Whats up with this new penalty system its absolutely ridiculous

[Voodoovaj]

I think this is what PD are trying to purge. S/S especially should be close, minimal mistakes and close but considered racing. NOT bouncing off barriers and struggling to stay on track.

I think the penalties are having this side effect, I agree there may indeed be an intentional purge in play, but this seems like such a haphazard and poorly executed way to go about it.

Yes, PD has THE WORST community communication, but how about "Hey, there's some bad behaviour. We're cranking up the penalties to deal with it until behaviour becomes acceptable."

Almost two weeks now and I am still leery of entering any races even though, by all accounts in these various threads, I'm doing everything correctly. One little mess up by someone, and I'm screwed.

 

[LNSE492]

I gave it another go yesterday - played Monza half a dozen times. Managed a couple of clean races and picked up two more wins, but some of the penalties for the merest touches are an absolute joke.

I lost 29 SR points in a single race. I tapped the car in front at the second chicane - he wasn't punted off, it was just a tap, but I was given a 5 second penalty. I then got hit from behind myself, adding another 1s penalty, which meant that the penalty was above the magic number and therefore increasing with every passing second. I waited until after the second Lesmo to pull to the side of the track to serve my penalty, hazards on, and still got a whack from the rear that gave me another 10 seconds penalty time. The rest of that race was completely clean once the penalty had been served - I was not expecting such a big hit to my SR! You must lose SR points each and every time the penalty increases above 5 secs?

Got a clip saved from another race which sums up the problem with these penalties - we'd all made it through T1 safely at the start, and going through Curva Grande two cars in front rubbed wheel arches. Both of them received a penalty for it, which they served on the way to the second chicane, one pulling to the left of the track and the other to the right. Neither of them were ghosted, so I had to weave between them in the braking zone, as did two other cars in close attendance. We all made it past, until someone just ploughed into the back of the penalised Lamborghini, punting him into me and pushing me across the chicane. Net result was a 5 second penalty to me, and spawned back at the chicane in last position whilst everyone else carried on scot-free. The root cause of my ruined race was a pointless penalty for two cars ahead - rubbing wheel arches side-by-side doesn't deserve a time penalty, and when serving them causes a chain of events that involves numerous cars behind, something is very badly wrong with the system IMO.

As an aside, why do people so desperately serve penalties on the finish line? Do you get marked down for carrying a pen at the finish?

 

[war_ops_84]

I think the penalties are having this side effect, I agree there may indeed be an intentional purge in play, but this seems like such a haphazard and poorly executed way to go about it.

Yes, PD has THE WORST community communication, but how about "Hey, there's some bad behaviour. We're cranking up the penalties to deal with it until behaviour becomes acceptable."

Almost two weeks now and I am still leery of entering any races even though, by all accounts in these various threads, I'm doing everything correctly. One little mess up by someone, and I'm screwed.

Yes, their communication is pretty poor. People should not have to guess at how things work or why they work the way they do. That is a fair criticism of how they've handled this.

 

[Matty28]

Hahaha oh well, back to the subject, your mistakes even if they do not harm anyone should be punished of course, you race fast and hard, and others get into trouble when you mess up, so naturally (as mentioned above) the game has rules/limits that it enforces in order to keep that in check and force drivers to be less risky, more careful and cause less accidents and frustrated players all around the world.

This is the subject. You are telling me I am a crap, unsporting cheater who can't stop crashing into people and being at fault yet the comparison between our stats is so vast and suggests the literal opposite. It is like a 12 year old karting driver who has just been dropped from a young driver program for being slow and dangerous advising Lewis Hamilton that he is a crap driver. I am not making an ad hominem attack, there are different levels of knowledge and ability for everything, I am simply pointing out that whatever bad things you say about my driving, clearly you are miles more so.

Staying on the track is not and shouldn't be against the rules. That's why no racing series and up until now, no racing game has given penalties for going wide or crashing. It's like telling a football player he can't run faster than 12mph and if he does then he gets a yellow card. It's utterly stupid and creates this fake environment where no one is really racing/playing properly.

If this were real racing, then you wouldn't have been driving that aggressively in the first place.

Oh really

Whoops

I misrepresented nothing.

It is an observable fact that you (1) drove completely off the track, (2), cut through the track, and (3) cut off another driver.

The only reason you can claim to have "avoided a crash" is because you put yourself in a situation where a crash was almost unavoidable. that's on YOU, not the game.

1) not a reason for a penalty, 2) only a requirement for a penalty if you gain time, 3) not a reason for a penalty
So stop with this nonsense. Why did Jan Magnussen not get a penalty for straight lining the chicane at Le Mans 2017? Why did Hamilton not get a penalty for going straight across the chicane at Mexico (or Russia?)? Because they didn't gain time. Why has not a single driver ever been given a penalty for going off the track (to my knowledge, not including cuts that gain time)? You'd have a point if we were on a roundabout with #3 but anyone who is familiar with racing would laugh at that one. I braked a bit late and due to my avoiding skills, nothing happened. That's why there is no need for a penalty.

No, it's not a "false equivalence".

They are both examples of unintentional acts that cause no harm to others resulting in a penalty.

Yes, the example I've given is a penalty. The loss of possession is the penalty.

Yep, it absolutely is a false equivalence. A penalty is a penalty, the ball being given to the other team when it goes out of play is a rule. They do not have a time out penalty, nor a card, nor are sent off no matter how many times it goes out of play. They are not breaking rules by the ball going out just like I am not breaking rules by going off the track.

You did not expressly mention intentions, but you mentioned a mistake, which necessarily implies intent.

By the way, a mistake is an action or judgement that is "misguided" or "wrong", so by your own admission you did something that deserved a penalty.

Hmm... So penalties for every mistake then? If you brake a bit late but there's no car in front = 1s penalty? If you brake a bit early = 2s penalty? Do you seriously think there should be penalties for all mistakes regardless of any other variables?

lol

Get over yourself.

Your rating makes zero difference to the underlying logic of the rules of the game.

Lol. That must be why when I got dropped to A SR every race is a crashfest in comparison to my usual races. It must be because your sportsmanship rating has nothing to do with how likely you are to be involved in incidents. And how likely you are to be involved in incidents must have nothing to do with your understanding of racing. That all makes sense now. Here's me thinking 99 sportsmanship was better than 1 sportsmanship. I suppose that's the same with anything - the amount of best selling books you release has nothing to do with how good at writing you are.

 

[Matty28]

As an aside, why do people so desperately serve penalties on the finish line? Do you get marked down for carrying a pen at the finish?

I've seen that too, nearly went straight into the back of one of them. It's probably a good way to serve penalties because you only lose the time slowing down/stopped whereas other times you'd continue to be losing time the rest of the straight. And yeah, any penalties left are rounded up a second (3.001 = 4s) and get added to your time.

 

[shaunus]

This is the subject. You are telling me I am a crap, unsporting cheater who can't stop crashing into people and being at fault yet the comparison between our stats is so vast and suggests the literal opposite. It is like a 12 year old karting driver who has just been dropped from a young driver program for being slow and dangerous advising Lewis Hamilton that he is a crap driver. I am not making an ad hominem attack,

Yes you are, you are being incredibly rude and trying to bully other posters into silence for giving honest opinions of a video you posted for discussion..

YOU posted the video of you driving very very badly.

Other times you may drive very well, even extremely well. Not as well as you think obviously (Lewis Hamilton comparisons aside lol) but in the case YOU willingly posted you drove very badly indeed.

Why would you be surprised when people are unimpressed by your complaints when after 30 seconds of video they stop watching and say 'Maybe stay on track for 30 seconds before worrying about the details of the penalty system?'. Was your rule that only people who want to tell you how great you are should respond?

 

[Voodoovaj]

As an aside, why do people so desperately serve penalties on the finish line? Do you get marked down for carrying a pen at the finish?

I've seen that too, nearly went straight into the back of one of them. It's probably a good way to serve penalties because you only lose the time slowing down/stopped whereas other times you'd continue to be losing time the rest of the straight. And yeah, any penalties left are rounded up a second (3.001 = 4s) and get added to your time.

I believe you take a larger SR hit if you carry your penalty to the end. I had a 1 second penalty yesterday (for some else's mistake) and I carried it to the finish and lost some SR ranking (2 points IIRC). I got a 1 second penalty (the car beside me lost traction on a corner exit and hit me) and I managed to run it off and have no SR drop.

 

[Matty28]

Yes you are, you are being incredibly rude and trying to bully other posters into silence for giving honest opinions of a video you posted for discussion..

Your feelings will not get in the way of me presenting evidence you are talking codswallop. I told you it was not an insult & why it was relevant so I guess you just want to be offended or something.

YOU posted the video of you driving very very badly.

Other times you may drive very well, even extremely well. Not as well as you think obviously (Lewis Hamilton comparisons aside lol) but in the case YOU willingly posted you drove very badly indeed.

It's not relevant whether the driving was good or not. Only whether it is deserving of a penalty, which it is not.

Why would you be surprised when people are unimpressed by your complaints when after 30 seconds of video they stop watching and say 'Maybe stay on track for 30 seconds before worrying about the details of the penalty system?'. Was your rule that only people who want to tell you how great you are should respond?

Perhaps because most normal people don't look at a compilation of penalties to show the penalty system is not functioning correctly and wonder why it isn't 7 minutes of perfect driving? Perhaps they also don't call drivers with a pretty consistent 99 SR rating bad drivers who can't stop crashing while simultaneously being so crash-prone they've only been 99 for 3 days out of 47? Perhaps they also take onboard that pretty much all the top drivers hate the new penalty system?

I believe you take a larger SR hit if you carry your penalty to the end. I had a 1 second penalty yesterday (for some else's mistake) and I carried it to the finish and lost some SR ranking (2 points IIRC). I got a 1 second penalty (the car beside me lost traction on a corner exit and hit me) and I managed to run it off and have no SR drop.

Possibly although I just carried 5 seconds of penalties to the end but have remained 99.

 

[shaunus]

I don't think you are a bad driver at all. I've only got the start of your video to go by after all, which only says you were a bad driver on that occasion, what you do other times must look very different indeed.

Were you doing it on purpose to generate penalties to make a point or something?

 

[_ApexPredator]

0:56 - A complete misrepresentation. I avoided a crash. The game punished me more for avoiding the other player than if I had gone into the back of him and driven off.

Who's fault would it have been if you hadn't avoided it?

The only reason you can claim to have "avoided a crash" is because you put yourself in a situation where a crash was almost unavoidable. that's on YOU, not the game.

That was rhetorical btw, answer's there ^

It's not relevant whether the driving was good or not. Only whether it is deserving of a penalty

Bad driving deserves to be penalised.

 

[Matty28]

I don't think you are a bad driver at all. I've only got the start of your video to go by after all, which only says you were a bad driver on that occasion, what you do other times must look very different indeed.

Were you doing it on purpose to generate penalties to make a point or something?

The start of the video? I am getting rid of an 18 second penalty. What is bad exactly? I can't go anywhere because it starts going up. I'm right on the edge of the track.

Who's fault would it have been if you hadn't avoided it?


That was rhetorical btw, answer's there ^


Bad driving deserves to be penalised.

So we penalise on potential crashes not actual crashes. So this goes back to what I said earlier about him thinking we should give penalties out for braking too late whether there's a car in front or not, whether you go off or not, regardless of all variables and results except you made a mistake. I did avoid it, no advantage gained, no one wronged, hence no penalty. And for the 3594th time, that's absolutely not how penalties are dished out in real racing.

 

[Famine]

And for the 3594th time, that's absolutely not how penalties are dished out in real racing.

But it is in GT Sport - and that's what we're all playing.

In GT Sport you get penalties if you drive off the circuit (although different circuits have different limits as to where that is), or contact things like barriers and other cars (not cones and other movable objects though). You also get penalties if you overtake a car considered to be actively racing during a yellow flag zone.

Since 1.13, the penalties are more zealously enforced and now accumulate, if not promptly served, once over five seconds. That's not how it happens in real racing either, but it is in GT Sport, which is what we're playing.


I watched the first minute of your video "76 seconds of penalties" and saw you got penalised twice for driving off the track and once for hitting a barrier. If I continue to watch this video, will I see any instances of penalties being given for reasons other than leaving the track, contact with barriers/drivers, overtaking under yellow flags or penalty time accumulation?

 

[shaunus]

The start of the video? I am getting rid of an 18 second penalty. What is bad exactly? I can't go anywhere because it starts going up. I'm right on the edge of the track.

I was referring to the first actual incidents you showed (as said, I'm ignoring any part where you are just typing comments about incidents that happened off screen, because how could anyone comment on something they didn't see?). 18seconds in you cut the track short. 50 seconds in you hammed up an attempt to deal with an early brake. 1:30 you demonstrate that it did not penalise running wide. I stopped then because you were back to talked about off-screen incidents.

 

[mclarenLB]

I don't believe I have actually commented on this new penalty system but I'll throw my 2 cents in.

I love it, but I'm speaking as an ex-iRacing player where any contact is either going to tank your SR or permanently damage your car... Since that game conditioned me to race in such a DON'T TOUCH ME way I feel right at home with this.

The only thing that needs to be changed in S/S is when you give contact so light it literally doesn't effect either driver in anyway, that shouldn't give a penalty.

However that ridiculous prolonged side-by-side rubbing that people were doing before the update? Turning into people when they have the inside? Just not giving room in general? All should be penalised and I'm really enjoying that it is doing so now. It can just be a little OTT sometimes

Its worth mentioning that in S/S I haven't seen a single person attempt an absolutely stupid move since the update, so like or not guys it IS getting people to race cleaner.

 

[Matty28]

But it is in GT Sport - and that's what we're all playing.

In GT Sport you get penalties if you drive off the circuit (although different circuits have different limits as to where that is), or contact things like barriers and other cars (not cones and other movable objects though). You also get penalties if you overtake a car considered to be actively racing during a yellow flag zone.

Since 1.13, the penalties are more zealously enforced and now accumulate, if not promptly served, once over five seconds. That's not how it happens in real racing either, but it is in GT Sport, which is what we're playing.


I watched the first minute of your video "76 seconds of penalties" and saw you got penalised twice for driving off the track and once for hitting a barrier. If I continue to watch this video, will I see any instances of penalties being given for reasons other than leaving the track, contact with barriers/drivers, overtaking under yellow flags or penalty time accumulation?

Yeah, and my point is that it should not be. Again, "that's how it is, put up with it" is not a valid argument. You wouldn't say that if the game DQed you for touching kerbs.

Actually I think the same circuits and the same corners have different limits depending on how lucky you are. As I linked earlier there's a clip of an S driver being shunted and going straight over the Monza chicane and getting nothing while I get 18 second penalties for losing time going off in the same section. And I also get no penalty for it the next two times. It's randomly generated as far as I can tell. I've never noticed the yellow flag one, but they should get rid of that as well. Not sure whose life they're trying to protect with that one.

I think it's a bad idea for it to go up the longer you leave it as well because that's what causes slow cars all over the road causing more crashes and more penalties. And as discussed you can't race without penalties if you get penalties for a mere brush. So it's a slam dunk of rubbish really in my opinion. I can't really think of anything admirable about it to be honest. If absolutely no one got away with things then I'd call that a benefit but as shown earlier they do.

I don't know why people keep trying to get me to describe the rest of the video for you. Just watch it. It's not 3 hours long.
"overtaking under yellow flags or penalty time accumulation"
"penalty time accumulation"
I don't know what else you want or expect but those aren't in the video. You'll see people getting in the way and causing more crashes including myself because of the penalties, you'll see a great move by Stefounzy which I was penalised for because of a light brush I didn't notice at the time, you'll see me getting a 3 second penalty for someone turning into my rear quarter very lightly, you'll see me getting no penalties for directly comparable incidents.

I was referring to the first actual incidents you showed (as said, I'm ignoring any part where you are just typing comments about incidents that happened off screen, because how could anyone comment on something they didn't see?). 18seconds in you cut the track short. 50 seconds in you hammed up an attempt to deal with an early brake. 1:30 you demonstrate that it did not penalise running wide. I stopped then because you were back to talked about off-screen incidents.

Well my description is clear and there's no room for interpretation for the actual first one. I went straight off the track and into the barrier, hitting no one in the process and losing a load of time. Anyway I don't know what the point is here.

 

[shaunus]

Well my description is clear and there's no room for interpretation for the actual first one. I went straight off the track and into the barrier, hitting no one in the process and losing a load of time. Anyway I don't know what the point is here.

To simplify, my point is the only penalties I saw you get you deserved.

If you cut a corner it is not reasonable to expect the game to compare sectors to see if you actually get the penalty. Too much to ask.

 

[Matty28]

I don't believe I have actually commented on this new penalty system but I'll throw my 2 cents in.

I love it, but I'm speaking as an ex-iRacing player where any contact is either going to tank your SR or permanently damage your car... Since that game conditioned me to race in such a DON'T TOUCH ME way I feel right at home with this.

The only thing that needs to be changed in S/S is when you give contact so light it literally doesn't effect either driver in anyway, that shouldn't give a penalty.

However that ridiculous prolonged side-by-side rubbing that people were doing before the update? Turning into people when they have the inside? Just not giving room in general? All should be penalised and I'm really enjoying that it is doing so now. It can just be a little OTT sometimes

Its worth mentioning that in S/S I haven't seen a single person attempt an absolutely stupid move since the update, so like or not guys it IS getting people to race cleaner.

I think I have a higher tolerance for error (it only really bothers me if they gain an unfair advantage or end my race) but doesn't it annoy you when someone turns into you when you are ahead and you get the penalty? Or if you go a bit wide, lose 2 seconds and then get a 5 second penalty? And the inconsistency? Has none of that happened to you yet? Maybe it's because you're always miles out in front and a way better driver than me. I mean in our race earlier if I drove straight into the back of you and you got a 10 second penalty you'd think that's silly right?

To simplify, my point is the only penalties I saw you get you deserved.

If you cut a corner it is not reasonable to expect the game to compare sectors to see if you actually get the penalty. Too much to ask.

Why can a game not make some effort to distinguish? Were you going 150mph through a chicane? Were you 10 metres inside the apex or 5cm? Create a rating of speed and distance from track limit to generate a fair penalty. Not just a randomly generated number anywhere from 3s to 18s. The idea that you can go a bit wide, lose half a second and get a 2 second penalty for that is still completely alien to me. Why can't we penalise people who get some oversteer? 10 degree drift angle = 10 second penalty? Sound good?

Hhahaha another one


Straight across the chicane, no attempt to stop, not shunted off, only an 11second penalty! Crazy game.

And the second one I have been given 5 seconds for that and he got 1 second. No penalty for the contact which was his fault on the straight where I would have got 3 seconds.

 

[Famine]

Yeah, and my point is that it should not be. Again, "that's how it is, put up with it" is not a valid argument.

That's because it's not an argument. It's literally the reality of it.

We all play by the same rules. We know what those rules are. If we don't like the rules we're free not to play - I sometimes don't, because I can see what the result of those rules will be before I even turn a wheel.

Sometimes those rules change. Update 1.13 changed them ever so slightly, in terms of enforcement and the accumulation of penalties. Other updates have changed some of the circumstances slightly, but ultimately the position remains from the day the game released that driving off track, contact with other drivers and barriers, and overtaking an active car under yellow flags are all situations that are likely to attract a penalty.

So did you deserve those 76 seconds of penalties? Yes (based on what I saw in the first minute; the others may have been wholly false for all I know), because you did things that are likely to attract a penalty. Whether you think it's unfair, or doesn't happen in real life, or whatever else you think doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what I think about it either. The reality is that in GT Sport, these things attract penalties.


I get that you want the rules to change much more broadly, to allow for circumstantial decisions, but it hasn't even come close to happening yet. I'm also not sure how you'd go about getting those rules to change - but I doubt the contents of this thread will ever come up in a Polyphony Digital strategy meeting about GT Sport's penalties.

 

[mclarenLB]

I think I have a higher tolerance for error (it only really bothers me if they gain an unfair advantage or end my race) but doesn't it annoy you when someone turns into you when you are ahead and you get the penalty? Or if you go a bit wide, lose 2 seconds and then get a 5 second penalty? And the inconsistency? Has none of that happened to you yet? Maybe it's because you're always miles out in front and a way better driver than me. I mean in our race earlier if I drove straight into the back of you and you got a 10 second penalty you'd think that's silly right?

Uh no not really, lemme explain.

The idea behind the current penalty system is to get you to stop hitting people, period, that's it.

So right now they give both drivers involved in a collision the penalty (unless its stupidly obvious who was at fault), why? because that's a system that is impossible to game. Hitting someone is an immediate lose/lose for both drivers.

But that's unfair right? You'll get penalties sometimes you won't deserve?

Yep.

However, if 2 drivers collide and they both get the penalty, they're now both pretty annoyed about it, because they've both lost out in some way. This means they are less likely to do it again.

So you mentioned that if you hit me earlier, I could've got a penalty too?

But here's the thing, you won't hit me. Why? Because you know for a fact the second you hit me... and it doesn't matter how you do it, you are 100% getting a penalty and THAT is what this penalty system is designed to do.

Its designed to make everyone absolutely terrified of hitting each other to create cleaner races, and you know what? Its working, the quality of S/S rated races in the last week has shot up massively, no stupid dive bombs, no squeezing people of the track because everyone is now recognising that you simply won't gain an advantage from doing it, you'll just a get penalty and fall further back.

In short, the old penalty system could be completely gamed which would encourage players to pull certain dirty moves at certain times to gain an advantage, with this new one, errr yeah, you just can't.

So yeah, I like it, needs a bit of work but I like it, there's a reason why iRacing has used an 'equal punishment' SR system for years now... Its because it works.

 

[Matty28]

That's because it's not an argument. It's literally the reality of it.

We all play by the same rules. We know what those rules are. If we don't like the rules we're free not to play - I sometimes don't, because I can see what the result of those rules will be before I even turn a wheel.

Sometimes those rules change. Update 1.13 changed them ever so slightly, in terms of enforcement and the accumulation of penalties. Other updates have changed some of the circumstances slightly, but ultimately the position remains from the day the game released that driving off track, contact with other drivers and barriers, and overtaking an active car under yellow flags are all situations that are likely to attract a penalty.

So did you deserve those 76 seconds of penalties? Yes (based on what I saw in the first minute; the others may have been wholly false for all I know), because you did things that are likely to attract a penalty. Whether you think it's unfair, or doesn't happen in real life, or whatever else you think doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what I think about it either. The reality is that in GT Sport, these things attract penalties.


I get that you want the rules to change much more broadly, to allow for circumstantial decisions, but it hasn't even come close to happening yet. I'm also not sure how you'd go about getting those rules to change - but I doubt the contents of this thread will ever come up in a Polyphony Digital strategy meeting about GT Sport's penalties.

Is that what you say to anyone who seeks an improvement in anything?

I suppose we do all play by the same slot machine*. That's one of the core problems with this system. As I've shown probably 10 times now your penalties can vary from 0 to 18 seconds for the same thing.

So if the system hardly changed why had I not complained about it before? It was a bit stupid, all penalty systems are, but it didn't make the game near-unplayable. The game did penalise me for hitting walls before, that was probably its biggest problem. But I saw that as a necessary evil to stop people doing that thing where they just go full speed into the wall and get slingshot round the corner and it is pretty rare that happens. Until the update I had never been penalised for a slight brush, never been penalised for people shunting me off from behind, never been penalised for just going wide, never had an 8 second penalty for a 5cm corner cut.

Not even circumstantial, I can live without that. It's not a frequent occurrence that I go across a chicane. All I want as a minmum is for it to just require an actual crash or hard bump to trigger a penalty like it used to and to give 1s penalties instead of 8s penalties for a 5cm corner cut. Those two things would transform its current state and make it so much less frustrating and get rid of my fear of being near any other cars.

If you can't be bothered to watch the rest of the short video, just look at these two bits to see the biggest problems (they both automatically go to the relevant timestamp):



If they get rid of that atrocious rubbish I'll stop whinging.

 

[mclarenLB]

First video, the car that got the penalty is clearly slightly further over to the right, the border for giving a penalty and not giving a penalty has to be somewhere.

Second video you should've given stefounzy more room on the inside and I guarantee that guy who punted you at the hairpin is either not doing it anymore as he realises he isn't gaining an advantage or he isn't S SR anymore.

 

[Famine]

Is that what you say to anyone who seeks an improvement in anything?

Yes. If someone actively seeks change, they should spend their efforts wisely to effect it. Wasted effort just leads to frustration and anger.

Your discourse with other members in this thread since Tuesday is not a wise expenditure of effort for the change you seek - especially as a lot of them don't appear to agree with your assessment, and the language used is becoming more and more emotive.

I suggest the posting to the various social media channels that Polyphony Digital, or possibly regional Sony brand managers, operate would be more beneficial to you.

 

[mthomas_95]

Anecdotally, most issues now stem from people trying to remove 2 second penalties in awkward spots. Today for example a group of us caught someone speeding up from serving one and the speed differential + 4 cars occupying similar track at different speeds and angles racing for position caused chaos.

Ease the tapping penalty trigger slightly and most of the issues at A/S races are gone and less people will be getting so annoyed and therefore likely to trigger more penalties.

 

[Matty28]

Uh no not really, lemme explain.

The idea behind the current penalty system is to get you to stop hitting people, period, that's it.

So right now they give both drivers involved in a collision the penalty (unless its stupidly obvious who was at fault), why? because that's a system that is impossible to game. Hitting someone is an immediate lose/lose for both drivers.

But that's unfair right? You'll get penalties sometimes you won't deserve?

Yep.

However, if 2 drivers collide and they both get the penalty, they're now both pretty annoyed about it, because they've both lost out in some way. This means they are less likely to do it again.

So you mentioned that if you hit me earlier, I could've got a penalty too?

But here's the thing, you won't hit me. Why? Because you know for a fact the second you hit me... and it doesn't matter how you do it, you are 100% getting a penalty and THAT is what this penalty system is designed to do.

Its designed to make everyone absolutely terrified of hitting each other to create cleaner races, and you know what? Its working, the quality of S/S rated races in the last week has shot up massively, no stupid dive bombs, no squeezing people of the track because everyone is now recognising that you simply won't gain an advantage from doing it, you'll just a get penalty and fall further back.

In short, the old penalty system could be completely gamed which would encourage players to pull certain dirty moves at certain times to gain an advantage, with this new one, errr yeah, you just can't.

So yeah, I like it, needs a bit of work but I like it, there's a reason why iRacing has used an 'equal punishment' SR system for years now... Its because it works.

I know and that would be a good thing if we were racing with idiots, but we're racing with great, fair drivers 99% of the time. We don't need an overlord to smack us for the slightest error because we aren't idiots to begin with.

I don't think it works how you describe with the people we race with. It makes you timid and scared to race, which takes all the enjoyment out. The people who hit you already don't want to hit you. They already do care that they hit you. They're already being reasonably careful. It does not magically make you a better driver than you already are. You'll still make mistakes, you'll still hit people every now and then or go off. The difference is now when they do hit you it's race over rather than a little hiccup. Timid, scared driving is not equal to becoming a better driver. Bad drivers who divebomb and crash into people without a care in the world is who it's aimed at. And honestly there's more chaos because of the penalties than there was before in those races. Our races are kind of semi-races, but theirs are now not even classed as races imo. It's 50% still not caring and 50% not attempting to race.

Still, I can get over shared penalties if they just require an actual crash and apply cut penalties reasonably.

I don't recognise your view that it has improved driving. It's the same but with constant penalties as far as I can tell. Again maybe it's because you are always so far out in front. I never really noticed gaming the old system. Not entirely sure what you mean by that. When could you do dirty moves? Can you not game the system now by simply weaving wildly so they never even attempt to pass?

I backed out of the inside line on the first corner in our race earlier out of pure fear of a penalty. Did you enjoy that or was it a bit boring? Did you enjoy some guy serving a penalty in front of me ending our race prematurely or was that a bit of a shame? This is why I call it semi-racing.

Oh and it isn't always shared because Stefounzy got no penalty for the tiny brush with no one at fault we had on Tokyo in my video.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I just got punted off the track by a C/S driver in the final turn, he already gave me 2 sec penalty earlier and bashed into me numerous times during the race. He came away with a white S, I lost 12 SR from his actions. It's probably a dirty A driver that got reset to 7K and is working his way back up. He had the speed of DR.A yet was driving like a bulldozer. This penalty system is not working.

 

[J91patriz]

To simplify, my point is the only penalties I saw you get you deserved.

If you cut a corner it is not reasonable to expect the game to compare sectors to see if you actually get the penalty. Too much to ask.

Just my thought, but having experienced the new system I would rather have no penalties than what they came up with now.

You can’t get penalties for making an error, losing time in process put half cm on the grass and also get penalties.

I served penalty just out of the first corner of the 24h because someone barely touched me (another interesting topic). I was essentially not moving at all and to avoid making mess I went half wheel beyond the blue curb on the exit and got a couple second penalties, it just doesn’t make any sense.

Penalties must be measured against any time gain otherwise they are simply what they are now, a joke.

I was already barely touching sport mode, now I do it even less.

 

[mthomas_95]

I just got punted off the track by a C/S driver in the final turn, he already gave me 2 sec penalty earlier and bashed into me numerous times during the race. He came away with a white S, I lost 12 SR from his actions. It's probably a dirty A driver that got reset to 7K and is working his way back up. He had the speed of DR.A yet was driving like a bulldozer. This penalty system is not working.

The biggest issue is so many people are now getting resets and either being in races too high/low for their real level. I've looked at the DR/SR graphs of some guys now in the top lobbies and they resemble the Himalayas in the last week or so. Guys who got into S DR mostly helped from the A DR reset now getting 70,000 DR resets. They drop like a stone for a few races as they're too slow then a dirty race shoots them right back up and the cycle starts again.

 

[Matty28]

First video, the car that got the penalty is clearly slightly further over to the right, the border for giving a penalty and not giving a penalty has to be somewhere.

Second video you should've given stefounzy more room on the inside and I guarantee that guy who punted you at the hairpin is either not doing it anymore as he realises he isn't gaining an advantage or he isn't S SR anymore.

Yeah I know it's further over to the right. My point is that it should be a 1 second penalty not an 8 second penalty. 8 seconds ended my chance of winning and took away the great battle I was going to have with Indianfood and turned it into hotlapping in 4th. 1 second would have put Indianfood in front but continued the battle and not been completely over the top. I gained < 1 tenth from being a couple of centimetres to the right.

I don't think the Stefounzy one is an incident. It's just not an incident at all. We're talking about giving him a couple of centremetres because we are analysing the replay frame by frame after the fact. You can't be that precise in the moment. We're talking about turning in 0.1 seconds later to give him the perfect amount of room. You're going to have a brush like that in racing. It's not worthy of a penalty. I doubt the guy meant to punt me and if so then maybe he will maybe he won't do it again because mistakes happen. Maybe he missed the pedal idk. I doubt someone in our races deliberately drove into me at full speed or thought that was a legit overtaking manoeuvre. One thing's for certain it makes me not want to bother playing when I get a penalty for something lightyears away from being my fault and is unavoidable.

Your discourse with other members in this thread since Tuesday is not a wise expenditure of effort for the change you seek - especially as a lot of them don't appear to agree with your assessment, and the language used is becoming more and more emotive.

I suggest the posting to the various social media channels that Polyphony Digital, or possibly regional Sony brand managers, operate would be more beneficial to you.

Do you have any evidence that they take onboard opinions on Facebook comments on a random post of theirs and not threads on this forum?

No idea how to contact Sony brand managers, highly doubt they're interested in 1/28973424 players contacting them or even that they would accept any contact.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The biggest issue is so many people are now getting resets and either being in races too high/low for their real level. I've looked at the DR/SR graphs of some guys now in the top lobbies and they resemble the Himalayas in the last week or so. Guys who got into S DR mostly helped from the A DR reset now getting 70,000 DR resets. They drop like a stone for a few races as they're too slow then a dirty race shoots them right back up and the cycle starts again.

It looks like DR is getting scrambled atm. Indeed the buggy resets (and actual resets to 7K) are messing everything up. I've seen S/S drivers as well that were way too easy to pass, and plenty lower DR drivers that seem to not belong there as they simply drive off in the distance. Sure there were some people that tanked their DR before and there are also smurf accounts, yet the frequency seems to be increasing. There are probably also extra smurf accounts now as some people are afraid to race with their main account with the new penalties.

Anyway the penalty system is having an adverse effect and is handing out easy poles or cheap upgrades to DR.S like candy... While it is still way too esy to get back to SR.S, especially if you get awarded easy poles. PD did not think this one through.

 

[mclarenLB]

@Matty28 I think iRacing has just given me a higher standard on what an 'incident' is, if you think this game is brutal its nothing compared to that

Actual stop and go penalties for cutting too much and immediate disqualification for over 17 incidents (Car contact is 4 each time, Wall contact is 2 and 4 wheels over the whites is 1)... and these races are 40 minutes long