Views on this move

[MaxAttack]

It's a gorgeous bit of head gamery, well measured up and executed. Were it not for the oblivious/thoroughly spooked lead driver making contact nothing about the pass would look dodgy.

Claiming space is as big a part of racing as leaving enough for your opponent. The French driver became completely occupied with the car close behind instead of simply driving thru the corner and that's exactly what a good bit of positioning and dummying is supposed to accomplish.

 

[Pigems]

Yes, it does, in racing. Now this being a video game...
If you look where those cars are, relative to the shadow, you can see just how blatant of a dive it is.

Your not taking into account all the variables though, the Porsche driver could have been on hard tires while the Ferrari was on Softs, we just don’t know this. The Porsche should have held his inside line, the moment he moved over(very late at that), he opened up the inside to a move, and then he turned in on a car that was beside him.

 

[Furinkazen]

Fair move, if rather aggressive. Came from a mile back? Yes. However you were up the inside, you had the corner and you also had the car stopped and would not have hit him or vastly compromised your own line. The Porsche had no awareness and the contact was his fault (accidental as it may have been).

Some people here have clearly never watched real racing or have an understanding of it.

 

[Ashthebash]

Your not taking into account all the variables though, the Porsche driver could have been on hard tires while the Ferrari was on Softs, we just don’t know this. The Porsche should have held his inside line, the moment he moved over(very late at that), he opened up the inside to a move, and then he turned in on a car that was beside him.

It was me on softs vs mediums, equally worn, just to clear that up!

Fair move, if rather aggressive. Came from a mile back? Yes. However you were up the inside, you had the corner and you also had the car stopped and would not have hit him or vastly compromised your own line. The Porsche had no awareness and the contact was his fault (accidental as it may have been).

Some people here have clearly never watched real racing or have an understanding of it.

Totally accept it was aggressive - and risky! Also agree that the contact was probably accidental

 

[RacingGrandpa]

My view? The only one doing wrong is the Porsche not being spacial aware. First he completely miss that he opened up the door, then he completely miss that there is a car on the inside. Had he payed attention and the grip level had been even he could have gotten a better run to the next corner and retained his position down the straight.
Was it a risky move? Yes, especially in a game where many people doesn't use radar and are in a view with no mirrors.
But there was nothing dirty about it.

The yellow racing line is also theoretical, or it would change dynamical according to your car class, your speed and your moves.
It's in many cases a fast line, but not always the fastest and it definitely not something you can use to determine right or wrong.

 

[DriveSpark]

There is no issue with the move, the leading car knew he was vulnerable as he tried to cover you off but then didn't keep a check on where you were - although to be fair on a game you lose so much peripheral vision it might have been difficult to tell just how close you were.

This chat about following the racing line is nuts, if you watch motorsport most overtakes are not done on the racing line anyway, for example you take a shalow line in (i.e. up the inside) or a late apex to try and gain speed on exit etc. You can't pass by doing the same thing as the guy in front.

 

[ASH32]

I think everything must have been covered in this thread now. I bet I've done similar to this many times here, although braking moves are not normally my favourite, I much prefer it when people keep tight on the inside and then I can cut under them on the exit when they run wide, not that you can do that much at this track.

Since this was a lobby practice race for the FIA race I hope that French driver has learned not to leave the inside wide open like that again, otherwise they'll be bombed again and again in the actual race and probably not as cleanly as that and then they will have something to be mad about.

 

[NevilleNobody]

Your not taking into account all the variables though, the Porsche driver could have been on hard tires while the Ferrari was on Softs, we just don’t know this. The Porsche should have held his inside line, the moment he moved over(very late at that), he opened up the inside to a move, and then he turned in on a car that was beside him.

No he turned in on a car that was NOT beside him until he himself was at the apex. That's the crux of this argument and is why moves like this end in tears, when the lead driver starts his though process on where to apex, OP is in another postal code.

 

[Pigems]

No he turned in on a car that was NOT beside him until he himself was at the apex. That's the crux of this argument and is why moves like this end in tears, when the lead driver starts his though process on where to apex, OP is in another postal code.

But the lead driver has to account for what the guy behind is doing, and going to do. Not to mention the lead driver moved very late to the outside going into the corner, cutting right in front of a car that was about to hit the brakes. Either way, the Ferrari was safely along side at apex, at that point you can’t just turn into a car that’s beside you, period.

 

[ASH32]

Not to mention the lead driver moved very late to the outside going into the corner, cutting right in front of a car that was about to hit the brakes.

Happens all the time at this corner, it's predictable and that's how I know I'll have done the same (similar) as in the OP many times, well once I go used to people doing this and stopped running into the back of them when they did it.

 

[Groundfish]

Your not taking into account all the variables though, the Porsche driver could have been on hard tires while the Ferrari was on Softs, we just don’t know this. The Porsche should have held his inside line, the moment he moved over(very late at that), he opened up the inside to a move, and then he turned in on a car that was beside him.

Yes, tires can be worn but that doesn’t change the fact that at turn in Ash was way behind the other driver. Or imo doesn’t change corner rights.
Often in F1 overtakes posted you have that issue of tires and cars being in very different states. People don’t take that into account when giving examples but looking at the Ricardo overtakes posted he’s got alongside well alongside by the turn in point.
I mean you yourself posted a while back in an FIA at Gardens reverse at the right hand uphill hairpin where a guy filled in tha gap on the inside and hit you and you were rightfully pissed because he never got alongside before turn in. To me it’s the exact same issue here in a different corner, that’s all I’m saying.
In this case the guy ahead returned towards the racing line because Ash was too far back to make any reasonable move.

Also to those saying cover the inside, yes, cover it, if you are under attack and the car behind is close, but if they are 3/4 of a second behind there’s no need.
And, if you are racing someone who is going to send it from another zip code it’s going to cause big problems and people are going to get pissed off, there’s going to be contact etc.

Just in case anyone’s not aware, if you get divebombed like this in FIA you can cut turn two big time and the game won’t penalize you most times. I’m talking like drive onto the green basically skipping the corner.

No he turned in on a car that was NOT beside him until he himself was at the apex. That's the crux of this argument and is why moves like this end in tears, when the lead driver starts his though process on where to apex, OP is in another postal code.

Yep. It’s not alongside before braking as the last few posters have put up its the turn in. You gotta have position by that turn in, and to do it right, taking an inside, you stay right next to the outside car, and blend back onto the racing line, this keeps them from having any option except falling in behind.

 

[Pigems]

But on different compounds, one can will be able to brake much later than the other. If I can brake 30m later than the car ahead, I’m not necessarily going to be beside you when you hit the brakes, but by the time I hit the brakes I might be, or by the time I finally release my braking. It’s not a black and white situation where only one set of rigid unbendable rules or guidelines can cover the way a corner should go.

 

[MaxAttack]

In this case the guy ahead returned towards the racing line because Ash was too far back to make any reasonable move.

I don't think this is the case. Ash made the corner, more than made it, drove through it nicely and the move can be demonstrated to be reasonable because barring contact Ash would have made the pass and he didn't initiate the contact.

The only way the move became reasonable is because the lead car fought too hard and let Ash in with the weave. If he had just stayed on the high line he might have kept the place. If he had committed to defending he might have forced Ash to back out. But he was indecisive due to the car close pressuring him, which is why this is not just a totally OK move, it's a GREAT overtake.

 

[Furinkazen]

Yes, tires can be worn but that doesn’t change the fact that at turn in Ash was way behind the other driver. Or imo doesn’t change corner rights.
Often in F1 overtakes posted you have that issue of tires and cars being in very different states. People don’t take that into account when giving examples but looking at the Ricardo overtakes posted he’s got alongside well alongside by the turn in point.
I mean you yourself posted a while back in an FIA at Gardens reverse at the right hand uphill hairpin where a guy filled in tha gap on the inside and hit you and you were rightfully pissed because he never got alongside before turn in. To me it’s the exact same issue here in a different corner, that’s all I’m saying.
In this case the guy ahead returned towards the racing line because Ash was too far back to make any reasonable move.

Also to those saying cover the inside, yes, cover it, if you are under attack and the car behind is close, but if they are 3/4 of a second behind there’s no need.
And, if you are racing someone who is going to send it from another zip code it’s going to cause big problems and people are going to get pissed off, there’s going to be contact etc.

Just in case anyone’s not aware, if you get divebombed like this in FIA you can cut turn two big time and the game won’t penalize you most times. I’m talking like drive onto the green basically skipping the corner.







Yep. It’s not alongside before braking as the last few posters have put up its the turn in. You gotta have position by that turn in, and to do it right, taking an inside, you stay right next to the outside car, and blend back onto the racing line, this keeps them from having any option except falling in behind.

He executed the move and had the corner without contact and without running into the other driver. The Porsche initiated the contact.

 

[Groundfish]

But on different compounds, one can will be able to brake much later than the other. If I can brake 30m later than the car ahead, I’m not necessarily going to be beside you when you hit the brakes, but by the time I hit the brakes I might be, or by the time I finally release my braking.

As long as you have gotten alongside by the turn in point all is good. At the turn in point Ash front bumper wasnt even to the rear of the Porsche! He didn’t have position!
It’s this...Look at the image below.
Ash is behind and takes the diameter instead of the circumference. I showed the stills. It’s not even up for debate where he was.

Ash would have made the pass and he didn't initiate the contact.

Of course he did by choosing to straight line to apex from half a mile back. His line choice intersected with the driver a heads line at apex and that’s wrong.

I don't think this is the case. Ash made the corner

I dunno we can’t even prove that. Imo he would have overshot but the porsche was there so he bounced off.

I’m just saying, I’ve raced Interlagos a ton, against all levels, and succeeded, and people will punt you every time for diving like that. Honestly, it’s an invalid move and people don’t like it when it happens.
Look at ASH s line. Where is he going to go? He straight lined it from almost track limits inside like the diameter of the circle below. There’s no justification for it, not tires, not he was able to stop by apex, nothing. I’m perplexed because let’s just say same situation and it was done to anyone here, there would be a thread talking about how dirty the move was.
I’m just left perplexed at this point.

Edit the other thing is, I consider myself still part of TPC, even though I haven’t made the lobbies lately, tpc is good people and when I see my teammates in sport mode I support them in the fullest even to the point of taking people out for them.
I support you @Ashthebash. But what’s right is right. I guess in this case pointing out reality is tough love?

 

[AlexWilmot]

Move was fine, before the apex at this magical turn in yellow line your front wheel is near enough to him and he should expect a move.

By the apex you're next to him and he carried on turning into you, I don't believe you would of straight lined T1 as being suggested, Porsche needed more spatial awareness especially since the Porsche knew you were behind with the "defensive" move, if you were to over shoot T1 the Porsche could of been more aware of you backed off, let you run off and carry on, but doubt you would of carried on straight

Legit Move!

 

[Pigems]

As long as you have gotten alongside by the turn in point all is good. At the turn in point Ash front bumper wasnt even to the rear of the Porsche! He didn’t have position!
It’s this...Look at the image below.
Ash is behind and takes the diameter instead of the circumference. I showed the stills. It’s not even up for debate where he was.



Of course he did by choosing to straight line to apex from half a mile back. His line choice intersected with the driver a heads line at apex and that’s wrong.



I dunno we can’t even prove that. Imo he would have overshot but the porsche was there so he bounced off.

I’m just saying, I’ve raced Interlagos a ton, against all levels, and succeeded, and people will punt you every time for diving like that. Honestly, it’s an invalid move and people don’t like it when it happens.
Look at ASH s line. Where is he going to go? He straight lined it from almost track limits inside like the diameter of the circle below. There’s no justification for it, not tires, not he was able to stop by apex, nothing. I’m perplexed because let’s just say same situation and it was done to anyone here, there would be a thread talking about how dirty the move was.
I’m just left perplexed at this point.



View attachment 995199

Edit the other thing is, I consider myself still part of TPC, even though I haven’t made the lobbies lately, tpc is good people and when I see my teammates in sport mode I support them in the fullest even to the point of taking people out for them.
I support you @Ashthebash. But what’s right is right. I guess in this case pointing out reality is tough love?

Dude, by that logic you could park your car wide going into a corrner and expect no one to ever try to go inside on you, it doesn’t work that way. The Porsche gave up the inside when he moved back to the right, opening up the move for Ash. Which he got into position without ever touching the Porsche. He’d have made the corner just fine too if the Porsche wasn’t there, that’s not even debatable. Honesty it looked like the Porsche blew his brake point on second watch, making it even more his fault. You can’t just turn in if there is a car beside you, period. You can’t take a line that wide into a corner with a car right behind you and expect them not to stuff it up the inside in a top lobby, cause the guy behind is gonna go for it every single time. The Porsche turned into a car that tricked him into getting out of position and then beat him to the apex, case closed man.

 

[Furinkazen]

As long as you have gotten alongside by the turn in point all is good. At the turn in point Ash front bumper wasnt even to the rear of the Porsche! He didn’t have position!
It’s this...Look at the image below.
Ash is behind and takes the diameter instead of the circumference. I showed the stills. It’s not even up for debate where he was.



Of course he did by choosing to straight line to apex from half a mile back. His line choice intersected with the driver a heads line at apex and that’s wrong.



I dunno we can’t even prove that. Imo he would have overshot but the porsche was there so he bounced off.

I’m just saying, I’ve raced Interlagos a ton, against all levels, and succeeded, and people will punt you every time for diving like that. Honestly, it’s an invalid move and people don’t like it when it happens.
Look at ASH s line. Where is he going to go? He straight lined it from almost track limits inside like the diameter of the circle below. There’s no justification for it, not tires, not he was able to stop by apex, nothing. I’m perplexed because let’s just say same situation and it was done to anyone here, there would be a thread talking about how dirty the move was.
I’m just left perplexed at this point.



View attachment 995199

Edit the other thing is, I consider myself still part of TPC, even though I haven’t made the lobbies lately, tpc is good people and when I see my teammates in sport mode I support them in the fullest even to the point of taking people out for them.
I support you @Ashthebash. But what’s right is right. I guess in this case pointing out reality is tough love?

He never straight lined the corner. He braked on the inside from over a car length back (which is you, know, racing), made the corner clean at the apex with an overlap that was more than just being at his rear bumper, and the Porsche turned in. What matters is that when the cars met the Ferrari had a clean overlap.

Your pixelated "circle" is irrelevant.

You clearly have no idea about racing.

But what’s right is right. I guess in this case pointing out reality is tough love?

Hint: When it's you against the world and everyone else isn't agreeing with you, more often than not it's you that's wrong.

 

[BigJimmy]

From my point of view a good overtake under braking should be about trying to make sure your opponent knows you are there and you have achieved a good overlap. In this example it came from a big lunge from way back and at no point was an overlap achieved, as you can see from the moment of impact. The Porker is ahead of the Ferrari on the way to the apex when they hit.

TAKE

• BigJimmy
• Mar 3, 2021

In the real world this would have ended both their races and a significant amount of my blame would be on the overtaker. But, as it was a lobby race in a computer game I couldn't actually give a monkeys.

 

[Furinkazen]

From my point of view a good overtake under braking should be about trying to make sure your opponent knows you are there and you have achieved a good overlap. In this example it came from a big lunge from way back and at no point was an overlap achieved, as you can see from the moment of impact. The Porker is ahead of the Ferrari on the way to the apex when they hit.

TAKE

• BigJimmy
• Mar 3, 2021

In the real world this would have ended both their races and a significant amount of my blame would be on the overtaker. But, as it was a lobby race in a computer game I couldn't actually give a monkeys.

He was however half way plus up the inside, if he'd have hit him in the rear wheel area for instance, yea Ferrari fault all day long, but in this case he had the turn. And very true last statement.

 

[Groundfish]

Dude, by that logic you could park your car wide going into a corrner and expect no one to ever try to go inside on you, it doesn’t work that way.

Well you also shouldn’t have to cover the inside when the car behind is a second back, either.
I mean if that’s the case why even race because it’s nonsense

 

[Pigems]

Well you also shouldn’t have to cover the inside when the car behind is a second back, either.
I mean if that’s the case why even race because it’s nonsense

When the guy behind you is on better tires, that 1s(which it wasn’t in this case, maybe .3 at most) is a lot less relevant though. The Porsche should have stayed inside, without question. He opens the door by moving over(possibly even moving under braking), so all bets are off at that point. It’s racing, if there is a car behind you, you can never assume you know what he’s gonna do, or that your “safe”, we all know what assuming does.

 

[BigJimmy]

He was however half way plus up the inside, if he'd have hit him in the rear wheel area for instance, yea Ferrari fault all day long, but in this case he had the turn. And very true last statement.

Perhaps Im way too nice. I ways think you should be ahead by the apex or you are pushing into a corner that wasnt yours if someone was turning into it.

 

[kilesa4568]

You clearly have no idea about racing.

That just about sums him up.

 

[AlexWilmot]

From my point of view a good overtake under braking should be about trying to make sure your opponent knows you are there and you have achieved a good overlap. In this example it came from a big lunge from way back and at no point was an overlap achieved, as you can see from the moment of impact. The Porker is ahead of the Ferrari on the way to the apex when they hit.

TAKE

• BigJimmy
• Mar 3, 2021

In the real world this would have ended both their races and a significant amount of my blame would be on the overtaker. But, as it was a lobby race in a computer game I couldn't actually give a monkeys.

There's a Typical B pillar rule for overtaking in Real World Motorsports, with that Screen shot Ferrari is by or past the B Pillar of the Porsche so he's entitled to be there

 

[Pigems]

Perhaps Im way too nice. I ways think you should be ahead by the apex or you are pushing into a corner that wasnt yours if someone was turning into it.

In casual races with friends, sure. In top split FIA races, you either defend or get passed, that’s just how it works 99% of the time. These guys aren’t messing around.

 

[Mr P]

One of my main reasons not driving online, the driver behind using slipstream and extra momentum in the other guys braking zone to their advantage no matter the outcome, the guy ahead had the right of way and had it abruptly taken away after he had chose his turn in line.. that's just my opinion
and I've been a victim of this too often in my 11 races online haha 👎

 

[BigJimmy]

There's a Typical B pillar rule for overtaking in Real World Motorsports, with that Screen shot Ferrari is by or past the B Pillar of the Porsche so he's entitled to be there

The B pillar rule that's what I was trying to remember. I think its pretty touch and go on that one considering the last minute lunge but again I think I'm too nice.

 

[kungtotte_]

One of my main reasons not driving online, the driver behind using slipstream and extra momentum in the other guys braking zone to their advantage no matter the outcome, the guy ahead had the right of way and had it abruptly taken away after he had chose his turn in line.. that's just my opinion
and I've been a victim of this too often in my 11 races online haha 👎

"Right of way" is a concept for driving on the street, in racing it's about who asserts their control over the track.

Something that's done by positioning your car and showing intent with your movements on the track. Think about the intent the Porsche is showing throughout the clip with his track positioning and movements, and then consider whether this was a dirty overtake or not.

 

[Furinkazen]

That just about sums him up.

By your logic any overtake attempt is not allowed then if you're a way back.

Oh and here timestamped is an example of that exact move in real life without contact because defending driver used awareness. 03:40 if anyone can't get the timestamp.