What should I be?

[NissanSkylineN1]

I think by "relatively safe career field," he meant least likely to lose your job, not least likely to lose your life.

That's exactly what I meant.

 

[W3H5]

Famine's pearls of wisdom never cease to make me smile.

My father told me when I was young that I could join the family business of submarine washing. Turns out he lied.

 

[Villain]

That's exactly what I meant.

That job doesn't exist. Become a CEO and you're the first one to get canned when the company starts doing poorly. Start your own business and if it doesn't take off then you're in massive debt. Become a doctor and prescribe the wrong pills and you're sued and out of a license. Become a day trader or work for a hedge fund and then once the market goes sour you lose all of your money. The list goes on.

Famine is right.

Would you rather make more money, or have more stability?

 

[Kylehnat]

I like solving problems and technology, that's why I was considering engineering.

4) I don't like the sciences whatsoever.

These two comments are direct contradictions. Where do you think "technology" comes from? Engineering is science. It's like saying "I hate running, but I want to win a marathon".

I've seen a few comments repeated over and over in this thread. We all come from varying backgrounds and walks-of-life...yet we all come to same conclusions, which must mean that there is some merit to them...

1)Money doesn't matter. If you hate your job, it doesn't matter how much they're paying you--you'll still be miserable. I was in this situation a few years ago--I almost resented the paycheck, and it was of no comfort whatsoever. Furthermore, when you're at work, you don't get to sit around and count your piles of money. You have a job to do, and you have to do it for at least 2,000 hours each year. You'd better enjoy it at least a little bit. You also better have an aptitude for it, because if you don't, your employer will get rid of you in favor of someone who does.

2)At a rudimentary level, the salary for a job is based on what proportion of the population is qualified/capable of doing that job. McDonald's pays their fry-cooks $9/hour (where I live, anyway) because anybody in the world can learn how to properly dip French fries in the deep-fryer. That same person is not capable of designing a suspension bridge or performing open-heart surgery...unless that person graduates high-school, goes to university for several years, and then works in that field for several more. The fields that generally pay well are difficult to train in, and just as difficult to survive in. My job in engineering is ten-times more difficult than the university courses I had to take, which were ten-times more difficult than the high-school courses I took, which were ten-times more difficult than putting a hamburger under a heat-lamp. If I don't do it right, the stuff I design/modify could catch on fire, explode, or send a toxic gas cloud into the nearest town. Someone could easily be killed by my mistakes or negligence. I get paid accordingly. Even so, if I make a mistake that leads to someone losing their life, I will be racked with guilt for the rest of my days. No amount of money will negate that.

Computer programmers are in incredible demand right now. My dad works for a software company, and is desperate to hire people.I'm not sure that they'll get paid 6 figures, but some companies will. My friend's older brother landed a job at Microsoft, with a starting salary of 106 grand.

After he buys a house in Redmond, WA, the rest of that $106,000 won't go very far...unless he doubles it by marrying a gal that works there, too. Microsoft is also notorious for expecting their employees to work 70-80 hours per week for that kind of money. The Devil is in the details, as they say

 

[niky]

The only doctoring profession I can think of where it's actually easy to keep from killing your patients is "dermatologist". And then you misdiagnose a carcinoma as a wart and you're in a million dollar malpractice suit...

And if you want to be a doctor who really makes money, you're looking at surgery or even neurosurgery, which carry some of the highest risks of killing anyone, anywhere.

Being a doctor is tough 🤬. And with that outlook on science and no real passion, you're not going to make it past second year, much less internship.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

I think I should have been more clear about this science thing.

I do like science, its cool and stuff, and I do well in it, but in terms of school, studying for it is dreadful. I do well in school in science, got a 98% last year, and now getting a 91% in Chem. I have physics next semester, so I have no idea how it is. But the studying and learning is so dreadful. The reason being is that I much rather prefer applying my knowledge and thinking, rather than memorizing a lot of info. And its because of this that I think I should avoid it, because as it gets harder and harder in university, there won't really be much of a studying drive for it.

In terms of risk, I'll take any risk in terms of the job description wise. The risk I'm worried about is losing my job because the career field I chose was crap.

1)Money doesn't matter. If you hate your job, it doesn't matter how much they're paying you--you'll still be miserable. I was in this situation a few years ago--I almost resented the paycheck, and it was of no comfort whatsoever. Furthermore, when you're at work, you don't get to sit around and count your piles of money. You have a job to do, and you have to do it for at least 2,000 hours each year. You'd better enjoy it at least a little bit. You also better have an aptitude for it, because if you don't, your employer will get rid of you in favor of someone who does.

Hopefully at the councellor's office this morning, we'll find something I'll find quite interesting.

 

[slims]

I don't like the sciences whatsoever.

I do like science, its cool and stuff

 

[TyrrellRacing]

But the studying and learning is so dreadful. The reason being is that I much rather prefer applying my knowledge and thinking, rather than memorizing a lot of info. And its because of this that I think I should avoid it, because as it gets harder and harder in university, there won't really be much of a studying drive for it.

Science is all about applying knowledge and logic. Maybe not Biology, but Physics definitely. Of course if you've got no "studying drive" for it then don't bother because you won't get very far.

 

[daan]

But the studying and learning is so dreadful. The reason being is that I much rather prefer applying my knowledge and thinking, rather than memorizing a lot of info. And its because of this that I think I should avoid it, because as it gets harder and harder in university, there won't really be much of a studying drive for it.

If you don't study and if you don't learn, you won't get many good qualifications and then you have no hope of getting a good job.

 

[Driving Park]

I was considering majoring in some sort of civil engineering or architectural design when I was in high school, because designing city street plans and houses is a hobby of mine that I enjoy. Sounds much the same as the fields you are "interested in." However, in the back of my head I knew that I only wanted to go into those fields because in addition to being something I liked and enjoyed, it is a well-paying career. Again, seems very similar to what you're thinking right now. Then I had some sense knocked into me by my friends (not parents, who wanted that well-paying career), and I enrolled in one of the country's top music schools as a music performance major.

Talk about one of the most unstable career fields out there. Very few professional musicians make big bucks, and they are in the country's major orchestras and opera houses, many of which are getting severe pay cuts, going on strike, and getting locked out these days. And the ones that don't make big bucks? Except for those in the military bands (who absolutely do not make six figures, at least for a long time), they have to worry about whether or not they'll have gotten paid enough from their three gigs that week to eat every night. Sounds dramatic, but that's how it is.

So why did I forgo the relatively MUCH more stable, much more well-paying career path? Because that was just an interest, and music is my passion. As much as we all would like the luxuries and the big bucks - I wanted to be a doctor when I was young exclusively because of the money, so I am no different than you or anyone else - if you don't enjoy what you do for a living, you will be miserable. You'll get up every morning, spend all day working a job you hate, and come home. You'll have a family, see them off to college, retire, hang around for a few years, and then die. No amount of money will be able to make that a more fulfilling life. Sure, in your off hours you can do as many memorable things as you want, but the fact remains that most of your life will be doing something that makes you miserable. However, if you do something you love for a living - something you're passionate about - you will look forward to every day you go to work and it will enrich your life, and in the end you will be much happier and live a more fulfilling life. Watch that "what if money was no object" video on the first page of the thread.

Halfway through the thread you're now interested in science, great. You like technology/engineering, great. That's a start. But you need to find something you are passionate about. What do you love? What makes you tick? Once you've figured that out, you may be able to apply it to a career field that still makes good money, but maybe not. As Famine said, you can be safe or you can be six-figure successful, but not both.

Now that I'm off my soap box (had to get that off my chest), I can at least comments on some careers.

Engineering is in high demand, but nearly every single person in all three of the high school graduating classes before mine, as well as mine, went into engineering. If it's the same story around the world (and I don't know if it is), by the time you've finished your engineering training, there will be so many prospective engineers saturating the nation it will be hard to find a job.

All things computers are in high demand right now. IT, programming, computer science, and so on. I'd imagine you'd be able to land a job somewhere easily, but making big bucks would be more difficult. That would be an example of the "safe" route.

Undertaker is a great suggestion.

Doctors - see what everyone else said. Good pay, but imagine you're performing surgery on someone. If you even have slightly shaky hands because you're nervous that you'll mess it up and make the patient's condition much worse, you'll mess it up and make the patient's condition much worse.

Best of luck in your search.

 

[avens]

If you want to earn more than average you have to work harder than average, all your life and since the very beginning.
"Average" isn't easy by any means btw. Everyone works their asses off, sooner or later.

There's plenty of info on what professions are more profitable than others, whether common knowledge or actual data, and if you are good at something there will always be a place to work.

edit: safest picks are engineering (as broad as that term is. It's the same as saying "lawyer") and medicine. Those 3 professions share the fact there will always be work for them as they deal with human nature problems that actually increase in times of crisis.
Now, if I were to pick one I'd go for "engineering" or something with the word business on the description as those 2 will get you plenty of alternatives to specialize afterwards (collect degrees, have more options), but then again no career is easy even less so the ones that pay well.

 

[Omnis]

The problem with medicine is that there will always be work, but there's not always pay. You can expect to be paid for only 30% of the work that you do, if that. Thanks, Third-Party Payer system, thanks EMTALA, thanks Gov't.

 

[Exorcet]

Start your own business and if it doesn't take off then you're in massive debt.

For this one, I just want to say "depends". If you borrow enough money to complete with GM, because you think you can be the next GM, then yes, debt. If you're realistic and cautious, you might just end up breaking even.

It will also look good to investors if you can showed that you learned something from failing. You've got something like a 3/10 chance of being a successful start up. Investors know this ahead of time.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

The problem with medicine is that there will always be work, but there's not always pay. You can expect to be paid for only 30% of the work that you do, if that. Thanks, Third-Party Payer system, thanks EMTALA, thanks Gov't.

Here in Canada, the government fully pays you.

Science is all about applying knowledge and logic. Maybe not Biology, but Physics definitely. Of course if you've got no "studying drive" for it then don't bother because you won't get very far.

I have physics next semester. Who knows, maybe I'll love it.


Thanks for the advice there. In terms of finding what I'm passionate about, my counsellor told me to go and do some sort of job shadowing, or interviewing people. Since I've got doctors, engineers and lawyers in my family and friends, I'll go about having an interview/asking them how their career is like. I think that this is a good way of finding a passion.

Science is all about applying knowledge and logic. Maybe not Biology, but Physics definitely. Of course if you've got no "studying drive" for it then don't bother because you won't get very far.

Who knows, maybe the teacher could be the reason for the lack of interest. My counsellor told me that its not the classes that you take that you should be basing what you want to be, but the actual job itself, and that the end job is much different than it is in class, as some have said earlier. So I think I should go get some first-hand information and experience about careers.

If you don't study and if you don't learn, you won't get many good qualifications and then you have no hope of getting a good job.

That's exactly why I'm not comfortable with the sciences, especially biology.

The counsellor said to keep my doors open, and that its normal for people my age to be in the same situation. In terms of courses, I have the doors to business, some life sciences and engineering open. (Law is only masters).

I have a question though. Whats the difference between enjoying something and having a passion for something?

 

[McLaren]

Adult film, if you can stand the practical biology involved.

If he was a girl, it'd be perfect. It's the one profession where men get the shaft more than the women though.

@ Pupik: Good insight. I don't expect to be wealthy as soon as I come out of university, but I also don't want ot be making less than $60K a year. I'm not expecting to be one of those "overnight sucess" stories, but I also want to have some sort of a luxurious life. I really like the private sector idea. What about being self-employed/ opening up a firm/business/office?

As for tuition, its pretty cheap here, $8-10k per year for undergrad, and scholarships are pretty generous (especially with high marks in the 90s%). You don't need student loans until after a bachelor's.

I do have interest in Business, and a BA is apparently quite useful to have. As for law, there isn't an undergrad for it, so taking a BA should be ok IMO.

Then you better study, study, study. My niece graduated from OSU this year with her MBA and landed a job here in Dallas starting her at $50-55K a year starting.

Even at near the top her class, she still didn't land the starting salary you want & she had a close to perfect GPA and her last 3.5 years paid for by scholarship. Everyone else above her either graduated in medicine or science meaning she was one of the "smartest" people to graduate her class with a career in business. And even then, she got incredibly lucky because her work had already wanted to hire her months she graduated as long as she remained at where she is once they saw her potential.

Not everyone will be anywhere as lucky as she is or manage the same GPA she finished with. Had she not even been given that job, she would have continued on with her schooling & still would like to.

What you want does not happen to probably 98% of college graduates because you are not guaranteed it, let alone a job at all after college.

The universities say that $60K is something to expect as a starting pay, sometimes they even say $80K. I'm not looking to get 6 figures quickly, but I don't want to finally achieve that when I'm 50.

Are they biased/made to look better than they really are?

I'm going to go to counselling and get an appointment with them too today, see what I can do. Thank you all for helping me out so far!

There's the key word; "expect". Just because you graduate college does not mean you'll make that. If you did, that means there would be a gigantic amount of $60-80K jobs open every May when kids graduate & they expect to start working at those salaries. It just doesn't happen because the work isn't there to supply all of them. The sad truth is a lot of these college kids return to your everyday jobs whilst they search & apply for those positions they went to school for.

Air Traffic controller. No degree needed and only 4 or more A levels and they don't need to be in Science (although it does help) and then you have to apply to a union and do a series of tests which include reaction times, HEC and many more. After 5 years, you can work at whatever airport you want, (even overseas) and the the final step is Profit.

Any job that pays very well & asks for no degree will always have catch. ATC is incredibly stressful & very demanding; it's a 24/7 job and a lot of people don't make it through the training.

But, as with anything, if you stick with it, it does become easier. It's just a very tough hurdle to jump & make a career out of in the beginning.

 

[Pupik]

Any job that pays very well & asks for no degree will always have catch. ATC is incredibly stressful & very demanding; it's a 24/7 job and a lot of people don't make it through the training.

Actually, ATC usually has an upper age limit as a condition of hiring! Last I heard, if you're over 30, tough luck. I've heard time and time again that its the one job that pays tremendously with no college education; but the training takes a while, and if you screw up, it's not a mistake...it's an event. Perhaps some people are just fascinated with aviation and there's probably a massive feeling of success in making a major airport run smoothly; on the other hand, it's just probably just another day of "mundane" tasks to someone experienced enough, while the rest of us are amazed (or completely unaware) at how all these flying fuel cells with passengers and cargo attached don't plow into stuff, but go to the right places and make all the right moves.

 

[Omnis]

Here in Canada, the government fully pays you.

To treat the collective.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

As for tuition, its pretty cheap here, $8-10k per year for undergrad, and scholarships are pretty generous (especially with high marks in the 90s%). You don't need student loans until after a bachelor's.

You're walking a fine line if you're expecting scholarships, especially to cover all your tuition. You'll have to be at, or very near, the top of your class to be considered for that much. And I can't stress this enough; while it's easy to cruise along in Canadian high schools with averages in the 90's, with minimal studying, you'll be hit hard trying to approach university the same way. I'm not saying that's your style, since I don't know, but generally, it's much, much harder to achieve those sorts of marks in university. College, on the other hand...

Also, that's not taking into account books, living arrangements, and food. My first year at York when I was an undergrad cost me about 15k, and only half that was tuition (this was 7 years ago, though). I suppose it could've been higher if I were the type to take a reading week vacation, or taken something other than the absolute cheapest on-campus housing.

It's been said a few times, and I'll agree; do what you like to do. I started in Computer Sciences, but absolutely hated how dry it was, and missed having a creative outlet. Graphic Design pays less on average (though has quite a high ceiling, if you're lucky), but I'm far happier doing it.

Also, sort of tying into what Shem said earlier; don't feel like you have to know what you want to do. Looking back, that was one of the worst things my high school counsellor could've told me, and from talking with friends, it seems they all do that. You shouldn't be expected to know the future direction of your life at 16/17, and it's unfortunate they push this on students.

 

[Grayfox]

Race car driver
Steam shovel
Fireman

In the end it is up to you and we can't change your mind.

 

[niky]

Also, that's not taking into account books, living arrangements, and food. My first year at York when I was an undergrad cost me about 15k, and only half that was tuition (this was 7 years ago, though). I suppose it could've been higher if I were the type to take a reading week vacation, or taken something other than the absolute cheapest on-campus housing.

My Mom studied at Puget Sound, she had a Federal Scholarship, an Academic Scholarship and another one from a Foundation, and she still had to work odd jobs to get by.

I'm lucky. Education here in the Philippines doesn't cost near as much.

 

[Kylehnat]

There's the key word; "expect". Just because you graduate college does not mean you'll make that. If you did, that means there would be a gigantic amount of $60-80K jobs open every May when kids graduate & they expect to start working at those salaries. It just doesn't happen because the work isn't there to supply all of them. The sad truth is a lot of these college kids return to your everyday jobs whilst they search & apply for those positions they went to school for.

Yep...happened to me! At graduation, about half of my chemical engineering classmates had jobs lined up, and half of us didn't. That was in 2006, when the economy was relatively-stable and optimistic. Later that summer, I ended up taking a non-engineering job, and earned about half of what a typical starting ChemE would earn. I had to pay the bills somehow... About a year later, I did land an engineering job, with the "expected" salary. The next 18 months of my life were a miserable hell. Those two experiences, for me, put things into perspective a bit. What looks best on paper doesn't always turn out that way.

 

[Crash]

There seems to be a common thread that whatever you choose, you have to love what you're doing, and that money isn't everything. I would have to agree with that. Even if a job pays well, it is absolutely miserable if you dread going to work, and you are just depressed and spent from how much you hate your job.

I was going to go into law, but got scared away at how miserable lawyers are and also how hard it is to land a proper law job after university.

I was also considering Engineering, but apparently landing a job there is hard too.

Right now, it is tough to find a job after law school unless you are at the very top of the class, just because of the sheer number of law school graduates there are out there. There are in fact many articles written about this.

Engineering in the US at least (not 100% sure about Canada) is still in high demand. Companies are creating more engineering jobs than universities are graduating each year. In the near future, as long as you are qualified, didn't screw up in school and you actually tried to get a job, I don't see finding an engineering job that difficult.

I have physics next semester. I'll see if I like it then.

I have an idea:

Since a BA is kind of a "universal" certification, should I just get a BA and then see what I can do after that? I mean, there's a lot of opportunities open with a BA, and as I'll get older and learn more, I probably will get an idea of what I enjoy. Maybe my views will change on a career in law, and I could go to law school.

BA is just a bachelor of arts. If you graduate with a science degree or certain humanities degrees, you'll get a BS, or bachelor of science. You university education is your stepping stone into the world with jobs and what not. Many of the people I know who just got a BA then tried to figure out what to do ended up either working retail/customer service, menial jobs or not employed at all. If you figure out what you want to do and work hard towards that goal, you'll have a leg up when you graduate and you are looking for a job.

I do have interest in Business, and a BA is apparently quite useful to have. As for law, there isn't an undergrad for it, so taking a BA should be ok IMO.

From my experience, a BA in business isn't really that useful, unless you are going into something like accounting or finance (ie. math heavy). Business is about learning by doing; you can only take so many classes on it. I know one of the classes that business school kids had to take was entrepreneurship. Granted, they'll teach you some strategies to enable success and pitfalls to watch out for, but in reality, if you truly want to learn entrepreneurship, I believe that no class can teach it to you, you have to go out, start a business, and try it yourself.

Also, not all BAs are equal, especially if you are thinking about law school. To get a law degree, you want to have a undergraduate degree that either is somehow relevant or gives you skills that a typical lawyer does not have. Often, law degree students have an undergrad in political science, history, economics, or even physics and engineering. But you'll be hard pressed to get into good law school with an art history degree, even if you did well.

$60,000 was about average starting salary for B.S. engineers according to my school's statistics, so I don't think it's that unrealistic.

Not unrealistic at all. I know several B.S. engineers with starting salaries right out of school to be above $60,000.

After he buys a house in Redmond, WA, the rest of that $106,000 won't go very far...unless he doubles it by marrying a gal that works there, too. Microsoft is also notorious for expecting their employees to work 70-80 hours per week for that kind of money. The Devil is in the details, as they say

That's often the trade off. If one wants to get paid well, one is often expected to work long hours.

Many software companies do this. They'll offer you $80k+ salary starting, but you'll be working 60+ hours each week.

But the studying and learning is so dreadful. The reason being is that I much rather prefer applying my knowledge and thinking, rather than memorizing a lot of info. And its because of this that I think I should avoid it, because as it gets harder and harder in university, there won't really be much of a studying drive for it.

Much of the memorizing that you talk about is needed to build a foundation and an understanding of how and why different things act the way they do, or why various science theories or laws are the way they are. You will eventually get the chance to apply what you've learned, but if you don't memorize and understand all the science information at the beginning, how can you apply them later?

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

And I can't stress this enough; while it's easy to cruise along in Canadian high schools with averages in the 90's, with minimal studying, you'll be hit hard trying to approach university the same way.

Yes, I've heard many people who had 90%s and actually ended up dropping out of uni. High School is a joke compared to Uni.

Also, sort of tying into what Shem said earlier; don't feel like you have to know what you want to do. Looking back, that was one of the worst things my high school counsellor could've told me, and from talking with friends, it seems they all do that. You shouldn't be expected to know the future direction of your life at 16/17, and it's unfortunate they push this on students.

So would you reccomend me still taking a variety of courses before narrowing it down? Probably until 1st year Uni?

BA is just a bachelor of arts.

Did I type BA? Oops, I meant BBA. Let me go and fix that. I'm looking at a BBA or a BCom for business.

Much of the memorizing that you talk about is needed to build a foundation and an understanding of how and why different things act the way they do, or why various science theories or laws are the way they are. You will eventually get the chance to apply what you've learned, but if you don't memorize and understand all the science information at the beginning, how can you apply them later?

So are you saying that the applying side of the Sciences will come in the higher grades of education?

 

[Crash]

So are you saying that the applying side of the Sciences will come in the higher grades of education?

Simplified, if you go into engineering (which is really applied sciences), then yes. You will start out learning, knowing and thoroughly understanding various scientific principals, relationships, laws, theories, etc. As you progress into higher level, you will have more and more chances to apply what you have learned, whether in extracurriculars or as labs or group projects. When you graduate and get a job that is not in research, you will be applying what you have learned for the rest of your life.

 

[Exorcet]

So are you saying that the applying side of the Sciences will come in the higher grades of education?

The reason for all the memorization, and the point behind a basic degree like a BS, is basically to make sure that know at least the minimum that you need to know to do your job. A chemist can't spend all day looking up the periodic table, or work will never get done. There are just some things you absolutely have to know.

If you don't want to wait and want to try applying what you know, you should look for specific activities outside of school. When I was in high school, there was something called the ACE program that grouped high school students with professional engineers and basically had everyone work together doing realistic projects. Mine was adding a runway to LGA airport (trivia fact, I think we also proposed the most expensive project in ACE's history, some few billion dollars, and got some laughs from the other teams when we revealed this fact).

 

[Small_Fryz]

My only serious bit of advice.

Do something you love, and be dedicated to it, don't be afraid to take some educated risks and just give it a shot. Nothing comes to those who sit around and you have to go out and get it. You can't expect to get it straight away and you must view things as a staircase.. every step counts and you need to take a few steps before you get your goal.

I'm a salesman an I've managed to do quite well for myself (Earn over 6 figures if you also count the rental income from my house) and all I've done is my best and worked hard.

I have nothing extra to add that hasn't already been said and I doubt you will even listen to my opinion but just in case... I'd thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

Forget the money, instead focus on what you love and what you can give 110%. Give 110% at what you love and you will have the chance to earn the money you want.

 

[kikie]

Living of welfare is the best choice.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

I doubt you will even listen to my opinion but just in case...

FYI, I'm considering everyone's opinion on this thread... I don't know why you are under the impression that I'm ignoring other's opinions...