- 4,081
- United States
- KvallyX
- KvallyX
5.5 million to retailers. Forza 3's numbers are to consumers.
What does GT5 have over FM3?
- Thread starter GTOne2Three
- 1,097 comments
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- 1,246
- belgium
- bertvw
Dude, Forza's numbers are taken from untrusty sources, and yes gt is sold to retailers... Wich means those retailers pay for the game, so the numbers are correct.
If we only had a counter like the call of duty games...
Have you seen the old numbers? GT1,2,3,4,...
Forza got half of the least amount sold GT game...
Not trying to flame, but that's what the world knows.
If we only had a counter like the call of duty games...
Have you seen the old numbers? GT1,2,3,4,...
Forza got half of the least amount sold GT game...
Not trying to flame, but that's what the world knows.
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- 9,295
- Duisburg
- 1,246
- belgium
- bertvw
Indeed, very true! 
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Indeed, very true!
👍
Some of the greatest games I've played myself got lousy sales figures...
Anyways, as far as Forza and GT go, it's probably down to the franchises popularitiy, first and fooremost.
- 1,246
- belgium
- bertvw
I played games probably only 1000 people played, seriously good gameplay games, but yeah like you said. Definately franchise!
- 687
Well, no. Retailers buy games on a sale or return basis. Sort of. They are normally tied into contracts that basically say "if title x sells less than y percent of shipped stock, you can return any unsold stock".
Though it shows the kind of mark-up retailers put on titles that it's more often than not cheaper to knock 33-50% of the original rrp than it is to return it to the distributor.
One of the publishers I worked for about 10 years ago would buy up a lot of this returned stock, repackage it and sell it at a £5price point. And made millions doing so.
On the flip side of this, developers will only ever get a cut of the profit from sold units, not units shipped (as will publishers if they don't do their own distribution). This renders "units shipped" somewhat a useless figure. Especially when you consider that the developer (PD in this case) won't see a penny of the profit from the sales until they have repaid the advance from the publisher (Sony) - which is what they have used to fund development over the last five years. It's not unheard of for developers to go belly up, despite having a moderately successful title, because they can't cover the advance from their publisher (this is what's happening with Bizarre Creations at the mo, Blur didn't sell as well as the PGR titles, so Activision are pulling the plug).
- 1,246
- belgium
- bertvw
I don't know precisely how PD acts up to Sony, I believe they are still linked to eachother?
That could mean that the whole funding acts out very differently than the way you described it. But i really don't know, all i know is, if even half of those 12 day figures sold for real, it is alot.
But like we said just above, it actually doesn't matter
That could mean that the whole funding acts out very differently than the way you described it. But i really don't know, all i know is, if even half of those 12 day figures sold for real, it is alot.
But like we said just above, it actually doesn't matter
- 706
Most of that is purely your opinion and experience, and you're presenting them as facts. 👎
And IIRC GT5P had the most cps for any console sim, more than 360 cps. I saw a link where they showed the physics engine rate of several games, comparing each, and some PC sims (I think iRacing) had even more.
GT5 wasn't released then so they didn't include it obviously, but if the improved feel is any indication, it probably has more calculations per second than Prologue
- 9,295
- Duisburg
PD is a subsidiary of Sony, just like Sony Computer Entertainment, so they're very closely related.
Forza 3 had the most calculations per seconds as far as physics engines on consoles go, period. And the feel of GT5 doesn't have anything to do with how many calcuations the game performs per second.
It doesn't necessarily create a better driving experience, so it's kinda a moot point to argue.
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- 4,081
- United States
- KvallyX
- KvallyX
Opinion noted.
- 38
Sadly, FM3 is the better game at the moment. If GT5 gets leaderboards at least as good as the ones in FM3, and some kind of matchmaking (again, features that are on the back of the box), then they will be comparable. If through some miracle GT5 gets the ability to race created tracks online, or god forbid the ability to do staged rally events like the special event ones online, then it will start to nudge ahead of FM3, in my opinion.
I have my doubts that GT5 will get any of those, though.
EDIT: I should say, 16 cars on track is a big plus in GT5's favor (although tempered a bit for me by not being able to use AI in online races). Also the lighting is much better (though this is tempered a bit by crappy shadows and track details). Basically the story of GT5 for me is one step forward, two steps back.
I have my doubts that GT5 will get any of those, though.
EDIT: I should say, 16 cars on track is a big plus in GT5's favor (although tempered a bit for me by not being able to use AI in online races). Also the lighting is much better (though this is tempered a bit by crappy shadows and track details). Basically the story of GT5 for me is one step forward, two steps back.
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- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Units shipped vs units sold = craptastic.
How do we calculate units sold? Well, we contact somebody somewhere keeping a (hopefully, but unlikely) accurate inventory at every single retailer in the world. Wow.
Album sales are also generally based off units shipped. Units sold is the biggest headache on the planet, and the quoted number of 2.9 (I think) for Forza3 is probably units shipped also.
I doubt PD was hoping for a penny more than 10 million copies sold, since that what 75% of GT titles sell, and they also got around FM3's sales from GT5P to boot.
Of course, that leads to my "GT5P is really GT5, and GT5 is actually GT6" theory, and that's a whole 'nother discussion.
But for those who claim to know amounts sold....3.6 Million as of last Sunday, I believe, could be wrong, not sure.
http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/7678/gran-turismo-5/
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- 706
Like the old saying goes...
Proof or GTFO
And if the feel of driving is better implemented in GT5 with less calculations, hats off to PD
Don't know if that 'bs', or your entire post for that matter, was meant to be offensive
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Like the old saying goes...
Proof or GTFO
And if the feel of driving is better implemented in GT5 with less calculations, hats off to PD
Proof on TechRadar.
Proof on Kotaku.
- 4,081
- United States
- KvallyX
- KvallyX
No what?
That is according to Microsoft and Turn 10. I mean, tire deformation and even chassis flex 👍
Keep up the good work KazunoriYamagod 👍 Prove them wrong son
- 744
- NOS_Waster or GTP_NOS_Waster
- NOS Waster
Good thing they said "In a console racer" or I would be laughin my arse off at false advertising.
- 208
- Kaaosherra
The console racer, or the quasi-simulator is definitely a genre of it's own. And so far there have been only two game series in this genre.
- 744
- NOS_Waster or GTP_NOS_Waster
- NOS Waster
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Well, of course there'll always be a difference in the way the physics engine is used... Having a the fastest engine doesn't mean the physics will feel the best.Except they use those 360Hz amazingly. I think once they improve their sound engine and tire model, they are probably going to beef up the physics engine.
On another note: I play the PC sims for serious racing and console sims for fun
Either way, what's important, in my opnion, is that the Xbox is capable of running that physics engine, so, technically, T10 could probably improve it quite a bit without hitting the hardware limitations.
- 744
- NOS_Waster or GTP_NOS_Waster
- NOS Waster
- 69
It has been months since I last played Forza 3 (I completed the single career mode, twice and played online loads) so I decided to have a quick blast this week just to compare the two games.
The only areas I think GT5 beats Forza is...
1) Graphics - The lighting in GT5 is wonderful and the car models look great.
2) Physics - GT5 just has the edge but both are very good.
3) Tracks - The range and variety of tracks in GT5 is great and the tracks are more enjoyable to race around
Other hand that I think Forza 3 is a better game. The leaderboards, racing ghosts cars, being able to download tuning setups, the marketplace, the menus, the sorting options for the cars, online.....you can tell alot of time and effort has been spent giving the game lots of very useful features. It bodes well for Forza 4. GT5 just feels rather old fashioned compared to 21st century racing games. It like PD followed the same forumla they used for GT1 and just added more of everything. Unfortunately modern gamers demand alot more from their games.
The only areas I think GT5 beats Forza is...
1) Graphics - The lighting in GT5 is wonderful and the car models look great.
2) Physics - GT5 just has the edge but both are very good.
3) Tracks - The range and variety of tracks in GT5 is great and the tracks are more enjoyable to race around
Other hand that I think Forza 3 is a better game. The leaderboards, racing ghosts cars, being able to download tuning setups, the marketplace, the menus, the sorting options for the cars, online.....you can tell alot of time and effort has been spent giving the game lots of very useful features. It bodes well for Forza 4. GT5 just feels rather old fashioned compared to 21st century racing games. It like PD followed the same forumla they used for GT1 and just added more of everything. Unfortunately modern gamers demand alot more from their games.
- 5,398
- Buenos Aires
Are you suggesting car count on a track is irrelevant? If so, you must be joking. Making your way through the pack adds a lot to the racing experience.
- 69
- 4,323
I just posted this in another thread, but it seems equally valid here (tldr the large fields in GT5 are mostly wasted in a game damaging fashion rather than used to provide a great racing experience):
1: The car must be fast enough to win. There is a point at which no one could possibly win in a given car. Your car must be able to both overtake a whole field of cars rapidly (in order to catch first before he gets way out into nowhere land) and compete/overtake first for the win
2: Your car must be slow enough not to make it a breeze to blow by the competition and take the challenge out of winning.
3: The economy and upgrade system along with no performance ranking for a car make it hard to effectively do this on a regular basis.
4: The loading screens and general clunkiness of getting around GT5 make it undesireably to go back and forth to the tune shop to buy and tinker with buying one part at a time.
I have no interest in getting an overpowered car to blow by the competition, however most of the time this is what happens:
1: Look at likely competition and try to find a car that is near the top of the range. There is no point in buying a car near the bottom that can't win and will cost an arm and a leg to make competitive.
2: Race the car a few times stock in hopes of winning. Sometimes just stock I blow the doors off the competition - sometimes the game just randomly stocks the races with no particularly fast cars. In these cases - situation bad already.
3: If the stock car can't win, I go buy the cheap upgrades (air filter, cat, ecu) and maybe tires. Try again. Chances are now I am blowing by the competition. I COULD go buy just an air filter, then try, then buy JUST a cat and try but as I said, that is quite annoying to do.
4: If I am not competitive with my minor upgrades, I need to buy a bigger upgrade. The problem is these tend to come in 20+hp jumps. So I am likely again to buy some upgrade and now destroy the competition.
It might seem like 10 and 20 hps jumps in power shouldn't make you blow away the competition but due to the way the game is setup, it does. The biggest challenge for winning in most events isn't being competitive with the fastest car, it's being able to pass the pack reliably and catch the first place car before he is way out in the lead. 10hp can be the difference between being able to squeak by an opponent in the turns and not being able to pass them up. When you can't pass the oppoonent, you spend many seconds behind each one waiting for a better spot to pass, when you CAN you suddenly shave many seconds off yoru time becuase you no longer have to wait behind AI cars for the rare easy pass locations and this amplifies (a lot) what 10HP does to your race.
While it is POSSIBLE to find the right car to bring to a race and have a good time, ultimately it's a lot of trouble and the layout of most of the races (read short/no qualifyer) means you don't have a lot of wiggle room in this chase without being a huge time/cr waster.
And if you look way back at my first point 1 - that is the crux of the issue... your car must be potent enough to pass a lot of cars fast because often you will find if you aren't close to first by the 2nd or 3rd lap, he is putting seconds on the pack and there is an almost un recoverable gap he gets ahead of you.
Further more the AI cars in the back of the pack are stupid and slow and if you wait for appropriate times to pass without just brute forcing past, you can easily be laps into the race before you are ahead of the pack in which case we get back to not being able to catch a reasonably matched car with 10 seconds on you already.
So the very layout of the game almost forces you into an overpowered car because the only time you get a good race is when you have a car that is roughly evenly matched with the 1 fastest car in the race. However if you are matched with him, chances are you can't burn through the pack fast enough to catch him early and once he has put 10 seconds on your position, it's almost impossible to make up 10 seconds in an evenly matched card (at least it should be).
It's almost as if the game is built specifically to discourage racing with a well matched car.
The ability to take a Dodge Viper or Lexus LFA and make it AWD in Forza 3 killed the game for me. Why they decided to let that crap happen is ridiculous. Also what good is having leaderboards where 1 single car dominates it for the entire class?
I'm sorry, I liked Forza 2 a lot. But Forza 3 is just not in the same league as Forza 2 or GT5 when it comes to multiplayer. GT5's My Lounge feature is quite possibly the best thing for a racing game. Guys/girls can just hot lap together and goof around without worrying about some jerk wrecking them or finishing the race while everyone else is having fun.
I really do think that people are nit-picking GT5 because of their own expectations for the game. They were expecting a game with zero flaws which is just too much to ask for anything in life. So while GT5 may have some flaws, you have to remember that Forza 3 has them, Call of Duty has them, Killzone 2 has them, Socom has them, well I think you get the point. Every game has flaws.
I'm sorry, I liked Forza 2 a lot. But Forza 3 is just not in the same league as Forza 2 or GT5 when it comes to multiplayer. GT5's My Lounge feature is quite possibly the best thing for a racing game. Guys/girls can just hot lap together and goof around without worrying about some jerk wrecking them or finishing the race while everyone else is having fun.
I really do think that people are nit-picking GT5 because of their own expectations for the game. They were expecting a game with zero flaws which is just too much to ask for anything in life. So while GT5 may have some flaws, you have to remember that Forza 3 has them, Call of Duty has them, Killzone 2 has them, Socom has them, well I think you get the point. Every game has flaws.
- 4,323
Honestly I can say that the feel I enjoy from GT5 is as much from how they handle the camera as anything physics based.
Both games have great physics engines behind them, GT has exagerated camera movements and shake that really help impart a feeling of being in the car for me. The massive pitch forward under hard braking, the shake and vibration as you increase speed and hit small bumps in the road.
It's often been said FM feels like floating over the road rather than driving it and that is ofte attributed to the physics engine somehow, I feel it's very much due to the presentation.
Forza is too buttery smooth, GT tends to jerk the camera around really helping to make up for the lack of any real moment feedback for your body.
In many ways GT feels like a camera mounted to the helmet and Forza feelsl ike a camera mounted to a rigid pole attached to the seat brackets and maybe even dampened more than that.
I really feel if Forza jacked up the camera vibration and pitch and roll it would feel a LOT better. The physics and how they affect car control are of the utmost importance, but of equal importance is how those results are transferred to me... this is why I so long for the days a frex motion simulator is the norm for racing sim
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
I can invite people to a private race in Forza too.
GTs leaderboards are better though. My Forza leaderboards are filled with people like AJ the boy and Daveyskills, people who I don't know.
Atleast in GT I'm top of all leaderboards. Oh and bottom and middle too.
GTs leaderboards are better though. My Forza leaderboards are filled with people like AJ the boy and Daveyskills, people who I don't know.
Atleast in GT I'm top of all leaderboards. Oh and bottom and middle too.
- 13
- beavisofcod2
- beavisofcod2
Polyphony needs to learn the simple phrase "Keep It Simple Stupid". GT5 is a prime example of a studio not knowing what game they want to make, with a design philosophy too afraid to sacrifice anything that could drag the overall product down. The game is technically sound in some respects, but the overall product is amateurish.
Forza 3 is not as technically brilliant in a few respects, but the overall product is far more professional and easier for gamers to appreciate.
Forza 3 is not as technically brilliant in a few respects, but the overall product is far more professional and easier for gamers to appreciate.
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