What does GT5 have over FM3?

[cuco33]

I wouldn't recommend ANYONE to buy an Xbox for Forza 3 and some multiplats that are 98% the same.

However, if you started on an Xbox, at this point I'd definitely recommend you get a PS3 not just for GT5, but really for all of the great exclusives that it has.

You won't recommend anyone to buy console X for game Y and multiplats Z but would recommend someone to buy console X for game Y and multiplats Z?


Spoken like a true... well.. nevermind.
I bought PS consoles mainly for GT games as well as all the exclusives. I bought MS consoles mainly for Forzas as well as the exclusives. I built a PC for certain PC sims as well as other games on PC (not really exclusive, I just preferred them on PC). I am looking to build/buy a new PC rig for running PC sims and other games. Only reasons why you'd not buy more than the preferred console is because you're a brand loyalist or don't have the time/money for it. Usually it's the former because if you blog about gaming, you have the time and means to make money for it. This isn't a $2500 PC rig, an xbox can be had new for $200, with new copies of Forza UC for $30. Just sayin...

 

[NOS Waster]

Probably moaning about how bad the graphics of iRacing are compared to Forza and GT. You know, once you've been to console racers, you just can't go back...

Hardly. The graphics of iRacing isn't terrible, and since everything else in it is leaps and bounds ahead of console sims (Besides the car count, the track count is ahead of BOTH games), it's no wonder why I love it more than GT5.

I also love GT5. I'm working on getting 100% here then will reassess whether I will keep playing.

And the last statement is entirely untrue.
I can't tell you how many people I've seen on the iRacing forums that bought GT5 and sold it back in the same day.

 

[MowTin]

Hardly. The graphics of iRacing isn't terrible, and since everything else in it is leaps and bounds ahead of console sims (Besides the car count, the track count is ahead of BOTH games), it's no wonder why I love it more than GT5.

I also love GT5. I'm working on getting 100% here then will reassess whether I will keep playing.

And the last statement is entirely untrue.
I can't tell you how many people I've seen on the iRacing forums that bought GT5 and sold it back in the same day.

I tried to get into iRacing. I had a subscription for many months but almost never played.

1. Not many cars and you have to pay extra for every car and track.
2. The graphics are very sterile especially the lighting.
3. No single player to have fun while improving your skills.
4. You have to jump through hoops to race. It's so serious.
5. No aids, no ABS so rough for people new to sim racing.
6. No cool Top Gear type super cars.

I would just prefer a sim with fun game elements. My ideal game would be hardcore sim physics in TDU.

 

[James1436]

GT5 is the love of racing.
Forza 3 is the love of cars.

You can see Forza 3's car love, in the upcoming Forza 4, there will be a feature that tells you about the cars, and lets you look around the interiors.

Forza 3 has more stuff to do with cars, customize turbo's, superchargers, bodykits, put roll bars on any car, getting replica paintjobs. I think turn 10 really tries to bring the cars out as best they can. All the sounds are recorded in real life, cockpits may not have the best animations/textures, but if you notice carefully you can see the window buttons, the abs/tc button, the heater and airbag warnings.

The game is easy, I will admit. But the cars act as they should in real life. That mercedes sls amg, after driving it and watching the topgear episode where they mentioned it large amounts of oversteer, brought a big grin to my face. Driving a Audi rs4 feeling that grip, is just great. Driving a Honda and feeling that Vtec kick in yo at just over 6000revs, is just a sign of how much effort turn10 uses creates each car.

Yes, many aspects of the effects are not realistic, oversteer is to easy to control, you cannot feel the elevation changing, there aren't enough bumps. But how often the car oversteer, feeling the weight of the car throwing it off the road, very good.

Now gt5, it is a game for where the development is for racing passion. You can tell, that 24hour nurburgring video from Kaz is amazing, and shows you the passion he has for racing. Rally racing, go carts, weather, and how the cars react to the tracks. Gt5 probably is better then Forza 3, but for me, I love cars more than racing, so ill be sticking with Forza 3.

 

[prymet1me]

GT5 is the love of racing.
Forza 3 is the love of cars.

You can see Forza 3's car love, in the upcoming Forza 4, there will be a feature that tells you about the cars, and lets you look around the interiors.

Forza 3 has more stuff to do with cars, customize turbo's, superchargers, bodykits, put roll bars on any car, getting replica paintjobs. I think turn 10 really tries to bring the cars out as best they can. All the sounds are recorded in real life, cockpits may not have the best animations/textures, but if you notice carefully you can see the window buttons, the abs/tc button, the heater and airbag warnings.

The game is easy, I will admit. But the cars act as they should in real life. That mercedes sls amg, after driving it and watching the topgear episode where they mentioned it large amounts of oversteer, brought a big grin to my face. Driving a Audi rs4 feeling that grip, is just great. Driving a Honda and feeling that Vtec kick in yo at just over 6000revs, is just a sign of how much effort turn10 uses creates each car.

Yes, many aspects of the effects are not realistic, oversteer is to easy to control, you cannot feel the elevation changing, there aren't enough bumps. But how often the car oversteer, feeling the weight of the car throwing it off the road, very good.

Now gt5, it is a game for where the development is for racing passion. You can tell, that 24hour nurburgring video from Kaz is amazing, and shows you the passion he has for racing. Rally racing, go carts, weather, and how the cars react to the tracks. Gt5 probably is better then Forza 3, but for me, I love cars more than racing, so ill be sticking with Forza 3.

There are cars in my FM garage that I just have so much pixel "love" for, like my 69 maro with the Yenko design on it. Customizing the cars gives me so much more feeling with the actual car, even if its a Frankenstein FF car with a big motor and twin turbos and massive torque steer and nose diving lol.

 

[Zer0]

Hardly. The graphics of iRacing isn't terrible, and since everything else in it is leaps and bounds ahead of console sims (Besides the car count, the track count is ahead of BOTH games), it's no wonder why I love it more than GT5.

And the last statement is entirely untrue.
I can't tell you how many people I've seen on the iRacing forums that bought GT5 and sold it back in the same day.

They didn't like the intro?

Car count means a lot more varied racing and sim experience, same with the track type and condition: snow, gravel, rain, night, dynamic weather and dynamic time transitions. Neither of those things can be experienced in iRacing, so in that regards the simulation is more limited.

 

[IncredibleMind]

You won't recommend anyone to buy console X for game Y and multiplats Z but would recommend someone to buy console X for game Y and multiplats Z?


Spoken like a true... well.. nevermind.
I bought PS consoles mainly for GT games as well as all the exclusives. I bought MS consoles mainly for Forzas as well as the exclusives. I built a PC for certain PC sims as well as other games on PC (not really exclusive, I just preferred them on PC). I am looking to build/buy a new PC rig for running PC sims and other games. Only reasons why you'd not buy more than the preferred console is because you're a brand loyalist or don't have the time/money for it. Usually it's the former because if you blog about gaming, you have the time and means to make money for it. This isn't a $2500 PC rig, an xbox can be had new for $200, with new copies of Forza UC for $30. Just sayin...

This message is wrong on so many different levels.

As I've said before, at the current time it makes absolutely NO sense to pick up an Xbox for Forza 3 alone, specifically if you already own a PS3. The only exclusive that is being released this year aside from Forza 4 is Gears of War 3.

Also, is it possible that the average person doesn't have as much time or money to play video games as yourself? But wait, because someone posts on a forum they have the time AND money.

Also, your price points are wrong. It's going to cost more than that for the Xbox alone unless you get lucky. Go to amazon and you can't get a 4 GB for less than $240. When you add the proprietary hard drive which is an extra $130 your numbers go out of the window.

And NO, I wouldn't recommend ANYONE pick up a PS3 for GT5 alone. It would be foolish unless they have a surplus of cash.

If this angers you maybe it puts you squarely in the category of a true...well.. nevermind.

 

[t.o.]

GT5 is the love of racing.
Forza 3 is the love of cars.

I disagree with this. GT5 is the love of DRIVING cars. FM3 is the love of RACING cars. GT5 is trying to get there but isn't yet. FM3 just has too much pertaining to racing over GT5 to ignore. The covers say it best:
GT5:The Real Driving Simulator
FM3: Forza Motorsport 3

 

[IncredibleMind]

I tried to get into iRacing. I had a subscription for many months but almost never played.

1. Not many cars and you have to pay extra for every car and track.
2. The graphics are very sterile especially the lighting.
3. No single player to have fun while improving your skills.
4. You have to jump through hoops to race. It's so serious.
5. No aids, no ABS so rough for people new to sim racing.
6. No cool Top Gear type super cars.

I would just prefer a sim with fun game elements. My ideal game would be hardcore sim physics in TDU.

Bottom line, they're going after two different crowds. Of course there will be overlap but games like iRacing appeal to a niche market whereas GT5 is going after a larger segment of people.

As the other poster said though, GT5 can't compete with iRacing in terms of overall realism and doesn't even attempt to.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Names dont mean anything.

Admittedly, GT5 love of racing doesnt wash, the AI stinks and the races arent that fun. FM's raced are more challenging.

 

[t.o.]

This message is wrong on so many different levels.

As I've said before, at the current time it makes absolutely NO sense to pick up an Xbox for Forza 3 alone, specifically if you already own a PS3. The only exclusive that is being released this year aside from Forza 4 is Gears of War 3.

Also, is it possible that the average person doesn't have as much time or money to play video games as yourself? But wait, because someone posts on a forum they have the time AND money.

Also, your price points are wrong. It's going to cost more than that for the Xbox alone unless you get lucky. Go to amazon and you can't get a 4 GB for less than $240. When you add the proprietary hard drive which is an extra $130 your numbers go out of the window.

And NO, I wouldn't recommend ANYONE pick up a PS3 for GT5 alone. It would be foolish unless they have a surplus of cash.

If this angers you maybe it puts you squarely in the category of a true...well.. nevermind.

You can use a USB drive now. No need to get the harddrive. Also, if this imaginary person who is tight for cash I don't see them buying a plethora of brand new titles which leaves older exclusives for this person to buy used and the 360 has many of them.

If a person owns a PS3 I would have to think a bit if buying the 360 for FM3 alone is worth the purchase, I would probably say no. When the 360 Arcades were out for 150 new (and they were out there at Best Buy and other places) I would definitely recommend getting it for FM3. I can't recommend someone with a 360 to get the PS3 for GT5 alone. Can't do it. If they planned to use it as a bluray player and streaming content from home computers then I say sure, but not for GT5 alone.

 

[IncredibleMind]

You can use a USB drive now. No need to get the harddrive. Also, if this imaginary person who is tight for cash I don't see them buying a plethora of brand new titles which leaves older exclusives for this person the buy used and the 360 has many of them.

If a person owns a PS3 I would have to think a bit if buying the 360 for FM3 alone is worth the purchase, I would probably say no. When the 360 Arcades were out for 150 new (and they were out there at Best Buy and other places) I would definitely recommend getting it for FM3. I can't recommend someone with a 360 to get the PS3 for GT5 alone. Can't do it. If they planned to use it as a bluray player and streaming content from home computers then I say sure, but not for GT5 alone.

That's my entire point.

However, it doesn't have to be a matter of being tight for cash.

For example, if you own a PS3 already, you'll probably be buying LBP2 on Tues. Then you'll be purchasing KillZone 3 on 2/22. Then all the other exclusives and multiplats. The time factor plays just as heavily as the cash.

 

[t.o.]

That's my entire point.

However, it doesn't have to be a matter of being tight for cash.

For example, if you own a PS3 already, you'll probably be buying LBP2 on Tues. Then you'll be purchasing KillZone 3 on 2/22. Then all the other exclusives and multiplats. The time factor plays just as heavily as the cash.

Problem is most people I know with PS3's were really on it for GT5 (we were all waiting forever), MLB series and really that's it. The other titles just don't have "it" for me and the others I know. While the 360 is always , seemingly, coming out with something. And usually multiplats get the shaft one way or the other on the PS3 compared to the 360. LBP is a title I'm still trying to figure out how it sells. lol

I'm mainly into sports, thus the racing, and I have to tell you the only thing the PS3 has over the 360 is baseball and that's soon to be neutralized.

 

[IncredibleMind]

Problem is most people I know with PS3's were really on it for GT5 (we were all waiting forever), MLB series and really that's it. The other titles just don't have "it" for me and the others I know. While the 360 is always , seemingly, coming out with something. And usually multiplats get the shaft one way or the other on the PS3 compared to the 360. LBP is a title I'm still trying to figure out how it sells. lol

I'm mainly into sports, thus the racing, and I have to tell you the only thing the PS3 has over the 360 is baseball and that's soon to be neutralized.

Well, I could've told you off top that GT5 wasn't going to be much different than GT5p and probably would've recommended you hold your money.

If you're only into sports, you only need one system and in your case the Xbox more than suffices. If you're an all around gamer the other stuff like LBP, Uncharted, Infamous, etc, the PS3 is a must purchase. I have friends who only like sports titles like yourself who wouldn't touch those games either.

 

[cuco33]

This message is wrong on so many different levels.

As I've said before, at the current time it makes absolutely NO sense to pick up an Xbox for Forza 3 alone, specifically if you already own a PS3. The only exclusive that is being released this year aside from Forza 4 is Gears of War 3.

Also, is it possible that the average person doesn't have as much time or money to play video games as yourself? But wait, because someone posts on a forum they have the time AND money.

Also, your price points are wrong. It's going to cost more than that for the Xbox alone unless you get lucky. Go to amazon and you can't get a 4 GB for less than $240. When you add the proprietary hard drive which is an extra $130 your numbers go out of the window.

And NO, I wouldn't recommend ANYONE pick up a PS3 for GT5 alone. It would be foolish unless they have a surplus of cash.

If this angers you maybe it puts you squarely in the category of a true...well.. nevermind.

Let me rephrase it... if you have the time and money then there is no reason to NOT get a 360 and F3UC (or any other game for that matter) outside of brand loyalty. It's OK to not have the time/money folks, I was once there. I'm a gamer though, not a brand loyalist. I want access to all the gaming aisles at Best Buy or Walmart, not just 1. Great games, better running multiplats and exclusives, are on both platforms. If you like GT5, you'll like Forza 3, and if you like Forza 3 you'll like GT5. I personally love both franchises and know both have their pros and cons when comparing each other.That's my view on it though and nothing anyone can say will change it.

Like mentioned, 'arcade slims' which comes with 4gb internal, can use any USB device for storage and costs $200 new. The F3UC only costs $30 new. Of course, that's racing with controller so you'd have to spend a bit to get a wheel (which is exactly what you'd do for PS3). I know people who bought PS consoles specifically for GT games, me being one of them and mind you this was true for each generation. I also know people who built up a powerful gaming rig for the best racing sim experience, shooters, etc. Every single one of my friends who picked up a PSP did so thanks to the GT PSP trailer Sony showed off, me being one of them, and all but 1 sold theirs off because it took too long to come out or heard reviews it was just an OK game and not the GT we all expected (note, I still have mine and play it on occasion and I'm the only one who actually got GT PSP). Not everyone will buy all the consoles but that isn't always because of lack of time or funds... sadly a lot of it has to do with brand loyalty. No matter what I've said to my die hard loyal xbox fans, they refuse to get a PS3 and justify their decision/comments any way possible. They have the time, and the money.. it comes down to brand loyalty. Sad but true it happens all too often. Don't take it personal but you basically said "You won't recommend anyone to buy console X for game Y and multiplats Z but would recommend someone to buy console X for game Y and multiplats Z?" and the one you would recommend is the one you have.

 

[IncredibleMind]

Let me rephrase it... if you have the time and money then there is no reason to NOT get a 360 and F3UC (or any other game for that matter) outside of brand loyalty. It's OK to not have the time/money folks, I was once there. I'm a gamer though, not a brand loyalist. I want access to all the gaming aisles at Best Buy or Walmart, not just 1. Great games, better running multiplats and exclusives, are on both platforms. If you like GT5, you'll like Forza 3, and if you like Forza 3 you'll like GT5. I personally love both franchises and know both have their pros and cons when comparing each other.That's my view on it though and nothing anyone can say will change it.

Like mentioned, 'arcade slims' which comes with 4gb internal, can use any USB device for storage and costs $200 new. The F3UC only costso $30 new. Of course, that's racing with controller so you'd have to spend a bit to get a wheel (which is exactly what you'd do for PS3). I know people who bought PS consoles specifically for GT games, me being one of them and mind you this was true for each generation. I also know people who built up a powerful gaming rig for the best racing sim experience, shooters, etc. Every single one of my friends who picked up a PSP did so thanks to the GT PSP trailer Sony showed off, me being one of them, and all but 1 sold theirs off because it took too long to come out or heard reviews it was just an OK game and not the GT we all expected (note, I still have mine and play it on occasion and I'm the only one who actually got GT PSP). Not everyone will buy all the consoles but that isn't always because of lack of time or funds... sadly a lot of it has to do with brand loyalty. No matter what I've said to my die hard loyal xbox fans, they refuse to get a PS3 and justify their decision/comments any way possible. They have the time, and the money.. it comes down to brand loyalty. Sad but true it happens all too often. Don't take it personal but you basically said "You won't recommend anyone to buy console X for game Y and multiplats Z but would recommend someone to buy console X for game Y and multiplats Z?" and the one you would recommend is the one you have.

No. I have a 360 but all of my gaming is done on the PS3. The only thing that could possibly change that for me would be if Forza 4 is of exceptional quality and I won't be convinced of that until I see it for myself.

I did find it interesting that you downplayed the MS wheel situation, which indicates you just might be guilty of what you accuse me of.

 

[Pierced Lead]

Kinda like GT5 👍

I love how you negate any weakness of FM3 saying it happens in GT5 as well.

Well, it doesn't.

Problem is most people I know with PS3's were really on it for GT5 (we were all waiting forever), MLB series and really that's it. The other titles just don't have "it" for me and the others I know. While the 360 is always , seemingly, coming out with something. And usually multiplats get the shaft one way or the other on the PS3 compared to the 360. LBP is a title I'm still trying to figure out how it sells. lol

I'm mainly into sports, thus the racing, and I have to tell you the only thing the PS3 has over the 360 is baseball and that's soon to be neutralized.

Maybe because its the way both companies advertise the games?

 

[JoeMaPampang]

So are you telling me that you are going to drive the Bugatti Veyron from the passenger seat with no steering wheel? That's not a "drive-able" cockpit view that you posted.

Go to insidesimracing.tv and watch the comparisons of the Ferrari F430 racing around Nurburg GP and tell me that the cockpit views are even close in similarity with regards to the level and crispness of detail. The GT5 cockpit view blows the FM3 view out of the water. It's like that for every premium car in GT5 v.s. the FM3 counterpart.

Nice try though, you keep posting videos/pictures that are put together by Turn 10 and not actual videos/pictures of the cars actual gameplay.

No this is how the bugatti looks inGAME. seems you havent played it. Also the Porsches and the racecars have awesome interiors for your information.
Yes for every Premium car but how much awesome legends are not Standard? The best ones in my opinion. At least every car in Forza has a cocpit

 

[NOS Waster]

No this is how the bugatti looks inGAME. seems you havent played it. Also the Porsches and the racecars have awesome interiors for your information.
Yes for every Premium car but how much awesome legends are not Standard? The best ones in my opinion. At least every car in Forza has a cocpit
img snip

Sorry, but with regards to level of detail, GT5 has the upper hand. What you seem to like is the unrealistic lighting that Forza likes to use.

What's the point if most of the race cars in FM3 don't have PROPERLY working cockpits. Most R1 class cars don't even have working cockpits. Please do explain.

EDIT: Also, Forza's cockpit view has too wide an FOV for a single-screen setup. This leads to an unrealistic sense of speed. In GT5, you can adjust this FOV with the 3 options: "Wide, Zoom, Extra Zoom". InsideSimRacing has said that they feel that "Zoom" leads to a realistic sense of speed and I agree with them there.
In Forza, I get too much of the "fish-eye effect."

 

[dzidza]

Names dont mean anything.

Admittedly, GT5 love of racing doesnt wash, the AI stinks and the races arent that fun. FM's raced are more challenging.

FM races are as unchallenging and not fun as GT's, AI also stinks big time.

I always wondered what do you see when you press Y button on xbox360 controller when driving from cockpit view.

 

[Barso]

The photomode really is something else.

Personally I am loving GT5 far more than forza3.

I know GT5 has alot of faults and isn't as consistant as forza3 but when GT5 is good, it's amazing.

The forza 3 photomode is terrible and the modelling of most of the cars is just wrong.

You can tell the modelling was outsourced as some are fantastic and some are just plain rubbish.

GT5 has made me take a real interest in my PS3 and I can't wait for killzone 3 ad little big planet 2.

I think sony has made the right decision to invest on so many first party titles.

 

[tigermilk]

Who gives a flip about in car views? Neither FM3 or GT5 do them correctly. My eyeballs aren't stuck in the back seat. When I drive in real life, I don't see all the stuff modeled in these interior views. Real life is somewhere between these views and a hood cam. Both games miss the mark for their in-car views, and as such, detail or lack thereof is lost on me. Seems like it only comes down to worthless bragging rights for some of you.

 

[tigermilk]

FM races are as unchallenging and not fun as GT's, AI also stinks big time.

I always wondered what do you see when you press Y button on xbox360 controller when driving from cockpit view.

Both games do truly suffer from a syndrome of a couple of contenders and a ton of back markers. In FM3, as long as my performance index is near the top 2-3 cars, it's a hard race. It's a huge challenge to win, either chasing down the lead or second place car or trying to stay out front. I can count on one hand the number of races (straight up races) in GT5 that have been challenging. The seasonal event races introduced much greater challenge, but then PD goes and dumbs them down. I beat this last round first try with nothing more than an upgrade to soft tires.

 

[Zer0]

Who gives a flip about in car views? Neither FM3 or GT5 do them correctly. My eyeballs aren't stuck in the back seat. When I drive in real life, I don't see all the stuff modeled in these interior views. Real life is somewhere between these views and a hood cam. Both games miss the mark for their in-car views, and as such, detail or lack thereof is lost on me. Seems like it only comes down to worthless bragging rights for some of you.

 

[tigermilk]

Thanks how demonstrating how worthless all those views are Seriously, they are all weak. Very few games I've played (and FM nor GT fit in that category) do it well.

 

[Zer0]

Thanks how demonstrating how worthless all those views are Seriously, they are all weak. Very few games I've played (and FM nor GT fit in that category) do it well.

And that's because all the range and type of views exists, some people can't play in cockpit view, some play only in external, others in roof cam, etc... I play on a BIG projected screen and the standard cockpit view is the most realistic in scale and FOV, almost 1:1.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I think it only does this in photo travel.
The cars in regular photomode are the way they are in-game but with vastly improved antialiasing and (afaik) bettter shadows.

Does it in photomode too. You can see the change live right in front of you.

I love how you negate any weakness of FM3 saying it happens in GT5 as well. Well, it doesn't.

Never did any such thing.

 

[Zer0]

Does it in photomode too. You can see the change live right in front of you.

There is not such change, in fact you can still see the differences between a photo of the same car in photomode and phototravel.

 

[cuco33]

No. I have a 360 but all of my gaming is done on the PS3. The only thing that could possibly change that for me would be if Forza 4 is of exceptional quality and I won't be convinced of that until I see it for myself.

I did find it interesting that you downplayed the MS wheel situation, which indicates you just might be guilty of what you accuse me of.

Your first line... I dunno, going to leave it be..

I didn't downplay anything. If you buy a wheel for PS3, you can do the same for 360 (unless you get a wheel which works on both). You could push the brand loyalist stance by claiming that you absolutely need to buy a 360 wheel neglecting the fact you already bought a wheel for PS3, although I'd get not wanting to buy another wheel because you already own one that works with PS3. I'd personally want to own 1 wheel for all platforms rather than multiple wheels for multiple platforms. I already have a good PC wheel which I haven't been able to get working with PS3 (Logitech Momo Force, and here I was thinking 'any FFB wheel easily works with PS3'). I'm waiting for Fanatec to have the CS pedals back in stock because I want 1 high quality wheel/pedals that works on all 3 platforms (911 GT2 w/CS pedals). No point in spending $100 for lower quality MS/Madcatz/obsolete and old Logi wheel followed by $300 for a G27 when for $100 more I get 1 better wheel/pedal set that works on all 3 platforms.
I'm very firm on my stance of MS not actually pushing to open their 3rd party wheel support. I lurk here more than I post, same as I do on a few other boards but usually you'd see me say if MS wants to be serious about sims and winning the sim fans over, all they'd need to start doing is opening wheel support. MS uses a different FFB system though (XID) than PS3/PC (HID) but ultimately they should be opening their licenses to all or actually contracting these wheel makers to make one for them (I doubt the MS wheel was a profitable venture for MS). In the end it's the console manufacturer's stance, not game developers. I'm sure T10 would want more wheels to work than the 5 that has worked so far.

 

[advan031]

I finally picked up a 360 specifically for FM3 and find the game enjoyable. I still prefer GT5 but it needs more events!!!