What keeps this country in order, loyalty of some sort

  • Thread starter s0nny80y
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Originally posted by Seito4Counter
As to "collective might of a 3 yr old girl" well, the current abilities of the U.S. are so impressive. Not being able to supress guerilla actions in a DESERT! HA! so you stay in your opinion and neglect of Europe. Enjoy the next twenty years mate.

We aren't fighting on sand dunes, we are fighting in cities. The sand is barely an issue except for when their are storms or when traveling to some of the other cities. Do you know of the insurgents all plotting in the middle of the desert, so they'd be easy targets? It's also hot over there.
 
The U.S. did not turn Iraq into glass, well because of international implications (although i doubt rumsfeld and his cronies care about the humanitarian ramifications) but because that would annihalate Iraqi infastructure. Buildings and roads that companies like Haliburton need.

Your argument is getting messier and messier. Untangling your assumptions is getting tiresome. Right here you assume that the US cares about making money off of Iraq. If we did, why did we spend so freaking much to liberate it? The truth of the matter is that we care about Iraqi infrastructure for the sake of the Iraqis. The benefit that the US will get is a democracy in the middle of the most anti-US region out there.

Why is it the default position for you to claim that everything is the fault of the US? I don't quite know how you got your head twisted around that way, but it's irritating.
 
Originally posted by Seito4Counter
The U.S. did not turn Iraq into glass, well because of international implications (although i doubt rumsfeld and his cronies care about the humanitarian ramifications) but because that would annihalate Iraqi infastructure. Buildings and roads that companies like Haliburton need.

Also, you can combat guerillas while minimizing civilian casualties. It called intelligence and secret service activity. In the case of Iraq you have a population which does not take to being conquered. Iraqi culture is an ancient one and I am sure Iraqis are proud of their nationalism. I don't think they like a bunch of gringos running around putting Israeli agents into their government (Chalabi).

Now I state that because the most effective way to combat guerillas is to get the local population to do it for you. To do this you must have the locals acknowledge the fact that the guerillas do not help them. In Iraq I am sure no one likes guerillas running around shooting people but I am sure they would like their country back.

You look at this combat as something that requires brute force, and without using brute force there will be casualties.... a very gringo attitude. This is the problem with U.S. command and was in Vietnam as well. You don't send an army for this type of mission, because it cannot combat guerillas without massive civilian casualties.

So in that case the U.S. CANNOT effectively supress guerilla actions, since it would not dare nuke a country so blatently. Your countries sons and daughters are dying in vain... for some sort of Bush type to make more money. On top of that you have an idiot commander Sanchez.. that man should not be allowed to hold a rifle, much less command an army, division, company, or battalion.

If you really wanted to "liberate" Iraq from Saddam, you organize a coup. An example being communist Poland. The U.S. did not go toe to toe with the USSR, but organized a coup...(the pope helped alot in that). Now, I am sure that someone in the government realized this.. So why did the U.S. not follow that model? Because the intention of the U.S. was not to liberate the Iraqis and give them their own government. The intention was to create a puppet state in Iraq. Unfortunatly this has been tried before.. and if the U.S. withdraws there will be huge civil war resulting in a 3 way partition of Iraq. Kurds, Sunni, Shiite. So, as I doubt America will win an intellectual war in Iraq, as they are the aggressors, it will be a long long time in Iraq, or an accepted "tactical withdrawl" similar to the 1970's.

So to tie this all together, don't feed me crap like the U.S. could just obbliterate the world.. and turn Iraq into dust.. it won't and wouldn't happen. That is a very childish recourse. I suggest you grow up and face the world as it really is.

Is it at all possible to you that we didn't because we aren't that evil?

I thought Chalabi was a Pentagon Crony. Or is the Pentagon run by Zionists? Actually, I don't like Chalabi either. He looks like an opportunist to me. I think he wants more than he says.

I'm sure they would, though polls show two thirds (about) wanting the US to stay while security remains a problem.

I'm not sure that massive casualties are unavoidable, but i agree for the most part.

Why is he an idiot? Solely for not having more special forces in place of platoons? Attacks are down, some are nearly impossible to prevent, unless you believe we have super death ray that can track pigeons with malevolent motives, we are finding weapons caches constantly. You imply that the forces in place are completely ineffective. How? I agree smaler forces are better, but not that we are incapable of making sufficient progress with what's their. Besides, they're may be guerillas there for 30 years, even if America is rejected by Iraq.

A coup? Since we need to live in the real world, as you say, let's consider something. A coup highly limits one's influence over the formation of the government which takes over. Other than the risk we put in place vengeful Shi'ites, is the risk of having a government we may regret being there having our arms, or at least our money. And equipping the resistance would surely be difficult. At what point do we fly in if their coup is ineffective? Please explain the similarities between Poland and Iraq, also. I understand anti-war and profiteering beliefs, but why, if death is such an issue, are suggestions that pit weakened people against the military of their dictators so much more appropriate?
 
Sigh.. this thread has gotten far off topic.. I presume that the U.S. went into Iraq with some idea of how it could potentially pay off because otherwise we wouldn't have gone. Do you get that? Countries don't do favors.. If it was some grand campaign of liberation then why did we arm Saddam, and why didn't we take him out earlier? .. doesn't add up.. People do things because of motive, not just out of the blue..

Also.. Since this thread has gotten so off topic.. I think im done.

(Chalabi) is a mossad agent.

The idea of the coup is to turn the military against the dictator. thats why i used poland as an example.
 
And, though you may hate this, I'll be very straight. Yes, yes we do want a pro American government. And that won't happen with luck. If we simply let every government form as it would from a coup, we could have dozens against us, whether or not we did anything bad after supporting their liberations. We should be more upfront. "If you form into an enemy, you will regret it."
 
Well, thanks for the clarification. Of course, if the military is corrupt too, what does that leave us? A 50/50 chance that we get a guy who'd rather appease us. Or a years of power struggles. But, no plan is perfect. I thought we armed Saddam to Fight Iran.

He is? Your proof?
 
Proof? We don't need no stinkin' proof! Cynical suspiscion is all we need.

America is the most successful country on the face of the planet. Therefore America must be made of unethical, opportunistic robber barons who control the government and invade other countries at will in order to steal their resources. Q. E. D.
 
Sigh.. this thread has gotten far off topic.. I presume that the U.S. went into Iraq with some idea of how it could potentially pay off because otherwise we wouldn't have gone. Do you get that? Countries don't do favors.. If it was some grand campaign of liberation then why did we arm Saddam, and why didn't we take him out earlier? .. doesn't add up.. People do things because of motive, not just out of the blue..

The benefit that the US will get is a democracy in the middle of the most anti-US region out there.
 
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