What does GT5 have over FM3?

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niky
Interesting you bring up curbs. I was just thinking about this a while ago, while playing around on the Nurburgring. There's no real sense of bottoming out over GT5's curbs... or the unsettling action such curbs can have on poorly set up cars... though I suppose I should try and over-lower a car to see if this holds true in all cases. The only time I've really felt any unsettling or bottoming out was in the PDI Kart.

The grass in GT5 is just as it should be. I think what's at issue is that traction control is activated once you get wildly off into the grass... which kind of lessens the penalty of a mistake. Still, I have gotten cars sideways by putting a wheel off. Might go out and do some testing later.
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I noticed this as well. I went back and gave Forza 3 a go and noticed much the same thing. There are myriad places where your car will bottom out in Forza on the 'Ring, high camber corners, drop-offs etc. I was quite shocked by it actually. I'd be flying along and then you'd hear (and feel) an almighty thud.

I have never experienced this in Gran Turismo 5, even driving the F2010 around the 'Ring, which I assume would be one of the lowest cars.

I have no idea what to make of it to be honest. I've never driven the 'Ring in real life, so I have no opinion on track accuracy, but the tracks in Forza 3 certainly aren't all super smooth, like some in this thread will have you believe.
 
SavageEvil
@ Tigermilk, none of the events in GT5 are remotely realistic. Who can win a race from the back of the back in 2 laps against equal opponents? Be serious, we know it's a game and it's going to be a game for the rest of its career.
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On FM3 I would be under F308GTB. Mind you I don't run hot laps. All my times are based on career mode, so getting clean laps can be a challenge. My clean lap times are generally pretty good. But you know FM3 - an AI car can be drafting off of you 1-2 seconds back and it negates your clean lap.

I posted my lap times on the other page, both were just under 6:50. Stop comparing real life to video game, there are reasons why real life times do not get too low, it's called fear.
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Then we should stop calling GT the "real driving simulator"!


What is perplexing is that you claimed to be in the top 5% in FM3 lap times with assists off, but claim to have problems getting a flawless lap on the Ring? That doesn't even make sense.
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Didn't say I couldn't get a flawless lap. What I said was that it takes more effort/concentration. And since I do only post lap times in races, I would definitely be outside the 5% on the 'Ring due to drafting. I'm merely comparing the two games with assists off. Nothing more.

You make claims but they are clearly untrue, if you think that only steering inputs upsets your car in GT5 you are clearly imagining things. I've had my car get rather squirrely when I downshifted too early, lower gears are definitely hard to drive through even in a straight line with a powerful car, on a turn it's much more pronounced as you have to be careful of your slip angle before applying throttle, that G meter is useful. Things I did in FM3 and could get away with can't even attempt those in GT5 without serious risk of losing control of my car. Not sure why you think GT5 has all this monster grip, when you can in FM3 have a car with no adjustable downforce and have it out turn cars with downforce. NASCAR vehicles do have a good deal of downforce, but they also have serious weight and not to mention they have absolutely huge tires. You are forgetting one important thing about cars, without good tires they can't do much. FM3 has many things going for it, but it's forgiving physics isn't one of them.
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In my opinion, the downforce is simply dialed up a little too high in GT5, and I remember the same thing in GT3 and GT4. It's been forever since I played GT and GT2, so I can't comment. And like you, there are things I can get away with in FM3 that I can't in GT5, such as trying to quickly overcorrect a steering input. GT5 whips me around. But then again, there are things I can get away with in GT5 that I can't in FM3. Who is to say which is the correct model? Unless you, I or others have track time behind some high powered car, we can only imagine. But I've got a library of some 100+ racing and driving games to form my personal opinions.

And don't confuse mechanical grip (those big fat NASCAR tires) with aerodynamic grip. On a course like the 'Ring the mechanical grip comes into play on those 2nd gear turns.

You not accepting the invite to drive online is one that I take as a serious hit to your credibility.
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Whatever. Haven't been online with GT5 due to the horror stories I've heard about. And frankly, having been through the online experience with other racing games over the years and having more than my share of teens cornhole me in the first turn, I've pretty much given up on the experience. This is even moreso in the first several months of a game. Everyone and their punk brother is online. Wait a year and you'll be left with diehards and a better experience.

You can't power your way anywhere, either get your car in a straight line before pouring on the power or pay the price. What tires are you using in GT5? Racing tires are so well done, snap oversteer is just incredible being just as unpredictable when it comes to losing grip in real life.
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I fully agree with you. But you have to get straight in FM3 as well. I just think, based on the hours I've put in GT5 and FM3 (and F355, Race Pro, GPL, NASCAR Heat, Pro Race Driver, F1 on PC, some on rFactor, and dozens of others) that GT5 is a little more forgiving than FM3. It is my opinion. Doesn't make it fact. Just like YOUR opinion is the opposite. But hey, a ton of people thought Avatar was a great movie, but that doesn't make it so. The fact that I thought it was "meh" doesn't mean it sucks for everyone.

You know what they say, opinions are like "a holes" - everyone has one. But one thing I think we can both agree on is that driving in either game pales in comparison to the real thing. You just can't get the feedback in a game like you do in real life. I get a lot more enjoyment driving my real cars (I've got a FF, FR, and MR) than the fake ones.
 
There are myriad places where your car will bottom out in Forza on the 'Ring, high camber corners, drop-offs etc. I was quite shocked by it actually. I'd be flying along and then you'd hear (and feel) an almighty thud.
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I have to wonder is this over done? In Forza 3 just touching the brakes lights up the rotors so it would not surprise me if it were over done

GT5 could have under simulated bottoming out but did Forza 3 over do it? How many cars can bottom out? I know the GT5 Enzo bottoms out at the ring and curbs upset it. But if I'm in a passenger car curbs are more forgiving.

On the main point I think Forza 3 and GT5 are for different racers. If your into modern exotics, if how your car looks is as important as how fast it goes F3 has alot over GT5.

But if you respect and cherish car history from all eras, need the best physics and like things like online track days GT5 is for you.
 
tigermilk
Then we should stop calling GT the "real driving simulator"!
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Exactly. You can't have it both ways. A Nascar would be nowhere near the 'Ring times you can achieve on GT5. And please don't bring fear into the conversation. Professional drivers don't fear driving like you or I would, hence "professional drivers".
 
It's called advertising, and both GT and Forza are guilty of unfounded claims. Then again, most people often can't tell the difference.
 
machschnel
Exactly. You can't have it both ways. A Nascar would be nowhere near the 'Ring times you can achieve on GT5. And please don't bring fear into the conversation. Professional drivers don't fear driving like you or I would, hence "professional drivers".
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Professional drivers plays it lot safer than most sim racers. So they do have the respectable "fear" knowing the difference between racing hard and just being stupid.
I think Fm3 over did the curbs effect as shown in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6ZucrHtQho
I don't know about you but that look as realistic as some of the stuff Hollywood produced where a car hit a parked car in the back and flipped the car on it's side.
 
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I just did at least 5 laps around FM3's Ring in an Enzo, F50 and FXX and hitting the grass over 150 mph barely disrupted my momentum. The most I can say in FM3's favour is that the kerbstones have the potential to destabilize you and the bends in the latter half of the track are severe.
 
Zoom!Zoom!
Professional drivers plays it lot safer than most sim racers. So they do have the respectable "fear" knowing the difference between racing hard and just being stupid.
I think Fm3 over did the curbs effect as shown in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6ZucrHtQho
I don't know about you but that look as realistic as some of the stuff Hollywood produced where a car hit a parked car in the back and flipped the car on it's side.
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Oh crap THAT is the Nurburgring? Looks like Grand Valley. GT5 or Forza 3 Nurburgring is WAY off...

As for no fear how many times would you have been killed in GT5 already guys?

Racecar drivers are brave but not stupid
 
Earth
Oh crap THAT is the Nurburgring? Looks like Grand Valley. GT5 or Forza 3 Nurburgring is WAY off...

As for no fear how many times would you have been killed in GT5 already guys?

Racecar drivers are brave but not stupid
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Forza 3's Nurburgring is off but not GT5's. GT5's Nurburgring is the most accurate in racing sims. the only people that really can dethrone them are the guys over at IRacing. (if they actually decide to bring the Green Hell over to Iracing)
 
As far as driving on the grass, one of the things Dale Earnhardt was famous for was "passing in the grass". They later made that move against the rules unless the driver is trying to avoid an accident.
 
tigermilk
...
You know what they say, opinions are like "a holes" - everyone has one. But one thing I think we can both agree on is that driving in either game pales in comparison to the real thing. You just can't get the feedback in a game like you do in real life. I get a lot more enjoyment driving my real cars (I've got a FF, FR, and MR) than the fake ones.
Click to expand...

I prefer AWD drive cars to either, while each has it's positives and negatives. AWD with advancement of technology, is better than two wheel driven car. I live in NY and AWD is just a smarter choice, especially when it comes to snow. Besides as long as it has a manual stick, I'm all for it.
 
SavageEvil
I prefer AWD drive cars to either, while each has it's positives and negatives. AWD with advancement of technology, is better than two wheel driven car. I live in NY and AWD is just a smarter choice, especially when it comes to snow. Besides as long as it has a manual stick, I'm all for it.
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Have to say AWD is one car I've never driven (perhaps I can talk the wife into an R8:)). And my cars always make me thing - each is manual and each has a different shift pattern and reverse is in a different place in each. They all drive completely different - 70s MR with carbs and no modern creature comforts, 90s FR with stability control and ABS, and 00s FF with just ABS. Even though I don't push them to their respective limits, you can certainly feel the differences in response.
 
niky
Interesting you bring up curbs. I was just thinking about this a while ago, while playing around on the Nurburgring. There's no real sense of bottoming out over GT5's curbs... or the unsettling action such curbs can have on poorly set up cars... though I suppose I should try and over-lower a car to see if this holds true in all cases. The only time I've really felt any unsettling or bottoming out was in the PDI Kart.

The grass in GT5 is just as it should be. I think what's at issue is that traction control is activated once you get wildly off into the grass... which kind of lessens the penalty of a mistake. Still, I have gotten cars sideways by putting a wheel off. Might go out and do some testing later.
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My Mx-5 is bottoming out here - it's hopping over those low curbs on Autumn ring, which shouldn't cause any problem, much like a Kart does on the same track. I lowered down a lot, without changing the springs and dampers

The later half of the video - run starting at 3:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkPZHAm8yUg
 
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Who really gives one...im not really worried what those microsoft crayon users get compared to us.........just enjoy what you got matey.
 
Zoom!Zoom!
As far as driving on the grass, one of the things Dale Earnhardt was famous for was "passing in the grass". They later made that move against the rules unless the driver is trying to avoid an accident.
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Alex Zanardi: Playing Gran Turismo in real life since the Stone Age.

@CoolColJ: Not stock, though. I know quite a few cars that will bottom out over mild kerbs at high speed stock... I'm going to give it a whirl when I have the time.
 
Sans all the specific opinions and "pro and cons" isn't interesting the franchise king, GT, is being compared with the younger upstart Forza? Clearly Forza has caught up (or passed depending on your opinion) or the King has slipped. I think it's a sizeable measure of both. Forza 4 may be a telling title.
 
tigermilk
On FM3 I would be under F308GTB. Mind you I don't run hot laps. All my times are based on career mode, so getting clean laps can be a challenge. My clean lap times are generally pretty good. But you know FM3 - an AI car can be drafting off of you 1-2 seconds back and it negates your clean lap.


Then we should stop calling GT the "real driving simulator"!



Didn't say I couldn't get a flawless lap. What I said was that it takes more effort/concentration. And since I do only post lap times in races, I would definitely be outside the 5% on the 'Ring due to drafting. I'm merely comparing the two games with assists off. Nothing more.


In my opinion, the downforce is simply dialed up a little too high in GT5, and I remember the same thing in GT3 and GT4. It's been forever since I played GT and GT2, so I can't comment. And like you, there are things I can get away with in FM3 that I can't in GT5, such as trying to quickly overcorrect a steering input. GT5 whips me around. But then again, there are things I can get away with in GT5 that I can't in FM3. Who is to say which is the correct model? Unless you, I or others have track time behind some high powered car, we can only imagine. But I've got a library of some 100+ racing and driving games to form my personal opinions.

And don't confuse mechanical grip (those big fat NASCAR tires) with aerodynamic grip. On a course like the 'Ring the mechanical grip comes into play on those 2nd gear turns.


Whatever. Haven't been online with GT5 due to the horror stories I've heard about. And frankly, having been through the online experience with other racing games over the years and having more than my share of teens cornhole me in the first turn, I've pretty much given up on the experience. This is even moreso in the first several months of a game. Everyone and their punk brother is online. Wait a year and you'll be left with diehards and a better experience.


I fully agree with you. But you have to get straight in FM3 as well. I just think, based on the hours I've put in GT5 and FM3 (and F355, Race Pro, GPL, NASCAR Heat, Pro Race Driver, F1 on PC, some on rFactor, and dozens of others) that GT5 is a little more forgiving than FM3. It is my opinion. Doesn't make it fact. Just like YOUR opinion is the opposite. But hey, a ton of people thought Avatar was a great movie, but that doesn't make it so. The fact that I thought it was "meh" doesn't mean it sucks for everyone.

You know what they say, opinions are like "a holes" - everyone has one. But one thing I think we can both agree on is that driving in either game pales in comparison to the real thing. You just can't get the feedback in a game like you do in real life. I get a lot more enjoyment driving my real cars (I've got a FF, FR, and MR) than the fake ones.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, it is time for you to walk away from race tyres and never look back...
 
Daverytimes
Forza 3's Nurburgring is off but not GT5's. GT5's Nurburgring is the most accurate in racing sims. the only people that really can dethrone them are the guys over at IRacing. (if they actually decide to bring the Green Hell over to Iracing)
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You DO know you just contradicted yourself in the span of one "."?
 
Premium car graphics and a better sense of speed, that's about it. Driving physics are good in GT5, but some aspects of it feel off. FM3 gives a consistent physics model for everything. Both games have flaws, but at this point GT5 is finding success only because of the GT name.
 
t.o.
You DO know you just contradicted yourself in the span of one "."?
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He didn't. He said if iRacing had the ring, it would probably be better than GT5s. But since they didn't, GT5's is the best.
 
Acquire
Premium car graphics and a better sense of speed, that's about it. Driving physics are good in GT5, but some aspects of it feel off. FM3 gives a consistent physics model for everything. Both games have flaws, but at this point GT5 is finding success only because of the GT name.
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I think it finds succes because some who loved the past ones still know why they did...
For example:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=157860
 
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