What does GT5 have over FM3?

[Organ-Donor]

@ the last 2 posts. 👍

 

[Scaff]

I've been a longtime lurker and recently registered but sometimes I wonder if I'm at forzaplanet.

Click on this and see what happens...

www.forzaplanet.net

This is like a religious battle of who has the best prophet.

The Loyal followers of the Lord Sony, the merciful but sometimes vengeful. He who gave to the common people the messiah Gran Turismo the Fifth reincarnation through the holy virgin mother the Playstation 3. Gran Turismo V seeks not to obtain all glory, only to be the best it can be for it's people and for all people, unfortunately it's teachings are misinterpreted often creating varying experiences for all. There are rumors of Gran Turismo returning to the earthly realm a sixth time, but there has been no finite proof, but believers remain certain it will return.

Then there is the god-fearing those who worship the great and all-mighty Microsoft who shined his will upon Take 10 game developers in the form of a game console he called The X-box 360, with their new knowledge they created the epitome for all to experience, the great Forza Motorsport 3. Forza of Motorsport III believes that all people should partake in the good word, and it's practitioners are the word to bring all who breath into it's folds. Forza of Motorsport III has written that he will return a forth time, he claims that it will return a fourth time to spread the good will a short few months after the holy Ramadan.

Gran Turismo 5 = Jesus?
Forza Motorsport 3 = Mohammad?

Only for the very silly (but a few current and quite a few ex-members spring to mind).




Lets be honest only the most zealously narrow-minded would ignore the fact that both series have pro's and con's, but my favorite ones have to be 'yeah but GT/FM (delete as applicable) does have 'real' physics!!!!!!". To which I have only two points in response:

1. Its a simulator - it can't have 100% real physics ever
2. What does it have telling the cars what to do? Rabbits?

Scaff

 

[gambleboyen]

Jeff Gordan.

Jeff the zombie. "Don't hit the cones"

 

[Pierced Lead]

I don't know what GT5 has over FM3, but I know what the PS3 has over the 360...

 

[snoopybg]

Cross game chat?

 

[bodger]

Gathering the facts:

* GT4 had around same physics as Ridge Racer. Absolute zero

* Telemetry in GT5 is absent

Not sure what you have gathered here, but it isn't a fact.

There is a fully featured telemetry screen. There is even a trophy for using it!

The comment about the physics is risible. It doesn't seem as if you have played either game.

Try actually playing GT5 first before throwing opinions around.

 

[LordSandwich]

The tire HUD is the temperature of the tires calculated instantaneously. Notice how theyre dark blue when you start a race and the grip is poor.

Engine and exhaust sounds are all recorded straight from the cars themselves on all premium cars. They sound fantastic on my system. Im not sure why the sound receives so many complaints.

Both of these facts are in some videos from GT TV

 

[Gaiajohan]

Well, actually PGR cars are harder to control than Race Pro.

Harder does not mean realistic. That seems to be a huge mistake in the pc modding community.

In Race Pro all cars except Caterham heavily undesteer and impossible to spin. Maybe that's how FIA GT cars drive, I don't know. And nobody does.

Of course the WTCC are understeered because theyre FWD except the BMW's, but the GT cars can clearly be oversteered. You just need to change some settings (lower rear wing, harder rear springs and maybe some more, as Simbin (like usually, also in GTR Evo) put every car on a 'safe' understeering setting so everyone can drive with it.

Overall driving is pretty boring because of this. Tracks also rise some doubts, corkscrew on Laguna Seca in Race Pro is wide enough for at least three semis passing in one row

You shouldn't forget their small budget They don't have the money to spend €5 million a game, where Polyphony spended €60 million or so.

 

[Centurion_cz]

I always hear what FM3 has over GT5, but I wanna hear honest opinions from FM3 players who played both games.

I can tell you straight away what GT5 has and Forza hasn't - style. You can feel, that GT5 was made by someone who likes cars and has a certain feel for them. You get loads of information about every car in the game (which I spend a lot of time reading, because I'm very interested in every car's history) and you can take photographs of them in different romantic locations - If GT5 were only a game, this feature wouldn't be present.
Forza 3 is a decent sim, but it's more of a game. It's more gameplay centered and less "petrolhead" (or "gearhead" if you will) centered. Kazunori would never let you put stickers on cars - it ruins their lines...

 

[Accelerate]

To all people saying GT5 has better graphics, are you insane? It may have 200 odd cars with all nuts and bolts modelled, but as far as the rest of the game goes it is no way near as polished as FM3. I think quality beats quantity. 500+ cars with equal detail, beats 200 odd stupidly detailed cars and 800 last gen ports.

Now the physics in GT5 are on a higher level than FM3's though.

 

[Spagetti69]

Kazunori would never let you put stickers on cars - it ruins their lines...

Why does he want it in GT6 then. Had he sold out or something?

 

[DenYaSon]

Don't you just hate the generic exhaust sound just before a race starts on FM3. It just doesn't look as good as GT5. Driving is easy on FM3 whilst on GT5 it can be hard, very hard.... which is very realistic as i'm no racing driver. What I like about FM3, which most people appreciate is the custom paint designs on the cars, the car marketplace for trading, buying cars. Mostly the ability to rewind, it just helps the less gifted drivers out there, saving all that time restarting a race.

 

[Luminis]

I haven't played GT5 for a year already, so it feels still fresh (as opposed to Forza).

Other than that, I couldn't really pick a favourite. Both have ups and downs, lots of it. But for the same reason as aboth, I'll be probably switching over to FM4 by the end of next year, simply because, by that time, I'll be just as fed up with GT5 as I'm fed up with FM3 right now.

But, anyways, GT5 vs. FM3 in a nutshell:
GT5: Better simulator.
FM3: Better game.

Matter of preference, really.

 

[TT3AZ]

Really, the only things GT5 has over FM3 is car physics, more cars, 16 players in online game, and some better tracks with dynamic weather. Well we will se how Forza 4 will be, luckily i have booth ps3 and 360.

 

[Centurion_cz]

Why does he want it in GT6 then. Had he sold out or something?

Possibly. It was mentioned in almost every review on every gaming website, that GT5 lacks proper visual customization. Maybe Kaz thought that he should feature it in future GT games to appeal to those, requesting it. I don't think stickers will make it into GT6 though - If Kaz really wanted them, they'd already be included in GT5.

 

[Pierced Lead]

To all people saying GT5 has better graphics, are you insane? It may have 200 odd cars with all nuts and bolts modelled, but as far as the rest of the game goes it is no way near as polished as FM3. I think quality beats quantity. 500+ cars with equal detail, beats 200 odd stupidly detailed cars and 800 last gen ports.

Forza is more consistent, but when at their best, GT5's graphics, the lighting system, the textures, details etc. are indeed the best.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

To the people who mention Forza having more tracks.
This is true but Forza track list is padded with some really crappy tracks to get to that number. Take away the Benchmark tracks which can barely be called tracks and the number drops a lot. Take away the side winders as well and it drops alot more. Altough the King Cobra is pretty good.

After this you still have several tracks but of those several of the variations should have been left out. A couple of the mini tracks forward and reverse and even a couple of the shorts are pretty lame tracks.

If you count only the good tracks and variations from both games GT has more.

Forza does have 3 really cool original tracks in Maple Valley, Fuji Kiado and Rally Positano and two more that are decent in Sunset and Almafi Coast.

 

[Lucas]

But, anyways, GT5 vs. FM3 in a nutshell:
GT5: Better simulator.
FM3: Better game.

Matter of preference, really.

That's basically what's happening to me right now:
GT4: What I believe is a better simulator.
ToCA 3: What I'm sure is a better game.

That each one of those two has its pro's and con's makes me go from one game to another.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Toca 3 was cool. I also like GT Ledgends

 

[HBK]

What does GT5 have over FM3 ?

In my humble opinion, a much better "driving" feeling.

And of course gorgeous lighting/reflections, but I find this offset by the fact that the game struggles to hit 60fps, with all the tearing it brings and that awful sensation of "weird fluidity".

As for the "simulation" aspect, I will first say that I fully agree with Scaff's post there: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4335564#post4335564

Then, I will say that even if I find that GT5 much better recreates the "driving feel" than Forza 3, I actually have the feeling that much more things are going on under the hood of Forza 3's physics engine.

It's hard to explain, but basically, every time I lose control in Forza 3, I fully understand what happened and therefore which mistake I made, such as bad driving line, hitting the apex too soon or too late, braking too late, re-accelerating too violently, and so forth. But when I lose control in GT5, many times I'm just wondering what happened and therefore am left guessing what was wrong in my driving, like it's not my fault but the fault of the car.

I don't know, maybe it's just a lack of feedback (although driving with DFP on a 1080p projector and a very good sound system). But the intuition I have is that GT5 is just like a big giant extremely well done mystification. Just like, in fact, everything is fake but is so well done than it's amazing. And for Forza 3, it's somewhat the opposite, my intuition is that everything is computed applying as much physical rules as possible, but the end result is not as satisfying, as the physical model lacks some details or uses some incorrect values.

Regardless, regarding the pure driving feeling, I think that Forza 3 has a great feeling of grip but lacks body simulation and/or has some extremely simple suspension modeling. Whereas in GT5, it feels like there is a minimal tire simulation but a very well done representation of body behavior which lead to a much better "driving feeling".

As for the engine (car engine) simulation, both games are utterly lacking in my opinion. Maybe Forza 3 is a less worse, but not by much.

Well, just talking about driving physics here. As a game, Forza 3 is way better than GT5, in my opinion.

 

[machschnel]

What does GT5 have over FM3 ?

In my humble opinion, a much better "driving" feeling.

And of course gorgeous lighting/reflections, but I find this offset by the fact that the game struggles to hit 60fps, with all the tearing it brings and that awful sensation of "weird fluidity".

As for the "simulation" aspect, I will first say that I fully agree with Scaff's post there: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4335564#post4335564

Then, I will say that even if I find that GT5 much better recreates the "driving feel" than Forza 3, I actually have the feeling that much more things are going on under the hood of Forza 3's physics engine.

It's hard to explain, but basically, every time I lose control in Forza 3, I fully understand what happened and therefore which mistake I made, such as bad driving line, hitting the apex too soon or too late, braking too late, re-accelerating too violently, and so forth. But when I lose control in GT5, many times I'm just wondering what happened and therefore am left guessing what was wrong in my driving, like it's not my fault but the fault of the car.

I don't know, maybe it's just a lack of feedback (although driving with DFP on a 1080p projector and a very good sound system). But the intuition I have is that GT5 is just like a big giant extremely well done mystification. Just like, in fact, everything is fake but is so well done than it's amazing. And for Forza 3, it's somewhat the opposite, my intuition is that everything is computed applying as much physical rules as possible, but the end result is not as satisfying, as the physical model lacks some details or uses some incorrect values.

Regardless, regarding the pure driving feeling, I think that Forza 3 has a great feeling of grip but lacks body simulation and/or has some extremely simple suspension modeling. Whereas in GT5, it feels like there is a minimal tire simulation but a very well done representation of body behavior which lead to a much better "driving feeling".

As for the engine (car engine) simulation, both games are utterly lacking in my opinion. Maybe Forza 3 is a less worse, but not by much.

Well, just talking about driving physics here. As a game, Forza 3 is way better than GT5, in my opinion.

I've yet to play Forza 3, but your explanation might explain why a lot of people say it's "easier" to drive. As repeated ad nauseum, hard doesn't equal good. Maybe Forza is easier to drive because it replicates the feeling of driving a car (something some of us do everyday) better?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I've yet to play Forza 3, but your explanation might explain why a lot of people say it's "easier" to drive. As repeated ad nauseum, hard doesn't equal good. Maybe Forza is easier to drive because it replicates the feeling of driving a car (something some of us do everyday) better?

No it does not. Forza 3 pushes for AWD swaps and pretty much every car has understeer so for those who have trouble controlling oversteer that should be present in pretty much any high powered race car the cars are easier to handle. Add to that the steering assist that can not be turned off and the very unrealistic grip of stock tires and you have something that is far from realistic.

GT5 feels much better than Forza 3 as does Forza 2.

It is easy to win in Forza after all they help you steer, let you use auto braking and set the AI to easy where even on hard it is not hard and they give you a rewind option so you can redo any time you make a mistake.

I wonder if I could have a rewind button installed on my Mustang so that if I do ever get in an accident I could just hit the button and undo the mishap. I bet that would make my insurance a lot cheaper.

 

[machschnel]

It is easy to win in Forza after all they help you steer, let you use auto braking and set the AI to easy where even on hard it is not hard and they give you a rewind option so you can redo any time you make a mistake.

But your'e not in a real car. You can't catch oversteer in a game like you can in real life, so I imagine that's what the steering aid is for.

And you do realize most real cars have aids anyway? Even F1 for a little while. Must be some pretty amateur drivers huh?

Rewind? Well it is a game. I could list all the unrealistic things Gran Turismo does, but I think you get my point yeah?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

But your'e not in a real car. You can't catch oversteer in a game like you can in real life, so I imagine that's what the steering aid is for.

And you do realize most real cars have aids anyway? Even F1 for a little while. Must be some pretty amateur drivers huh?

Rewind? Well it is a game. I could list all the unrealistic things Gran Turismo does, but I think you get my point yeah?

You can catch oversteer in a game. I do it all the time. Forza 2 had lots of oversteer and the driving aids that help you steer are on very few cars in real life and I do mean very few. TCS is on several newer cars and on mine there is a switch to turn it off ABS is on most newer cars as well.

Show me a real life 1969 Charger with 1149bhp, TCS ABS ASM AWD and steering assist. Oh and auto brake with rewind.

The point is they made Forza easier to drive for the Novice driver and took away the realism that was in Forza 2. Easier is not better it just keeps you from learning how to do it right.

 

[prymet1me]

No it does not. Forza 3 pushes for AWD swaps and pretty much every car has understeer so for those who have trouble controlling oversteer that should be present in pretty much any high powered race car the cars are easier to handle. Add to that the steering assist that can not be turned off and the very unrealistic grip of stock tires and you have something that is far from realistic.

GT5 feels much better than Forza 3 as does Forza 2.

It is easy to win in Forza after all they help you steer, let you use auto braking and set the AI to easy where even on hard it is not hard and they give you a rewind option so you can redo any time you make a mistake.

I wonder if I could have a rewind button installed on my Mustang so that if I do ever get in an accident I could just hit the button and undo the mishap. I bet that would make my insurance a lot cheaper.

This seems to be the hard opinion in all of your posts regarding FM3 and I have no issue respecting your opinion. I still play FM today and I had it since the month it came out and YES the AWD swaps are annoying but your gripes about options that make the game easy seem ridiculous. Correct me if im wrong here but shouldn't video games be made for EVERYONE to enjoy and get some sense of progress and I don't know maybe even success when playing them?

It almost seems that there is some GT elite syndrome with some of the fans that act like you must be the uttermost hardcore of the hardcore to play a racing sim and if you are not have have not business playing or even thinking about GT5. So what if it can be easy to win in FM3, I don't play FM or GT5 to come in anything but first place when I am playing offline and YES I use rewind if I smash up my car because I decided to be a late braking daredevil and flew off the track on the last lap, so in your world I should be allowed to play racing sims. I seriously cant figure out what is the difference between rewind during the race and pressing restart to begin the race all over again from the start.

And I am in awe at your driving skills because with my controller and assists off I simply cannot control an R1 car with TCS off, so what should I do? Skip the races all together or show my hardcore dedication and play it over and over until I "earn" the right to drive the car...on a video game.

Both franchises could learn MUCH from each other but I will say it seems T10 watches and improves on options and offerings that GT do and have done while it seems PD does not do the same.

And before the posts about youngster whining and wanting easy games get posted here get real, my work kids and misses doesn't give me the time I used to grind games all day.

 

[machschnel]

1969

Ummm, you do realize it's nearly 2011 right?

 

[Cheshyrkat]

The driving is more satisfying. Just better feel and feedback. I also like the leveling but as a whole Forza is a more complete/consistent game. But in the end its the driving that keeps me coming back and F3 just didnt have it for me so it was quickly put down.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Ummm, you do realize it's nearly 2011 right?

And that means what? I do not care if it is 2222 the 69 Charger is just an example of one of many cars in the game and most of them are encouraged to be made into AWD and they are totally unrealistic. The driving aids as well come on all these cars without spending one extra credit for them where-as in reality it would cost a small fortune to equip any of these older cars with these things.

Sure some people like it apparently but to call it more like a real car? Get real there is nothing real about it.

This seems to be the hard opinion in all of your posts regarding FM3 and I have no issue respecting your opinion. I still play FM today and I had it since the month it came out and YES the AWD swaps are annoying but your gripes about options that make the game easy seem ridiculous. Correct me if im wrong here but shouldn't video games be made for EVERYONE to enjoy and get some sense of progress and I don't know maybe even success when playing them?

I hate the AWD swaps due to the way they effect the PI on the cars and as a result the leaderboards so that is a legit gripe imo.
I hate the auto brake because peopel I know who used to be decent drivers started using it and lost thier edge.

I hate the lack of public lobbies and several other things they did. Yet I too played the game over the last year quite alot.

Oh well. It just gets my goat really that they took steps backward in so many areas after Forza 2 removeing some of the best things about the game in favor of making it more friendly to those who are not serious about racing games. I guess this is what my gripe really boils down to. What can I say, I have a very strong opinion on the matter lol.

 

[Luminis]

No it does not. Forza 3 pushes for AWD swaps and pretty much every car has understeer so for those who have trouble controlling oversteer that should be present in pretty much any high powered race car the cars are easier to handle. Add to that the steering assist that can not be turned off and the very unrealistic grip of stock tires and you have something that is far from realistic.

I don't really want to get into a Forza vs. GT discussion, however, I'll say this: Personally, I found race cars, such as GT2 or LMP cars a lot harder to control in Forza than I do in Gran Turismo.

Taming a 1000+HP, 850kg Minolta Toyota? Peace of cake in GT5.
Controling a way less powefull R15 TDI? Quite a challenge in Forza.
At least if both are driven wothout any driving assists (except for ABS = 1 for GT5).

Furthermore, I, personally, found most race cars to be pretty oversteery rather than understeery.

But still, I think that GT5 simulates the actual driving better. Forza is just not as far behind as some people make it out to be. Or would it like to be, I don't know.

The driving aids as well come on all these cars without spending one extra credit for them where-as in reality it would cost a small fortune to equip any of these older cars with these things.

Well, show me a '69 Camaro that comes with TCS, ASM, ABS and skit recovery force stock then, if accuracy is that important.

Or any other car with skit recovery force.

If you turn all the assist on, both games will nanny you through a race in an unrealistic way.

Speaking of unrealistic stuff... I guess there are as many X1s running around real tracks as there are AWD Vipers.

 

[Luminis]

Double post