What do we think of the 1 minute penalty?

[OJBrit]

I'm under the impression now this guy is a troll.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

When you enter a race there's literally a button named race details where everything is listed. Tire required, pitstops required, number of laps, speed of fuel tanked etc etc....
Could it be any more obvious???

 

[Sven Jurgens]

At least the game could tell you why you got a 1 minute penalty at the end. That would save a thousand threads accross the internet, "why did I get a penalty".

Yes, it could be far more obvious, otherwise this wouldn't still be an issue each time a race with extra rules pops up.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Could it be any more obvious???

Yes it could be on the screen like tyre requirements are.

 

[Junkman55]

I have been told my grammar and communication skills are a problem so bare with me I will try to use less miss spelled words to get my point across

To all the Alphabet drivers (ABC) in a online sim race if you can not pass a driver with bad tires Maybe your driver rating needs an adjustment to reflect your driving ability.

Driving on bad tires is a skill race car drivers need to know for when he can not pit to finish a race. A penalty force rule to pit is never going to make you a better driver.

 

[Famine]

Driving on bad tires is a skill race car drivers need to know for when he can not pit to finish a race.

Following the regulations is a skill race car drivers need to know in order to finish a race and be classified.

A penalty force rule to pit is never going to make you a better driver.

Ignoring the regulations is never going to make you a better driver.

if you can not pass a driver with bad tires maybe your driver rating needs an adjustment to reflect your driving ability.

If you cannot follow the regulations, maybe your driver rating needs an adjustment to reflect your driving ability.

Not that yours can be adjusted any futher down, of course.

 

[The_Tullster]

I have been told my grammar and communication skills are a problem so bare with me I will try to use less miss spelled words to get my point across

To all the Alphabet drivers (ABC) in a online sim race if you can not pass a driver with bad tires Maybe your driver rating needs an adjustment to reflect your driving ability.

Driving on bad tires is a skill race car drivers need to know for when he can not pit to finish a race. A penalty force rule to pit is never going to make you a better driver.

Not sure if you got the message yet, but there was no requirement to change tyres in that race. All that was required to comply with the rule was a stop/go in your pit box. I ran it without tyre changes but with the pitstop with no issue.

Edit: And just quietly, the tyres weren't what I'd call worn at the end of the race anyway, they had at least several more laps life remaining.

 

[kilesa4568]

Not sure if you got the message yet, but there was no requirement to change tyres in that race. All that was required to comply with the rule was a stop/go in your pit box. I ran it without tyre changes but with the pitstop with no issue.

You could even pit on lap 7, giving you plenty of time to demonstrate your racing driver prowess on your well worn tires.

 

[Redneckchef]

I voted ages ago, but was waiting to see where the derail train went before I commented.

I think the 1 minute penalty sort of fits pretty well. It is a harsh penalty that really screws up your results if you get it, but it isn't a full DQ. I also agree that making some of the requirements more obvious, like the on screen warning about put or tire requirements during the race would be beneficial. Other racing sims/games follow that path to cover the fact that you don't have a strategist helping you while you drive like in real life situations.

As for the derail, if you enter the race you agree to honor the posted rules for that event. If you fail to honor those rules you are subject to penalty. As mentioned above, no tires are required, only the stop and go. I haven't taken tires in any race and only had sketchy tires in lap 8 when I ran the Jaguar and got bumped in to a few spins to burn them up.

Follow the rules or face the penalty.

 

[Imari]

When you enter a race there's literally a button named race details where everything is listed. Tire required, pitstops required, number of laps, speed of fuel tanked etc etc....
Could it be any more obvious???

Yes, you could not have to click the button. It could be on the main race screen, or listed on the loading screen as you boot into the race, or available as information on the HUD during the race (preferably with reminders when you're 1-2 laps from the end of the race without serving a mandatory pitstop). Or on pit boards or voiceovers or any of dozens of other potential ways of helping people not forget a critical part of the race, instead of hiding it and expecting them to go looking.

There's a time and a place for hiding the rules in sub-menus and making people go looking for them, and it's not in a casual game where you want people to jump on and have a quick race for fun. The question you should be asking is "has the game made this as easy as possible for people so that it's not creating unnecessary frustration because someone forgot to click a button before the race?" If you want everyone to have that information, put it in a place where it can't be skipped accidentally.

Look at how something like Dirt Rally 2 handles joker laps in rallycross. If you somehow manage to go the whole race without doing one, there's no excuse that you didn't know what the rules are.

 

[Mercia]

Driving on bad tires is a skill race car drivers need to know for when he can not pit to finish a race. A penalty force rule to pit is never going to make you a better driver.

You seem to be locked in an argument with imaginary people, man. I can't see why you continue to hammer away at this.

You don't like the rule, we get that, it doesn't require so many posts to say it.

 

[OJBrit]

There's a time and a place for hiding the rules in sub-menus and making people go looking for them, and it's not in a casual game where you want people to jump on and have a quick race for fun. The question you should be asking is "has the game made this as easy as possible for people so that it's not creating unnecessary frustration because someone forgot to click a button before the race?" If you want everyone to have that information, put it in a place where it can't be skipped accidentally.

The thing is though these are only on race C. It isn't like A or B where it is effectively arcade. Race C has tyre wear and is longer sometimes featuring the fastest and hardest cars in the game. You're not going to see the super formula in race A or B for example. This race has settings and rules to check out pre race. You can do that on the initial screen before you enter the race to see if it suits you. You also have a chance to do it before the race starts as well. Race C rules should be checked pre race. It's ingrained. If you mess up a couple of times then you learn and don't do it again. This shouldn't be an issue for long.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Yes, you could not have to click the button. It could be on the main race screen, or listed on the loading screen as you boot into the race, or available as information on the HUD during the race (preferably with reminders when you're 1-2 laps from the end of the race without serving a mandatory pitstop). Or on pit boards or voiceovers or any of dozens of other potential ways of helping people not forget a critical part of the race, instead of hiding it and expecting them to go looking.

There's a time and a place for hiding the rules in sub-menus and making people go looking for them, and it's not in a casual game where you want people to jump on and have a quick race for fun. The question you should be asking is "has the game made this as easy as possible for people so that it's not creating unnecessary frustration because someone forgot to click a button before the race?" If you want everyone to have that information, put it in a place where it can't be skipped accidentally.

Look at how something like Dirt Rally 2 handles joker laps in rallycross. If you somehow manage to go the whole race without doing one, there's no excuse that you didn't know what the rules are.

Yeah this is a no-brainer - PD should fix this, and the fact it need a stickied thread in a fan forum explaining why the penalty was given makes it very apparent that it isn't well communicated in-game.

 

[watto79]

To all the Alphabet drivers (ABC) in a online sim race if you can not pass a driver with bad tires Maybe your driver rating needs an adjustment to reflect your driving ability.

Nobody in this thread or any other thread has said that's the problem.

 

[Norrin Radd]

The thing is though these are only on race C. It isn't like A or B where it is effectively arcade. Race C has tyre wear and is longer sometimes featuring the fastest and hardest cars in the game. You're not going to see the super formula in race A or B for example. This race has settings and rules to check out pre race. You can do that on the initial screen before you enter the race to see if it suits you. You also have a chance to do it before the race starts as well. Race C rules should be checked pre race. It's ingrained. If you mess up a couple of times then you learn and don't do it again. This shouldn't be an issue for long.

Although I get your point, at the end of the day it is still a game and as such should be pick up and play wherever possible. The issue about needing a stop and being informed could be easily addressed by a banner on "joining session" screen or if that wasn't possible having something which highlights the race details when "warm up" is on. So yes we should check the rules, but that's no reason to hide the info that is important.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Well, to all that thinks it's"hidden away," when displayed in the race rules.
Partition PD to make autodrive put you in pit on lap 7 if you forgot......

I think that dumbing down games to the lowest domination is a bad thing.
If you get the penalty you read the rules and learn....

 

[Famine]

Well, to all that thinks it's"hidden away," when displayed in the race rules.
Partition PD to make autodrive put you in pit on lap 7 if you forgot......

I think that dumbing down games to the lowest domination is a bad thing.
If you get the penalty you read the rules and learn....

It's definitely not as clear as it could be.

"Required tyres" is shown in a screen you don't actually need to visit before entering the race. It's then shown in the bottom-right of the screen in the pre-race menus, but it's not explained in either location. If you're not so great at English (for example confusing "partition" with "petition" ) you might not know that this means you must use all of those tyres, and think it means you need to use some of them; they are the tyres required for the race, not that you are required to use each of them.

Moreover, the actual penalty itself isn't stated anywhere. Nowhere does it say "you'll get a one-minute penalty for breaking this rule" other than a news post about 18 months back. And that was for FIA races - I don't recall it ever being mentioned for Daily Races anywhere, though it might have been.

It's not a case of "dumbing down" but of being user friendly and giving necessary information easily. GT needs to express the concept that players must use these tyres during the race or face a penalty in a more accessible and more obvious fashion.

 

[Junkman55]

Following the regulations is a skill race car drivers need to know in order to finish a race and be classified.

Ignoring the regulations is never going to make you a better driver.

If you cannot follow the regulations, maybe your driver rating needs an adjustment to reflect your driving ability.

Not that yours can be adjusted any futher down, of course.

This threads is supposed to be what drivers think about a 1 min penalty rule that I only think is not needed because it doesn’t require fuel to finish the race. It is not about me personally not following the rules and regulations .

 

[Famine]

I only think is not needed because it doesn’t require fuel to finish the race

What does fuel have to do with it?

Also, this isn't true - as your first post in the thread (and every subsequent post) shows, you think it's not needed because you think it's more skillful to finish on "bad" tyres than to adhere to race regulations:

Why should you get a time penalty because you didn’t pit, the penalty is given because you have to slow down to finish the race. If some one can finish on bad tires is like a win in my racing

It is not about me personally not following the rules and regulations .

I used your own words in response to your own post:

If you don't like it, perhaps your argument is flawed. And it is.

 

[Zorz]

This threads is supposed to be what drivers think about a 1 min penalty rule that I only think is not needed because it doesn’t require fuel to finish the race. It is not about me personally not following the rules and regulations .

It's not just about this week's daily race C though. The OP's question was asking how people feel about the penalty the game should apply when someone ignores the rules and regulations in any race.

 

[Junkman55]

What does fuel have to do with it?

Also, this isn't true - as your first post in the thread (and every subsequent post) shows, you think it's not needed because you think it's more skillful to finish on "bad" tyres than to adhere to race regulations:


I used your own words in response to your own post:

View attachment 1085429

If you don't like it, perhaps your argument is flawed. And it is.

I many times tried to communicate to you to the best of my ability that I do not play the game GTS .

I use GTS daily online racing as software in my driving simulator. I do not need the stress of gaming to enjoy online racing.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Yes, you could not have to click the button. It could be on the main race screen, or listed on the loading screen as you boot into the race, or available as information on the HUD during the race (preferably with reminders when you're 1-2 laps from the end of the race without serving a mandatory pitstop). Or on pit boards or voiceovers or any of dozens of other potential ways of helping people not forget a critical part of the race, instead of hiding it and expecting them to go looking.

There's a time and a place for hiding the rules in sub-menus and making people go looking for them, and it's not in a casual game where you want people to jump on and have a quick race for fun. The question you should be asking is "has the game made this as easy as possible for people so that it's not creating unnecessary frustration because someone forgot to click a button before the race?" If you want everyone to have that information, put it in a place where it can't be skipped accidentally.

Look at how something like Dirt Rally 2 handles joker laps in rallycross. If you somehow manage to go the whole race without doing one, there's no excuse that you didn't know what the rules are.

I did one race C yesterday and there were still 3 people that got hit with the 1 minute penalty. Easy 3 extra spots gained but it's proof it needs to be more obvious. I usually don't pay attention to the pre-race lobby, click on enter race which brings on the countdown (where you can't see or check anything) and leave it until 3 minutes passed when the race starts. (Which has caused me to start on wet tires since the game allows those in dry races for some reason)

 

[Famine]

I do not play the game GTS .

I use GTS daily

I do not need the stress of gaming to enjoy online racing.

Cool. Still begs the question why, with your history of being adamant that you are sim racing, you're bitching about a real-life racing regulation being part of it.

The thread is for the consequence of breaking that regulation, not whether you think the regulation should be part of the game.

 

[Mercia]

I did one race C yesterday and there were still 3 people that got hit with the 1 minute penalty. Easy 3 extra spots gained but it's proof it needs to be more obvious.

Yeah, even in the spirit of the thread, I don't disagree it should be made more obvious. And I get peoples' statement's that it is there and you should look for it, but it still doesn't hurt to have it in a more prominent place. The game isn't find the ruleset, we're all here to race.

I feel like it's a design mistake, or maybe they just didn't anticipate the problem, which makes it surprising it wasn't fixed in the games cycle as I don't expect it to be now. You'd imagine given the complaints and confusion this will be changed for GT7 (god I'm so excited!).

 

[Imari]

The thing is though these are only on race C. It isn't like A or B where it is effectively arcade. Race C has tyre wear and is longer sometimes featuring the fastest and hardest cars in the game. You're not going to see the super formula in race A or B for example. This race has settings and rules to check out pre race. You can do that on the initial screen before you enter the race to see if it suits you. You also have a chance to do it before the race starts as well. Race C rules should be checked pre race. It's ingrained. If you mess up a couple of times then you learn and don't do it again. This shouldn't be an issue for long.

It's not that it's impossible or even difficult to check. It's that checking then becomes part of the game, and if you don't do it then you just fail.

The common one I see often in more "serious" sims is fuel - fuel is almost never set up correctly for the race by default, you just have to remember to do it. If you don't then at best you get yourself an extra pit stop when you notice, at worst you run out of fuel and DNF. Now, in a "serious" sim that setup phase can be looked at as part of the game. Serious sim racers get joy out of setting up their car and strategy perfectly before the race, and are willing to eat the consequences for failing to do so.

But for a casual audience who just wants a fun blast around a track I'd argue that it's all negatives and no positives. They don't get any joy out of checking the rules (or even setting up their cars, generally), and there's always the potential that they mess up and just make the race unfun for themselves. Having the rules stuck in a sub-menu is one way to do it, but I don't think that it lives up to Gran Turismo's core values of accessibility and casual friendliness. It's not that it's awful, it's just that it could be better by making some simple changes.

Honestly, I'm not sure why having rules, penalties and generic race information on the loading screen isn't already a thing. That seems like the super obvious place to put it - the player is waiting anyway with nothing else to do and so giving them useful information during that time seems like a win for everyone.

I many times tried to communicate to you to the best of my ability that I do not play the game GTS .

I use GTS daily online racing as software in my driving simulator. I do not need the stress of gaming to enjoy online racing.

Why are you even here on this gaming forum if you don't game? It's full of gamers here in this gaming forum, all busy playing their games with their game controllers on their game consoles. You might want to consider whether this is the appropriate audience to talk to about not gaming.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

for example confusing "partition" with "petition"

I blame autocorrect (and having 4 different languages/keyboards each with different autocorrect)

But fair enough. The penalty reason should show when you get it.
Weather or not the required pitstop should be displayed more prominent is a thing to discuss if they ever do it again.

Part of me thinks they did it to see how many penalties they could dish out

 

[kilesa4568]

To be fair, the penalty for ignoring the regulations has been around long enough to make checking them 2nd nature for most. Kudoprime makes a note of any requirements too and we've all got a device to check them days before the race starts.

 

[zortation]

Surely not pitting in a mandatory pit stop race or not changing tires when 2 sets are mandatory should be nothing less than a DSQ?

1 minute is less than half a lap of the current C race, I don't see how this isn't way too lenient?

What are people's thoughts on it?

I feel more upset looking at my position drop as cars are passing the finish line. To me that's more punishment than just being DQ'd. You get to see in real time what could have been if you just paid more attention.

 

[Junkman55]

I feel more upset looking at my position drop as cars are passing the finish line. To me that's more punishment than just being DQ'd. You get to see in real time what could have been if you just paid more attention.

Now that’s is a good definition of “a gotcha” .

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Now that’s is a good definition of “a gotcha” .

A penalty that you could have avoided if you had paid attention? OK, gotcha.....