What does GT5 have over FM3?

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

GT5 is a racing game that shockingly has racing as it's prime focus. Forza calls itself a racing game, yet the prime focus is painting and running a store and taking pictures. GT5 has custom lobbies that allow you, the consumer, to race the way you want. Forza has crappy hoppers, which forces you and the dozen or so other people online to race the way T10 wants you to race. FM3 has 20 million credit cars that you as a racer will have to grind for while the real target market, the painters, have garages full of them. GT5 forces everyone to grind for their silly overpriced cars. GT5 has realistic physics and realistic cars. FM3 has arcade PGRish physics and stupid unrealistic cars like 1000 hp 60's era muscle cars with AWD swaps.

I could go on for days here. But in summary, GT5 is the game for serious racers looking for a true racing game with realistic cars and physics with minimal casual fluff. Forza is the game for casual players who like fluff and flash and only want to do a minimal amount of racing in completely unrealistic AWD swapped nonsense.

 

[Spagetti69]

I see you switched over Dawg.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Forza calls itself a racing game, yet the prime focus is painting and running a store and taking pictures.

A matter of opinion... and with the picture aspect, seeing as how it's possibly the most well-polished mode of GT5, pictures are meant to play a pretty big part in it, too.

GT5 forces everyone to grind for their silly overpriced cars.

There's a reason they're known as the birthday exploit cars, though.

GT5 has realistic physics and realistic cars. FM3 has arcade PGRish physics and stupid unrealistic cars like 1000 hp 60's era muscle cars with AWD swaps.

Ignoring the exaggeration (PGR comparison)... perhaps you've heard of the X2010?

I could go on for days here. But in summary, GT5 is the game for serious racers looking for a true racing game with realistic cars and physics with minimal casual fluff. Forza is the game for casual players who like fluff and flash and only want to do a minimal amount of racing in completely unrealistic AWD swapped nonsense.

GT has been designed in such a way that anybody who owns it can own everything in the game (bar the Carbon X1) without ever doing a race themselves. The fact that's even possible when it never was in previous games says PD is (rather wisely) making an attempt to appease the casual market. They are, afterall, the ones who decide if a franchise lives or dies, not us loyal fans .

 

[t.o.]

GT5 is a racing game that shockingly has racing as it's prime focus. Forza calls itself a racing game, yet the prime focus is painting and running a store and taking pictures. GT5 has custom lobbies that allow you, the consumer, to race the way you want. Forza has crappy hoppers, which forces you and the dozen or so other people online to race the way T10 wants you to race. FM3 has 20 million credit cars that you as a racer will have to grind for while the real target market, the painters, have garages full of them. GT5 forces everyone to grind for their silly overpriced cars. GT5 has realistic physics and realistic cars. FM3 has arcade PGRish physics and stupid unrealistic cars like 1000 hp 60's era muscle cars with AWD swaps.

I could go on for days here. But in summary, GT5 is the game for serious racers looking for a true racing game with realistic cars and physics with minimal casual fluff. Forza is the game for casual players who like fluff and flash and only want to do a minimal amount of racing in completely unrealistic AWD swapped nonsense.

Totally wrong man. This response reads as a typical "fanboy" response with no insight or attempt to spark intelligent debate. I'm not calling YOU a fanboy but this is how it reads. GT5 is a driving simulator FIRST. If you don't think so look at the cover of your game case. And in this function , without too much fiddling around with upgrades by the user, it does this very well. Some may question the braking with all assists off and ABS set to 0 but that aside it does driving simulations well. What it does not do well is racing. It's does racing simulating as well as Forza 3 does driving simulating, good enough to get over but not it's strong suit. And Forza 3 does racing simulating as well as GT5 does driving simulating, it's pretty much it's strong suit. Both games can easily be enjoyed in the other's realm but to get the most for you time go with the winner in each category.

But as someone said before, it's seems like in FM3 there's always something to do. GT5 reminds me of a job where once you've finished the business of the day there's nothing but busy work laying around. The boss wants you to look busy but you're not really doing anything. FM3 reminds me of that dream job where you love what you do and there's no shortage of work to be done YET there's no outrageous deadline on your back.

I'm still waiting for uploading or saving and converting replays like they said was going to be in the game from day one. I could at least make some movies like I've done in FM3 but I can't even do that.

 

[Afro1]

Ok ok lets make a few things clear:
1. GT5 has better physics (no ifs not buts).
2. Forza has a better range of options to customise your car.
3. GT5 has a better lobby system (you can choose what you want to do)
4. Forza is more of a pick up and play game
5. GT5 has more content
6. Forza has a consistency in the way the cars look

Just getting tired of people denying these things now.

 

[Luminis]

Ok ok lets make a few things clear:
1. GT5 has better physics (no ifs not buts).
2. Forza has a better range of options to customise your car.
3. GT5 has a better lobby system (you can choose what you want to do)
4. Forza is more of a pick up and play game
5. GT5 has more content
6. Forza has a consistency in the way the cars look

Just getting tired of people denying these things now.

More content? It has more cars, but more events/tracks? Nope. Given that Forza has user created content too, I'd challenge that.

 

[JJ72]

Forza 3 has a better lobby system if you are into league racing, you can set finer restrictions, handicaps, a wider range of race rules (mandatory pitstops, staggered start, time limited races).

It also has better physics when racing is concerned, tire temperature, tire wear and damage simulation are all superior and it isn't just constant hotlapping.

As a racer who only find league racing challenging, Forza is a better racing simulator. While GT5 is a better driving simulator - I'll call it a track day sim, what it does best is allow you to pick a car, pick a track, and just enjoy the driving experience.

But for serious racing, it lacks a lot of the elements that make actual racecraft important, and hence a lot less challenging.

 

[CarolinaBlue704]

A lot of opinions in this thread are being thrown around like facts...

With that said, I'll stick with GT5.

 

[juhaniman]

Spade, GT better sounds, I don't get that one.

Go to sound settings in Options, select Large Theatre, turn up the volume and enjoy.

 

[Zer0]

More content? It has more cars, but more events/tracks? Nope. Given that Forza has user created content too, I'd challenge that.

With the track generator you have infinite fantasy tracks also GT5 tracks are more than Forza in the sense of more locations and different driving conditions.

How many different tracks has Forza without counting variations?

 

[Luminis]

With the track generator you have infinite fantasy tracks also GT5 tracks are more than Forza in the sense of more locations and different driving conditions.

How many different tracks has Forza without counting variations?

With all the reverse tracks and different layouts, the same can be said for Gran Turismo. And while GT5 has the track editor (or random track generator, which I find to be more fitting), Forza has the livery editor.

I'll settle for equal amounts of content in both games, but I seriously can't see how GT5 has more than Forza.

 

[Spagetti69]

Go to sound settings in Options, select Large Theatre, turn up the volume and enjoy.

Oh I see.
And of course own a large theatre.

 

[superdan]

In my opion GT5 has more cars and better physics, but both are good.
Forza has more tracks and a bigger career, but the career was terrible so, it doesnt really matter how big it is ( i think i done 4% 👎 ).
The main difference beetween the two for me is the leaderboards Forzas>GT5. Although i like the new timetrials.
Oh and the multiplayer is better on GT5.

 

[crab66]

The most important thing, physics. Driving different vehicles and different setups is very noticeable in GT5. Graphics when it comes to premium cars. The car selection.

Pretty much everything else is a tie or worse. The half-baked and rpg-like game systems of GT5 are complete garbage and almost certainly a negative rather than positive.

 

[sesselpupser]

If you're asking why I chose GT5 over Forza 3 (as in, chose to stop playing Forza 3 in favour of GT5), these are my reasons:

Physics
More cars I like
I don't have any friends with 360's, and I don't want to pay to play online on my secondary console.

Simple as those, really. Forza 3's tuning options and menu were far better, but the levelling system there was flawed, too; I'd hit the level cap before I'd even gotten started with it, it could have done with more levels. GT5 needs more levels, too, but the seasonal events are a very good step towards helping those who don't have time to do the endurance races (I'm just about to hit level 30 without even touching an endurance).

 

[cuco33]

I didn't read all of Forza's GT5 thread but from what I did see they are saying nicer things about GT5 than some of the people on here. The only thing I don't get is some of the bad pics they put up of GT5 they look terrible but I havn't seen anything as bad as that in the game. Ive seen simalar pics on other sites , I saw one which was from GT3 and they wre trying to pass it off as GT5 . Maybe some are photoshopped to look bad.

Take a look at some of the events like the Lupo cup race which is all Lupos racing, a car which is a standard model and has really bad jaggies on the hatch window. Very reminiscent of PS2 era visuals.

These are mine, taken from the rear which is what you'll see most if racing and behind these cars:

The mk1 rabbit also has the headlights which look pasted on image but what's worse than that is the text in the license plates. I don't have a pic of my gifted Mugen CRX but some of the livery curves are very blocky. It's not all fanboiz with motives making photoshops here, these things do appear in game. Sure, it's visual fluff and something I don't care much for when racing since you won't notice much (for the most part) but when you go into photomodes they stand out like eye soars. Some standards look quite good though, but the premiums are just jaw dropping gorgeous.

 

[cuco33]

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/gran_turismo_5_vs._forza_motorsport_3-feature

I mentioned this recently in another thread but that got locked. The article screams out 'site traffic type of article' from a GT fan. It's not all of C&D's comparison of the games (why is C&D even reviewing games in the first place?!) but rather 1 guy's view on it, a guy which apparently only started working for C&D just 3-4 months ago. I agree with some of his points he made and disagree with others but there is clearly bias in his article. I like the way insidesimracing does their reviews when they look at a specific car of a game and not the whole game in general. When they talk about a game they do more than 2 cars on 1 track, because if the car data is wrong then guess what? The car won't drive like the real thing. I've read from some who have tracked their cars and said they handle nothing like they do in game, which could be a result of some bad car data.

FM3 and GT5 are very similar in that both are games which follow the sim route but have features that casuals/arcade fans will enjoy (moreso Forza though as there are more options to dumb down the sim experience). If you like 1, you'll like the other and vice versa. Both have pros and cons over each other. Sadly people have a tendency to think that if a game is harder it instantly means superior physics. In my book, the physics engine is better in GT5, but only by a little bit and not night and day difference like many here imply.

 

[cygnus_zero]

GT5 is a racing game that shockingly has racing as it's prime focus. Forza calls itself a racing game, yet the prime focus is painting and running a store and taking pictures. GT5 has custom lobbies that allow you, the consumer, to race the way you want. Forza has crappy hoppers, which forces you and the dozen or so other people online to race the way T10 wants you to race. FM3 has 20 million credit cars that you as a racer will have to grind for while the real target market, the painters, have garages full of them. GT5 forces everyone to grind for their silly overpriced cars. GT5 has realistic physics and realistic cars. FM3 has arcade PGRish physics and stupid unrealistic cars like 1000 hp 60's era muscle cars with AWD swaps.

I could go on for days here. But in summary, GT5 is the game for serious racers looking for a true racing game with realistic cars and physics with minimal casual fluff. Forza is the game for casual players who like fluff and flash and only want to do a minimal amount of racing in completely unrealistic AWD swapped nonsense.

Have you even played Forza? Because FYI, the racing in it is pretty kick ass too. You sound like one of those tools that never played it, and just goes along with every other fanboi saying Forza is just about painting, when in fact that's just a bonus thing that it does on the side, the game is not about painting, it's all about racing.

Last time I played Forza 3, Im pretty sure it has tons of tracks, realistic cars, sounds and physics, interiors in every car, even more tuning options than GT5, engine swaps, full mechanical damage, real time telemetry. It's a racing sim, get off your jealous high horse and come back down to reality, Forza is not midnight club racing, not even remotely close, it's MUCH close to GT, and is as much of a sim as GT5, and even more in some ways. What the hell kind of racing sim doesnt have brake settings or engine swaps? Im pretty sure you can do those things in real life. Seems all you fanboi's due is make crap up about Forza to help yourself sleep better at night.

 

[Lawndart]

This thread is going in circles... perhaps because its gotten so big... Having spent 100s of hours with both (more with forza) I think the crux of the issue is that they both stand on their own merits and neither is better than the other... For anything good or bad in either, the other has a counter but neither is the all inclusive package... And there are host of wanted (some standard) features absent from both...

Whether it be Forza or GT5, I think we all, the sim driving community, want that definitive experience and until it shows up all we can do is talk about them... like we have been for the past 10+ years...

When GT first came out it was truly something new... it hasn't been since then that we all felt that same "WOW" factor... GT 5 was suppose to be that but has fallen squarely into the GT2,3, and 4 category, another update...

Forza and GT5 are great for what they are, you just have to play them both if you have both systems... Forza followed the GT play-book to a "T" and are just now finding their own way while still sticking to the spirit of GT instead of literal interpretation... Forza 4 "should" be something to look forward too...

If I was Turn 10, here are some takeaways from GT5 I would be thinking about:

1) Reduce environment fidelity to get more details from the cars and increase car count?

2) New higher contrast lighting model to get a more life like look?

oops missed the number) Better animating suspension parts and body role so cars look more weighty and realistic in replays?

3) More community integration between the game and web so Leagues, friends, and championships can all be managed in game?

4) More activities outside of racing to act as "down time" when you need a break from racing but still want to do something with the product?

5) More features to show up livery creations like photo locations?

6) Weather, yep need to do this and day and night transitions...

7) We don't need 1000 cars... focus on features...

8) The standard vs. premium isn't a well received decision, nix it except for our crappy Kentic support :/

9) Make out own wheel periferal... MS isn't going to make another one and Fanatic isn't going to be on retail shelves anytime soon... do a bundle and help them get to retail with our product? Might be a way to reach more GT customers as we'll never be allowed to make a PS3 version...

10) Maybe we should start talking to our community more? Nah...

11) Lets get the licenses GT didn't like ALMS, Rolex, Continental, BBTC, FIA, etc... or at least as many of their cars and tracks, the community to put them together for sponsored events events and we don't need to play series licence fees.

12) Do at least half as many cars on top of the garage we already have and make sure they are all new as our existing garage will be slightly dated by the time we ship... This will keep up current and artificially boost our garage size...

13) Appeal to online leagues and do a championship later mode online? This will lock down all the hard core console racers...

14) Update the physics, it's no longer enough for the math to be right, it needs to FEEL right above all else including authenticity of the math... Copy GT5 as close as possible... no complaints in that area...

15) Make sure online and off line feel EXACTLY the same...

16) Get more cars on the track by reducing fidelity in areas that don't matter or aren't focal points while racing... follow point 1 above...

17) Is it time to implement a flag system instead of an arbitrary penalty system thats more like policing than game play?

18) Handicap the 4 wheel drive advantage...

19) Pit crews are COOL!!! But not cool enough to spend the time with some many other features needed...

20) Off road? Yeah because GT is doing it and we copy though its a waist of time and we really should concentrate on defining our own core competency on the 4th version... But we'll do it because Dan called from the golf course and said it has to be in there...

21) More smoke and dust... look at step one again... we really need a better resource management system and need to make sure the car, physics, and environment guys are talking to each other this time... We'll leave the livery editor alone...

22) Clearly we need more "show off" locations where your car is featured in more locations than that mysterious mountain road...

23) Lets make the game more personal, add a driver like figure to represent the player... then lets come up with some creative management for the player and make a menu flow that resembles what a real racer or team manger would do so it feel like things are more consistent... Do we have a designer? Oh, no? never mind then...

24) Don't forget about the obligatory Kinetic support... "Really"? dammit, well there goes half of the more meaningful features we planned... Oh and gt it done this year... "There goes the rest of our new features"...

This list could go on and on...

 

[Tenacious D]

I have to defend some casual fluff here.

By now, I think most people know me as a Forza "basher," even though I bring up all the issue points on the same level as the GT5 "bashers." I do consider Forza the lesser game, a clone, a copy. But it does bring some nice features to the table, especially Forza 3. A pair of these are the mod system and livery shop.

I know a few here look down on a game that entices you to mod and paint up cars, even to going to ridiculous lengths to capture all the details of some race car, or even make your own, or even dare I say it, create entire murals on it. But people, come on, smell the paint bucket. What could be better than not waiting on PD to model some race car you want, but taking an existing model and having it done yourself, or by some master artist online? With Forza's modding and painting system, you can have an endless roster of historic or fantasy racing machines. And you can even paint over existing race cars, making them unique creations. What in the world could be cooler than making up your own club liveries, or one just for yourself, just as real racing teams do? If you need decals, there's a thriving store front with decals of every imaginable kind. Also national flags, racing number plaques for different racing leagues, entire liveries for sale, you name it. This is definitely not a bad thing, and you don't ever have to pick up a paint gun yourself if you have no talent. Just ask an artist to create one, or buy one ready made in the Storefront.

In fact, my worst nightmare was realized - okay, a bit too dramatic, but I'm very disappointed that all you can do is race mod 17 cars in GT5, and apply body kit elements in an uneven level to a portion of the cars in the game. And then, you can only paint them one color, and that requires you to have a freaking paint chip! So to create racing clubs, as I feared, we're reduced to quibbling over who gets what race cars, and who gets what colors for painted up street cars. UGH.

There was quite the thriving bunch of us in a friendly competition to whip up a GT Planet scheme for various cars led by alba, and it resulted in some very impressive liveries. Unfortunately, the file handling bogs down when you have over 130 some odd files, and to make race cars, you need a lot of decals, national flags, racing number plates, etc, so it became an ordeal just to sort through items to stick on the cars. And then there's the utter hell of getting pics uploaded to the official Forza site, which drains them of color and reduces resolution, and generally mucks them up to the point I quit playing it entirely. After less than two months, unfortunately.

There is plenty to criticize about both games, but giving the player the ability to create their own content sure isn't one of them.

 

[birksy82]

Take a look at some of the events like the Lupo cup race which is all Lupos racing, a car which is a standard model and has really bad jaggies on the hatch window. Very reminiscent of PS2 era visuals.

These are mine, taken from the rear which is what you'll see most if racing and behind these cars:

The mk1 rabbit also has the headlights which look pasted on image but what's worse than that is the text in the license plates. I don't have a pic of my gifted Mugen CRX but some of the livery curves are very blocky. It's not all fanboiz with motives making photoshops here, these things do appear in game. Sure, it's visual fluff and something I don't care much for when racing since you won't notice much (for the most part) but when you go into photomodes they stand out like eye soars. Some standards look quite good though, but the premiums are just jaw dropping gorgeous.

Don't get me wrong im not saying that all the car's look great I have seen other car's which look as bad as this as well. The pictures I was talking about , the whole picture , track , grass , fencing and the car looked terrible a lot worse than in your pics. In the pics you have posted the car's don't look great but the surroundings look good imo and nothing like the pics that I have seen. I was only guessing that they could have been photoshopped I wasn't trying to state a fact I will try and post the pic's that I have seen so you can see what I mean.

Edit:Take this one for example

There's no way that this is taken directly from GT5's photomode it look's like a picture taken of the t.v screen if anything. But would that make it look this bad? I couldn't care less about it tbh as I know the game doesn't look this bad anywhere but I just wanted to clear this up. Also im not a GT fanboy I would even buy Forza 3 if I owned a 360 now. I did have Forza 2 when I had a 360 which I thought was a great game but I don't have the time for 2 consoles worth of games now

 

[Spagetti69]

Bloody hell D, you've mellowed.

 

[MowTin]

I mentioned this recently in another thread but that got locked. The article screams out 'site traffic type of article' from a GT fan. It's not all of C&D's comparison of the games (why is C&D even reviewing games in the first place?!) but rather 1 guy's view on it, a guy which apparently only started working for C&D just 3-4 months ago. I agree with some of his points he made and disagree with others but there is clearly bias in his article. I like the way insidesimracing does their reviews when they look at a specific car of a game and not the whole game in general. When they talk about a game they do more than 2 cars on 1 track, because if the car data is wrong then guess what? The car won't drive like the real thing. I've read from some who have tracked their cars and said they handle nothing like they do in game, which could be a result of some bad car data.

FM3 and GT5 are very similar in that both are games which follow the sim route but have features that casuals/arcade fans will enjoy (moreso Forza though as there are more options to dumb down the sim experience). If you like 1, you'll like the other and vice versa. Both have pros and cons over each other. Sadly people have a tendency to think that if a game is harder it instantly means superior physics. In my book, the physics engine is better in GT5, but only by a little bit and not night and day difference like many here imply.

It's good to read the Car and Driver article because it confirms my findings. I ran basically the same test that C&D did and had the EXACT same results a year ago comparing FM3 to GT5P.

To recap:
Oversteer in FM3 is too easy to catch
FM3 has hidden steering assists that give the game an arcadey feel.
Generally FM3 is too forgiving.

FM3 can be a little deceptive because when you drive well it's hard to see the flaws. It's when you try to make novice mistakes that you realize that the game will prevent you from making those mistakes.

Maybe it's because I'm a bad driver who often makes mistakes that I notice the problems in FM3 more. Also I suspect those who play with a gamepad may not experience any differences because both FM3 and GT5 help gamepad players steer.

 

[JJ72]

There's no way that this is taken directly from GT5's photomode if from GT5 at all.

you mean it looks too bad? It's about the same as what I am seeing.

 

[Tenacious D]

Bloody hell D, you've mellowed.

Hey, I just call 'em as I see 'em. I didn't see any need to drag the extra baggage into a complaint about the livery shop. Both games have plenty to whine about, so here's hoping that GT5 gets a nice progressive face lift over the year, and Forza 4 is no more buggy and flawed than GT5. And then that Kaz gets his head on straight for GT6.

Oh, and on Lawndart's post previous:

7) We don't need 1000 cars... focus on features...

Speak for yourself. Many of us are car collectors, and I don't like the super/muscle car bias of Forza's car list. I mean, yes more of everything is better, but there are no 240SX hatchbacks or Pontiac Fieros in Forza, for instance. T10 neglects the cool but less impressive sports cars in favor of the Porsches and Koenigseggs.

I'd add a 25 to that list.

25) Fix the flaws in the car models, especially those that cause the livery editor to fall down go boom. Nothing is more frustrating to a car artist like me than to have a paint job muck up because the surfaces don't work right with the layers I'm trying to lay down.

Oh, and:

26) For pity's sake, FIX THE PHOTO SHARING AND FILE HANDLING! GAH! It made me drop Forza 3 like a rotten potato.

 

[birksy82]

you mean it looks too bad? It's about the same as what I am seeing.

Iv'e edited my last post 👍

 

[JJ72]

Iv'e edited my last post 👍

That is shot off the screen I guess but most standard does look like that, sadly. The track environment is hit and miss too, the general texture resolution is not outstanding and most are really flat.

 

[infamousDee]

To those glorifying FM3's 400, "fully-modelled" cars, higher polygon counts doesn't necessarily imply better graphics. Take this screenshot of a Standard car in GT5, for example. The headlights may be nothing but a flat texture, but it looks convincing nonetheless.

In FM3, however, during gameplay the headlights have no detail in them whatsoever; they're the correct shape, but that's where the similarities end. Coupled with GT5's superior render quality, I know which model I'd take.

 

[JJ72]

I don't know how you can say this is worse than the standard car?

 

[prymet1me]

To those glorifying FM3's 400, "fully-modelled" cars, higher polygon counts doesn't necessarily imply better graphics. Take this screenshot of a Standard car in GT5, for example. The headlights may be nothing but a flat texture, but it looks convincing nonetheless.

In FM3, however, during gameplay the headlights have no detail in them whatsoever; they're the correct shape, but that's where the similarities end. Coupled with GT5's superior render quality, I know which model I'd take.

Whats your point? Its already been discussed GT5 cars rank from Terrible to beautiful. Forzas cars are all consistent.