What does GT5 have over FM3?

[JoeMaPampang]

Sorry, but with regards to level of detail, GT5 has the upper hand. What you seem to like is the unrealistic lighting that Forza likes to use.

What's the point if most of the race cars in FM3 don't have PROPERLY working cockpits. Most R1 class cars don't even have working cockpits. Please do explain.

EDIT: Also, Forza's cockpit view has too wide an FOV for a single-screen setup. This leads to an unrealistic sense of speed. In GT5, you can adjust this FOV with the 3 options: "Wide, Zoom, Extra Zoom". InsideSimRacing has said that they feel that "Zoom" leads to a realistic sense of speed and I agree with them there.
In Forza, I get too much of the "fish-eye effect."

I know i have both games and i will confirm that GT5 interiors are a step up from Forza's Even shift has better lighting in cockpit view. But on the other hand they ALL have cockpits and they are NOT bad looking at all. I love GT5 interior view because it really feels like you are driving the car.

I dont know what you are talking about in regards too the R1 class cars. because they are ALL working. (Why? because i own them all in Forza) so i know by on hand experience. On another note in GT5 i can't see the numbers and speedometer of most cars. Its too blurry and i have a 42 inch.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Both games do truly suffer from a syndrome of a couple of contenders and a ton of back markers. In FM3, as long as my performance index is near the top 2-3 cars, it's a hard race. It's a huge challenge to win, either chasing down the lead or second place car or trying to stay out front. I can count on one hand the number of races (straight up races) in GT5 that have been challenging. The seasonal event races introduced much greater challenge, but then PD goes and dumbs them down. I beat this last round first try with nothing more than an upgrade to soft tires.

EXACTLY SPOT ON:tup:

 

[JoeMaPampang]

The forza 3 photomode is terrible and the modelling of most of the cars is just wrong.

O really.....

Than how did they pull this of then?

 

[Pierced Lead]

Isn't that a bullshot?

 

[RWB1213]

EDIT: Also, Forza's cockpit view has too wide an FOV for a single-screen setup. This leads to an unrealistic sense of speed. In GT5, you can adjust this FOV with the 3 options: "Wide, Zoom, Extra Zoom". InsideSimRacing has said that they feel that "Zoom" leads to a realistic sense of speed and I agree with them there.
In Forza, I get too much of the "fish-eye effect."

Actually- GT5 offers only three FOV settings, FM3 offers near infinite. Do you know how to change FOV in FM3? I'm guessing not, so here it is, change the video setup to three screens (you'll only be using the center,) once you make the change you can adjust both seating postion and FOV angle on sliders. You'll be able to achieve the exact FOV which fits your taste. FM3 has the best FOV configurability of any console racer, it's just buried behind the three screen setup.

 

[Barso]

I will admit that those photos look great but goto the the forza forums and point me to one photo that isn't doctored by upscaling. Even on your photos, where is the compression artifacts?
You can tell by the F symbol bottom left.
One example is the F40 print on the rear wing of the F40, in GT5 gameply it is clearly stamped into the wing but in Forza3 ingame, it's a simple print but photomode swaps to the GT5 model.

 

[Zer0]

FM3 has the best FOV configurability of any console racer, it's just buried behind the three screen setup.

More like an unexpected find, you can't look left and right during gameplay because the game thinks that you are playing with 3 screens.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Isn't that a bullshot?

No it is straight from Forza motorsport forum. Forza has amazing details like this. I dont understand that all these fanboys keep claiming the models arent properly modeled. I have found more inconsistancies in GT5 preium models. Forza's lighting engine just sucks hardcore. if it had a lighting engine like GT5 and GT5P it would also be as nice and crisp in game. With inconsistancies in mean minimal polygons on round edges like headlights and roundings. Go check in photomode. Not saying the models are not good but even premiums are inconsistant.

 

[Zer0]

No it is straight from Forza motorsport forum. Forza has amazing details like this. I dont understand that all these fanboys keep claiming the models arent properly modeled. I have found more inconsistancies in GT5 preium models. Forza's lighting engine just sucks hardcore. if it had a lighting engine like GT5 and GT5P it would also be as nice and crisp in game. With inconsistancies in mean minimal polygons on round edges like headlights and roundings. Go check in photomode. Not saying the models are not good but even premiums are inconsistant.

That is because GT5 do not swap models in photomode, that photo shows what you see ingame.

Instead Forza ingame cars are lower in detail but are swaped to a better quality in photomode:

 

[LJ]

Gran Turismo 5 is the greatest car collecting game ever made period! Just go online looking for a race, half of the lobbies are people trading cars

 

[Afro1]

That is because GT5 do not swap models in photomode, that photo shows what you see ingame.

Instead Forza ingame cars are lower in detail but are swaped to a better quality in photomode:

Damn you just owned him.

 

[Barso]

And that's what ruins forza3 photomode.
The compression and model swap makes it useless.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

Am I the only racer that wishes that someone, anyone, would develop a console game called Photoshop Pro? That way they could take all this photomode stupidity out of racing games and return the focus to you know, that novel idea of racing. All the picture gamers could go play the picture game, maybe even expand their picture taking beyond cars, and us racers can actually get back to having real racing games.

 

[Afro1]

Am I the only racer that wishes that someone, anyone, would develop a console game called Photoshop Pro? That way they could take all this photomode stupidity out of racing games and return the focus to you know, that novel idea of racing. All the picture gamers could go play the picture game, maybe even expand their picture taking beyond cars, and us racers can actually get back to having real racing games.

Agreed.
I would really love to have a game which didnt focus on graphics. Imagine having 300 decent cars with mediocre PS2 graphics but a proper physics engine and all cars have cockpit view.
Also forget all those new super cars, where's my classic lambos and jags?
This is why I always class NFS HP3 as the best racing game:
proper cars, challenging AI and good track design.

 

[Spagetti69]

Agreed Dawg. It's the majority of people clamouring for better graphics that screw up the core gameplay.

Recently just started playing live for speed on a low end laptop ( my PC is crap ).
Graphics are nowhere near the level of GT.
Thing is I don't give a damn. The physics are top notch and full racing regulations are prominent.

Much more important than the graphics. I've always said GT is about the graphics first and formost. Until PD threw the standard curveball anyway.

 

[t.o.]

That is because GT5 do not swap models in photomode, that photo shows what you see ingame.

Instead Forza ingame cars are lower in detail but are swaped to a better quality in photomode:

First off those two pictures aren't taken at the same "camera" settings. Look at the background between both photos around the car. The angles are off. If angle are off you can't make any comparisons between photos and pawn them off as Bible. Look to the right of the photo on top, you can see grass between the wall and the top of the hood, now look in the second photo. The grass is gone. Why? Because the photo was taken at different angles. This would EASILY explain all these some of these "gotchas". There is NO model swap going on. But from photomode to gamemode BOTH games go into a different "program" for viewing. Come on guys you have to do better than this, who would be slow enough to fall for this?

Damn you just owned him.

Oh , my bad. lol j/k


Look at this photo I took of a SuperGT car in GT5. Look how everything is completely off and how stretched out the hood looks. Looks nothing like the real car.

Of course this is a bogus photo because I skewed the image. Clear example of the same thing with those two photos.

 

[IncredibleMind]

Your first line... I dunno, going to leave it be..

I didn't downplay anything. If you buy a wheel for PS3, you can do the same for 360 (unless you get a wheel which works on both). You could push the brand loyalist stance by claiming that you absolutely need to buy a 360 wheel neglecting the fact you already bought a wheel for PS3, although I'd get not wanting to buy another wheel because you already own one that works with PS3. I'd personally want to own 1 wheel for all platforms rather than multiple wheels for multiple platforms. I already have a good PC wheel which I haven't been able to get working with PS3 (Logitech Momo Force, and here I was thinking 'any FFB wheel easily works with PS3'). I'm waiting for Fanatec to have the CS pedals back in stock because I want 1 high quality wheel/pedals that works on all 3 platforms (911 GT2 w/CS pedals). No point in spending $100 for lower quality MS/Madcatz/obsolete and old Logi wheel followed by $300 for a G27 when for $100 more I get 1 better wheel/pedal set that works on all 3 platforms.
I'm very firm on my stance of MS not actually pushing to open their 3rd party wheel support. I lurk here more than I post, same as I do on a few other boards but usually you'd see me say if MS wants to be serious about sims and winning the sim fans over, all they'd need to start doing is opening wheel support. MS uses a different FFB system though (XID) than PS3/PC (HID) but ultimately they should be opening their licenses to all or actually contracting these wheel makers to make one for them (I doubt the MS wheel was a profitable venture for MS). In the end it's the console manufacturer's stance, not game developers. I'm sure T10 would want more wheels to work than the 5 that has worked so far.

You don't have to leave anything be...

1. Sony's online is free.
2. I don't have to worry about my system RROD'ing
3. It comes on a virtually indestructible bluray as opposed to the DVD of the Xbox which is prone to scratching.
4. The multiplats are practically identical.
5. The exclusives of PS3 trump the Xbox IMO.

So yes, I have my reasons for preferring the PS3 and if you or anybody else doesn't like it that's fine with me. My brand loyalty at this point is based strictly on quality control. If the Xbox 360 had the advantages of the PS3 my brand loyalty would be with MS.


As for the wheel you are downplaying it. The Fanatec wheel that's compatible with both costs more than the XBox. The way I see it, I may as well buy a T500RS for a bit more money and have a much higher quality wheel.

 

[RWB1213]

More like an unexpected find, you can't look left and right during gameplay because the game thinks that you are playing with 3 screens.

Not true, in FM3 you can still map in look left and look right either to buttons or the analog stick, you just lose the ability to do it analog (with a gradual head turn.) Works just fine for me, right analog stick allow left/right/rear view- with altered/customized FOV settings.

In GT5 you can't move the look back to the right analog stick- lame.

 

[tigermilk]

You don't have to leave anything be...

1. Sony's online is free.
2. I don't have to worry about my system RROD'ing
3. It comes on a virtually indestructible bluray as opposed to the DVD of the Xbox which is prone to scratching.
4. The multiplats are practically identical.
5. The exclusives of PS3 trump the Xbox IMO.

1. Yes, and in some cases you get what you do (or don't) pay for.
2. But you do have to worry about YLOD'ing. Granted, I had 2 360s go belly up and both covered under warranty. I bought a newer one that has been rock solid. I'd say most of the QA issues that plagued them in the first 1-2 years are mostly gone.
3. Agreed. And Blu-Ray was pretty much the reason I got a PS3.
4. Agreed, though the 360 controller in my opinion is MUCH better than the PS3 controller. It's just that most are used to it after using it for over 10 years. For me, controller preference changed with the Dreamcast. Ever since then it's been DC, Xbox, and 360 controllers at the top of my list.
5. About equal IMO.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

More like an unexpected find, you can't look left and right during gameplay because the game thinks that you are playing with 3 screens.

Exactly and to me this is a serious handicap.
Without triple screen or head tracking I prefer the wider angle when using cockpit view. The narrow angle does give you better sense of speed but I don't like losing the view from my mirrors even if they are limited. I would like cockpit view a lot better if I had the bumper view mirror.

 

[Afro1]

First off those two pictures aren't taken at the same "camera" settings. Look at the background between both photos around the car. The angles are off. If angle are off you can't make any comparisons between photos and pawn them off as Bible. Look to the right of the photo on top, you can see grass between the wall and the top of the hood, now look in the second photo. The grass is gone. Why? Because the photo was taken at different angles. This would EASILY explain all these some of these "gotchas". There is NO model swap going on. But from photomode to gamemode BOTH games go into a different "program" for viewing. Come on guys you have to do better than this, who would be slow enough to fall for this?



Oh , my bad. lol j/k


Look at this photo I took of a SuperGT car in GT5. Look how everything is completely off and how stretched out the hood looks. Looks nothing like the real car.

Of course this is a bogus photo because I skewed the image. Clear example of the same thing with those two photos.

It dosen't matter about the view, it is pretty much the same.
The view wouldnt change the details in anyway just the perspective.
Also you can obviously tell it's not stretched the aspect is exactly the same and the picture would of been warped a little.

Come on mate, face it.

 

[IncredibleMind]

1. Yes, and in some cases you get what you do (or don't) pay for.
2. But you do have to worry about YLOD'ing. Granted, I had 2 360s go belly up and both covered under warranty. I bought a newer one that has been rock solid. I'd say most of the QA issues that plagued them in the first 1-2 years are mostly gone.
3. Agreed. And Blu-Ray was pretty much the reason I got a PS3.
4. Agreed, though the 360 controller in my opinion is MUCH better than the PS3 controller. It's just that most are used to it after using it for over 10 years. For me, controller preference changed with the Dreamcast. Ever since then it's been DC, Xbox, and 360 controllers at the top of my list.
5. About equal IMO.

1. In some cases but not nearly enough. If you just have to communicate with your friends via voice chat and Xbox live then I understand.

2. It wasn't the first 1-2 years. It was an issue until the XBox slim, which we are assuming won't start croaking soon as well. The YLOD is a lot less frequent than the RROD.

3. Yep.

4. Not an issue at all for me. As you've said, most of us have gamed on the DS3 so long that the controller is an afterthought. I'm never thinking about the controller when I'm immersed in a game.

5. Only if you're not into the action adventure titles. In that regard the lineup of the PS3 just absolutely blows the 360s out of the water, especially this year. So far the first three months give LBP2, KZ3 and Motorstorm Apocalypse which all look amazing.

 

[t.o.]

It dosen't matter about the view, it is pretty much the same.
The view wouldnt change the details in anyway just the perspective.
Also you can obviously tell it's not stretched the aspect is exactly the same and the picture would of been warped a little.

Come on mate, face it.

Dude with photos unless the camera settings are EXACT anything you see can't be taken as the truth. Camera "tricks" have been going on since the beginning of the camera. It very much does matter about the view, "pretty much the same" doesn't cut it when you are trying to compare details. Car models are NOT swapped but going into photomode does take you into another mode in the game that is different than in-game. But that's for both games. The photos prove nothing more than the game goes into a different mode when racing versus taking pictures. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[JeffKill]

Dude with photos unless the camera settings are EXACT anything you see can't be taken as the truth. Camera "tricks" have been going on since the beginning of the camera. It very much does matter about the view, "pretty much the same" doesn't cut it when you are trying to compare details. Car models are NOT swapped but going into photomode does take you into another mode in the game that is different than in-game. But that's for both games. The photos prove nothing more than the game goes into a different mode when racing versus taking pictures. Nothing more, nothing less.

So the fact that the headlights are round in the photomode pic, and not in the other, was a camera "trick"??

 

[Afro1]

Dude with photos unless the camera settings are EXACT anything you see can't be taken as the truth. Camera "tricks" have been going on since the beginning of the camera. It very much does matter about the view, "pretty much the same" doesn't cut it when you are trying to compare details. Car models are NOT swapped but going into photomode does take you into another mode in the game that is different than in-game. But that's for both games.

Dude I've read up about this plenty of times (Forza model swapping).
I can't remember the article but it said something about:
Photomode polygons: 20,000+
In garage: 13,000 (or something)
In game: (10,000-11,000)

Dude it is no camera trick, its cold hard facts.
Thats like someone denying that a Prius is more economic than a aston martin. Pretty obvious.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Both games do truly suffer from a syndrome of a couple of contenders and a ton of back markers. In FM3, as long as my performance index is near the top 2-3 cars, it's a hard race. It's a huge challenge to win, either chasing down the lead or second place car or trying to stay out front. I can count on one hand the number of races (straight up races) in GT5 that have been challenging. The seasonal event races introduced much greater challenge, but then PD goes and dumbs them down. I beat this last round first try with nothing more than an upgrade to soft tires.

I would say in GT5 upgrading tires has the biggest impact on the car in every area than any other upgrade. So having your tires one grade higher in GT5 than the AI is a lot like racing a class "A" car in a class"C" or "B" race in Forza 3. As you noted you have to resist upgrading and tuning your car to have any kind of challenge. But if you use upgrades you will blow them away in both games.

There were one of the seasonal challenges where I did a lot of (cheap) upgrades to the car and barely made a different in lap time. Finally after I failed to catch the leader I went one tire grade higher and knock off around 4 second a lap and blow the AI away.

 

[mcm127]

Exactly and to me this is a serious handicap.
Without triple screen or head tracking I prefer the wider angle when using cockpit view. The narrow angle does give you better sense of speed but I don't like losing the view from my mirrors even if they are limited. I would like cockpit view a lot better if I had the bumper view mirror.

You can look left and right in GT5? Hahaha.. How? I honestly did not know this!

 

[JoeMaPampang]

I will admit that those photos look great but goto the the forza forums and point me to one photo that isn't doctored by upscaling. Even on your photos, where is the compression artifacts?
You can tell by the F symbol bottom left.
One example is the F40 print on the rear wing of the F40, in GT5 gameply it is clearly stamped into the wing but in Forza3 ingame, it's a simple print but photomode swaps to the GT5 model.

O really...Ferrari F40 Competitione

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

You can look left and right in GT5? Hahaha.. How? I honestly did not know this!

Either with head tracking or d-pad.

 

[t.o.]

So the fact that the headlights are round in the photomode pic, and not in the other, was a camera "trick"??

Dude I've read up about this plenty of times (Forza model swapping).
I can't remember the article but it said something about:
Photomode polygons: 20,000+
In garage: 13,000 (or something)
In game: (10,000-11,000)

Dude it is no camera trick, its cold hard facts.
Thats like someone denying that a Prius is more economic than a aston martin. Pretty obvious.

It's the same models being rendered in different res and polycounts. The polycounts get knocked down when in game versus photomode.