White Privilege

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I think when someone speaks of the things they are a product of, they're identifying the factors that have had the largest impact on them.

Now you seem to be backpedaling

you
One can be a product of it (read: "affected by it"),

So you're conceding my point that:

me
I don't think it's reasonable to interpret "product of" that broadly.

And now you want to back the conversation back up to where we were before we went down this little dead-end path. Ok... that's fine. But let's call it what it is, a new attempt at justification.


I think when someone speaks of the things they are a product of, they're identifying the factors that have had the largest impact on them. That's far from moot or unreasonable; it can be an instructive conversation to have.

Since we're backing up, I'll point you to this as a response:

me
Yes, but to characterize yourself as "a product of" that thing, is to relinquish responsibility for your life. You can be affected by things beyond your control and still not characterize yourself as "a product of" that thing. Whatever you are, it's your doing. Note I said "whatever you are", not "wherever you are". I doubt Stephen Hawking would like to refer to himself, or have others refer to him, as a product of ALS. I'm having trouble thinking of extreme examples of your argument that result in me having "overstated" anything.

You can't control everything about your life, but if you're in control enough to say "I'm a product of...", you're in control enough to control what you are.

There is a difference between saying "my current status in life is a product of institutionalized racism" and "I'm a product of institutionalized racism". You are what you are regardless of your status, where you live, what car you drive, the contents of your wallet, your khakis. Your circumstances may be a product of external forces, but you're responsible for who you are.
 
I'm not sure what dictionary you're using

Certainly not a web aggregator. The subjective nature of some of those definitions should raise a red flag, no?

Mirriam-Webster (sourced from a human-curation) gives the following;

Mirriam Webster
a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor

The point's moot to an extent - if you want to talk about white privilege then you need to talk about it within the original author's frame of reference.
 
The inference here is that either the producers of major films are employing racist tactics to not cast more racial minorities or the white male population is racist for not consuming films that cast racial minorities in the lead roles. Either way, something is amiss.

This right here is why I think, context and why is important to spotting racist action.

Lets say 3 white straight males didn't watch a movie or show that starred a black homosexual female as the lead role (so Legend of Korra). Would you say it's racist?

If yes, lets give each of them context.

Guy A, didn't want to watch it because it starred a Black, Homosexual, Female. This would be discriminatory.

Guy B, didn't want to watch it because he wasn't interested in the plot and art-style after watching a trailer and prefers watching something else. This wouldn't be discriminatory.

Guy C, didn't watch it because he lacks any form of method to watch it. This definitely wouldn't be discriminatory.

Context is important when determining racism, don't look at what happened and making assumptions on the why as the why is key part. Even worse is when you label an entire population responsible for the act of some peoples actions.

I watch animated movies that don't show off much humans. Would you say I'm racist towards the entire human race?
 
Interesting topic and I totally agree with you @Earth. While I grew up 'poor' by white standards in my eyes because I never went to Disneyland, or ever left the state. My mother made sure I had clothes and food (and video game systems) growing up. We never really went to see movies either, instead we got HBO (read: privilege). Basic needs were met, along with love and that alone is more than other kids get. And that was in a podunk town of 1,200 people.

Why people can't step out of their own shoes and try and imagine what life is like for others is beyond me. Especially when they 'go to church' >_<

I have no clue what it's like for a black man in this country, nor will I ever fully understand it. But I see it, read about it, hear about it, think about it and the injustices that go along with it. To be profiled under the microscope their whole lives and if they are lucky enough to be a pro athlete, I don't blame them one iota for kneeling during the anthem. Rather I respect and applaud them as it normally those privileged people with no compassion for others that don't even attempt to think about why they are doing what they are doing. They simply get offended and call them un-american, lest we forget people also have the confederate flags still. Which is more un-american?

Jerome
 
however, that's assuming that every black person lives the same way and goes through the exact same levels of struggles.

I don't believe it is possible to understand how anyones life is regardless of identity politics. Just because someone is also white doesn't mean I know most or part of their life, same goes for any other person, Issues might happen because of race but there is more to issues with people other than race and the level of race issue depends on the person.

It's impossible to fully relate to anyone, all we can do is support those who need our help.
 
I am of a mind similar to Imari. I don't deny racism is an issue. I do believe it to be systemic. But I don't believe it to be as societal. My guess is if you asked someone if they had racists thoughts on any given day, the answer would be no as a rule. But one only need look at where the end product mostly ended up in the Contra Affair, or look into mortgage lending practices used to keep minorities from buying homes in nice neighborhoods, despite being more than qualified.
But that's going off topic. To me, the word white privilege itself
is a defeatists word. It sounds to much like, as has been said, something you would say if you wanted to knock people down to your peg, instead of being elevated to their's. Further, when you try to place blame on a group of people, you immediately meet with friction and push back. I mean, just look at how certain "groups" react to the term. I hate to say it, but those that would find offense, in America right now, are the same ones who are making policies. Honey, and flies or some ish like that.
Anyway, at its root, "white privilege" is a symptom, not a cause, and won't be cured until the real issue is dealt with. Which, I think highlights another social issue, fixing what's actually broken, which is way harder than pointing out the symptoms of that break.
 
What white privilege is
- facing on average considerably less disadvantages when compared to minorities
- numerous perks in everyday life, such as not having a laundry list of negative stereotypes associated with people of your skin color, or having to be the only person in a room who looks like you
@Imari explained it brilliantly all the way back at post #6, yet you still continued banging on about people having the "privilege" of the fairness of no negative presumptions. It's possible that you don't have the intelligence, but I think it's more likely that you're not comprehending because you've armoured yourself against the truth in hopes of maintaining a soothing fantasy. The fantasy is a multiplier - it suggests that every achievement is greater for having been brought about despite inherent bias.

I think that the easiest way to understand it is to substitute the presumption of inability or ability, with the presumption of guilt or innocence. Guilty until proven innocent, innocent until proven guilty, innocent despite proven guilt - the first is unfair, the second is fair, and the third is unfair (and could be called privilege).

Faced with a situation where certain people were being deemed guilty until proven innocent, should we correct by dragging others down to that level of treatment as well? It shouldn't be a race to the bottom. It also shouldn't be a race to the middle. If the fair are being treated fairly, and the non-fair being treated unfairly, the latter situation is the cause for concern. Compromising the former would just be pure and unjustified vindictiveness.

Certainly not a web aggregator. The subjective nature of some of those definitions should raise a red flag, no?

Mirriam-Webster (sourced from a human-curation) gives the following;
Mirriam-Webster
a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor
The equivalent of "innocent until proven guilty" should never be considered a "peculiar benefit".
 
I'm obviously not big on the notion, but that is completely missing the point. By miles.

What is the point? That white people somehow have it easier in life than minorities? Give me a break.

Racist_Bernie.jpg
 
What is the point? That white people somehow have it easier in life than minorities? Give me a break.

Racist_Bernie.jpg

The stats behind that ill-judged statement have some truth in them. Over a quarter of African-Americans live in poverty compared to ten percent of White Americans - I suspect that's what Sanders was getting at.

The incorrect Sanders statement stands alone from your own argument, if you're asking if White Privilege means that white people somehow have it easier in life than minorities (presuming that you mean racial minorities specifically) then the answer is Yes. That's the point.
 
The stats behind that ill-judged statement have some truth in them. Over a quarter of African-Americans live in poverty compared to ten percent of White Americans - I suspect that's what Sanders was getting at.

The incorrect Sanders statement stands alone from your own argument, if you're asking if White Privilege means that white people somehow have it easier in life than minorities (presuming that you mean racial minorities specifically) then the answer is Yes. That's the point.

I guess the difference is that I don't blame racism for my struggles.
 
I don't have any links right now, but I was watching an interview with James Damore, the guy who wrote the Google memo on regarding their diversity policy, and got fired for it. In the interview, he claimed that Google now has higher standards for hiring new Asian employees, because if Asians were hired based on the same performance standards as other races, the company would basically be all Asian.




Also, it was said earlier in this thread by someone "you have no idea how it feels to walk into a room and be the only person who looks like you," or something along those lines.

I'm white, and I've been the only white person in a room, several times. I've travelled several places in South America, and been the only white person for miles around.

In university, my 3 best friends were 2 Chinese guys and an egyptian guy. We used to go to Toronto, and they'd take me to the "Asian night clubs", and I'd be the only white guy in the whole building. Then we'd go to the after hours Chinese food place that you had to bang on the sketchy door in the back ally. One of the Chinese guys would say something in Chinese, the doorman would give me a sideways looks, and then we'd go in.

I used to go to my Egyptian friend's house for the weekend, and his entire extended family would spend the entire evening talking in Arabic, about ME! While I was in the room (I have an Arabic sounding last name, hence their discussion)...it also didn't bother me much, as my dad's family speaks Czech, and I've been used to hearing a language I don't understand since I was little.

Point is though, lots of white people live lives where they have experiences as a minority. To assume that no white people know what it's like to walk into a room and have everyone look at them because they're white....that's just really narrow minded.
 
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The stats behind that ill-judged statement have some truth in them. Over a quarter of African-Americans live in poverty compared to ten percent of White Americans - I suspect that's what Sanders was getting at.
10 percent is still a large number for a majority, you'd think he wouldn't try and alienate that many people with a collective bogus statement when his odds of beating Clinton were already minimal.
 
I wonder.......

Republican candidate: "When you're black, you don't know what it's like to live in a good neighbourhood. You don't know what it's like to have money."

Would be essentially drawing the same sort of divide, voiced by the opposite side, and I'd hazard that it might elicit outrage from quite a few of the very same people that gave Sanders the thumbs up for his stupid comment. I can see diatribes being unleashed, reeling off examples of successful black people and peoples, and a multitude of "How dare you?"s.

How about showing some respect for people, and not ham-fistedly cramming a whole race into some victim box?

Political point-scoring, and "ethical" (Brownie) point-scoring, really do serve each other well. Neither approaches are interested in the truth, and each sustains the other. It's prevalent on both sides (liberal and conservative), and if all a person is interested in is having their world-view affirmed, there will be a politician quite happy to play on, and profit, from their willful ignorance.
 
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The incorrect Sanders statement stands alone from your own argument, if you're asking if White Privilege means that white people somehow have it easier in life than minorities (presuming that you mean racial minorities specifically) then the answer is Yes. That's the point.

It means that on average white people have it easier than minorities. You can't extrapolate that to any one person's experience, white or otherwise, because all people don't cluster around the average.

I'm all for societal change based on generalised statistics, but this method of taking a generalisation and applying it to individuals in an attempt to guilt or bully them into action is asinine.

In general, they do.

Quite possibly. You're still going to get a non-trivial number of while people who aren't on the caucasian gravy train and who never have been who will quite rightly point out that applying this generalisation to them is daft.
 
What disturbs me the most is the amount, or percentage, of people who feel this does not exist at all.

When searching white privilege on youtube it seems many of the videos are about white privilege not existing, or there is videos of white people mocking the idea. Videos supporting the idea of white privilege are heavily downvoted.

This is very distressing to me.

I'll try to explain my feelings on the topic this way:

There are many types of privileges, being white (in certain areas) is one of them. This does not make people who are white evil or racist. It does not mean all white people receive 4 ounces of solid gold through the mail monthly. It does not mean white people do not have to work hard for anything, or get away with everything. It does not mean social or economic success is guaranteed to white people. Let me explain by giving examples of other types of privilege.

Being born a man gives you the privilege of pursuing a career like mechanic or engineer without people doubting your ability. Being born a man gives you the privilege of playing games online without being sexually harassed.

Being born a woman gives you the privilege of pursing a career like secretary or hair dresser without people doubting your sexual orientation. Being born a woman gives you the privilege of being more likely to win a child custody battle.

I think once people start to understand that white privilege is not the only type of privilege that exists, that can help them lower their guard when talking about it.

Being born white in a country that is predominantly white affords you white privilege. To deny that is to deny reality. To deny white privilege is to deny that any privilege exists at all. To deny white privilege is to say that humans treat and view each and every person equally, and nothing could be further from the truth. Its common behavior for people to favor their 'own', people who look like them, people from the same country, people with the same religion or political party. This is reality.

To white people who who still think white privilege does not exist, imagine this scenario: You are taken to a city in the middle of Africa and told to live there for 10 years. You are the only white person in the entire city. Do you honestly, sincerely believe you will be treated as an equal to the other black people there? That the majority black community will treat you completely fairly and equal while never favoring their own over you? When looking for a job, and its between you and 9 other black people, can you say with 100% certainty the black supervisor is going to see you as an equal and the color of your skin will not affect his decision? How will you feel when you go to the store to get a book for your child and they are all filled with images of black children? Maybe you are single. At work you see a nice looking black woman, you seem to mesh well, but she seems hesitant to be seen around you in front of her black family and friends. This is the land of black privilege, and you do not have it. Sucks doesnt it? To not really know just how much your being screwed over just because of the color of your skin.

I have plenty of personal experiences. I'll start with an example of me being racist to a black man I had met recently. We spoke for a few minutes and he was articulate, so I complemented him on it. I only just realized, some months later, that if he were a white man I would have never complemented him for being well spoken, and I feel gutted. That is just a small example of white privilege. People are not amazed when you do well for yourself when you are white. You are never spoken of as a 'credit for your race'.

I look Middle Eastern more then anything, due to my father being a mixture of races and my mother being Greek. When I go into clothing stores its not uncommon for me to get followed, or shadowed, despite the fact I am usually well groomed and well dressed. Everytime Im not chosen after an interview I cant help but wonder if the way I look had anything to do with the decision. A local temp agency was busted recently for writing B for black and M for Mexican next to the names of applicants. White privilege in full force.

I was just at the fair recently only to notice the owners of one shop do nothing but glare at me while I looked through the items, only to eagerly rush and assist 2 white customers who came long after me. I've gone into a 'country western wear' store only to be completely ignored by the over one dozen store employees while watching in fear as the security guard put his hand on his gun as I walked by. If I was white, I would not suffer that horror and feeling of being seen as sub-human.

When I want to find a date, 90%+ of the girls do not look like me. If I were white, 90%+ of the girls would look like me, and likely be more attracted to me. These are true stories. If I were white, people wouldnt assume I supported Barrack Obama. If I were white, people wouldnt compliment me on how well I speak English. If I were white, I wouldnt be asked to play the role of the slave in 6th grade History. If I were white, I wouldnt be given the undesirable job at the end of the assembly line where the majority of colored employees worked. If I were white, I wouldnt learn little to nothing about my ancestors in school. If I were white, I wouldnt be asked if I liked the only other colored girl in class. If I were white, I wouldnt be considered a foreigner or african-american or native-american or latino, but an American.

White privilege cant be 'fixed' in all its forms, just as someone being born into wealth cant 'fix' themselves. But what the wealthy person should do is first and foremost is acknowledge his privilege. Playing dumb and claiming being born into wealth affords you no advantages or special treatment is being uncouth in the highest order. The next step is to vet yourself. Are you treating all races equally? Do you understand and sympathize with those who dot have white privilege? Do you stand up to and call out those who abuse white privilege?

Abusing white privilege has become neo-racism. Its underground, it isnt blatant, its indirect, it leaves no physical trace or trail, leaving many to question its existence.



Maybe we are from different backgrounds different countries and have different outlooks on the world but everything a person is comes from upbringing. My mum always taught me to respect others and treat people the way I want treating myself. A persons colour means nothing to me everyone is the same a human being. I was raised in the 60s and 70s in a normal not rich home. I saw things on tv like Love thy Neighbour until my mum turned it off. Racism and class was something my mum drilled in to me as being wrong and she explained why it was wrong and she was correct.
Now as much as I agree with your post it irritates me that this still happens in the modern world, it is up to every sane person to raise the next generation in knowing colour, gender, sexual orientation makes no difference to who the person is and everyone should be treated equal.
I have a 9 year old child who got in a bit of a mix up at school, when his mother and I went to school we were told he had punched a lad in the eye,
to say I was a bit shocked is an understatement. Upon questioning my son he and was backed up by all the witnesses told us he had stood up to a lad who was calling a girl a fat slag and racist name, he told this lad to stop as it was disgusting and that the girl is a human the same as he is and it doesn't matter what colour her skin is, And get this the lad tried to punch my son who defended himself.
Now remember these kids are 9 years old so what does that tell us some kids are being taught? I go back to say we need to raise our children better to cut out the hate and the ridiculous class snobbery in all walks of life.
 
A series of really well written articles discussing the issues regarding Lindsay Shepherd and Wilfred Laurier University. This started out as a transgender, pronoun, free speech issue, but has also become a racial issue since Shephard is now accused of "using her white girl tears to oppress her prof, who is a racialized body". I'm not making this up.

There's 3 articles in total, the 3rd one really gets at the meat and bones of what is taking place in society today. Critical Theory (and what these people mean by "Critical"), post modernism, social construction - this is where this idea of "white privilage" comes from.

http://quillette.com/2017/11/21/wilfrid-laurier-creep-critical-theory/

http://quillette.com/2017/12/01/defence-jordan-b-peterson/

http://quillette.com/2017/12/09/white-women-tears-wilfrid-laurier-critical-theory/

I feel like I need to learn more about Jacque Derrida, as he seems to be at the centre of a lot of this.
 
If white privileged does exist, and I’m not sure it does in all instances, surely it would be foolish not to take advantage of it, right?
 
If white privileged does exist, and I’m not sure it does in all instances, surely it would be foolish not to take advantage of it, right?

You'd think so, but apparently if society doesn't treat you as a subhuman outcast you should be ashamed of yourself for being born the way you are.

Frankly I think they should just round up all the people with white penises and get rid of them. That would fix the problem for ever. A Final Solution, if you will.
 
You'd think so, but apparently if society doesn't treat you as a subhuman outcast you should be ashamed of yourself for being born the way you are.

On the islands of Britain and Ireland, even amongst people from the same town there is a culture of trying to show how impoverished your background is. As if there is some reward of maximum sympathy for winning a race to the bottom and the 'loser' must automatically feel guilty.

"When I was growing up we didn't have a dishwasher. Kitchen was tiny because we had a small house."
"I know what you mean. We were living in a two bedroom house with mum, dad and 5 kids."
"Yeah? Well when I was growing up we had an outside toilet. We'd be freezing our :censored:s off in winter just to take a leak!"
"No but seriously, we had the bailiff come round more often than the milkman."
"We lived in a bloc of flats which was a drug den. There were syringes everywhere."

"Haha, well to be fair there was a time when my mum's drug problem left by our dad's abandonment led us to be homeless for a few weeks."


And surprise, surprise, a lot of this talk is amongst white people from the same... uh, 'ethnicity' or however you want to describe it. Almost as if skin colour is not a causative factor in lower socio-economic living.
 
You'd think so, but apparently if society doesn't treat you as a subhuman outcast you should be ashamed of yourself for being born the way you are.

Frankly I think they should just round up all the people with white penises and get rid of them. That would fix the problem for ever. A Final Solution, if you will.
but then who will be treated as the enemies who don't live as bad as others? There is a hierarchy of privilege 💡.
 
Frankly I think they should just round up all the people with white penises and get rid of them. That would fix the problem for ever. A Final Solution, if you will.
Well they did that in Zimbabwe to fix a problem they thought they had and created a problem they didn't expect to have. In any case going down this road means you'd have overpriviged enemies until you are the last man/woman/whatevergender standing.
 
but then who will be treated as the enemies who don't live as bad as others? There is a hierarchy of privilege 💡.
Has to be Asian privilege. On average they make a lot more money than white folks. Jews are right up there as well. A veritable smorgasbord of choices really.
 
Has to be Asian privilege. On average they make a lot more money than white folks. Jews are right up there as well. A veritable smorgasbord of choices really.

But you see there are different types of Asians with different levels of privilege so lumping them all together doesn't work, however we all know that all white people are identical so that's fine (apart from women of course and "insert minority group here"). :sly:
 
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