Which is Faster Supra or skyline..??

[Leonidae]

because Nur is just overwhelming Supra, that's my assumption.. but, if you can find used 6.2 mile R34, that should even up the scales powerwise.

 

[rovens]

Id go with the pinnacle of that range argument, this is comparing supras and skylines, not just comparing the same price/year.

 

[Kent]

Why?

Just wondering, maybe there's a reason I missed?

DE

Wondering about what?
Also...

I'd agree with that theory. The original post says nothing at all about age, so the year of manufacturer should be irrelevant. It is ridiculous to disallow a particular model of Skyline because it's 'too good' - doesn't that answer the question anyway?

Just want to point out that I never used the term too good and I certainly didn't mention anything in my original reply other than "Well, by chance I happen to be investigating this subject.
I just started a GT mode based spot race on the ring and my two cars of choice are the Skyline and Supra."
I only went on to mention "I want to keep things even but I also want to keep them fun. There in lies the problem."

With that said, I think you've put something into this topic on your own and not by my admission. I've only suggested what the problems existed and asked for help about the details.

Try not to take that the wrong way... I just wanted to clear the air a bit.

Now about the details of a comparison...
I feel like the best decision would be to use a '99 R34.
Both cars would be used. 👍
Also, there's only one supra RZ but there are a bunch of R34s. If I was to use a Nur, there is a chance that the years of refinement on the R34 may be represented in the game (the WRS Skyline race had GTP's fastest drivers swearing there is a difference).

So, the GT-R '99 is what I will use. Now to choose a color and get some racing done.

Any last suggestions or insight about my comparo details is welcome, I'm looking forward to hearing what you all think. 👍

 

[Leonidae]

try to find 6.2 mile R34 and do oil change to both cars. my guess is that only difference in numbers will be torque and weight then.

 

[Kent]

That's a good point about getting both of the cars in the 6.2mile version but at the moment I don't have the option.
I don't think it's going to make much of a difference. If I get back before too late tonight I'll post some stats for the first two competitors in a very close matchup. Don't have time for that right now though so until later...
-

 

[Sonzilla]

Sorry, Scaff, I too am interested in this thread and what it might show. Just got a little irked at that comment implying blind stubborness...
*Gladly drops the silly arguements*

Sonzilla, have you any new times in the Supra?

DE

Yep I beat both personal best times

I'm still working on gathering my settings, pics and a video from saturday. I figured out I was down some HP plus new settings helped allot.

I want to make my times as valid as possible, so anyday now I'll post it.

 

[Sonzilla]

Wondering about what?
Also...

Just want to point out that I never used the term too good and I certainly didn't mention anything in my original reply other than "Well, by chance I happen to be investigating this subject.
I just started a GT mode based spot race on the ring and my two cars of choice are the Skyline and Supra."
I only went on to mention "I want to keep things even but I also want to keep them fun. There in lies the problem."

With that said, I think you've put something into this topic on your own and not by my admission. I've only suggested what the problems existed and asked for help about the details.

Try not to take that the wrong way... I just wanted to clear the air a bit.

Now about the details of a comparison...
I feel like the best decision would be to use a '99 R34.
Both cars would be used. 👍
Also, there's only one supra RZ but there are a bunch of R34s. If I was to use a Nur, there is a chance that the years of refinement on the R34 may be represented in the game (the WRS Skyline race had GTP's fastest drivers swearing there is a difference).

So, the GT-R '99 is what I will use. Now to choose a color and get some racing done.

Any last suggestions or insight about my comparo details is welcome, I'm looking forward to hearing what you all think. 👍

Yeah there are so many different combinations to use it's just personal preference. I say go for it why not, the more stats we have and opinions would help as an overall statistical feature for this comparison.


IMHO I think the 97' vs 97' comparo is the best and most logical. But I can't help it but find out what the limits are thus I'm desperately trying to find out with DE.

 

[Kent]

OK, here's the deal...

Both cars are getting the exact same package.
Racing exhaust
Brakes and Controller
Port/polish & engine balancing
Racing Chip
(Skyline takes displacement up)
Full Race Transmission, LSD, ... everything...
Stage 1 turbo and Racing Intercooler
Racing suspension
S3 tires
weight reduction stage 3
(no vcd for skyline)
Body refresher (but no chassis stiffening)

The results...
Toyota Supra RZ '97: 442hp / 2.835 pwr (500+ ft.lb. torque)
Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 '99: 456hp / 2.806 pwr (450+ ft.lb. torque)

After initial testing it looks like the Skyline will understeer more but provide greater stability resulting in faster average lap times. The Supra on the other hand is very powerful and much more likely to oversteer, which may provide potential for some really killer laps.

I'm going to start testing for lap times tomorrow and throughout the week.

(btw, I know the '97 .vs. '97 theme would be best on paper but I want to race the R34 more than the R33 ) (plus it seems to be an even match and more than likely it will be a matter of driver's skill deciding a battle between these two)

 

[Dark Elite]

Kent, I wasn't quoting you on 'too good', merely using it as an example. I understand the point you were making, and that this is not to be a definitive test but more an interesting comparison. I wasn't attacking you on your post at all in fact, I agreed with it

Why?

That was aimed at George.

(no vcd for skyline)

Hallelujah

Looking forward to both Kent's results and Sonzilla's new times

DE

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

It's a shame that there is only one Supra and so many Skylines, it makes it hard to choose, but I think you should use the one closest to the Supra 'agewise'.

!

There are exactly 5 Supras in GT4:

The MKII
The MKIII (two different versions, 3.0 and 2.X)
The MKIV (SZ-R and RZ)

The MKII is hidden in the game under the name of the Celica XX 2800 GT.


BTW:

Why putting these two cars in a war between eatch other?

Why not putting them together, I've seen a dragrace between a Supra & Skyline, both with 1000 HP.

Believe me; That's the most beautiful dragrace I've ever seen 👍

 

[Leonidae]

it's not a war. it's comparison.

 

[Jay]

!

There are exactly 5 Supras in GT4:

The MKII
The MKIII (two different versions, 3.0 and 2.X)
The MKIV (SZ-R and RZ)

The MKII is hidden in the game under the name of the Celica XX 2800 GT.

Don't forget the racing Supra's, they always get included when people count the Skylines.

 

[Dark Elite]

it's not a war. it's comparison.

*raises eyebrows* Indeed.

Don't forget the racing Supra's, they always get included when people count the Skylines.

That puts the numbers for Supras up to around a dozen, so although it's not nearly as many as there are Skylines, it's not quite so far off either.

DE

 

[Kent]

Well, I've completed some testing...

Ran both cars on the Ring at the specs listed earlier in this thread.

7'02.304 Supra RZ '97
7'02.497 Skyline GT-R '99

Don't let those numbers fool you though.
Generally speaking the R34 Skyline is faster.

The Skyline is amazing. Without a GT Wing the R34 could handle the 450hp/ 2.8pwr and with a Wing there was no doubt that this car could run and win the Japanese Championship with ease. Also, the sucker was good to go out of the box! I only tuned the parts, then adjusted the settings for the Transmission and the Wing. Other than those two settings, the Skyline was already on target ... After reducing dampeners to 7/8 & 7/8 I was able to run 4-wheels on track without a sweat while still keeping with the Supra.

The Skyline is definately the car to buy if you just want to apply the parts needed and run with it; no tuning required (or very little). The grip levels are incredible and the braking was great.

All around, because of the ease of driving, I think the Skyline will be (on average) faster than the Supra. Just jump in and go, the Skyline will do the rest of the work for you. 👍

Now about the Supra, that's a different story...
The Supra is the car for those of us who want to create a car (so to speak). Before I could get anything done in the Supra I had to tune and tune. Wheelspin was a horrible handicap for the Supra as it led to oversteer and smoke at almost every press of the accelerator. Luckily, the GT Wing actually made a ton of difference in the drive. Withl the proper LSD, Wing, and Suspension settings I was able to tame the beast.
Contrasting the power of the Skyline's 4wd was the Supra's torque, which in the end, produced higher speeds at the end of the straights (sometimes ).

All in all, the Supra is the car for those who want to tune a car and come up with some unique. The Supra is just right for the master of settings, the drifter, the S tire racer, and of course, the Toyota fan.

Bottom line though: The Supra can only keep up with a Skyline when the driver and settings are just right. The Skyline is just too easy to drive quickly.
Then again, when the Supra is just right, the race is up for grabs.

Btw, I left some time on the track with both cars... This was about testing, not hotlapping.

 

[Leonidae]

you have pretty stiff dampener set-up on GT-R, but on flat track it'll work pretty well. after all, R34 is pretty heavy, so ti needs pretty much stiffer set-up than what I'm used to, since I've specialized on R32's..

 

[GM]

!

There are exactly 5 Supras in GT4:

The MKII
The MKIII (two different versions, 3.0 and 2.X)
The MKIV (SZ-R and RZ)

I know, but what I meant is only one (the RZ) can fairly challenge the Skyline R33 and R34's.

 

[Mc Bob]

I have done my own testing around Nur with a Supra RZ and Skyline GTR M spec NUR and the Skyline was less than a second infront after testing both cars.

They were both great to drive.

i've done a similar test. they are both great to drive, the skyline came across the line at about 2.2 second quicker

 

[Leonidae]

I know, but what I meant is only one (the RZ) can fairly challenge the Skyline R33 and R34's.

that's funny, since I found that the 2.5 GT is pretty competitive as well. Light, well balanced etc.

but i'd still take R32 V-Spec II over any Supra.

 

[Greycap]

Bottom line though: The Supra can only keep up with a Skyline when the driver and settings are just right. The Skyline is just too easy to drive quickly.

I'm not sure about the "too easy" part, it's just like Mario Andretti said: If everything seems to be under control, you are nowhere near the limits. I had a competition with one of the guys here (I'll leave him unnamed, he knows who he is) and thought that I had a very good lap under my belt... driving a Skyline. But more aggressive driving took nearly four seconds off it.

The car was easy to drive at 98% but when taking it to 101% it became quite challenging, something about this tells the fact that not in one single corner on that lap did the car have full grip - it was continuously sliding. Quite controllably, but still so much that even the slightest mistakes would have thrown it straight to the walls.

So, easy to drive quickly - yes, easy to drive totally flat out - not. This is not a final word, just my opinion, but I want to highlight that knowing the car is the main thing here and I know that very Skyline so well that I can take much more out of it than some others.

- R -

 

[Kent]

I don't understand your point greycap. Are you trying to challenge me to see if I can handle racing or are you just trying to re-iterate my point (which you contested in the first sentence of your post)?

I'm not sure about the "too easy" part, ... easy to drive quickly - yes

The Skyline is just too easy to drive quickly.

Looks to me like you said the same thing I did only took out the "Too" and replaced it with something about "totally flat-out" (which the idea of never came up in my original post).
Come to think of it...

Btw, I left some time on the track with both cars... This was about testing, not hotlapping.

Later.

 

[Greycap]

OK, after re-reading my post today I have to admit that you're right... oh well, having a night shift at the army and then coming to GTPlanet the next day and trying to post something intelligent seemingly doesn't work.

By no means I'm trying to challenge you, I just wanted to point out (once again, people keep forgetting it in this thread) that the biggest factor in the speed difference between these cars is the driver and their experience on the cars. I can push the Skyline to the limits but not the Supra, so in my hands the Skyline is the faster one. For the Toyota fans the situation is reversed, they drive the Supra better than the Skyline - and here's the biggest problem of this debate. Having said that, it seems that Dark Elite and Sonzilla have conducted very reliable tests even if they may have personal preferences. 👍

- R -

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

So, the times are based on preferences 💡


Quite speaks for itself, if I would take on Greycap or DE or even Leo with a Skyline, oh boy I would get pwned! But if I'd take them on with a Supra, the situation is...ehhh...reversed

Whatever, they're both great cars 👍

 

[Kent]

What, my test wasn't reliable?
If B-spec testing is what you were looking for...
Personally, I think B-spec would be less reliable. There's no way bob could deal with the Supra's wheelspin and oversteer without slowing down (where as with the Skyline he can just let it rip).

Also, I don't have a prefference in this mix. The Supra is a great car but it just can't match the grip of the Skyline.

Take notice of my words from testing...

Don't let those numbers fool you though.
Generally speaking the R34 Skyline is faster.

I believe this is the case.

Now there is some truth in the driver making the difference. However, I don't think that should be taken simply as a driver-factor. Instead, I think that is actually representitive of how "easy" a car is to drive.
Chances are, there are fewer people who would drive the Supra faster than their are people who would drive the Skyline faster.

What's that say to me?
Suprisingly, nothing about experience or personal prefference. All it says is this- the Supra is more difficult to control and only a few drivers can bring out the full potential.

In my opinion, the car's are evenly matched technically speaking. However, when it comes to which car is faster? The Skyline's reliable stability and handling will usually overcome the Supra's torque and oversteer.

Of course, that's just my personal opinion based on my own biases, without any sort of b-spec testing for evidence. All my work is based on feel and this is just how I feel.

Then again, truth be told, I would rather trust myself to test drive than B-spec bob. Hell, the boy can barely drive fast at any other time in the game, why would he suddenly be able to drive well now?

btw, I never saw this till now...

So what's up with the challenge. I'll drive the Supra RZ, I may not have the reputation as a specialist on GTP but if I would post my time for the WRS Qualifier. I would be somewhere in the top between 6-15 in Division 1. Since my Max drive is broken I can't submit a video but I can provide pictures.

I had no clue you were fast in WRS terms. When did you register with them? Did you like the qualifier?

 

[Greycap]

This thread seemingly has a dark cloud hanging over it for me, everything I say seems to have a second meaning that really isn't intentional. With a 100% reliable person I mean someone who has exactly the same experience on both cars and can bring out their full potential. This isn't to say that the testers are biased, but that would be the best possible situation to see which car is really the faster one.

And you're absolutely right saying that B-Spec is out of question, it's just as reliable as throwing a coin to decide the faster car.

Oh, I just re-read your test post and noticed that you barely had changed the settings of the Skyline at all... and still it was on a par with a tweaked Supra. From personal experience I can say that by spending the same time with the Skyline that you spent by fiddling with the, the Skyline would have swept the floor with it.

I'll stop now, and as my last word I say that if I have to choose from these two cars, I will naturally take the Skyline - but the Supra is also good for those who like it. It's just not the car for me, and it's not about the skill it takes to drive it, I just like the GT-R more.

- R -

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

Too bad these two beauties are so heavy 👎

But you can't say a Supra doesn't pull it at Test Course

 

[rastab97]

both these cars are sweet but i wan't the skyline because i can't have it in america

 

[GT Pro]

Too bad these two beauties are so heavy 👎

But you can't say a Supra doesn't pull it at Test Course

Or a GTR at the Tsukuba.
Problem is, these two cars will get pummelled by a torque-monster AWD machine such as the WRX STi when it comes to overall track performance. But the Supra definately prevails on the Test Course, not that I've ever tested the 3 cars to their limits on it.

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

It does suck to get it under 10 sec in the quarter mile...

 

[Leonidae]

Or a GTR at the Tsukuba.
Problem is, these two cars will get pummelled by a torque-monster AWD machine such as the WRX STi when it comes to overall track performance. But the Supra definately prevails on the Test Course, not that I've ever tested the 3 cars to their limits on it.

1.) I wouldn't call STi "torque monster". it's rev-happy screamer.

2.) it's lighter, it's spiced up family sedan.. not a GT-car like Supra and GT-R.

3.) STi's performance is limited via short gear ratios, GT-R is limited because of lack of proper aerodynamics and supra is limited by the lack of grunt in the high end.

 

[Kent]

Not to worry Greycap, the very reason I brought up the Skyline's settings for my testing was to show how little effort was needed to put the Skyline right with the Supra.
If I didn't say it, I should have, but with some serious efforts to refine the settings, the Skyline would have been great (beating the Supra pretty easily).
None the less, the GTR felt so fast I didn't think tuning the settings was necessary.

Also, I disagree about the Sti comment.
The Sti is slower than the Skyline and in my opinion it will probably be slower than the Supra as well. The Sti just doesn't have the handling of the Skyline or Supra!

And finally, I totally disagree with this comment...

STi's performance is limited via short gear ratios, GT-R is limited because of lack of proper aerodynamics and supra is limited by the lack of grunt in the high end.

In a comparison like this, the gear ratios are easily changed since everything is running on tuned parts. Even without that though, the Sti's short gears will actually help it on 90% of the tracks we test (Tsukuba, city tracks, etc etc).
Regarding the Skyline's aerodynamics... The Skyline has more drag than the Supra but that is because the default setting is a downforce value of 0 in the front and 3 in the rear. That may slow things down a bit, but in the actual track situations it is a great advantage.
Finally, the Supra without topend grunt? You are talking about the Supra RZ '97 right?
Not at all, the Supra RZ is a torque monster capable of incredible power at almost any tuning level. 👍