Whats up with this new penalty system its absolutely ridiculous

[Robben]

SS here (not the Hitler ones). Explain why I deserved penalties for any of the clips in this video I posted earlier

Irrespective of whether you lost time going off track or hitting walls, the game can only tell that you were driving off track which it perceives as corner cutting.

 

[JacksHerer]

It seems harsh that going off track without any intention to reduce the track length, incurs a time penalty. It should incur a few DR points drop.

The system has been in place long enough for people to leave space according to their and their opponents perceived abilities. Nurburg24hr isn't the best place to be racing under this current penalty system, as you don't have any laps to patiently gauge your opponents and plan your pass.

I don't know how old these videos are, but I hope humanity is able to evolve to racing within their limits and not expecting cars to disappear or ghost out of 'their faster line/pace'. It's disappointing to still be seeing videos of several cars plowing into a braking zone with only their hotlap in mind.

 

[shaunus]

SS here (not the Hitler ones). Explain why I deserved penalties for any of the clips in this video I posted earlier

Not watching all of that, not after the first few where the incident isnt even in the video, dont see much point in watching you tell us what happened. The one where you cut across the front of the guy into the wall was a pretty obvious penalty, and the game just saw the next one as a huge corner cut. I assume the rest is much the same?

 

[Mirror_man]

This would go so well.. if Sport Mode would have two different modes!!!!!...

One for dirty racing called "GTS Dirty Sport Mode" ... with the current Penalization System!! And the other one.. "GTS Clean & Real Sport Mode"... with the correct penalization system... (in a distant future maybe )... It would be so cool!! Like in Heaven!!

And finally the Beasts that play GTS could be able to free, to it´s fullest, their potential and actually be champions and win on it!

And those who like to play a simulator that has much more to do with real racing, would have then a nice racing simulator game to play!

 

[kjeldsen]

SS here (not the Hitler ones). Explain why I deserved penalties for any of the clips in this video I posted earlier

So first of all, i like your aggressive all attack driving style but it certainly has some risks, and they penalty system is not afraid to let you know
Most of those penalties are deserved, i think it is debatable how big they should be and how much higher they should be compared to other ranks. For example i prefer car contact to be punished harder than you hitting a wall(?). The thing with the wall contact is that with car damage you would not leave the grass again, and maybe they are trying to punish people hard instead of stopping their race. But for example getting on the grass all alone and getting punished seems pretty costly but if we consider that the game is trying to make sure you stay on track since you could have been passing another car or cutting the track it makes more sense..

 

[super_gt]

I think what we’re seeing is an iRacing style penalty system in terms of severity, but without a very important part of iRacing: heavy, realistic damage.

Add to this and more realistic collision physics,but the excuse is always accessibility.

 

[JulesDennis]

So first of all, i like your aggressive all attack driving style but it certainly has some risks, and they penalty system is not afraid to let you know
Most of those penalties are deserved, i think it is debatable how big they should be and how much higher they should be compared to other ranks. For example i prefer car contact to be punished harder than you hitting a wall(?). The thing with the wall contact is that with car damage you would not leave the grass again, and maybe they are trying to punish people hard instead of stopping their race. But for example getting on the grass all alone and getting punished seems pretty costly but if we consider that the game is trying to make sure you stay on track since you could have been passing another car or cutting the track it makes more sense..

Add to this and more realistic collision physics,but the excuse is always accessibility.

100% agree with these.

 

[Matty28]

Irrespective of whether you lost time going off track or hitting walls, the game can only tell that you were driving off track which it perceives as corner cutting.

So I thought this was you agreeing with me but then you've liked the other comments disagreeing with me. What you've done there is told me "the system is broken, and that's that, nevermind how it is giving you penalties for no reason".

It seems harsh that going off track without any intention to reduce the track length, incurs a time penalty. It should incur a few DR points drop.

Yeah, it turns fair punishment of losing the time you lost into some overlord giving you a randomly generated penalty despite not gaining any advantage or doing anything unsporting. A DR drop would make way more sense.

Nurburg24hr isn't the best place to be racing under this current penalty system, as you don't have any laps to patiently gauge your opponents and plan your pass.

I don't really need to patiently gauge them, I just need an opportunity. When you are racing fast people there are no easy opportunities so you pretty much can't risk racing because any touch and you'll lose several places. Also can't push to the limit because any slight corner cut = 8s penalty and it's race over.

I don't know how old these videos are, but I hope humanity is able to evolve to racing within their limits and not expecting cars to disappear or ghost out of 'their faster line/pace'. It's disappointing to still be seeing videos of several cars plowing into a braking zone with only their hotlap in mind.

My clips were all recorded in a few days early this week/late last week. I've noticed the bad drivers continue to drive badly while the good drivers are not racing at all. I keep getting let past and I let people past to avoid penalty. So much fun!

Not watching all of that, not after the first few where the incident isnt even in the video, dont see much point in watching you tell us what happened. The one where you cut across the front of the guy into the wall was a pretty obvious penalty, and the game just saw the next one as a huge corner cut. I assume the rest is much the same?

You probably have watched it and just can't justify them or are too afraid to. A grand total of three of them I only started recording after it happened. There's clear explanations in the video so you know what happened. Why the hell are you asking me to tell you what the rest is like? Watch the clips.

Do you want to let me know why that one was a pretty obvious penalty? I would have got 5 seconds if I had ploughed straight into the back of him and taken the position off him (and so would he), but I get 9 seconds for doing everything I can to avoid him and not gain any time from it. The game is encouraging me to crash into people. This is neither unsporting conduct nor gaining an unfair advantage.

Yes you're right two after that the game saw me losing several seconds as a corner cut because the penalty system is broken!

If you're that lazy then just attempt to justify 2:57 and 3:19. Recognise how that ruins every race! You cannot go anywhere near another car without high risk of penalties. You cannot even follow them safely because they randomly stop in the middle of corners to deal with penalties or spin out and you get penalties from that. Me and Stefounzy had a great, clean battle and came out of it with a total of 9 seconds of penalties. You cannot race! You can only go on a timid follow the leader Sunday drive.

So first of all, i like your aggressive all attack driving style but it certainly has some risks, and they penalty system is not afraid to let you know

Thanks, and yeah it does come with small risks. Occassionally there are nudges or brushes or taps or whatever but no one wants to be given 5 second penalties for this. Not me nor the guy I'm racing with. Actual incidents which are my fault are always minor - I never completely wipe people out. I'm not trying to be big headed but when you are at or near the top level you can do risky looking things without big consequences because you minimise incidents so well and so does the guy you're racing with. It's always going to be rough around the edges but we are being penalised as if it is trolling.

Most of those penalties are deserved, i think it is debatable how big they should be and how much higher they should be compared to other ranks. For example i prefer car contact to be punished harder than you hitting a wall(?)

Could you be more specific as to which ones are deserved and why?

The thing with the wall contact is that with car damage you would not leave the grass again, and maybe they are trying to punish people hard instead of stopping their race.

But the game has a damage system. When you hit the wall hard you get engine damage and you lose loads of time because your car starts chugging along at 40mph until it fixes itself. That's a fair system because it seems to be pretty consistent and it's just what happens when you crash. It's a natural punishment, like losing time because you spin out. Applying a penalty that can vary from 5 seconds to 18 seconds at random is an irritating, inconsistent, unfair overlord micromanaging the game and completely not what penalties are for.

But for example getting on the grass all alone and getting punished seems pretty costly but if we consider that the game is trying to make sure you stay on track since you could have been passing another car or cutting the track it makes more sense..

You can't make people stay on track that stringently though without ruining the racing. It might encourage people who drive way above their skill level to be more careful but in AS/SS lobbies it means someone goes a bit wide allowing you to catch up, you think "great I've got a chance here... so exciting!" and then they stop because of a penalty and it's race over and you're left frustrated and bored. It takes a natural, fair time loss which influences the race well and turns it into an arbitrary penalty that ends your race.

There are two justifications for a penalty - 1) gaining an unfair advantage, 2) unsporting conduct against another player. None of these clips contain either of these.
With that in mind, I will go through each clip and explain why they don't require a penalty.
0:03 - losing 10 seconds of time crashing meets neither of those definitions. On top of that, 18 seconds is a completely ridiculous and race ending amount of penalty.
0:16 - Going off and losing half a second meets neither of those definitions, and it includes a natural, fair penalty for going off.
0:34 - same again. As you can see it seems to be exponential - the more time you lose, the more penalty you get which is idiotic.
0:48 - so I outbraked myself and if I didn't get a penalty I'd not have lost any time relative to giamp. A 1s penalty might be justified on that basis. However the corner cut did not gain time, I did not hit anyone, and the only reason for the corner cut was to not hit another driver. The game gives a higher penalty for a corner cut that gains no time compared to hitting another driver hard.
1:34 - It was a mirror image of the clip that comes afterwards, losing time is not gaining an unfair advantage. The game cannot distinguish between blasting straight across the chicane at full speed and outbraking yourself.
2:24 - ridiculous again, you can literally see the guy get past me because of my mistake. That is the natural punishment and a fun part of racing. The penalty that came afterwards ended our battle for no reason.
2:38 - same again, you can literally see the guy fly past me because I've lost like 2 seconds.
2:57 - I am ahead and have the inside, the guy turns into my rear quarter. If anyone should get a penalty it's him, but since it was such a light tap neither of us should have got a penalty.
3:19 - a great move by Stefounzy which the game penalised me for because of such a light brush you can hardly notice it. No one is at fault, no one crashed, nothing happened yet we're penalised for it.
3:31 - I get punted off. Need I say any more.
3:44 - The cone knocks 20mph off my speed. I have no time to react, neither does Stefounzy. 3 of us get penalties for it and lose several places. Ridiculous.
4:16 - the guy suddenly loses it and despite my best efforts I couldn't avoid a slight nudge. Absolutely no advantage gained and no unsporting conduct yet penalty.
4:33 - you can see me coasting into the corner because I actually have no intention of overtaking the guy even though he's way slower purely out of fear of penalties, but he virtually stops in the middle of a corner (maybe because of a penalty). No unsporting conduct, no unfair advantage.
4:53 - another racing incident with no unfair advantages nor unsporting conduct. I brake a tiny bit late so end up a tiny bit slow at the apex and get a bump from behind. No need for the penalties.
7:18 - this cannot even be interpreted as a corner cut or crash or anything, it's me having a tank slapper and that's worthy of penalties now apparently. Ridiculous.

I don't need to go into the clips showing the inconsistency, you can see for yourself how ridiculous it is - flipping a coin whether you get an 18 second penalty or nothing for cutting or crashing.
I also don't need to go into the ones about people getting in the way - but this is happening every lap of every race and it makes races frustrating and ruins races too.
Think of how this affects racing - I am not racing, I am waiting for people to get penalties. That is not fun. That is not exciting on the limit racing. People are letting me past. That is unsatisfying.

 

[Robben]

So I thought this was you agreeing with me but then you've liked the other comments disagreeing with me. What you've done there is told me "the system is broken, and that's that, nevermind how it is giving you penalties for no reason".

I think the penalties are harsh, but they will encourage you to try harder to stay on track in future... which is for everyone's good.

 

[Alfabob46]

Matty28

You missed 4.28 guy goes off trying to dodge you stopping on the racing line at a very fast section of the ring

But yes the penalty system is messed up for sure.
Its is like they are trying to force people to drive well within themselves and never go off track.
I can live with most of it as if I go off its my fault but the one penalty that drives me mad is when you get tapped from behind and get a penalty or when you get punted by someone that has missed the braking zone going 50+km faster and get a penalty 🤬🤬

 

[kjeldsen]

There are two justifications for a penalty - 1) gaining an unfair advantage, 2) unsporting conduct against another player. None of these clips contain either of these.

The penalties are also there to keep people honest, which in games are usually very important or people will cheat, push you and in general be annoying pricks. And in the game they (for me at least) work mostly as intended.

 

[Mirror_man]

So I thought this was you agreeing with me but then you've liked the other comments disagreeing with me. What you've done there is told me "the system is broken, and that's that, nevermind how it is giving you penalties for no reason".


Yeah, it turns fair punishment of losing the time you lost into some overlord giving you a randomly generated penalty despite not gaining any advantage or doing anything unsporting. A DR drop would make way more sense.

I don't really need to patiently gauge them, I just need an opportunity. When you are racing fast people there are no easy opportunities so you pretty much can't risk racing because any touch and you'll lose several places. Also can't push to the limit because any slight corner cut = 8s penalty and it's race over.

My clips were all recorded in a few days early this week/late last week. I've noticed the bad drivers continue to drive badly while the good drivers are not racing at all. I keep getting let past and I let people past to avoid penalty. So much fun!


You probably have watched it and just can't justify them or are too afraid to. A grand total of three of them I only started recording after it happened. There's clear explanations in the video so you know what happened. Why the hell are you asking me to tell you what the rest is like? Watch the clips.

Do you want to let me know why that one was a pretty obvious penalty? I would have got 5 seconds if I had ploughed straight into the back of him and taken the position off him (and so would he), but I get 9 seconds for doing everything I can to avoid him and not gain any time from it. The game is encouraging me to crash into people. This is neither unsporting conduct nor gaining an unfair advantage.

Yes you're right two after that the game saw me losing several seconds as a corner cut because the penalty system is broken!

If you're that lazy then just attempt to justify 2:57 and 3:19. Recognise how that ruins every race! You cannot go anywhere near another car without high risk of penalties. You cannot even follow them safely because they randomly stop in the middle of corners to deal with penalties or spin out and you get penalties from that. Me and Stefounzy had a great, clean battle and came out of it with a total of 9 seconds of penalties. You cannot race! You can only go on a timid follow the leader Sunday drive.


Thanks, and yeah it does come with small risks. Occassionally there are nudges or brushes or taps or whatever but no one wants to be given 5 second penalties for this. Not me nor the guy I'm racing with. Actual incidents which are my fault are always minor - I never completely wipe people out. I'm not trying to be big headed but when you are at or near the top level you can do risky looking things without big consequences because you minimise incidents so well and so does the guy you're racing with. It's always going to be rough around the edges but we are being penalised as if it is trolling.


Could you be more specific as to which ones are deserved and why?


But the game has a damage system. When you hit the wall hard you get engine damage and you lose loads of time because your car starts chugging along at 40mph until it fixes itself. That's a fair system because it seems to be pretty consistent and it's just what happens when you crash. It's a natural punishment, like losing time because you spin out. Applying a penalty that can vary from 5 seconds to 18 seconds at random is an irritating, inconsistent, unfair overlord micromanaging the game and completely not what penalties are for.


You can't make people stay on track that stringently though without ruining the racing. It might encourage people who drive way above their skill level to be more careful but in AS/SS lobbies it means someone goes a bit wide allowing you to catch up, you think "great I've got a chance here... so exciting!" and then they stop because of a penalty and it's race over and you're left frustrated and bored. It takes a natural, fair time loss which influences the race well and turns it into an arbitrary penalty that ends your race.

There are two justifications for a penalty - 1) gaining an unfair advantage, 2) unsporting conduct against another player. None of these clips contain either of these.
With that in mind, I will go through each clip and explain why they don't require a penalty.
0:03 - losing 10 seconds of time crashing meets neither of those definitions. On top of that, 18 seconds is a completely ridiculous and race ending amount of penalty.
0:16 - Going off and losing half a second meets neither of those definitions, and it includes a natural, fair penalty for going off.
0:34 - same again. As you can see it seems to be exponential - the more time you lose, the more penalty you get which is idiotic.
0:48 - so I outbraked myself and if I didn't get a penalty I'd not have lost any time relative to giamp. A 1s penalty might be justified on that basis. However the corner cut did not gain time, I did not hit anyone, and the only reason for the corner cut was to not hit another driver. The game gives a higher penalty for a corner cut that gains no time compared to hitting another driver hard.
1:34 - It was a mirror image of the clip that comes afterwards, losing time is not gaining an unfair advantage. The game cannot distinguish between blasting straight across the chicane at full speed and outbraking yourself.
2:24 - ridiculous again, you can literally see the guy get past me because of my mistake. That is the natural punishment and a fun part of racing. The penalty that came afterwards ended our battle for no reason.
2:38 - same again, you can literally see the guy fly past me because I've lost like 2 seconds.
2:57 - I am ahead and have the inside, the guy turns into my rear quarter. If anyone should get a penalty it's him, but since it was such a light tap neither of us should have got a penalty.
3:19 - a great move by Stefounzy which the game penalised me for because of such a light brush you can hardly notice it. No one is at fault, no one crashed, nothing happened yet we're penalised for it.
3:31 - I get punted off. Need I say any more.
3:44 - The cone knocks 20mph off my speed. I have no time to react, neither does Stefounzy. 3 of us get penalties for it and lose several places. Ridiculous.
4:16 - the guy suddenly loses it and despite my best efforts I couldn't avoid a slight nudge. Absolutely no advantage gained and no unsporting conduct yet penalty.
4:33 - you can see me coasting into the corner because I actually have no intention of overtaking the guy even though he's way slower purely out of fear of penalties, but he virtually stops in the middle of a corner (maybe because of a penalty). No unsporting conduct, no unfair advantage.
4:53 - another racing incident with no unfair advantages nor unsporting conduct. I brake a tiny bit late so end up a tiny bit slow at the apex and get a bump from behind. No need for the penalties.
7:18 - this cannot even be interpreted as a corner cut or crash or anything, it's me having a tank slapper and that's worthy of penalties now apparently. Ridiculous.

I don't need to go into the clips showing the inconsistency, you can see for yourself how ridiculous it is - flipping a coin whether you get an 18 second penalty or nothing for cutting or crashing.
I also don't need to go into the ones about people getting in the way - but this is happening every lap of every race and it makes races frustrating and ruins races too.
Think of how this affects racing - I am not racing, I am waiting for people to get penalties. That is not fun. That is not exciting on the limit racing. People are letting me past. That is unsatisfying.

I´m all the way with you, Matty... Nice and well put all together, in this post!!! And "Unsatisfied" is very lesser word forwhat we truly have to say about it... I think...

I think the penalties are harsh, but they will encourage you to try harder to stay on track in future... which is for everyone's good.

Robben.., I know you mean good but. .that´s almost like cutting and arm to a guy that has just caught a grape and tasted it on the supermarket, assuming that no one was seeing... to ensure that he won´t commit crime next time.. like stealing an apple.. or something as criminal as that!!!

To be honest... it comes closer to that real news I´ve read sometime ago... that on an Arabic Country, a teenager was condemned to death by dilapidation (to be publicly executed with stones thrown form the public) because... she was raped... and so she was to blame for such crime that would not be taken is she.. simply would´nt be there at that moment!!!!

 

[Matty28]

Matty28

You missed 4.28 guy goes off trying to dodge you stopping on the racing line at a very fast section of the ring

But yes the penalty system is messed up for sure.
Its is like they are trying to force people to drive well within themselves and never go off track.
I can live with most of it as if I go off its my fault but the one penalty that drives me mad is when you get tapped from behind and get a penalty or when you get punted by someone that has missed the braking zone going 50+km faster and get a penalty 🤬🤬

Yeah well that's how they cause more chaos. I didn't realise he was there until it was too late. Yeah it is micromanaging you so harshly that the only way to avoid penalties is to keep well clear of any other cars. Even following with no intention of overtaking is not safe. Yeah I hate those but for me the worst are the slight rubs because they are punishing exciting fair racing and the excessive corner cut penalties e.g. gain 0.05s get 8s penalty or even lose 2 seconds get 18s penalty as in the video.

The penalties are also there to keep people honest, which in games are usually very important or people will cheat, push you and in general be annoying pricks. And in the game they (for me at least) work mostly as intended.

That is what I said isn't it? Cheating = gaining an unfair advantage. Pushing you (when it's their fault) = unsporting conduct against another player. I'm not saying get rid of penalties we need a penalty system but just stop penalising the lightest of unnoticeable contact, normal offs where no time is gained and ridiculously over the top penalties for cuts because they're punishing good drivers to the point where their races are ruined if they're even attempting to race in the first place.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

SS here (not the Hitler ones). Explain why I deserved penalties for any of the clips in this video I posted earlier

This is a terrible example. The first 3 minutes consists of your own mistakes and then you stupidly brake on the racing line to get rid of penalties. You should go off the racing line first.

Some of the incidents here were actually caused due to you irregularly slowing on the racing line.

I agree that it is often stupid to get large penalties after clearly losing time off the track, but you are making so many mistakes, so you clearly aren't racing safely and consistent enough to be a S SR driver. And then you almost always made it worse by braking right infront of others. Yeah, sometimes you were ghosted, but sometimes you weren't, and that definitely isn't safe.

I think the updates are stupid for A/S and S/S drivers, however this video just goes against what you are trying to say.

EDIT: Also it is unbelievably hypocritical for you to have a section about blocking due to others having penalties, considering how much of the first half of the video shows you doing the exact same thing, but only in your case you would often get lucky and be ghosted.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

It seems harsh that going off track without any intention to reduce the track length, incurs a time penalty.

It would be too complicated to test against all run outs to assess what can and cannot be artificially gamed. Even under the current system some run outs can still be used to create artificial turn angles where you can generate higher exit speeds.

For example, currently people abuse the Mercedes Arena run out on Nurburgring GP, where they intentionally run out on turn 2 (Mercedes Arena) to the edge of the invisible penalty barrier in order to create an easier angle for turn 3, which also creates a higher exit speed into turn 4 where they exploit that run out to go flat out, out of turn 4.

 

[Mr616]

This is a terrible example. The first 3 minutes consists of your own mistakes and then you stupidly brake on the racing line to get rid of penalties. You should go off the racing line first.

Some of the incidents here were actually caused due to you irregularly slowing on the racing line.

I agree that it is often stupid to get large penalties after clearly losing time off the track, but you are making so many mistakes, so you clearly aren't racing safely and consistent enough to be a S SR driver. And then you almost always made it worse by braking right infront of others. Yeah, sometimes you were ghosted, but sometimes you weren't, and that definitely isn't safe.

I think the updates are stupid for A/S and S/S drivers, however this video just goes against what you are trying to say.

EDIT: Also it is unbelievably hypocritical for you to have a section about blocking due to others having penalties, considering how much of the first half of the video shows you doing the exact same thing, but only in your case you would often get lucky and be ghosted.

Agree. This should not be S/S gameplay. Yes penalties are harsh, but drive within yourself and most of those don't happen.

I think this is what PD are trying to purge. S/S especially should be close, minimal mistakes and close but considered racing. NOT bouncing off barriers and struggling to stay on track.

If that was streamed as an S/S top tier race, it'd be a laughing stock, regardless of the penalties.

To win a race, you must first finish the race.

 

[Draggon]

What I've noticed to be (my opinion) the worst part of the new system is how the penalties count down. It used to be that you could work off 5 seconds or more over a few laps and not lose a whole lot of time. That doesn't work anymore, as well as having fewer places to do this. I rarely, if ever, saw folks stopped on the racing line waiting out their penalties until this new system.

And the ghosting of lapped cars doesn't always work either. I went into the wall at Blue Moon yesterday when a lapped car was ghosted, but really wasn't. I tried to drive through and him the reaction was like billiard balls for us both. Why ghost if you have to avoid someone as if he wasn't.

I wonder who Kaz hired to test the system out? Oh, wait, nevermind......

 

[bdz_apa]

I went online in Race B today for the first time since the new penalty system, and instantly knew it was a bad decision.

B/S driver rating, started 5th on the grid with a qualiy of 2.01. Maintained 5th until the start of lap 2 and the dive bombing and taps began. Everytime I got hit I got a penalty. Got nudged off the track and got a penalty. I was riding around with around 11 seconds of penalties by the time I approached Parabolica. On the start finish straight, I pull to the far right of the track to stop my penalty time growing. Re-entered around 13th. And it just kept getting worse.

On the last lap, I'm around 9th now, but from Lesmo all the way to, and including Parabolica there are cars just slowing down on the fast part of the track to kill penalties. On Parabolica the car in front decided it was time to do around 30mph to get rid of a penalty! Needless to say I hit their rear and got a 5 second penalty.

Anyway, I went from a B/S rating to a B/B. My SR dropped from 88 to 40!

The gamers who hit me during the race ended up with blue SR's at the end. How does that happen?

I knew I should have stayed away from Monza!

I do understand your feelings... However I got real good race at Monza yesterday, so I think it also depends heavily on how you survive the first lap when everyone is up and nervous. Or towards the end when mistakes start to occur.
All in all, I would appreciate if cars serving penalties went ghost for a while. Much safer for everyone.

 

[Koutch_Pro]

There are two justifications for a penalty - 1) gaining an unfair advantage, 2) unsporting conduct against another player. None of these clips contain either of these.

Just my opinion after watching the vid;

This sentence should state : There are two justifications for a penalty - 1) gaining an unfair advantage, 2) unsporting conduct against another player. Almost all of these clips contain both of these.

I would like to ad a third reason 3) Not living up to game rules.

About all of the "incidents" within the first 5 or 6 minutes are option 3) Not living up to the game rules.
They are very basic, contact = punishment. leave track / hit barrier = punishment. The way in wich the game sees it is very basic, contact / no contact. Period.
If you don't serve the penalty given to you, you will receive more punishment in added time.

The game physics are not human, therefore even the most harmless "stroke on the bumper" or 1 mm to far of track result into punishment.

@Famine had a very good answer to just about the same statement/question like you're, just can't find it right now.

 

[Matty28]

This is a terrible example. The first 3 minutes consists of your own mistakes and then you stupidly brake on the racing line to get rid of penalties. You should go off the racing line first.

Some of the incidents here were actually caused due to you irregularly slowing on the racing line.

I agree that it is often stupid to get large penalties after clearly losing time off the track, but you are making so many mistakes, so you clearly aren't racing safely and consistent enough to be a S SR driver. And then you almost always made it worse by braking right infront of others. Yeah, sometimes you were ghosted, but sometimes you weren't, and that definitely isn't safe.

I think the updates are stupid for A/S and S/S drivers, however this video just goes against what you are trying to say.

EDIT: Also it is unbelievably hypocritical for you to have a section about blocking due to others having penalties, considering how much of the first half of the video shows you doing the exact same thing, but only in your case you would often get lucky and be ghosted.

Again, penalties are for cheating and unsporting conduct NOT mistakes that cause no harm to anyone else or so little harm it is not worthy of a penalty.

I braked on the racing line twice - once when I didn't see anyone behind and it was only a 1s penalty and 2nd kinda deliberately out of anger and because the idiot behind me who touched me knowing it would cause a penalty. You expect me to be acting good as gold when I've been given a 3 second penalty for absolutely nothing and selflessly get out the way of the one who caused it?

It's interesting that you watch a compilation of penalties and then accuse me of making so many mistakes lol. What did you expect? In addition to this, I rarely drive on the nordschliefe on this game and I had never driven the Vulcan and it's weird lack of brakes before. I can upload you video after video of almost mistake free races on Nurburgring or Monza or Kyoto or Brands Hatch etc but it would take ages.

I fully admit that I have slammed on the brakes while enraged about idiotic pointless penalties and that I try to get rid of unfair penalties quickest not safest but the point remains that penalty takers are all over the track getting in the way, myself included. They could easily solve this by simply adding the penalty onto your end time and get rid of the concept of taking the penalty mid-race or by fixing the system.

Agree. This should not be S/S gameplay. Yes penalties are harsh, but drive within yourself and most of those don't happen.

I think this is what PD are trying to purge. S/S especially should be close, minimal mistakes and close but considered racing. NOT bouncing off barriers and struggling to stay on track.

If that was streamed as an S/S top tier race, it'd be a laughing stock, regardless of the penalties.

To win a race, you must first finish the race.

Remember I am driving with unpredictable people who are much slower than me having been dropped down to B after the Bathurst crashfest caused by the penalties on tracks I don't drive and cars I've never driven. Did I make some mistakes here and there? Yes. Like I said to the other guy, you are watching a penalty compilation of frustrated me racing against some unpredictable drivers not me racing with other comparable drivers pre-penalty update.

You can see "close, minimal mistakes and close but considered racing" at 2:57 and we get penalised for it.

I'll upload a full race for you pre-update.

I've won about 1/3 of the races I've done btw.

 

[kjeldsen]

Yeah well that's how they cause more chaos. I didn't realise he was there until it was too late. Yeah it is micromanaging you so harshly that the only way to avoid penalties is to keep well clear of any other cars. Even following with no intention of overtaking is not safe. Yeah I hate those but for me the worst are the slight rubs because they are punishing exciting fair racing and the excessive corner cut penalties e.g. gain 0.05s get 8s penalty or even lose 2 seconds get 18s penalty as in the video.


That is what I said isn't it? Cheating = gaining an unfair advantage. Pushing you (when it's their fault) = unsporting conduct against another player. I'm not saying get rid of penalties we need a penalty system but just stop penalising the lightest of unnoticeable contact, normal offs where no time is gained and ridiculously over the top penalties for cuts because they're punishing good drivers to the point where their races are ruined if they're even attempting to race in the first place.

The penalties are there to enforce the rules setup by the game. And some of the complaints from very good awesome and ridiculous fast drivers do come across as entitlement to being special.. They are not if they can't follow the rules.

Slightly touch someone for example opens up a huge margin of slightly and touch. The game makes it easy, do not touch.
But but fast drivers!?
are going to be fast without touching or they were not slightly touching to begin with..

But but real close racing!?
Everyone is welcome but if the car in front brakes a bit earlier or makes a slight mistake and goes wide do not complain about the punishment, thats what goes with risks..

 

[war_ops_84]

SS here (not the Hitler ones). Explain why I deserved penalties for any of the clips in this video I posted earlier

Not going to parse the entire video but I can explain your first two penalties fairly easily.

Penalty at 0:26: You drove completely off the track, cutting through some track in the process.
Penalty at 0:56: Again, you drove completely off the track, cut through the track, and cut off another driver. That was pretty egregious.

So are you really not understanding why you received those penalties?

 

[_ApexPredator]

I stopped after 60 seconds. Looks like you just need to drive a bit slower.

 

[war_ops_84]

Again, penalties are for cheating and unsporting conduct NOT mistakes that cause no harm to anyone else or so little harm it is not worthy of a penalty.

Who says penalties are not for mistakes? If I mistakenly throw the ball out of bounds during a basketball game, my team loses possession of the ball even though nobody was harmed. Similarly, if you veer wildly off the course, cutting through track in the process, then you should receive a penalty even though it was a mistake. It has nothing to do with your intentions, as those cannot be gauged. Instead, it has to do with maintaining ORDER, and your aggressive driving was contributing to DISORDER on the track. And I have no problem with you being aggressive in your driving. Just accept the greater risks that go along with being aggressive and stop acting like the game is shortchanging you.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

Remember I am driving with unpredictable people who are much slower than me having been dropped down to B after the Bathurst crashfest caused by the penalties on tracks I don't drive and cars I've never driven. Did I make some mistakes here and there? Yes. Like I said to the other guy, you are watching a penalty compilation of frustrated me racing against some unpredictable drivers not me racing with other comparable drivers pre-penalty update.

If you get easily frustrated due to other peoples driving, and then due to that said frustration, you purposely brake infront of someone as well as making a lot of mistakes due to your frustration, then you aren't enough of a sportsman to be S SR.

Oh, also, you say elsewhere that you'd never driven the Vulcan. Surely you drove it enough in qualifying to understand its braking points? Like yeah sometimes you go a bit wide, that's understandable, but how did you brake so late on Lap 1 Turn 1 that you got reset? Did you not drive the car at all before going into a S SR Sport Mode race? If so, that's incredibly unsportsmanlike.

 

[Matty28]

The penalties are there to enforce the rules setup by the game. And some of the complaints from very good awesome and ridiculous fast drivers do come across as entitlement to being special.. They are not if they can't follow the rules.

Slightly touch someone for example opens up a huge margin of slightly and touch. The game makes it easy, do not touch.
But but fast drivers!?
are going to be fast without touching or they were not slightly touching to begin with..

But but real close racing!?
Everyone is welcome but if the car in front brakes a bit earlier or makes a slight mistake and goes wide do not complain about the punishment, thats what goes with risks..

You could say that about anything. The game demands you drive backwards or get DQed. Well deal with it you entitled brat!

It's usually easy to see a clear fault mistake and a racing incident. That brush at 2:57 is the definition of a racing incident with no victims.

There shouldn't be punishment to complain about. Does a football team get one player sent off every time they concede a goal? Give me 1 single instance of a real racing incident where someone crashes involving no one else and is given some sort of penalty for it. 1. I bet you cannot find it.

Just my opinion after watching the vid;

This sentence should state : There are two justifications for a penalty - 1) gaining an unfair advantage, 2) unsporting conduct against another player. Almost all of these clips contain both of these.

I would like to ad a third reason 3) Not living up to game rules.

About all of the "incidents" within the first 5 or 6 minutes are option 3) Not living up to the game rules.
They are very basic, contact = punishment. leave track / hit barrier = punishment. The way in wich the game sees it is very basic, contact / no contact. Period.
If you don't serve the penalty given to you, you will receive more punishment in added time.

The game physics are not human, therefore even the most harmless "stroke on the bumper" or 1 mm to far of track result into punishment.

@Famine had a very good answer to just about the same statement/question like you're, just can't find it right now.

Sorry, you are completely incorrect and I can tell you are someone who doesn't know racing. Pay attention to the video, I lose time in every single clip. You can barely stay in S SR and couldn't even get into A for ages. You're less than 1/5 of my DR.


"contact = punishment" is like saying "gun violence = punishment... doesn't matter which side of the bullet you're on!"

Not going to parse the entire video but I can explain your first two penalties fairly easily.

Penalty at 0:26: You drove completely off the track, cutting through some track in the process.
Penalty at 0:56: Again, you drove completely off the track, cut through the track, and cut off another driver. That was pretty egregious.

So are you really not understanding why you received those penalties?

0:26 - WHAT? What planet are you on? How does one cut through some track and lose 0.5 seconds? Name one incident in real racing where a car lost time by going wide and was penalised for it.
0:56 - A complete misrepresentation. I avoided a crash. The game punished me more for avoiding the other player than if I had gone into the back of him and driven off.

Who says penalties are not for mistakes? If I mistakenly throw the ball out of bounds during a basketball game, my team loses possession of the ball even though nobody was harmed. Similarly, if you veer wildly off the course, cutting through track in the process, then you should receive a penalty even though it was a mistake. It has nothing to do with your intentions, as those cannot be gauged. Instead, it has to do with maintaining ORDER, and your aggressive driving was contributing to DISORDER on the track. And I have no problem with you being aggressive in your driving. Just accept the greater risks that go along with being aggressive and stop acting like the game is shortchanging you.

False equivalence. A penalty would be having a player sent off for accidentally throwing the ball out of the pitch. If I drive off the track then I lose the time I lost. No racing series in the world gives penalties for people going wide and losing time involving no one else. The example you've given is not even a penalty, it's just a rule of play.

Secondly, I did not say "mistake", I said "mistakes that cause no harm to anyone else or so little harm it is not worthy of a penalty". It is a mistake to dive bomb into the back of someone and obviously that is worthy of a penalty. I haven't mentioned anything about intentions. By definition, inconsistent penalties are shortchanging someone. They are also ruining the enjoyment of the game. I have not stated that I am a sole victim of the penalty system.

 

[Chevy Heavy]

I so miss playing this game, but I will not allow myself the frustration with doing so. I'm getting enough at work currently. I really feel they missed an opportunity during this latest maintenance to make some minor adjustments to the penalties. Even if they made the penalties the same across the board for everyone, at least that would be a step in the right direction. But then I suppose you would have more cars littering the track serving penalties.

I know PD must be monitoring these forums. I would think with a 40 page thread on the subject that they would at least acknowledge that changes are being considered. Maybe they realized they went to far and don't know how to fix it? But I've seen plenty of suggestions here and that would be a great place to start. My idea of fun is not a game of follow the leader where the only way to pass anyone is if they screw up and go off track or pull over to serve a penalty. If they are not going to change things they may want to change their tagline to 'The Real Driving Penalty Simulator'.

 

[kjeldsen]

The penalties are there to enforce the rules setup by the game. And some of the complaints from very good awesome and ridiculous fast drivers do come across as entitlement to being special.. They are not if they can't follow the rules.

You're less than 1/5 of my DR.

Hahaha oh well, back to the subject, your mistakes even if they do not harm anyone should be punished of course, you race fast and hard, and others get into trouble when you mess up, so naturally (as mentioned above) the game has rules/limits that it enforces in order to keep that in check and force drivers to be less risky, more careful and cause less accidents and frustrated players all around the world.

 

[war_ops_84]

0:26 - WHAT? What planet are you on? How does one cut through some track and lose 0.5 seconds? Name one incident in real racing where a car lost time by going wide and was penalised for it.

If this were real racing, then you wouldn't have been driving that aggressively in the first place.

0:56 - A complete misrepresentation. I avoided a crash. The game punished me more for avoiding the other player than if I had gone into the back of him and driven off.

I misrepresented nothing.

It is an observable fact that you (1) drove completely off the track, (2), cut through the track, and (3) cut off another driver.

The only reason you can claim to have "avoided a crash" is because you put yourself in a situation where a crash was almost unavoidable. that's on YOU, not the game.

False equivalence. A penalty would be having a player sent off for accidentally throwing the ball out of the pitch. If I drive off the track then I lose the time I lost. No racing series in the world gives penalties for people going wide and losing time involving no one else. The example you've given is not even a penalty, it's just a rule of play.

Secondly, I did not say "mistake", I said "mistakes that cause no harm to anyone else or so little harm it is not worthy of a penalty". It is a mistake to dive bomb into the back of someone and obviously that is worthy of a penalty. I haven't mentioned anything about intentions. By definition, inconsistent penalties are shortchanging someone. They are also ruining the enjoyment of the game. I have not stated that I am a sole victim of the penalty system.

No, it's not a "false equivalence".

They are both examples of unintentional acts that cause no harm to others resulting in a penalty.

Yes, the example I've given is a penalty. The loss of possession is the penalty.

You did not expressly mention intentions, but you mentioned a mistake, which necessarily implies intent.

By the way, a mistake is an action or judgement that is "misguided" or "wrong", so by your own admission you did something that deserved a penalty.

 

[war_ops_84]

You can barely stay in S SR and couldn't even get into A for ages. You're less than 1/5 of my DR.

lol

Get over yourself.

Your rating makes zero difference to the underlying logic of the rules of the game.