- 216
- Maggot666PL
Who thinks they should ditch 2 player battle
- Thread starter gtbillyboy
- 104 comments
- 6,779 views
- 3,165
- yeti_c
- 17,439
- United Kingdom
Nah, gotta keep 2 player mode... since GT2 it's been a regular event, gate yer mates round, few beers, winner stays on... jobs a good'un
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
I don't think you really understand how games programming works, or computers in general. It would save a little space in disc space terms but we don't even though they will use it all up in the first place.
It doesn't affect cpu resources though or the ps3's power for other game modes. I have no idea where you got that idea from.
No reason to take out more options. More options = more fun for everyone.
- 1,096
- Wattsterplus
- XML Binging Language?
Seriously, is GTbillyboy [the thread OP] actually going to reply to any of these comments?
I just dont see his point and would prefare if he expanded his logic.
Nevermind
4 player splitscreen FTW
I just dont see his point and would prefare if he expanded his logic.
Nevermind
4 player splitscreen FTW
d3br34k5
Premium
- 445
- Canada
- GTP_d3br34k5
If I'm playing a 2-player split-screen racing game, that game is going to be WipEout HD/Fury.
If PD wants to remove split-screen 2-player racing options, I wouldn't even bat an eye. Not one of my friends enjoys racing me in GT5p split-screen and I don't enjoy split screen GT5p one bit. I'd rather take turns, 5 lap races.
If PD wants to remove split-screen 2-player racing options, I wouldn't even bat an eye. Not one of my friends enjoys racing me in GT5p split-screen and I don't enjoy split screen GT5p one bit. I'd rather take turns, 5 lap races.
- 600
- DeolTheBeast
đź‘Ť
How could you even think for a split second about ditching split-screen? If that was the case how could I do that:
(Yeah, I know - photo is dark. Room was dark ;P)
Awesome
- 95
ok, I think the conclusion is the majority want to keep this feature, with the minority either not bothered about it or are not bothered to register the fact they don't care about it.
And to answer the question about why I think this may require more cpu and memory resources (not disk based, as I never said this), I'll give you an example.
To run two players, split screen on the same TV the game engine in theory will have to draw extra 3d objects for the backgrounds and track assets which will take extra memory/cpu resources. For example, if you have 10 3d assets for 1 player, lets says for the bridges, barriers, sign posts etc, for 2 players the engine will have to draw 20 assets, as both cars will never be at the same point in the 3d space with the same viewing angle on track. Therefore you will have to draw and render 10 3d assets for each half of the screen - they will just be drawn half size.
So to continue this example, the question is whether the single game mode only had 10 objects to draw or it had 20 objects, but they reduce this for 2 player mode to compensate, or they leave something in reserve in the single player mode, so they can process extra assets etc for 2 players.
It seems from prologue that they reduce the post processing effects and remove some of the extra features to compensate for having to process 2 input controls, 2 forcefeedback terrian mapping, and the overhead of having to draw more 3d objects on one TV.
So we will never know if they balance it out, so in the end the memory and cpu overhead is the same as a single player mode, just without the bells and whistles, or they have to leave something in reserve on the single player mode to cope with the additional overhead for 2 player mode.
I just hope they make the single player mode the best possible, and compromise the 2 player mode, rather than leaving something in reserve, as I will be playing single mode with AI or online far more than 2 player mode.
And to answer the question about why I think this may require more cpu and memory resources (not disk based, as I never said this), I'll give you an example.
To run two players, split screen on the same TV the game engine in theory will have to draw extra 3d objects for the backgrounds and track assets which will take extra memory/cpu resources. For example, if you have 10 3d assets for 1 player, lets says for the bridges, barriers, sign posts etc, for 2 players the engine will have to draw 20 assets, as both cars will never be at the same point in the 3d space with the same viewing angle on track. Therefore you will have to draw and render 10 3d assets for each half of the screen - they will just be drawn half size.
So to continue this example, the question is whether the single game mode only had 10 objects to draw or it had 20 objects, but they reduce this for 2 player mode to compensate, or they leave something in reserve in the single player mode, so they can process extra assets etc for 2 players.
It seems from prologue that they reduce the post processing effects and remove some of the extra features to compensate for having to process 2 input controls, 2 forcefeedback terrian mapping, and the overhead of having to draw more 3d objects on one TV.
So we will never know if they balance it out, so in the end the memory and cpu overhead is the same as a single player mode, just without the bells and whistles, or they have to leave something in reserve on the single player mode to cope with the additional overhead for 2 player mode.
I just hope they make the single player mode the best possible, and compromise the 2 player mode, rather than leaving something in reserve, as I will be playing single mode with AI or online far more than 2 player mode.
- 5,677
- United Kingdom
- Dragonistic
So we've established that we all want 2P expanded not cut (generally). I'd be more then happy with just adding the AI folk in, even if not as many as the normal single player. 6 AI + 2 players is plenty to keep things interesting, I also hope they keep it as it is now so you can use cars you own and have tuned in these split screens. IIRC you couldn't do that on GT4 but you certainly can in 5P.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Why do you think it affects the single player in anyway if its there or not?
Like I said (I didn't imply you said it) it only affects disc space. Thats it. It has no affect on other features in the game or performance of the console while playing other game modes beyond taking up a little more of the dev's time in making the 2 player mode.
How the engine approaches 2 player modes I don't know, I'm guessing it simply loads the race, cars and tracks in the same way as 1 player mode but with a different light model, texture model, etc implemented. (as well as splitting the screen, etc). It would simply be a set of modes in the game for different amounts of lighting, graphical detail, draw distances, etc etc etc.
I understand you're trying to say that 2 player mode requires reduced graphical detail etc. Yes it does. But why do you think it affects the performance of single player modes?
Unless you're trying to say you don't like 2 player mode because the graphics aren't as detailed? If so, please try to be a bit more clear...its hard to work out what you're saying.
- 22
Definitely!
- 1,829
- Ireland
If PD removed 2 player split screen then I wont buy GT5. Split screen is the main reason I play GT5. I race as much as I can , gain money , buy cars for 2 player mode , Add parts and tune the cars and when my brother is over we go head to head racing. Ive spent more time on two player split screen than single player.
Also two player mode doesnt affect single player mode in any way. The only thing two player mode does is take up a very small bit of disk space. The only time two player mode demands more CPU and Graphics processing is when 2 player mode is being used. Otherwise all processing power goes to single player mode alone.
Also two player mode doesnt affect single player mode in any way. The only thing two player mode does is take up a very small bit of disk space. The only time two player mode demands more CPU and Graphics processing is when 2 player mode is being used. Otherwise all processing power goes to single player mode alone.
- 266
- aurelio_911
They can't ditch it! It's so good to play GT with my girlfriend, she's crazy about 2P! (With damages it's going to be epic 
)!
)!
- 4,323
I see what GTbillyboy is saying and it's one of those "can't prove it didn't happen things" but gtbillyboy... there is no reason to even think they would damage single player to make 2 player better/possible.
What he is saying, guys, is that he thinks that when PD reduces effects and extras to make 2 player possible (ie turns off post processing, degrades textures etc) they can't do enough to make it playable still while basing it off the single player top quality game engine.
So example:
Single player with high res everything and textures, plus light bloom and high quality reflectinos takes 100% of the horsepower of the PS3.
They try to do 2 player which takes 200% to do the same as 1 player. This is not possible so they turn off light bloom and go low quality reflections... this reduces load by 80% in 2 player mode.
But this still take 120% of the PS3 power... crap still doesn't work...
So they go back to 1 player, retool it, take out a bunch of background items, maybe make the road a less detailed textures and cut down on the car poly count.
Now 1 player is not as good as it could have been and only uses 80% of the PS3.
But when you go 2 player, doubling 1 player takes you to 160%... too much to do... but NOW when they cut out light bloom and drop high qualitt reflections, it only takes 100% of PS3 to do it and it's possible.
gtbillyboy... I woulnd't worry abuot it for one second. They won't do that. They will just keep dumbing down 2 player until it works. Basically the process is do single player, then degrade 2 player as much as necessary to make it work. You drop AI cars, you limit max cars on track etc etc. If you can't degrade it anymore, you just lock it to a lower framerate. Eventually you make it work or you drop 2 player. But you don't ding single player.
So they will make 1 player as great as it can be, then they will keep hammering 2 player mode until it runs right. You might get noteably worse graphics an draw distance, but that is where they will cut, not from single player.
I can't prove it, but if it went any other way, I would eat my hat.
What he is saying, guys, is that he thinks that when PD reduces effects and extras to make 2 player possible (ie turns off post processing, degrades textures etc) they can't do enough to make it playable still while basing it off the single player top quality game engine.
So example:
Single player with high res everything and textures, plus light bloom and high quality reflectinos takes 100% of the horsepower of the PS3.
They try to do 2 player which takes 200% to do the same as 1 player. This is not possible so they turn off light bloom and go low quality reflections... this reduces load by 80% in 2 player mode.
But this still take 120% of the PS3 power... crap still doesn't work...
So they go back to 1 player, retool it, take out a bunch of background items, maybe make the road a less detailed textures and cut down on the car poly count.
Now 1 player is not as good as it could have been and only uses 80% of the PS3.
But when you go 2 player, doubling 1 player takes you to 160%... too much to do... but NOW when they cut out light bloom and drop high qualitt reflections, it only takes 100% of PS3 to do it and it's possible.
gtbillyboy... I woulnd't worry abuot it for one second. They won't do that. They will just keep dumbing down 2 player until it works. Basically the process is do single player, then degrade 2 player as much as necessary to make it work. You drop AI cars, you limit max cars on track etc etc. If you can't degrade it anymore, you just lock it to a lower framerate. Eventually you make it work or you drop 2 player. But you don't ding single player.
So they will make 1 player as great as it can be, then they will keep hammering 2 player mode until it runs right. You might get noteably worse graphics an draw distance, but that is where they will cut, not from single player.
I can't prove it, but if it went any other way, I would eat my hat.
- 736
- MrSchmo
đź‘Ť
How could you even think for a split second about ditching split-screen? If that was the case how could I do that:
(Yeah, I know - photo is dark. Room was dark ;P)
Thats pretty cool. I'd be throwing some elbows or turning his wheel
As for the topic at hand. Doesnt bother me as I rarely play split. I'd rather trade off and have a full screen.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Your friends suck at GT. But that's okay... I know how you feel...
I haven't had a decent split-screen race since GT3. I used to get my behind kicked in split-screen, but come GT4, since I spent so many hours playing, the competition really isn't close.
But it's nice to know it's there. Someday, I will have to teach my little girl how to drive.
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- 30,028
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
All they do they lower the graphics resolutions including the textures, they lower or turn off certain effects like light bloom and the game doesn't load all the objects ie scenery ofbjects as it would in the single player. 2 player modes don't have to sacrifice single player mode in any way at all.
