What does GT5 have over FM3?

[afc2112]

Speak for yourself. Many of us are car collectors, and I don't like the super/muscle car bias of Forza's car list. I mean, yes more of everything is better, but there are no 240SX hatchbacks or Pontiac Fieros in Forza, for instance. T10 neglects the cool but less impressive sports cars in favor of the Porsches and Koenigseggs.

There's Silvias in Forza. It's almost the same car...And as far as the lack of Fieros, at least they have the more important/iconic Firebird.

I for one, am glad they didn't waste any space with the kei cars and such.

 

[Zer0]

The article screams out 'site traffic type of article' from a GT fan. It's not all of C&D's comparison of the games (why is C&D even reviewing games in the first place?!) but rather 1 guy's view on it, a guy which apparently only started working for C&D just 3-4 months ago.

Sadly people have a tendency to think that if a game is harder it instantly means superior physics. In my book, the physics engine is better in GT5, but only by a little bit and not night and day difference like many here imply.

We played with both the controllers and wheel-and-pedal setups--it wouldn't have been fair to the games to not try both--and our story and impressions are based on the whole package.

You can see the wheel right in front of Mr. Sutton in the image on page 2; he just happened to be using the controller when the images were snapped.

C&D ROAD-TEST EDITOR: Mike Sutton
http://blog.caranddriver.com/author/mike-sutton/



It's no rare that a car magazine reviews a car sim and puts on test, would be rare if they review a Singstar game..

Who is the GT fanboy, Alexander Stoklosa the author who said he likes more the Forza gameplay, Erik Johnson who replied in the comments or Mike Sutton who wrote a more detailed opinion in the second page and likes more Forza graphics?

http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...omparison_3a_gti_and_m3_at_laguna_seca_page_2

With all the reverse tracks and different layouts, the same can be said for Gran Turismo. And while GT5 has the track editor (or random track generator, which I find to be more fitting), Forza has the livery editor.

I'll settle for equal amounts of content in both games, but I seriously can't see how GT5 has more than Forza.

GT5 Totals:
27 Environments with 71 Track Layouts + Track Editor(7 environments)

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115188

FM3 Totals: (with packs)
21 Environments with 138 Track Layouts

http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/f...st-[wip]dlc-list-[updated-december-10th].html

It's a car game, more cars and more tracks = more content, GT4 had more content than Forza 2.

 

[prymet1me]

There's Silvias in Forza. It's almost the same car...And as far as the lack of Fieros, at least they have the more important/iconic Firebird.

I for one, am glad they didn't waste any space with the kei cars and such.

👍👍👍 I think the car selection in Forza is Brilliant. I like everything from the Gumpert Apollo to the Abarth 500 all sporty cars unlike the many unusable small 30hp cars sitting in my GT5 garage. People want racing but say FM has too many exotics but post photos of their Lambos, Ferraris and F1 in the GT5 photo thread

 

[TwIsTeD_83]

"What does GT5 have over FM3?"

It's on Ps3

 

[infamousDee]

I don't know how you can say this is worse than the standard car?

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4420/forza46j.jpg

If it weren't for the fact that the polygon count increase tenfold upon entering Photo Mode, I'd have to agree with you.

 

[prymet1me]

If it weren't for the fact that the polygon count increase tenfold upon entering Photo Mode, I'd have to agree with you.

You do bait and troll, but now you just going at it to go at it. Dude the cars in FM look great, some standard gt cars look ok like the Veyron and some look like its on PS2 like the Miata and Motul Civic.

 

[XBOX is KING]

Well Forza 3 sounds better than GT5 but GT5 has the sim down pack as far as console goes

 

[t.o.]

How this thread is continuing is beyond me. Sadly though it's just a bash thread on both sides with a few sprinkles of honest debate here and there. I just feel for people who read some of the tripe people are trying to pass off as facts as actually believe it. To sum up reality BOTH games will give you hours of entertainment if you are a car game fan. One will give you just a bit more if you're into the racing, the other a bit more if you're into the driving and both have enough extras to keep you busy, maybe not equally as busy but it depends on what you're looking for.

My ONLY pointed gripe is I was honestly looking for GT5 to be the "hands down, no debate about it" king of cars in the virtual scene seeing as it had such a long dev period and FM3 was over a year old when GT5 was released. Sorta like comparing NBA 2K10 to NBA 2K11, you'd expect NBA 2K11 to clearly be better. This is my only gripe, I thought we wouldn't even be having this debate but it IS a legit debate because GT5 has not distanced itself from FM3.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

GT5 is a racing game that shockingly has racing as it's prime focus. Forza calls itself a racing game, yet the prime focus is painting and running a store and taking pictures. GT5 has custom lobbies that allow you, the consumer, to race the way you want. Forza has crappy hoppers, which forces you and the dozen or so other people online to race the way T10 wants you to race. FM3 has 20 million credit cars that you as a racer will have to grind for while the real target market, the painters, have garages full of them. GT5 forces everyone to grind for their silly overpriced cars. GT5 has realistic physics and realistic cars. FM3 has arcade PGRish physics and stupid unrealistic cars like 1000 hp 60's era muscle cars with AWD swaps.

I could go on for days here. But in summary, GT5 is the game for serious racers looking for a true racing game with realistic cars and physics with minimal casual fluff. Forza is the game for casual players who like fluff and flash and only want to do a minimal amount of racing in completely unrealistic AWD swapped nonsense.

Oh Really?? Seems you never even played Forza 3

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Hey, I just call 'em as I see 'em. I didn't see any need to drag the extra baggage into a complaint about the livery shop. Both games have plenty to whine about, so here's hoping that GT5 gets a nice progressive face lift over the year, and

Forza 4 is no more buggy and flawed than GT5. And then that Kaz gets his head on straight for GT6.

Forza 4 is not even out yet get your facts straight.

Oh, and on Lawndart's post previous:

Speak for yourself. Many of us are car collectors, and I don't like

the super/muscle car bias of Forza's car list

Yeah right 33 Ferrari's 32 Porsches 12 Lambo's against 50 skylines, 30 s2000's and the list goes on.. I mean, yes more of everything is better, but there are no 240SX hatchbacks or Pontiac Fieros in Forza, for instance.

T10 neglects the cool but less impressive sports cars in favor of the Porsches and Koenigseggs.

Like that's a BAD thing dont get me started about GT5's carlist duder

I'd add a 25 to that list.

25)

Fix the flaws in the car models, especially those that cause the livery editor to fall down go boom. Nothing is more frustrating to a car artist like me than to have a paint job muck up because the surfaces don't work right with the layers I'm trying to lay down.

Have you played Forza 3 ever...??

Oh, and:

26) For pity's sake, FIX THE PHOTO SHARING AND FILE HANDLING! GAH! It made me drop Forza 3 like a rotten potato.

Bollocks

 

[JoeMaPampang]

GT has been designed in such a way that anybody who owns it can own everything in the game (bar the Carbon X1) without ever doing a race themselves.

I can Hire a driver in any race i want in Forza and get the money and the XP

 

[t.o.]

Oh Really?? Seems you never even played Forza 3

It's obvious he hasn't and it's another clear example of what I mean as "tripe being passed off as facts". I watched a real race where NASCAR cars were being driven on Road America. The guy that won the race was the only one who was able to keep his car intact. Everybody and I mean EVERYBODY got some type of damage or another which affected their outcome for the entirety of the race. While FM3 isn't perfect with damage it's light-years ahead of what GT5 is doing. And damage IS part of racing. FM3 you wreck your aero and it affects you for the ENTIRE race. So when you're racing and deciding whether you want to make that risky move in the back of your mind, like a real racer, you have to weigh it and decide is it worth the risk knowing you can occur racing crippling damage. In GT5 the worse can happen is you really trash your ride and have to nurse it back to the pits so they can open a can of "new car" and you continue your race as if nothing happened.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Forza 3 does lean more arcade ( Like Mowtin mention, it has more forgiven physics and wider tracks) but I don't see this a bad thing. Pure hardcore sims just doesn't sale on console. (RacePro) Gt series is probably most hardcore sim with good sales. I think Turn 10 did a good job of have the right mix between sim and arcade and this is what IMO set it apart from GT5.
The same is true with F1 2010. I find both Fm# and F1 2010 a lot of fun. Yet I'm also glad Gt5 continue to be more on the sim side (not perfect yet pretty good for a console title)

 

[JoeMaPampang]

More content? It has more cars, but more events/tracks? Nope. Given that Forza has user created content too, I'd challenge that.

Combine that with the fact that 70% of cars have about 5 custom bodykits that are from real manufacturers like Wald,Tubi, Sparco etc etc.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

It's obvious he hasn't and it's another clear example of what I mean as "tripe being passed off as facts". I watched a real race where NASCAR cars were being driven on Road America. The guy that won the race was the only one who was able to keep his car intact. Everybody and I mean EVERYBODY got some type of damage or another which affected their outcome for the entirety of the race. While FM3 isn't perfect with damage it's light-years ahead of what GT5 is doing. And damage IS part of racing. FM3 you wreck your aero and it affects you for the ENTIRE race. So when you're racing and deciding whether you want to make that risky move in the back of your mind, like a real racer, you have to weigh it and decide is it worth the risk knowing you can occur racing crippling damage. In GT5 the worse can happen is you really trash your ride and have to nurse it back to the pits so they can open a can of "new car" and you continue your race as if nothing happened.

Exactly well said.

 

[Spagetti69]

I can Hire a driver in any race i want in Forza and get the money and the XP

It's optional. 50% of GTs career it is compulsory.

 

[cuco33]

Don't get me wrong im not saying that all the car's look great I have seen other car's which look as bad as this as well. The pictures I was talking about , the whole picture , track , grass , fencing and the car looked terrible a lot worse than in your pics. In the pics you have posted the car's don't look great but the surroundings look good imo and nothing like the pics that I have seen. I was only guessing that they could have been photoshopped I wasn't trying to state a fact I will try and post the pic's that I have seen so you can see what I mean.

Edit:Take this one for example

There's no way that this is taken directly from GT5's photomode it look's like a picture taken of the t.v screen if anything. But would that make it look this bad? I couldn't care less about it tbh as I know the game doesn't look this bad anywhere but I just wanted to clear this up. Also im not a GT fanboy I would even buy Forza 3 if I owned a 360 now. I did have Forza 2 when I had a 360 which I thought was a great game but I don't have the time for 2 consoles worth of games now

Hey don't get me wrong man, I'm not calling you a fanboy. Just making a general statement about how fanboys sometimes go to extremes to attack their 'enemy'. I've seen pshopped Forza images just as I've seen GT.

I agree, some standard cars look great while others have features that stand out really bad. I don't think they are as bad as the Pescarolo shot we've seen before or the one you posted but I haven't come across those cars yet or anything that bad. But the same holds true for tracks where some look fantastic while others have areas that really make you wonder. Nothing is as bad as Forza's spectator claw hands though. I thought we were done with claw hands last gen lol. Yeah it's definitely visual fluff type of thing but if you like photomodes you'll notice these things more often. I hope Forza 4 has active aero like you even see with GT5's standards, and I hope via patch or GT6 will get rid of this whole car disparity between standards and premiums. The competition amongst these two franchises will make us gamers smile more and more with each update.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

It's obvious he hasn't and it's another clear example of what I mean as "tripe being passed off as facts". I watched a real race where NASCAR cars were being driven on Road America. The guy that won the race was the only one who was able to keep his car intact. Everybody and I mean EVERYBODY got some type of damage or another which affected their outcome for the entirety of the race. While FM3 isn't perfect with damage it's light-years ahead of what GT5 is doing. And damage IS part of racing. FM3 you wreck your aero and it affects you for the ENTIRE race. So when you're racing and deciding whether you want to make that risky move in the back of your mind, like a real racer, you have to weigh it and decide is it worth the risk knowing you can occur racing crippling damage. In GT5 the worse can happen is you really trash your ride and have to nurse it back to the pits so they can open a can of "new car" and you continue your race as if nothing happened.

GT5 does have mechanical damage now. Just like Fm3 is far from perfect and a lot more forgiving than IRL. I found i can often do a lot of banging without worrying too much about damage even in Fm3. Even then most of my heavy damage often comes from the AI ramming me in the back.
The feature "fully repair in pit" is just a "gamey" feature which even Iracing has some. It's the same with the feature that automatically puts you back on the track. Totally unrealistic.

 

[Doughnut]

Both games have their pros and cons. The one thing that I think Forza really screwed up was allowing almost all cars to have AWD swaps, and then having AWD cars dominate not only the leaderboards, but the online racing as well.

From a driving standpoint I would take GT5 over Forza 3 any day of the week. From a tuning standpoint I would take Forza 3 over GT5 any day of the week because I enjoy being able to change specific engine parts/suspension parts and then the actual tuning of those parts. One thing that I wish both games had was the ability to tune the amount of boost that turbo's and superchargers (but it's not that big of a deal).

Ideally for me I would love to have Forza 3 and GT5 merge together to add the physics from GT5 with the tuning abilities in Forza 3. Personally I think it's cool that people can do all sorts of designs on Forza 3, but to me that's just a gimmick to get people who don't necessary like racing to play their game (which it obviously works, but doesn't really serve a purpose to me anyways). And to those who complain about GT5 not having cockpit view for every car, I would rather cockpit views be detailed and accurate v.s. the cockpit views in Forza 3. There is absolutely no denying that GT5 cockpit views are 100 times better than Forza 3's cockpit views.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

There is absolutely no denying that GT5 cockpit views are 100 times better than Forza 3's cockpit views.

O really??

 

[cuco33]

Oh, and on Lawndart's post previous:

Speak for yourself. Many of us are car collectors, and I don't like the super/muscle car bias of Forza's car list. I mean, yes more of everything is better, but there are no 240SX hatchbacks or Pontiac Fieros in Forza, for instance. T10 neglects the cool but less impressive sports cars in favor of the Porsches and Koenigseggs.

I'd add a 25 to that list.

25) Fix the flaws in the car models, especially those that cause the livery editor to fall down go boom. Nothing is more frustrating to a car artist like me than to have a paint job muck up because the surfaces don't work right with the layers I'm trying to lay down.

Oh, and:

26) For pity's sake, FIX THE PHOTO SHARING AND FILE HANDLING! GAH! It made me drop Forza 3 like a rotten potato.

I agree with Lawndart on this one. My biggest GT5 gripe of all is the car list and how they are distributed in game (from prize cars to used dealership, it's a little better now with online dealership though). I am not a fan of trucks (outside of rally stuff like Dakar) but in Aspec and Bspec pickup truck races, buying a pick up truck was very hard (not in any dealership pre 1.05 update, gifted to complete IA events, which btw had no license tests with trucks in it) and the prize vehicles you get in both modes are different iterations of a Daihatsu Midget. I mean... really?!

I don't need 50 iterations of Skylines and I'm HUGE Skyline fan. A few handfuls are plenty fine; give me an R32 or R33 or R34 GT-R and maybe 1-2 special models of each is all we really need. If PD even remotely mentions iconic racing cars in their in game museum and Apex book than it should at least be included in game (i.e. E30 M3). I think both titles have plenty of cars to choose from and GT5 having 1000+ cars is impressive on paper but not as much in reality. In my book there's more quality in the cars of FM3 than GT5's massive quantity. I hope DLC comes to GT5 and with it some iconic cars like the E30 M3, and maybe even actually having Porsche, the 'winningest brand in motorsports'. I'd be day 1 buyer with the biggest smile on my face.

I'm 100% in agreement with you on T10 fixing the car models that have the glitches that you can't paint on. I've come across this a few times over the Forza titles and for some reason it's on a car I'm trying to put a custom livery on. Usually I'll just paint the base color what I want in that area (so black if it's a black stripe I want in a non paintable area).

The Forza image exporting thing is beyond easy to upload to fm.net. I mean how much easier is it to press A after you saved the picture you just took since it asks you immediately after the image save screen? It's also very easy to get the images as well. Just log onto your account and save the image to your PC. What I don't like is what you mentioned that it seems to add some filter effect (I barely noticed this but it does something with the colors) and lowers the resolution down. I'd prefer GT5's method of exporting to some console folder and being able to copy the images directly to USB memory stick without effects or downgrading going on. What I find most ironic is how I used to think photomodes were really stupid, barely touched it in GT4 and Forza 1 but come Forza 2 and on, I was all about it.

 

[xgax]

well GT5 is a driving simulator, and forza is a arcade racing game

 

[cuco33]

To those glorifying FM3's 400, "fully-modelled" cars, higher polygon counts doesn't necessarily imply better graphics. Take this screenshot of a Standard car in GT5, for example. The headlights may be nothing but a flat texture, but it looks convincing nonetheless.

In FM3, however, during gameplay the headlights have no detail in them whatsoever; they're the correct shape, but that's where the similarities end. Coupled with GT5's superior render quality, I know which model I'd take.

It does look good, but just like we can cherry pick a good standard example, we can do the same for a bad one.

This was taken by me in game, unedited, and has what you're mentioning about Forza, only in photomode (it doesn't look better in gameplay). Flat texture headlight image that seems to be pasted on the front. I'm a fan of the round headlights in the Rabbit GTI in GT5 and not so much of the square Rabbit GTI headlights in FM3, but the GT5 version just looks I was going to take more pics but the front end, the rear hatch, the jaggies, the bad license plate text.. it all stood out too much.

Not going to glorify FM's car models myself. They look great but compared to GT5's premiums are not a comparison. Unfortunately 80% of GT5's cars are standards and range from very bad port jobs to not bad at all. Forza's advantage is the consistency, like mentioned.

 

[sems4arsenal]

So you have picked the worst possible picture of Standards Yes Most don't look brilliant but the lighting System in GT5 Kind of makes up for them plus the Fact that with little Editing

They don't look that bad .If one day someone combined Forza with GT everybody will win for now though it depends on what you need a Fun casual game or a Hardcore Simulator ?

 

[Tenacious D]

Hey, I just call 'em as I see 'em. I didn't see any need to drag the extra baggage into a complaint about the livery shop. Both games have plenty to whine about, so here's hoping that GT5 gets a nice progressive face lift over the year, and Forza 4 is no more buggy and flawed than GT5. And then that Kaz gets his head on straight for GT6.

Forza 4 is not even out yet get your facts straight.

I know you're from Europe, and English may not be your primary language, but hopefully sentence structure isn't too difficult for you, or you're going to have problems on our boards.

Speak for yourself. Many of us are car collectors, and I don't like the super/muscle car bias of Forza's car list.

Yeah right 33 Ferrari's 32 Porsches 12 Lambo's against 50 skylines, 30 s2000's and the list goes on..

Yes, and some of those Ferraris and Porsches are very minor variations and race cars with different liveries. A few were DLC in FM2 which should have been included on the disc, since they were likewise minor variations. And by the way, I happen to like Skylines, S2000s and the list goes on. I have a number of them in my garage. B-Spec Bob is driving one of them now, an R32 Skyline I race modded. I have a few of each model, so I can have my stock cars, my tuners, and my full blown race cars.

Just because you prefer supercars doesn't make you any more of a car nut or authority than anyone else. In fact, it usually means a youthful bias.

I mean, yes more of everything is better, but there are no 240SX hatchbacks or Pontiac Fieros in Forza, for instance. T10 neglects the cool but less impressive sports cars in favor of the Porsches and Koenigseggs.

Like that's a BAD thing dont get me started about GT5's carlist duder

Yes, obviously I consider a narrower focus a bad thing. But you go ahead and explain how a racing game should only offer very powerful sports cars and racing machines.

25) Fix the flaws in the car models, especially those that cause the livery editor to fall down go boom. Nothing is more frustrating to a car artist like me than to have a paint job muck up because the surfaces don't work right with the layers I'm trying to lay down.

Have you played Forza 3 ever...??

Yes, in fact I pre-ordered the Special Edition and played it almost two months solid. I would ask if you've painted a car in Forza 3 ever.

26) For pity's sake, FIX THE PHOTO SHARING AND FILE HANDLING! GAH! It made me drop Forza 3 like a rotten potato.

Bollocks

Yes, the way the 360 handles large numbers of files, and how T10 ruined photo sharing is indeed bollocks.

By the way, you shouldn't double post, and it would be a good idea to learn how to edit quotes properly. But welcome to the ruff n tumble world of GT Planet.

I don't need 50 iterations of Skylines and I'm HUGE Skyline fan.

The "50 Skylines / Subies / Mitsus" line is getting a little old. Not only do you not have to buy them, you don't even have to wade through them. They're off in car lot limbo or in an isolated showrooms, not hogging space in front of Mustangs or Lamborghinis. I never thought I'd live to see the day that a game would have too many of something. Besides, yes, I do miss those absent models in Forza, which seems to prefer, as I mentioned, having too many duplicate Porsches and other superduper rides.

The Forza image exporting thing is beyond easy to upload to fm.net. I mean how much easier is it to press A after you saved the picture you just took since it asks you immediately after the image save screen?

Yes, the exporting is easy. Assuming you don't take many pics. I've taken a bunch, and it would be no big deal if MS would let me use a nice simple device known as a USB drive to keep the 360 from hurting itself sorting through them all. But I can't, so slogging through images, decals or anything is a time consuming and unnecessary ordeal. And even worse, you can only upload so many at a time. Then, the lovely Forza site mucks them up, as you mentioned, and you have to be a Photoshop master to get them to look decent, which I'm not. So how is this a good thing in any way, shape or form?

It's too bad that the things Forza is supposed to be so good at are marred with issues, much the way GT5 is. Maybe Forza 4 will be the real Forza we've been waiting for, mostly free of bugs and issues, but I'm too used to the status quo with T10. I suppose we'll see at some point this year, if they're right and Forza 4 is due for a holiday lunch.

 

[cuco33]

C&D ROAD-TEST EDITOR: Mike Sutton
http://blog.caranddriver.com/author/mike-sutton/



It's no rare that a car magazine reviews a car sim and puts on test, would be rare if they review a Singstar game..

Who is the GT fanboy, Alexander Stoklosa the author who said he likes more the Forza gameplay, Erik Johnson who replied in the comments or Mike Sutton who wrote a more detailed opinion in the second page and likes more Forza graphics?

http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...omparison_3a_gti_and_m3_at_laguna_seca_page_2

I don't want to sound like a hater here but I don't hold any reviews or articles as the end all be all. There is always some bias and the way the article was written just screams to me that C&D wanted site traffic. What better way than to compare 2 exclusive titles with each other, 1 of which is Sony's biggest franchise of all and the most popular one at that while the other is the new up and comer competitions that rattled up Sony/PD with their releases. All over the web you'll see far too many GT vs FM topics and articles created just for site traffic. Was this article online or in print? Seems they jumped on that bandwagon is what I'm getting at.

The wheel pictured looks to me either as a Logitech one or the Thrustmaster t500rs, both of which aren't compatible with the 360. A better comparison would have been with an MS wheel on both or a 360 compatible Fanatec wheel (Turbo S / GT2) on both. Also like I mentioned in that other thread, they ran only both cars in game around Road Atlanta only 3 laps each. I can be off by 2-3 seconds a lap if I screw up just 1 turn, but they didn't go into the details of their testing, what they used in terms of wheel, if they made any adjustments, etc. In stock form you can adjust tire pressure in FM3 but not in GT5 and that alone can improve (or not) your lap times.

It's a car game, more cars and more tracks = more content, GT4 had more content than Forza 2.

And yet Forza 2 was the better game offering a better package but note that opinions are like *ssholes, everyone has one, and that's just mine. I was not a fan of GT4. The content was great but the game felt the same rehash lacking quite a bit due to lack of competition really (all I wanted was GT3 with more cars/tracks, maybe some more polish and a tweak in physics so long as they added online and a damage system which both didn't come). Then again that was when I was heavy into PC sims.

 

[cuco33]

Yes, obviously I consider a narrower focus a bad thing. But you go ahead and explain how a racing game should only offer very powerful sports cars and racing machines.

Yes, in fact I pre-ordered the Special Edition and played it almost two months solid. I would ask if you've painted a car in Forza 3 ever.

Forza 3 doesn't only offer super cars and exotics, just like GT5 doesn't either. There are those slower cars in FM3 but most have some racing pedigree of some sort, whether pro or amateur. Majority of kei cars and econoboxes in GT5 don't and they will collect digital dust and rot in my GT5 garage (I want the 'own 1000 cars' trophy). There are F class cars in FM3 which fall under the not super and not exotic realm. The 1st car you start off with in career falls in this class. I picked the Honda Fit but there was a selection of a handful of cars as starting cars to choose from. What's funny is that I spent more time painting it than racing it (Spoon theme)
I do wish that the old Fiat 500, preferably Abarth, was in Forza 3 though. Living in Italy for 9 months made me really appreciate this car.

You said you played FM3, but it seems you don't even remember any of the non super/exotics? Like I mentioned, the very first car you start your career with is in the slowest car class and the selection, for the most part, is rather blah (Honda Fit, Ford Fiesta, Citroen C4 VTS, Scion xD, Chevy Aveo, Toyota Yaris, Nissan Versa)

 

[RWB1213]

Sans the dropping of public lobbies in FM3 and the addition of rewinds (which is afterall optional), the Forza Franchise is moving forward and in many ways past GT. Criticise the graphics all you want, the frame rate stays true without tearing. You may only get 8 in the online lobby, but the play is solid and smooth . . . GT5 struggles to stay smooth even in A spec races. Nobody loves motorsport photography more than I, but I'm not going to even try to hold either title up to actually going to a track and shooting (which I do several times per year.)

The GT franchise seems to be falling behind, or perhaps just not advancing. Improved graphics and sunsets with 30 versions of the Miata isn't enough for me. I have a buddy who picked up GT5, and he told me he learned a trick last weekend, just throw the car into the corner and use the AI as a guardrail . . . I told him it's been that way with every GT title, he asked "Why haven't they fixed that?" I told him "Because PD doesn't think they have to." GT5's AI is defenselessly bad. If GT5 didn't have online racing I'd be out now.

The GT franchise has always been the high bar for console driving games. But after playing this title daily since release (a-29/b-17/60goldlic) methinks T10 must be preparing to take the crown next Holiday Season.

 

[tigermilk]

To recap:
Oversteer in FM3 is too easy to catch
FM3 has hidden steering assists that give the game an arcadey feel.
Generally FM3 is too forgiving.

FM3 can be a little deceptive because when you drive well it's hard to see the flaws. It's when you try to make novice mistakes that you realize that the game will prevent you from making those mistakes.

Maybe it's because I'm a bad driver who often makes mistakes that I notice the problems in FM3 more. Also I suspect those who play with a gamepad may not experience any differences because both FM3 and GT5 help gamepad players steer.

FYI, I drive both FM3 and GT5 with the gamepads. All assists off in FM3 and only ABS at 1 in GT5. I find oversteer MUCH easier to catch in GT5. I've blown countless races in FM3 via oversteer mistakes. Perhaps it's because GT5 just doesn't push me as hard, but there have been no issues like that in GT5 for me.

 

[birksy82]

Hey don't get me wrong man, I'm not calling you a fanboy. Just making a general statement about how fanboys sometimes go to extremes to attack their 'enemy'. I've seen pshopped Forza images just as I've seen GT.

I agree, some standard cars look great while others have features that stand out really bad. I don't think they are as bad as the Pescarolo shot we've seen before or the one you posted but I haven't come across those cars yet or anything that bad. But the same holds true for tracks where some look fantastic while others have areas that really make you wonder. Nothing is as bad as Forza's spectator claw hands though. I thought we were done with claw hands last gen lol. Yeah it's definitely visual fluff type of thing but if you like photomodes you'll notice these things more often. I hope Forza 4 has active aero like you even see with GT5's standards, and I hope via patch or GT6 will get rid of this whole car disparity between standards and premiums. The competition amongst these two franchises will make us gamers smile more and more with each update.

I had to point out that I'm not a fanboy , not to you as I didn't think you were saying that , but just for the record 👍 .