What does GT5 have over FM3?

[mekonrider]

I feel from a Western standpoint the car choices in Forza are better. The DLC also seems to be the result of fan feedback.....RS500 Sierra anyone?!!!!

Being utterly Japanese was a good thing in the 90s. It just doesn't hold anymore I'm afraid Kaz.

 

[niky]

Calling all cars.

GT5 defence force needed in section forza/GT thread.
Poster is armed with facts and he's not afraid to use them.

Proceed with caution.

Gasp... are you accusing GTPlanet... a forum about Gran Turismo... of... bias?

An opinion is an opinion. And facts are facts. I won't even pretend that GT5 is perfect, as it isn't. But I have yet to play a "perfect" racing game on the console. GT5 is more than good enough for me.

all is a pretty powerful word.

yes, the premium cars in GT5 are beyond amazing and do make the FM3 cars look "like play dough" when on the right tracks, but none of the standards are up to spec with the FM3 cars. you might want to think they are, but they really aren't. remember that all of the FM3 cars have more rounded fenders, 3D door handles, three dimensional tail and headlamps, interiors, etc. let's not forget that what really makes GT5 look so much better than FM3 (well, when we're talking about premium cars) is the lighting engine in GT5, not the extra polygons in the GT models.

Yeah... GT5's standards look good when they're moving thanks to the environmental and lighting effects... but when you get close up and see the jaggies and pixellation... errhh...

 

[birksy82]

I really tried to like it but all you need, is to be honest with yourself and realise that you're not really enjoying it and there are far better games out there.

So what are you saying here? That I have been living a lie for nearly 2 months of my life? Since release I have not played another game other than GT5 It's a good solid game if this wasn't the case I wouldn't even have the game it would have been traded in. Maybe you don't enjoy it but that doesn't mean that I or the next person doesn't.

 

[Barso]

Gullible?
What's gullible, is being sold 1000 cards with 800 totally recycled with tracks recycled from older games.
You my friend are what's gullible.
At least forza is trying to be different and trying new things.
GT5 is still doing the same old thing except moving backwards.
I really tried to like GT5 but the unbiased truth is, it's not really that good and certainly not 6 years in development good.
Thanks for all the help and advice everyone and I do mean that.
GTplanet is full of very experienced and knowledgeable people.
Thank you and goodbye.

 

[Ya Pops]

Um, Forza. Cash cow game with minimal depth aimed at having a life span only as long as it takes them to redesign the whole concept so they can sell it back to you as something equally as noobish the next year.

Like Need for speed. My friend was trying to get me to buy that before GT5 was released, I told him to get lost. Does he or anyone on my friend list even play that game now? No.
Why people want to rush out and throw money at all the worst games with no lifespan is beyond me.
In years from now I will still be playing GT5. They will be up to Forza 100 and would have removed hundreds of dollars from the pockets of the gullible and the weak minded.

Bottom line is GT5 is designed for fans of cars while Forza is designed to appeal to children, arcade racers and the wider noobish population with little taste and even less comprehension of quality.

Such a shame GT5 won't let me put some big tacky noobish vinyls on my car to let everyone know what a noob idiot I am. LOL.

The next installment of Forza will be more of the same more flashy throw away crap. It will never be a FULL game. That doesn't fit their business plan.

GT5 is to racing games what GTA was to adventure. Huge and the new standard by which all other games pale in comparison.

Please stop asking stupid questions like "I'm at level 40, what do I do now?" and "What makes GT5 better then Forza". If you don't know yet then I'm afraid its time to move on.

I can't decide where to start with you so I'll just sit here and laugh for a while..

 

[Spagetti69]

Incident over, Hostile has retreated.

 

[RikkiGT-R]

GT5 is to racing games what GTA was to adventure.

GTA single player adventure mode: fantastic.

GT5 single player 'racing' mode: Umm.... Nope.

 

[Luminis]

Wow. The amount of mud-slinging fanboys in this thread really is sickening

 

[amar212]

Wow. The amount of mud-slinging fanboys in this thread really is sickening

I agree.

I would really wish that more people have funds and will to go and buy X360/Forza/Gold Live/Fanatec wheel (although MS FF wheel would do for starts) and give Forza a decent time.

Threads like this would become a more nicer place for sanity.

 

[rufuscure]

They both have their strong, and weak points. My honest opinion is that GT5 is a better game, but not as much as it should be. So the real interesting questions are these - How long will it take PD to put out GT6, how good will that be, and will Forza 4 improve the feel of it's driving (we all know the graphics look great) it's too soon to say what franchise will wear the crown I guess. It is looking like Forza 4 will be king if Forza3/GT5's states are any indication at all.

^I second banning these types of threads!!

 

[Luminis]

I would really wish that more people have funds and will to go and buy X360/Forza/Gold Live/Fanatec wheel (although MS FF wheel would do for starts) and give Forza a decent time.

Agreed... Most people I know that actually played both games know better than to bad mouth either like that.
It's usually people that haven't played both games (or only played 'the other' game for about five minutes) that form the most onesided opinions.

Either way, both games have their ups and downs. I for one am sticking with GT5 currently. Better driving feel and a better modelled 'Ring, that's why I prefer it.
If Forza can pick up on that, I might switch over to FM4. Personally, I'll just be going with whatever game provides the betetr experience at what I care about the most.

Anyways, I'm just glad I don't have to decide between owning a PS3 and an Xbox360 and, therefore, can base my opinion on quite some playtime with both games.
Hell, if Shift 2 gets away from its arcadiness, I'd even give that a spin, even though it's wearing the NFS badge.

Whenever I see people talking about 'noobish vynils' and that kind of stuff to make Forza look bad, I really do feel like face palming...

 

[DEATHSARTHE]

You know, this time around Polyphony Digital didn't really make any statements like they did with pervious titles. Everything in the game is mediorce if not poorly implemented. Even months after the release, the game remains buggy and unfinished with very little communication from PD.

I can't say this about FM3, though I've heard some pretty distasteful flops by Turn 10 - but nothing that could've amounted to years of anticipation only to release something so dull in comparison to what's out here now to eager fans. GT5 was a sickening low blow and as I stare at the low res Standard cars ported directly from what I'm assuming was the PSP version... I can't help but feel ****ing cheated more than anything.

I'm just waiting for them to drop THE update that fixes everything and I will be a full fledged GT fan again. I don't feel like GT5 is truly a $60 game at any level... It's more like what GT5: Prologue should've been IMO.

Forza seems to have delivered on all fronts, and fans of that game seem satisfied if not bloated from all the features in it. GT fans remain snobby about the things GT5 did right. Can't say that GT5 is better this time around because half the game is a PSP/PS2 game and the other half is somewhat meant for the PS3 which is really unacceptable. I think FM3 just might be a better new generation game than GT5. Hopefully PD will fix this and I'm not talking about GT6...

 

[Tenacious D]

Agreed... Most people I know that actually played both games know better than to bad mouth either like that.

More on this in a moment...

You know, this time around Polyphony Digital didn't really make any statements like they did with pervious titles. Everything in the game is mediorce if not poorly implemented. Even months after the release, the game remains buggy and unfinished with very little communication from PD.

I can't say this about FM3, though I've heard some pretty distasteful flops by Turn 10

You have got to be kidding.

You can only say this about F3 if you do nothing at all but race, race online in private races, drift, and buy cars from the Auction House.

Forza 3 is a nice game. Yes, in some respects it's way beyond GT5. Way way. Customization is over the top. The Livery Editor is a car painters dream.

Of course, it's also a nightmare still. The surfaces of many cars and bodykit elements won't work right with the editor. In some cases, you can't put anything on a surface at all. The file handling in either Forza or the 360 is terrible. The need for decals if you're any kind of race modder is essential, and T10 only provides so many. So you either have to roll your own or buy them. And when you hit the magic limit of around 130 files of any type, suddenly the 360 turns into a lethargic drug casualty. Making race cars takes enough time as it is without adding insult to injury. Scrolling through your library is a time consuming pain.

So is Photo Mode. Since I can't use a USB drive with the 360 to transfer images, I have to endure T10's horrible hoop gauntlet of uploading images one at a time to the official forza website. And then the transfer mucks up the color and reduces the resolution, and even makes it fuzzy! And naturally, if you like to take pics at all, you'll have to chug through the file bogging and waste time sorting. Waste more time uploading up to 18 images. Waste more time trying to fix them in Photoshop or something, and often you just can't make it look like the original.

You have to order a pricey Fanatec wheel, and wait for it to ship, to enjoy a serious driving feel. Online is a mess. Career Mode is a weird aimless sandbox deal. Cars other than yours sometimes really do look like Playdough in pics. I personally don't like the heavy bias towards supercars, or that they milk the DLC stuff a bit too much. I shouldn't even have to mention their Nurburgring. I HATE paying for what Live offers. And this is just off the top of my head after not playing it for a year.

Yes, there are things to snicker at GT5 over. Dozens of things, we've all gone through our "WTH was Kaz thinking" with the XP system, tiny A-Spec Mode, separate B-Spec Mode, not using a big portion of their tracks in A-Spec, on down. The online structure Kaz gushed about in interviews doesn't exist yet, but sadly it's going to require beefing up the PSN with lots more servers and traffic capacity before that can be realized. Right now, it's no better than Forza 3.

I can see why people love Forza 3 and dump on GT5. But, vise versa is also true. I'm typical of many GT/Forza folk. Even with all the warts and weirdness in GT5, I consider it the better racer. I'd love to fire up Forza and make some cars, take turns blistering fast, hit the shops for some decals, number plates and national flags, make those I can't find and throw those in my Store. Check out some liveries and maybe buy a few. Seeing as how MS updated my credit info without my permission for another year of farking Live, I can still do that.

Instead, I'm sighing that I have to buy farking cars so I can paint the cars I want to in GT5, and can only Race Mod the same old 17 rides. No decals, no vinyls, so I can't give my other cars a nice livery. But then I tune a car and either take my tuners to Indy Road Course, or racers to Cape Ring, and I forget all that as I feel the car resisting virtually through turns thanks to the DF GT wheel and its great force feedback. The cars feel more real, and they behave more like real cars to me. Even with glitches, the graphics are better. It looks pretty darn real in replays, and replays are a joy to watch. I love the Standard cars. The music is better. The spirit and essence of GT5 is delicious. Forza 3 and my 360 have more than a year of dust on them.

Yes, Forza 4 can change the game. I expect T10 to break a number of things, the way they always do, and as Kaz and PD did to GT5. They can surprise me. They'd better, because GT5 is still the sweeter girl right now. Even though she's a little schitzo and chews on the furniture.

 

[PopTarts]

Amazing, TD. couldn't have said I better myself.

All of the quirks of both aside, GT5's physics always make me come back. The good thing is that PD seems to be taking its updates seriously. I might be a lot more dissatisfied if they didn't seem to care that a lot of folks are dissatisfied, but they really do seem to care a lot.

The amount of stuff in these updates is very impressive. I work in the software development industry and the amount of stuff PD updates is no short of astounding. They must be working extremely hard for these updates, because updating software while not introducing additional bugs and having time to test the updates properly can be very challenging.

 

[Dave x1]

Forza 3 is good but GT5 is better but FM4 gonna be better but GT6 is gonna kill FM4 but FM5...Stop it guys this is a no ending story,just enjoy the game you like more,dont be mindless fanboys.

 

[maxpontiac]

More on this in a moment...


You have got to be kidding.

You can only say this about F3 if you do nothing at all but race, race online in private races, drift, and buy cars from the Auction House.

Forza 3 is a nice game. Yes, in some respects it's way beyond GT5. Way way. Customization is over the top. The Livery Editor is a car painters dream.

Of course, it's also a nightmare still. The surfaces of many cars and bodykit elements won't work right with the editor. In some cases, you can't put anything on a surface at all. The file handling in either Forza or the 360 is terrible. The need for decals if you're any kind of race modder is essential, and T10 only provides so many. So you either have to roll your own or buy them. And when you hit the magic limit of around 130 files of any type, suddenly the 360 turns into a lethargic drug casualty. Making race cars takes enough time as it is without adding insult to injury. Scrolling through your library is a time consuming pain.

So is Photo Mode. Since I can't use a USB drive with the 360 to transfer images, I have to endure T10's horrible hoop gauntlet of uploading images one at a time to the official forza website. And then the transfer mucks up the color and reduces the resolution, and even makes it fuzzy! And naturally, if you like to take pics at all, you'll have to chug through the file bogging and waste time sorting. Waste more time uploading up to 18 images. Waste more time trying to fix them in Photoshop or something, and often you just can't make it look like the original.

You have to order a pricey Fanatec wheel, and wait for it to ship, to enjoy a serious driving feel. Online is a mess. Career Mode is a weird aimless sandbox deal. Cars other than yours sometimes really do look like Playdough in pics. I personally don't like the heavy bias towards supercars, or that they milk the DLC stuff a bit too much. I shouldn't even have to mention their Nurburgring. I HATE paying for what Live offers. And this is just off the top of my head after not playing it for a year.

Yes, there are things to snicker at GT5 over. Dozens of things, we've all gone through our "WTH was Kaz thinking" with the XP system, tiny A-Spec Mode, separate B-Spec Mode, not using a big portion of their tracks in A-Spec, on down. The online structure Kaz gushed about in interviews doesn't exist yet, but sadly it's going to require beefing up the PSN with lots more servers and traffic capacity before that can be realized. Right now, it's no better than Forza 3.

I can see why people love Forza 3 and dump on GT5. But, vise versa is also true. I'm typical of many GT/Forza folk. Even with all the warts and weirdness in GT5, I consider it the better racer. I'd love to fire up Forza and make some cars, take turns blistering fast, hit the shops for some decals, number plates and national flags, make those I can't find and throw those in my Store. Check out some liveries and maybe buy a few. Seeing as how MS updated my credit info without my permission for another year of farking Live, I can still do that.

Instead, I'm sighing that I have to buy farking cars so I can paint the cars I want to in GT5, and can only Race Mod the same old 17 rides. No decals, no vinyls, so I can't give my other cars a nice livery. But then I tune a car and either take my tuners to Indy Road Course, or racers to Cape Ring, and I forget all that as I feel the car resisting virtually through turns thanks to the DF GT wheel and its great force feedback. The cars feel more real, and they behave more like real cars to me. Even with glitches, the graphics are better. It looks pretty darn real in replays, and replays are a joy to watch. I love the Standard cars. The music is better. The spirit and essence of GT5 is delicious. Forza 3 and my 360 have more than a year of dust on them.

Yes, Forza 4 can change the game. I expect T10 to break a number of things, the way they always do, and as Kaz and PD did to GT5. They can surprise me. They'd better, because GT5 is still the sweeter girl right now. Even though she's a little schitzo and chews on the furniture.

Nice post TD, and you pretty much described why I like GT5 better than any Forza.

The driving.

 

[eSZee]

I always hear what FM3 has over GT5, but I wanna hear honest opinions from FM3 players who played both games.

Physics and karts.

 

[Barso]

What annoys me most about GT5 is , what the game could and should have been.
It should have been the definitive racing game after so long in development.
What really went wrong?
How did online leaderboards miss the release? I can't believe that they are missing.
Maybe they will get patched in but they were in prologue, so what caused them to be taken out?
I can still remember a photo of the PD team taking notes while playing Forza3 backstage at E3.
So what notes were they taking?

 

[DEATHSARTHE]

GT's graphics were once unbelieveable, but in this day in age they are just competitive at best. I wouldn't say they are better than FM3, they're just what is to be expected from a new generation game on a new generation console. The objects around the tracks are still flat, 2D graphics that occasionally still pop-up. PD didn't expand much on the 3D crowds that interestingly enough looked either as good or better in GT4. Though 200 Premium cars are in fact highly detailed, there are 800 that are low-res ports from GT4/PSP. I'd say many of the real world tracks are up to PD's true standards and quality (Sarthe and Nurburgring) but some of the fantasy tracks do look cheap. The menu graphics are boring, static images instead of a free flowing 3D interface. Even Photo Travel Mode doesn't boast much graphical genius, though with the right angle, lighting, and maybe a bit of luck you can produce a pretty realistic photo, as you could in GT4 on PS2. The enviornments are indeed big, but the substance in them are PS2 or Xbox worthy... pretty much GT4's Photo Mode, just bigger with more free roaming space. So nothing really that interesting in Photo Travel mode. Shadows and reflections are jagged and terribly distracting...

In fact, I can't really give anything graphic wise to GT5 when so much is taken away from the short cuts PD has taken. At their very best they are just what is expected and competitive... but for me, since I don't drive on Nurburgring with a Premium car every day the graphics are then actually pretty second rate IMO but bareable. FM3 at least has ports from more updated software than GT4 that was from 5 years ago. Some 400+ detailed cars inside and out coincidently make up a much more interesting car selection that does at least look good or as expected for a new generation game. I would argue if FM3 looks better than GT4... than it is at least competitive or better looking than GT5.

 

[Luminis]

I would argue if FM3 looks better than GT4... than it is at least competitive or better looking than GT5.

You know, I'm all for giving Forza the credit it deserves. I've defended that game against what i perceived to be wrong accusations numerous times.

However, I simply can't agree with that. I can't. Not with a straight face, at the very least.
Well,y eah, GT5's graphics do vary by a huge amount. However, Forza's sub-par lighting system alone is enough to make me think that it doesn't look better than GT5.
FM3's graphics are more consistent, yes, that's true. But, honestly, that's about it. GT5 doesn't trounce it, as some people would make it out to do, but I still consider GT5 to be the better looking game. Whenever I fire up good ol' FM3, I can't help put notice that, all things considered, GT5 has an edge in the graphics department.

Personally, I'm just curious about what FM4 will bring to the table, in terms of graphics. While I, personally, consider the Xbox360 to be at the ropes in terms of performance by now, I do think that FM4, if it incorporates a better lighting engine, it might be able to look as good as GT5 does (on average).
But FM3? Nope, no dice.

 

[Zer0]

Forza seems to have delivered on all fronts, and fans of that game seem satisfied if not bloated from all the features in it. GT fans remain snobby about the things GT5 did right. Can't say that GT5 is better this time around because half the game is a PSP/PS2 game and the other half is somewhat meant for the PS3 which is really unacceptable. I think FM3 just might be a better new generation game than GT5. Hopefully PD will fix this and I'm not talking about GT6...

After FM2 T10 workers were flooding most of the car forums searching for feedback and new features for FM3 with threads like this:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4050218

Read all the posts and then think about what they delivered and what GT5 delivered and what FM4 would need to deliver to become a better new generation game.

It's very curious how all the heavy Forza supporters here are more happy with how ended FM3 than were in the official forums. Here no one remember the Photomode/ingame graphics let down, the disappointment of no weather and no night/day cycles, the wheel compatibility, the assisted physics, the downgraded online, the 4WD swaps and leaderboards and all the bugs and unfinished parts in the game exit period.

http://classygamer.blogspot.com/2010/02/forza-motorsport-3-what-went-wrong.html

It will be interesting to see how far could T10 evolve its game in the same hardware and how far have evolved GT5 in the same dates.

 

[t.o.]

It's very curious how all the heavy Forza supporters here are more happy with how ended FM3 than were in the official forums. Here no one remember the Photomode/ingame graphics let down, the disappointment of no weather and no night/day cycles, the wheel compatibility, the assisted physics, the downgraded online, the 4WD swaps and leaderboards and all the bugs and unfinished parts in the game exit period.

I don't think it's an issue about FM3 supporters forgot about FM3's shortcomings as it's about GT5 brought with it a litany of new shortcomings to gripe about in what "heavy GT5 supporters" tout was the "superior game".

 

[RikkiGT-R]

Agreed... Most people I know that actually played both games know better than to bad mouth either like that.
It's usually people that haven't played both games (or only played 'the other' game for about five minutes) that form the most onesided opinions.

I played Forza 3 up until about 95%+ completion. Have played GT5 up to 76% completion so far (but have spent much more time Time Trialling on GT5 than I did on Forza 3).

Forza 3 had a much more realistic racing experience than GT5 does, but GT5 has a much more realistic driving experience than Forza 3, if you see what I mean.

Forza 3 was great at the start; graphics, races, competitive AI, almost limitless customisation, damage model (although hardly incredible, but miles better than GT5). But there was never any weather changes or night time racing, and once you completed the career mode and were left with a plethora of races to choose from, it actually got a bit tedious and repetitive.

GT5 on the other hand; it has to be admitted that we were promised the world for years but what we got was something not quite right. Cluttered, fiddly and unnecessary menus, an appallingly low a-spec race count (127 to GT4's 522), most races are brief to say the least (ONE LAP of Nürburgring in the German Touring Car Championship for God's sake!) , AI which is still as dumb as carrot sticks, hardly any championships, a non-existent damage model, an expanded b-spec mode giving 'Bob' twice the length of races that we get. This wouldn't be so bad if Bob was anything approaching a 'race driver', but he isn't; he is a useless idiot without a clue how to drive and who wouldn't be hired by any racing team anywhere in the world.

But when it comes to driving, GT5 is something else. There is still no greater simulation of driving; I could spend days hopping in and out of 'Premium Models' and driving around all the tracks with no HUD, in cockpit view. It is amazing (a big TV and surround sound only adds to the awesomeness).

As a Driving simulator, GT5 is unrivalled. As a racing simulator, it is embarrassing. But they don't call it "The real driving simulator" for nothing, I guess.



tl;dr: This reminds me of 'Pro Evo' [GT] versus 'FIFA' [Forza] - For years Pro Evo was king of football games and FIFA was playing catch up. Then Konami got comfortable and doled out the same old game with no innovation for a few seasons [in fact, it actually got worse - see GT4 to GT5], whereby FIFA weren't afraid to make changes and take chances. Nowadays FIFA is streets ahead and Pro Evo is a load of old rubbish. I fear the same is happening with GT and Forza; with a few innovative changes and additions, Forza 4 could have a lot more fans who defect from the GT series, looking for something new and exciting.

 

[t.o.]

I played Forza 3 up until about 95%+ completion. Have played GT5 up to 76% completion so far (but have spent much more time Time Trialling on GT5 than I did on Forza 3).

Forza 3 had a much more realistic racing experience than GT5 does, but GT5 has a much more realistic driving experience than Forza 3, if you see what I mean.

Forza 3 was great at the start; graphics, races, competitive AI, almost limitless customisation, damage model (although hardly incredible, but miles better than GT5). But there was never any weather changes or night time racing, and once you completed the career mode and were left with a plethora of races to choose from, it actually got a bit tedious and repetitive.

GT5 on the other hand; it has to be admitted that we were promised the world for years but what we got was something not quite right. Cluttered, fiddly and unnecessary menus, an appallingly low a-spec race count (127 to GT4's 522), most races are brief to say the least (ONE LAP of Nürburgring in the German Touring Car Championship for God's sake!) , AI which is still as dumb as carrot sticks, hardly any championships, a non-existent damage model, an expanded b-spec mode giving 'Bob' twice the length of races that we get. This wouldn't be so bad if Bob was anything approaching a 'race driver', but he isn't; he is a useless idiot without a clue how to drive and who wouldn't be hired by any racing team anywhere in the world.

But when it comes to driving, GT5 is something else. There is still no greater simulation of driving; I could spend days hopping in and out of 'Premium Models' and driving around all the tracks with no HUD, in cockpit view. It is amazing (a big TV and surround sound only adds to the awesomeness).

As a Driving simulator, GT5 is unrivalled. As a racing simulator, it is embarrassing. But they don't call it "The real driving simulator" for nothing, I guess.



tl;dr: This reminds me of 'Pro Evo' [GT] versus 'FIFA' [Forza] - For years Pro Evo was king of football games and FIFA was playing catch up. Then Konami got comfortable and doled out the same old game with no innovation for a few seasons [in fact, it actually got worse - see GT4 to GT5], whereby FIFA weren't afraid to make changes and take chances. Nowadays FIFA is streets ahead and Pro Evo is a load of old rubbish. I fear the same is happening with GT and Forza; with a few innovative changes and additions, Forza 4 could have a lot more fans who defect from the GT series, looking for something new and exciting.

I've been saying the same thing since the game came out. One does racing EXTREMELY well and one does driving EXTREMELY well. And both have left the door open for the other to steal the crown.

EDIT: But what I can say is that it seems to me GT5 has the basis to be patched to a level to grab that glory while we'll have to wait and see what FM4 is going to bring to the table.

 

[Wedge598]

I played Forza 3 up until about 95%+ completion. Have played GT5 up to 76% completion so far (but have spent much more time Time Trialling on GT5 than I did on Forza 3).

Forza 3 had a much more realistic racing experience than GT5 does, but GT5 has a much more realistic driving experience than Forza 3, if you see what I mean.

Forza 3 was great at the start; graphics, races, competitive AI, almost limitless customisation, damage model (although hardly incredible, but miles better than GT5). But there was never any weather changes or night time racing, and once you completed the career mode and were left with a plethora of races to choose from, it actually got a bit tedious and repetitive.

GT5 on the other hand; it has to be admitted that we were promised the world for years but what we got was something not quite right. Cluttered, fiddly and unnecessary menus, an appallingly low a-spec race count (127 to GT4's 522), most races are brief to say the least (ONE LAP of Nürburgring in the German Touring Car Championship for God's sake!) , AI which is still as dumb as carrot sticks, hardly any championships, a non-existent damage model, an expanded b-spec mode giving 'Bob' twice the length of races that we get. This wouldn't be so bad if Bob was anything approaching a 'race driver', but he isn't; he is a useless idiot without a clue how to drive and who wouldn't be hired by any racing team anywhere in the world.

But when it comes to driving, GT5 is something else. There is still no greater simulation of driving; I could spend days hopping in and out of 'Premium Models' and driving around all the tracks with no HUD, in cockpit view. It is amazing (a big TV and surround sound only adds to the awesomeness).

As a Driving simulator, GT5 is unrivalled. As a racing simulator, it is embarrassing. But they don't call it "The real driving simulator" for nothing, I guess.



tl;dr: This reminds me of 'Pro Evo' [GT] versus 'FIFA' [Forza] - For years Pro Evo was king of football games and FIFA was playing catch up. Then Konami got comfortable and doled out the same old game with no innovation for a few seasons [in fact, it actually got worse - see GT4 to GT5], whereby FIFA weren't afraid to make changes and take chances. Nowadays FIFA is streets ahead and Pro Evo is a load of old rubbish. I fear the same is happening with GT and Forza; with a few innovative changes and additions, Forza 4 could have a lot more fans who defect from the GT series, looking for something new and exciting.

Rikki, TD and many of rest of you have said exactly what I would. FM3 was a thoroughly enjoyable game. The graphics are more consistent and the car and racing options are way more plentiful. GT5 was a huge disappointment in the career mode. It is, at best, on par with the career in FM2. FM3 added a much need championship points system to each event and GT5 really short changed us by limiting those championships to a handful of events.

FM3 and the Fanatec wheel make a pretty good combination but for some reason I like the feel of the cars better in GT5. Like you all said, it is a better driving experience. And the Green Hell is the best one yet. With license tests, B-spec, the special events and the seasonal events GT5 offers a lot to do and that is why I'm still using it on daily basis since Xmas.

 

[Tenacious D]

Somehow, I completely forgot about damage. Er... I'm home sick. Cough.

While some think Forza's damage implementation is wimpy, and admittedly it is only about a third what real life would do to a car, I'm pretty happy with it, and it looks pretty darn good too. Yes, Codemasters seem to have the damage crown, but considering everything else in their racers, they seem to be little more than a British EA since Toca 3. In contrast, except for whatever there is in the online build, GT5 can hardly be said to have a damage system.

I guess I'm too used to Gran Turismo games not having damage because I really don't miss it all that much. When it does happen in those few races including it, it's a pleasant surprise. But PD really need to do their homework on this, because they're about the only racer left without a passable damage build.

For that matter, they're about the only racer these days without a livery editor. To you guys complaining about the Standard cars and the pixelly textures, just imagine if you could fix those yourself, or pay someone in game credits to do that? And then on top of that, don't like the livery? Create your own! Of all the things which spoiled me in Forza, this is the golden ticket for me.

The amount of stuff in these updates is very impressive. I work in the software development industry and the amount of stuff PD updates is no short of astounding. They must be working extremely hard for these updates, because updating software while not introducing additional bugs and having time to test the updates properly can be very challenging.

I have to say that of all the things which - if you'll pardon the pun, bug me about Forza, it's that the games all seem to have been patched rather than recoded by hand prior to release. I've seen some buggy game software, but the Forza's take the crown.

I'm not sure if Kaz knew he'd be doing this - and this is kind of a "duh" here, or what, but PD seem to have carefully coded GT5 to be patchable. Prologue made a pretty good guinea pig. Heck, it had the physics engine patched, and that's probably no small feat. And they included a new track which integrated seamlessly into the single player game, which for a racer isn't all that common. I wish all game companies were so careful with their coding, because GT5 is holding up pretty well. And man, is it going to need some patching over the coming year...

 

[RikkiGT-R]

I'm still using it on daily basis since Xmas.

I haven't played another game since release day...



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I really was that happy 👍

 

[CarreraGT]

What annoys me most about GT5 is , what the game could and should have been.
It should have been the definitive racing game after so long in development.
What really went wrong?
How did online leaderboards miss the release? I can't believe that they are missing.
Maybe they will get patched in but they were in prologue, so what caused them to be taken out?
I can still remember a photo of the PD team taking notes while playing Forza3 backstage at E3.
So what notes were they taking?

I agree with this. Either they were blind or someone lost those notes because GT5 missed the mark by so far it's not funny. PD had the time and resources to create something incredible but in the end delivered an average game (with a brilliant physics model, mind you).

If the development of previous Forza games is anything to go by, I am tipping FM4 to blow GT5 out of the water

 

[niky]

^I second banning these types of threads!!

If we did, then the Forza versus GT discussion would spill over into every other thread on the board. That's what makes these threads important.

And, as you can see... when people who actually love driving games and know them speak up, it can be a very good discussion.

 

[CarreraGT]

What's wrong with these types of threads? GT and FM are direct competitors so it only makes sense to compare them. Besides, it's games like Forza that make GT as good as it is (well, could be)