases due to better entry and mid-corner front end grip allowing quicker rotation into position for an early exit. Should also have a significant effect on braking without ABS with more weight transferring to the front under heavy braking.

Quite honestly , i didn't test lap times , i was just testing te feel of it . I don't think i'm consistent enough to test laptimes.

And actually when i first played GT6 1.16 i felt some differences right away and it wasn't because of people on the forums saying physics changed because i only checked the forums after i stopped playing , some people are saying it's a placebo , well i don't think so honestly.

 

[brian wolf]

If I get time this weekend, I`ll re-run the cars I have replay data of, from the latest FITT challenge. GT300s at Tsukuba, not Midfield. 👍

 

[VBR]

I've done about 2,000 miles on The Ring 24 Hour in my trusty stock KTM Street, & know that car/track combo like the back of my hand. Gonna test & report back soon.

I can confirm that there has been a change. Whether that's a change due to a physics update, or an FFB update, or both - I'm not sure.

What's changed? The lateral weight shift effects are now much more pronounced. This can be felt more when you oversteer, as the force pulling the wheel in the opposite direction is much stronger now. The result is that you can feel oversteer more, & can thus correct it easier. There is more weight when you are turning, even in cars that have power steering. Also, when hitting the kerbs it all feel a little bit more meatier.

When I had the privilege of driving a Caterham 7 Superlight at a track day once, I noted just how much force you feel through the wheel when the back end steps out. It was never nearly enough in Gran Turismo, although it was there, just about. Now it feels much more realistic, & wheel users should find themselves spinning out less & able to catch more slides.

However, there is still no longitudinal weight shift present at all. You should feel the wheel go light under throttle from a standing start, it go heavier under engine breaking (lift off), & get heavier under braking. Sadly, GT doesn't model any of this. That said, it does model the changes regarding how easy it is to steer the faster you go. At a dead stop it is heavy (although nowhere near enough compared to reality), under 50kph it is heavy, & then gets progressively lighter the faster you go.

The conclusion? FFB feels much better in the 1.16 update, this stronger lateral weight shift is something I've wanted since I started using an FFB wheel, & I am very happy now.

Incidentally, when I tried Project CARS on the stock FFB settings, I was unable to feel any real lateral weight shift upon oversteer. Hopefully this can be turned up in some menu somewhere.

 

[grind mouse]

my thought about the physics's changes it's that happening everytime that they give us a new car, because feels different than the last one, i dont have a time list for make a comparision but i will check a try with amuse titan r1 s2000(i drive it in every updates and still the same handling) , that is an overturned car in every curve ( with rs tyres expecially) on nurburgring.
The mazda vgt lose her rear in the hard braking, yes ,but since its release:tup:
(ds3 player)
ok i try it first curve on nordschleife , the same stunt car ,roof in the ground.
The tyres grip, seems upgraded from the 1.15,because the car now overturned (two wheels turn) very quickly.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I have driven the RUF Yellowbird replica for more than 300 miles, I also have 2 other Yellowbird build that has at least 300 miles each. Spent most of the time testing and tuning at Tsukuba and Spa. The replica that I have been working on recently is Sport Auto 1988 version, with 1200+kg and 3 different distribution, 40/60 ; 32/68 and 37/63. The 32/68 and 37/63 uses exact same setup - The setup used in both replay : 38/62 distribution version, 1200+kg, 469PS, high lock LSD and corrected gearing. The tire is Comfort Medium to target real life lap record at 1:06.12 ( Best Motoring ) at Tsukuba.

I provided 2 best lap replay, both done on 1st lap. The 1.15 best lap was done about a week ago, 1:05.829, while the 1.16 was done recently with 1:05.808

What I can tell from driving the RUF, it has better braking reaction from the chassis ( weight being transferred ) - easily felt from the 1s turn entry and both hairpin and overall subtle difference in holding lateral load ( this can be felt on the left curve after the Dunlop esses and the last corner ). Back in 1.15 the RUF has some subtle braking traits that can easily overload/lock the front tires when nearing the apex so I have to be extra careful when modulating the brakes, in 1.16 it's tamer/easier to modulate at Tsukuba. While holding the line on the left curve after the Dunlop and last corner was more hairy back in 1.15, the traction/grip limit is the same however.

The RUF tune/setup hasn't been changed at all ( except for slight changes in gearing ), including same BB and similar driving pace. Both best lap replay should be able to be exported to Motec file from within GT6 if anyone wishes to do more comprehensive analysis.

Both are done without any assist ( no ABS )

EDIT : Damn, just had a look at my replay data to make sure, the 1.15 replay has slightly different gearing ( 1st gear, 3rd gear and final ) The 1.15 has 4.000 final and 1.16 has 3.777, 3rd gear on 1.15 is 1.120, while 1.16 is 1.115 ( 0.005 difference )

Since 1st gear is not used on the lap, it doesn't have any effect, and 3rd is very small, while the lower final only allows slightly higher speed on redline, but at Tsukuba the performance difference is not much. I tinkered a bit the gearing before updating to 1.16

 

[Raven_WET01]

So an improvement of 21 thousandths of a second at a course that emphasizes handling.

 

[JoaoSilva]

So an improvement of 21 thousandths of a second at a course that emphasizes handling.

Just because handling feels better doesn't mean it's going to be faster ...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The lap time was never a real concern for me, it just happen to be quicker a bit