What does GT5 have over FM3?

[SuperCobraJet]

What annoys me most about GT5 is , what the game could and should have been.
It should have been the definitive racing game after so long in development.
What really went wrong?
How did online leaderboards miss the release? I can't believe that they are missing.
Maybe they will get patched in but they were in prologue, so what caused them to be taken out?
I can still remember a photo of the PD team taking notes while playing Forza3 backstage at E3.
So what notes were they taking?

You hit the nail square on the head.

Because of that dissapointment, I think I'm more critical of GT5, than FM3.
But I believe its justified.

Improved physics and graphics can't begin to make up for the losses incurred with GT5.
At least not for me anyway.

I agree with this. Either they were blind or someone lost those notes because GT5 missed the mark by so far it's not funny. PD had the time and resources to create something incredible but in the end delivered an average game (with a brilliant physics model, mind you).

If the development of previous Forza games is anything to go by, I am tipping FM4 to blow GT5 out of the water

PD certainly left the door wide open for them.
Whether they can capatilize on the opportunity, who knows?

 

[Barso]

That's why PD should capitaliza NOW!
They need to come out and tell us what plans they have and how they hope to fix or extend the life of GT5 before it's to late and I don't mean some dlc car packs.
I can imagine the turn10/forza4 board meetings are ramping up what they need to do for the release and let's not forget that they have the mighty Microsoft funding their budget.
They already have porsche and let's not count the amount of ferraris they had in forza3.
Now I know GT5 has the better physics engine but that's all it has over forza.
Forza has the better track list and also the mighty fujimi kaido.
There's no way it will have 16 car races but it will be interesting to see what new it will bring to the table.
The thing is, GT5 has already shown it's cards and forza4 has 8 months to beat it.
It's not as if GT6 will be out anytime soon.

 

[Cavallo Rosso]

How about the tuning? Isn't GT5 deeper in that category? I hear FM3 is better at cosmetic upgrading rather than mechanical.

 

[Destinkeys]

What does GT5 have over FM3?

Same thing it has over Shift... Physics. And that is IT.

For some, that's enough. For me, I am beginning to believe it isn't.

Night-time driving certainly isn't one of the things. Not without better headlights, for one thing. Especially if you take into consideration how LITTLE real racing takes place at night on anything other than fully lighted tracks. The vast majority of racing takes place in daylight.

Weather is nice, but it doesn't compensate for what is MISSING from GT5 compared to FM3 and Shift...

You know...

FUN!

 

[CarreraGT]

PD certainly left the door wide open for them.
Whether they can capatilize on the opportunity, who knows?

Not only have they left the door open, they are proceeding to remove the door and knock down the entire wall by wasting time on GT anywhere instead of fixing existing issues.

In all honesty, if PD fixed the AI and a few other things to at least make racing enjoyable, I could overlook the lack of events and poor damage etc.

But as it is, T10 would only need to do a bit of work on the graphics and physics model from FM3 and it would instantly be a better game.

I love GT for what it is supposed to be, a pure driving simulator. But there is only so long I can spend lapping the Nordschleife with no AI before I look for something else

 

[dougdoberman]

I haven't read through much of the thread, just scanning the first coupla pages and the last, but I found the link on the first page to another thread where InfamousDee listed all of the great things that GT5 was supposed to have in its favor amusing. Did he turn out to be so impressed by this laundry list of pre-release PD hype, much of which managed to be a let-down?

• 219 cars showcasing a level of detail never seen before in a videogame, including fully-modelled cockpits, each taking 6 months' worth of man hours to perfect.
• 812 cars taken from past Gran Turismo games, with updated physics, sounds and lighting.
• Over 27 unique tracks with over 70 layouts, each taking 2 years' worth of man hours to perfect, including the Top Gear Test Track.
• Handling dynamics completely unrivalled on home consoles.
• A huge range of racing disciplines, including NASCAR, WRC, karting and F1.
• Real-time deformation damage model.
• Dynamic dirt accumulation on cars.
• Dynamic weather and time of day cycles, showcasing rain, snow, humidity, air pressure and moving, volumetric clouds that cast shadows on the ground dynamically.
• Customisation including engine and chassis overhauls, as well as the opportunity to tune engine notes.
• Track generation tool.
• Online track days for up to 32 players (16 players racing and 16 players spectating).
• Head-tracking with the PlayStation Eye camera.
• Many real-world racing drivers, including the Stig, some running driving schools in-game.
• 18 mega-pixel Photo Mode incorporating unique locations with the ability to walk around and drive your vehicle.
• 1080p HD replay uploads to YouTube.
• True 1080p at 60fps.
• Hugely in-depth "B-Spec mode" where the player takes on the role of crew chief.
• The ability to take your vehicles round "stunt arenas".

How many of those are either non-existent or only present in an extremely limited fashion?

This is why you don't buy into the hype machine folks. Don't believe it until you see it.

(I particularly like the "Hugely in-depth B-Spec mode" bit)

 

[porsche 9146]

How about the tuning? Isn't GT5 deeper in that category? I hear FM3 is better at cosmetic upgrading rather than mechanical.

FM3 is much deeper than GT5 in all areas of tuning and customization, from engine swaps to liveries, from rim changes to minute suspension tuning.

 

[Devedander]

I haven't read through much of the thread, just scanning the first coupla pages and the last, but I found the link on the first page to another thread where InfamousDee listed all of the great things that GT5 was supposed to have in its favor amusing. Did he turn out to be so impressed by this laundry list of pre-release PD hype, much of which managed to be a let-down?

• 219 cars showcasing a level of detail never seen before in a videogame, including fully-modelled cockpits, each taking 6 months' worth of man hours to perfect.
• 812 cars taken from past Gran Turismo games, with updated physics, sounds and lighting.
• Over 27 unique tracks with over 70 layouts, each taking 2 years' worth of man hours to perfect, including the Top Gear Test Track.
• Handling dynamics completely unrivalled on home consoles.
• A huge range of racing disciplines, including NASCAR, WRC, karting and F1.
• Real-time deformation damage model.
• Dynamic dirt accumulation on cars.
• Dynamic weather and time of day cycles, showcasing rain, snow, humidity, air pressure and moving, volumetric clouds that cast shadows on the ground dynamically.
• Customisation including engine and chassis overhauls, as well as the opportunity to tune engine notes.
• Track generation tool.
• Online track days for up to 32 players (16 players racing and 16 players spectating).
• Head-tracking with the PlayStation Eye camera.
• Many real-world racing drivers, including the Stig, some running driving schools in-game.
• 18 mega-pixel Photo Mode incorporating unique locations with the ability to walk around and drive your vehicle.
• 1080p HD replay uploads to YouTube.
• True 1080p at 60fps.
• Hugely in-depth "B-Spec mode" where the player takes on the role of crew chief.
• The ability to take your vehicles round "stunt arenas".

How many of those are either non-existent or only present in an extremely limited fashion?

This is why you don't buy into the hype machine folks. Don't believe it until you see it.

(I particularly like the "Hugely in-depth B-Spec mode" bit)

While I don't have the time to go dig them up, it would be quite something to get a time machine and take what GT5 turned out to be back and show people months or years even before launch... I mean some of ths smug certainty of how awesome everythihng was going to be was bad enough to sit through early on but as details leaked out and things started to look questionable on some fronts and the PD defense force kicked into high gear... man that was donwright ridiculous...

And those like me who tried to keep things reasonably reserved and honestly point out what didnt' look like it was shaping up to be so hot... always shot down and told how silly and wrong we would be and how just look at previous GTs!

That thread he linked to was pretty much one of the last big stabs by the faithful to keep their own spirits up in the face of a lot of bad news... I mean look at the first post... same as Dees list... turned out to be so much that was hyped to sound great and mostly turned out to be meh... who needs a livery editor when you can paint any wheels any color? Vast and diverse online environment?

That's what happens when everything that looks goood is "confirmed" the second a screen grab or video hints about it, but you deny all the bad news (even when retail copies were in peoples hands people still denied that cockpit view was not in standards or that damage was basically non existent).

It's amazing to read through

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=132470

And that was only a few months ago! The hype was way deeper 6 monts to a year before that!

 

[Luminis]

I mean some of ths smug certainty of how awesome everythihng was going to be was bad enough to sit through early on but as details leaked out and things started to look questionable on some fronts and the PD defense force kicked into high gear... man that was donwright ridiculous...

Agreed. Especially because most of the 'hating on GT5' turned out to be exactly what we got.

Either way, it's pretty interesting to take a look at such an old feature list.
I'm actually wondering whether there are any plans of implementing at least some of the stuff that didn't make the cut?

 

[Shinzah]

I thought this thread was about what GT5 has over FM3. Now its just reems and reems of "Forza did it better" like every other thread on this forum.

 

[niky]

Well... two pages ago there were some nice pro-GT5 arguments.

RE: those other Forza versus GT5 threads, report them. We try to keep all discussions contained within their own threads.

 

[Cavallo Rosso]

FM3 is much deeper than GT5 in all areas of tuning and customization, from engine swaps to liveries, from rim changes to minute suspension tuning.

Interesting, I never played FM3, last racing game played other than GT was Project Gotham. I heard the cars in FM3 don't have their own characteristics, except for speed of course, and the range of ability to take a turn at higher and lower speeds. Basically, this would be the only difference between driving a Ferrari 458 and a Volkswagon Golf for example.

 

[Luminis]

Interesting, I never played FM3, last racing game played other than GT was Project Gotham. I heard the cars in FM3 don't have their own characteristics, except for speed of course, and the range of ability to take a turn at higher and lower speeds. Basically, this would be the only difference between driving a Ferrari 458 and a Volkswagon Golf for example.

Some people may claim that for whatever reason, but the difference is a lot more severe. You'll drastically feel the difference between the different drivetrain layout. But I do think GT5 does that a little better.
Thing is, the tunign can make a vast difference (moreso than it does in GT5, from my experience) so that might be where that idea comes from...

 

[Devedander]

I thought this thread was about what GT5 has over FM3. Now its just reems and reems of "Forza did it better" like every other thread on this forum.

In all fairness the whole "how awesome GT5 is" thing has been done for about the last 4 years now... it was much easier to keep up pro GT5 sentiment before GT5 actually existed...

 

[DEATHSARTHE]

The Real Driving Simulator... lol such a cop out. I had always thought that about GT when they don't measure up to what they are indeed competing against. It's not a PS3 game, it's a Driving Simulator!

 

[cureme]

What does GT5 have over FM3?


You know...

FUN!

That's exactly it. I don't think, at any point, I have had 'fun' playing GT5. At the end of the day, it is still a video game and has to have some sort of fun factor. I guess it depends on the individual; like what they want out of a game. Like maybe most GT fans don't like the physics of say F1 2010, but for flat out, edge of your seat driving, it works for me, and I have fun playing it. And yeah, the customisation in FM3 puts GT5 to shame, but again, that may be something that's not important to some peeps. I think, as a package, FM3 is superior, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Devedander]

The Real Driving Simulator... lol such a cop out. I had always thought that about GT when they don't measure up to what they are indeed competing against. It's not a PS3 game, it's a Driving Simulator!

The argument it's a simulator, as if that somehow excuses the requirements of being a good game, has always seemed obvoiusly flawed to me because clearly GT is built to be a game... if not there would be no prize/leve/credit/progression system...

If it was just a simulator, all it would need is to have all the tracks and cars available from the get so you could just simulate driving cars.

The very fact that they have even built in the progression system makes it a defacto "game".

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck... doesn't matter if you paint "ultimate horse" on the side, it's still a duck.

 

[dunker]

GT5,
Awesome Night/Weather racing.
Slightly better physics.
Better Nordschleife.
Better Photo mode.

FM3,
Leaderboards.
More "premium" cars.
Better tuning.
Livery/decals painting.
Better ForceFeedback, can feel the tyres.

the main difference for me is in FM3 you can sit down and create a very personal car, with a vast variety of parts and tune and paint it and then if you want go and sell it for in-game credits. or if it's a really good tune not to sell it but go a beat everyone online in it hehe.

i have both and think both are very good but i'm back playing FM3 where even on a cheap ms wheel i can feel the tyres which i can't on my g25 wheel in gt5 and that's a big immersion loss. i also missed in fm3 engine swaps, drivetrain swaps etc, a very deep level of adding parts and tuning which is alot of fun.

 

[Yohdawg]

Besides all that's already been stated this is how I feel about FM3 and GT5.

I personally feel that FM3 is more difficult to play. Since their career mode and other events have performance index limitations you sometimes have to decide what will be the best way to utilize your chosen machine and the upgrades allowed for it. It keeps it very competitive for me at least since I just can't enter my FGT into the race and lap everyone (although there are many races where there is no limitation like many of the GT5 races).

I tend to enjoy my race cars in FM3 more because I can customize them a bit and because there are many races where PI is a factor I'll become more attached to them. I love tuning them and because I can save race settings it isn't a chore swapping between tunes (per track, per class, etc) or cars.

There's just something about FM3's physics that just feels better than GT5 for me. It's a bit floaty at times and the cars with assists turned off are a handful (much more than GT5) to control. I really have to stay focused with the controls but it just seems more rewarding for me. I just feel like when I win a difficult race (AI on hard mode can be frustrating, hence why I haven't finished the game) I've earned it.

A huge plus is tuning on the fly and more tuning options.

The biggest thing between the two is how FM3 doesn't really slow down. The career mode keeps moving you up the ranks and you get to pick different areas where you want to race. If you need to prepare or need a break you can just go to their event races and have a go at them. There are plenty to choose from.

GT5 is a fun game. It's grown on me but is it perfect? Hardly. We all know that the premiums look fantastic and you really need a wheel to appreciate the physics of the game but it just feels sluggish at many times.

Everything just seems like a chore in GT5. Load screens, annoying UI, level restrictions, BSpec, GT Auto maintenance is just...lame.

Even the older GT series you had to grind but at least you could grind for those hard to get prize machines. I remember doing so many endurance races in hopes of getting that ONE car and it didn't hurt if I didn't get it because I'll just do it again. Nope... Nothing... I got a stupid lower level car that is damn near pointless at my level.

But that's the thing about GT5. I'll keep playing it because it does have those cars that I love and wish FM3 had.

In short I still play FM3; more so since BSpeccing is a total time suck. GT5 is like homework. It feels like you have to do it. Sometimes it can be fun, sometimes it's just...Homework...

Honestly the game that I was most surprised with was F1 2010.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

How about the tuning? Isn't GT5 deeper in that category? I hear FM3 is better at cosmetic upgrading rather than mechanical.

Yess muchos More!

 

[JoeMaPampang]

I thought this thread was about what GT5 has over FM3. Now its just reems and reems of "Forza did it better" like every other thread on this forum.

Yes because it is MUCH more enjoyable. And i have both consoles i still go back too Forza after more than a year after release. it's just THAT good of a game. an the AI is much better wich means i dont need 16 cars on track if i passed 70% of them in the first corner.

Interesting, I never played FM3, last racing game played other than GT was Project Gotham. I heard the cars in FM3 don't have their own characteristics, except for speed of course, and the range of ability to take a turn at higher and lower speeds. Basically, this would be the only difference between driving a Ferrari 458 and a Volkswagon Golf for example.

Thats a load of bollocks my friend and it explains it all because you never actually played it. All cars in Forza even all the new generations of Porsches like (GT3, GT3 RS, GT2) each handle totally different. Who told you that?

 

[Cavallo Rosso]

Some friends of mine who played both games. Since I never played FM3 I asked them how the cars drove and I get the same answers all the time. The handling characteristics are there, but are less noticeable than the cars in GT games.

 

[Barso]

What I find amazing about this thread is the amount of positive feedback towards forza3.
Imagine if someone posted that the forza franchise would be equal if not better that the GT franchise?
Just remember that forza has the mighty microsoft bank balance behind it, how else did they get porsche and the ability to damage them?
Remember Kaz saying damage couldn't be done because manufacturers didn't like their creations being scratched?
I understand that both games have their positives and negatives but how long has GT been out compared to forza?
Forza has an assist when playing with the joypad that can't be removed, maybe forza 4 will give us the option.
I can only imagine that the turn10/microsoft board meeting are laughing right now as they now know what to do to forza4 to make it better that gran turismo, before they were probably nervous with the mighty GT5 coming.
Also we know PSP2 is coming soon and there are rumours that it will be able to play PS3 games on the go. So you could possible carry your saves with you and continue playing while on holiday.That is extremely tempting and will force me to go PS4 next gen no matter how good forza is.

 

[Luminis]

Some friends of mine who played both games. Since I never played FM3 I asked them how the cars drove and I get the same answers all the time. The handling characteristics are there, but are less noticeable than the cars in GT games.

Well, they are not completely wrong. The difference is a little bit more noticible in Gran Turismo 5. A little bit. I just want to emphasise on that. It's not a very drastic difference, but it is there,

However, this is indded influenced quite a bit by the impact tunign can have in FM3. Cars with an equal layout, say, two FR cars will feel more alike if they are tuned to perform and handle equally.
While the difference between a 350Z and a 370Z is noticble while both cars are stock, they become closer and closer the more you work on them.
This doesn't happen as much in GT5, in my opinion. Altering a cars characteristics isn't as in-depth, I think.

Personally, I don't know which one is more realistic in that regard. I do think that altering a car's suspension willa ffect the handling imensly, but I can't say for sure, as I have not enough real life experience to pass final judgment on that issue.

Either way, if you want to test it out for yourself...
Buy the Porsche 996 GT2 and the 997 GT2. Same RR layout, very similar cars in general - butvastly different in handling.

 

[Barso]

I think what also doesn't help forza is the replays, the cars never seem to sway when entering and coming out of corners and also the cockpit view doesn't do it either but I would imagine this is in the checklist for forza 4.

 

[RogsR34UK]

At least you don't get the cars rear end to go into an uncontrollable wag in FM3. I have yet to figure out how to get out of that in GT5.

I won't even mention DLC in FM3 that is actually cars that have been requested, though some of the DLC cars do have a rather toy like appearance in FM3.

 

[Cavallo Rosso]

What about the tires? In FM3, are the Sports tires like the Racing tires in GT5? and are the racing tires in FM3 super sticky?

Also, in response to the 350z and 370z comparison, I too compared those two cars in GT5 though. I've noticed the differences between them in GT5 is weight balance mostly. I find it easier to control the older car when mashing the brakes, and in the newer car, I have to play the brake gradually and a bit earlier when driving straight or it begins to get shaky. Both cars are tuned differently though, I have them equal in weight, and power, but the drive trains are different, this could be why.

Would the Drive train setup have a drastic difference in FM3? Or do power, weight, braking power and tires only matter?

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Um, Forza. Cash cow game with minimal depth aimed at having a life span only as long as it takes them to redesign the whole concept so they can sell it back to you as something equally as noobish the next year.

Bottom line is GT5 is designed for fans of cars while Forza is designed to appeal to children, arcade racers and the wider noobish population with little taste and even less comprehension of quality.

The next installment of Forza will be more of the same more flashy throw away crap. It will never be a FULL game. That doesn't fit their business plan.

hahah you really funny it almost sounds like you're serious.
No lifespan? You must be talking about GT5 with only 172 races and a crappy B-spec that's exactly the same only more laps. i can also o this in Forza. After more than a year i still go back playing Forza after i'm done with GT5(often after 15 minutes) LOL get it LOL aaah forget it

 

[Barso]

Also forza needs to be careful with the kinect interface. I bought kinect at Christmas and haven't touched it since, if kinect is the future for forza then I won't be buying it.
I don't care how accurate they make it but it's not for me.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

I think what also doesn't help forza is the replays, the cars never seem to sway when entering and coming out of corners and also the cockpit view doesn't do it either but I would imagine this is in the checklist for forza 4.

Yes that is correct it's because the Replay-camera is linked too the cars chassis and is reverse track so that ony the suspension seems too move. i hate it and i looks much better in GT5 and GT5P.
I hope it will be fixed in Forza 4. Also the cars reflection is much more impressive in GT5.

Also forza needs to be careful with the kinect interface. I bought kinect at Christmas and haven't touched it since, if kinect is the future for forza then I won't be buying it.
I don't care how accurate they make it but it's not for me.

It's not going too be implemented as the replacement for a controller nor a wheel. IT IS AN EXTRA OPTION.