Will Standard Cars be in GT7?Addressed

[TayeezSA]

What tracks are "standard" tracks? And what are the main differences between them and "premium" tracks?

Take a look at the London City track, the ads are old and some buildings look a bit pixelated when you look up close. Same with Cote D Azur. It doesn't look bad when you race, it's only when you really look.

 

[SergioFilho]

I wonder about this since I saw it the first time
why so much interest in a new GT, and GT6 is not yet complete and this all behind "I say late"
do not misunderstand, but think about now, what has to be done for now!

PD can not sufficient to get a good GT6 people because they make a new and many people invest in it

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Very unusual to see a moderator take sides in a debate.
Even more unusual to see a moderator attempt to psychoanalyse a forum member.

Attempt? The member in question has a habit of making things up. This sure sounds familiar to me.

Surely using a private account if wishing to take part in a conversation is more appropriate.
Not a good look in my books.

I hope you're not suggesting mods keep a second account solely for the ability to take part in the community. We are members just as much as we are mods - if you think this is too much, I wonder what you might think of the Opinions & Current Events section.

But then , I don't really see a problem or any harm , if most of those 600 sub-standards gets upped to semi-premiums (like RUF's ...) , so I can still enjoy cars that are not present in any other game and probably never will.

It's incredibly unlikely all standards (or even most) will be upgraded to RUF-in-GT6-levels; it took three years for a few dozen upgrades between GT5 and GT6.

The number of unique-to-GT cars gets smaller each year.

Now , if you don't see that "magick" of GT are cars that can't be found in any other game then discussion is useless. Reality check tells me , It is harder to find a game where you can drive ie. SUZUKI ALTO or whatever Japanese car from 50s-90s , than latest McLaren P whatever . But yeah , some people like shinny things ,while others are more thrilled over actual content.

What makes a P1 a "shinny thing" while an Alto is "actual content"? Really, I'm curious.

The magic - at least for me - of PD's sometimes more eccentric additions is dampened when they're simply carried over from GT3 or 4 without a single upgrade to their looks. I can think of a few dozen Standards I'd love to appreciate the finer details of, but in GT, I can't. Yep, I can drive them - and there's been a long discussion on whether Standards truly take advantage of everything the new physics engine has to offer or not - but driving is just one aspect.

Funnily enough, Forza 5 just announced an historic first among racing games; the Rolls-Royce brand has appeared in its first-ever racing game, with the Wraith. They've actually got a second "first" as well, since they've included a Formula E car.

When you hoard cars from the past decade, you'll obviously find cars that are only available in Gran Turismo. Most developers have however moved on from 2004.

Indeed. While it should be clear, I suppose I'll restate it; I don't think all the models that comprise Standards should be permanently wiped, and barred any further appearances in the series (like the Alcyone and Cosmo of GT1/2, as just two examples). I think PD should focus on making Premium versions of the most recognized/used/important ones, and toss the ones that are no longer relevant, until such a time comes that they too can get newer assets to better represent them. Is the Honda Element going to be missed by the vast majority of players? Or the Range Stormer, a concept version of a production vehicle that's now gone into its second generation? The same could be said of the Infiniti FX concept.

Reality check also tells me that you'll find the BMW E30 - the community's most requested car since GT4 - in almost every recent racing game, with the exception of Gran Turismo.

Oh hey, I know that thread

 

[Tornado]

Oh. The "Mazda6 is a staple of amateur touring car racing" thread. That one was great.

Now , if you don't see that "magick" of GT are cars that can't be found in any other game then discussion is useless.

That's a very easy thing when an increasing portion are ones that are fictional. Personally, I couldn't care less about what ultimately meaningless marketing stunt PD wants to waste already seemingly precious development time on instead of real cars, so in that respect I truly don't see the magic.

Reality check tells me , It is harder to find a game where you can drive ie. SUZUKI ALTO or whatever Japanese car from 50s-90s , than latest McLaren P whatever . But yeah , some people like shinny things ,while others are more thrilled over actual content.

I imagine "others" would be more "thrilled" about the "actual content" if it was more relevant in 2014 than the 20 year old JDM-only economy cars and forgotten undriveable concept cars that everyone always jumps to say the GT series needs simply because no one else has it, rather than any demonstrable benefit. In GT2 many of those cars were interesting, both because the level of care was higher (look at all the racing mods to those lowly hatchbacks which were copy-paste versions of real world race cars) and the cars were only a few years old at the time so they would still be a common sight on the street.

15 years later, those exact same cars being carried around just so someone can claim they are exclusive; with the implication that having cars that other games have isn't worth it and while no modern equivalent to those old cars exists, isn't the benefit "others" like to paint it as. It also doesn't do a particularly good job representing the history of those cars anyway when anything older than 1989, even for Japanese cars, is usually just ignored.

 

[Tenacious D]

Oh. The "Mazda6 is a staple of amateur touring car racing" thread. That one was great.

Yes, I seem to recall a few people insisting that the Mazda 6 race car wasn't a Mazda 6 in any way, shape or form any more. Strange position to take, considering people refer to the Castrol Celica, the Raybrig NSX, the Xanavi 350Z, the Woodone Supra...

When you hoard cars from the past decade, you'll obviously find cars that are only available in Gran Turismo. Most developers have however moved on from 2004.

And curiously, quite a number of highly coveted sports and super cars come from that era. Thank heaven one game allows us to enjoy the majority of them.

But really, who cares what anyone thinks? GT7 is going to have the cars and tracks it's going to have, and you can buy it, enjoy it, not buy it, whatever your freedom of choice happens to be. I suppose that includes being a drama queen on here for days about Standards, even if you don't admit to owning it, but that's just GT Planet lately...

 

[ScottPuss20]

All GT need to do is even out the ugly bits and textures-that's all I ask for.

 

[Tornado]

Yes, I seem to recall a few people insisting that the Mazda 6 race car wasn't a Mazda 6 in any way, shape or form any more. Strange position to take, considering people refer to the Castrol Celica, the Raybrig NSX, the Xanavi 350Z, the Woodone Supra...

Not so strange, since if you had stopped to actually read a single post in that conversation when you brought it up (it's helpfully linked above, so maybe you can try again) you would maybe have grasped that it was a tubed framed "RX8" race car largely reused with a fully carbon fiber "Mazda6" body on it as was pointed out even back then; plus, you know, the lazy diversionary tactic of bringing up other cars to keep from having defend your failed point about that specific one was about as obvious as could be even at the time (which you were also called out on).


Really, I'm amazed that this was the thing you decided to take a stand on in Slip's post (albeit while purposely ignoring everything he said directly on the last page) when it is the most demonstrably wrong thing you've claimed since you spent multiple pages repeating how Sony had no money so that's why they couldn't improve the series the way people might want.

And curiously, quite a number of highly coveted sports and super cars come from that era. Thank heaven one game allows us to enjoy the majority of them.

Well, at least you didn't try to claim they were more important because they were "pickings we mortals can expect to afford" this time.

I suppose that includes being a drama queen on here for days about Standards, even if you don't admit to owning it, but that's just GT Planet lately...

Blah blah "grumps", blah blah "zombies", blah blah "complainers".

 

[PaMu1337]

Take a look at the London City track, the ads are old and some buildings look a bit pixelated when you look up close. Same with Cote D Azur. It doesn't look bad when you race, it's only when you really look.

I would in no way call London a standard track, it is very detailed. Côte d'Azur is indeed very low detail.
A better example would be to compare Le Mans 2005 to Le Mans 2013. The difference in detail is astonishing.

 

[Bo]

Attempt? The member in question has a habit of making things up. This sure sounds familiar to me.



I hope you're not suggesting mods keep a second account solely for the ability to take part in the community. We are members just as much as we are mods - if you think this is too much, I wonder what you might think of the Opinions & Current Events section.



It's incredibly unlikely all standards (or even most) will be upgraded to RUF-in-GT6-levels; it took three years for a few dozen upgrades between GT5 and GT6.

The number of unique-to-GT cars gets smaller each year.



What makes a P1 a "shinny thing" while an Alto is "actual content"? Really, I'm curious.

The magic - at least for me - of PD's sometimes more eccentric additions is dampened when they're simply carried over from GT3 or 4 without a single upgrade to their looks. I can think of a few dozen Standards I'd love to appreciate the finer details of, but in GT, I can't. Yep, I can drive them - and there's been a long discussion on whether Standards truly take advantage of everything the new physics engine has to offer or not - but driving is just one aspect.

Funnily enough, Forza 5 just announced an historic first among racing games; the Rolls-Royce brand has appeared in its first-ever racing game, with the Wraith. They've actually got a second "first" as well, since they've included a Formula E car.



Indeed. While it should be clear, I suppose I'll restate it; I don't think all the models that comprise Standards should be permanently wiped, and barred any further appearances in the series (like the Alcyone and Cosmo of GT1/2, as just two examples). I think PD should focus on making Premium versions of the most recognized/used/important ones, and toss the ones that are no longer relevant, until such a time comes that they too can get newer assets to better represent them. Is the Honda Element going to be missed by the vast majority of players? Or the Range Stormer, a concept version of a production vehicle that's now gone into its second generation? The same could be said of the Infiniti FX concept.



Oh hey, I know that thread

For someone who doesn't like the "dump all the standards" argument, I can really agree with most of this. 👍

 

[CBH]

I will still be happy if PD left the standard cars how they were in GT6 but we just have to wait and see.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I suppose that includes being a drama queen on here for days about Standards, even if you don't admit to owning it, but that's just GT Planet lately...

That's a bold confession on your part..well done:tup:👍

 

[TayeezSA]

Moving with the times ladies and gents.

Dear PD, please can we have another GT3. Starting afresh was an extremely grand idea, it even made GT4 all the more better. If we want standards again in their prime, then some of us will go and whip out GT4

If Standards were to go, then I want a balanced car choice of Supercars, Sports Cars, Race Cars and Regular Cars

 

[FSportIS]

This thread is still going??

How about this. In the beginning of the game when you load up GT7, it forces to answer the question: Do you want standard cars?
Yes: Delete all standard cars in the game.
No: You have the standard car.
To avoid accidental answer, follow up with a question: "Are you sure about this?"

Now, does it make some happy?
-Yes: YES YES YESSSSSSSSS WE CAN NOW BE HAPPY
-No. Alright let's try another solution

PD, spend all your money, all what you have, delete all the stupid duplicate cars, and make ALL CARS PREMIUMS. There you go, now we have QUALITY + QUANTITY.
The question is then, will you be happy yet???
-Yes. YES YES!!!
-Or No.... the interior still sucks, the wheel doesn't look real, the shadow is off, the driver looks weird, the color looks dull, i hate this car, i hate that car, blah blah blah

So the REAL QUESTION IS: HOW CAN YOU BE HAPPY WITH THIS GAME??

 

[gt362gamer]

FSportlS that opinion is just ridiculous. How can you defend that a company like PD use ps2 cars in a ps4 game? Are you kidding me? We are asking for something we deserve. If I buy a ps4 game, I want a game that fits the console, if I wanted to play with ps2 cars i would play gt4. Cmon, the standard cars in gt5 and gt6 case is already pathetic, but just thinking to do the same in ps4 is absurd.

 

[CBH]

This thread is still going??

How about this. In the beginning of the game when you load up GT7, it forces to answer the question: Do you want standard cars?
Yes: Delete all standard cars in the game.
No: You have the standard car.
To avoid accidental answer, follow up with a question: "Are you sure about this?"

Now, does it make some happy?
-Yes: YES YES YESSSSSSSSS WE CAN NOW BE HAPPY
-No. Alright let's try another solution

PD, spend all your money, all what you have, delete all the stupid duplicate cars, and make ALL CARS PREMIUMS. There you go, now we have QUALITY + QUANTITY.
The question is then, will you be happy yet???
-Yes. YES YES!!!
-Or No.... the interior still sucks, the wheel doesn't look real, the shadow is off, the driver looks weird, the color looks dull, i hate this car, i hate that car, blah blah blah

So the REAL QUESTION IS: HOW CAN YOU BE HAPPY WITH THIS GAME??

I have got a better idea just leave them in the car dealership because the cars are not hurting anybody or anything being in there. 👍

 

[Tenacious D]

I thought I'd respond to stuff when I have some actual yime, and things which could actually be considered a conversation.

GT2's Race Mods were widespread because a car then took maybe a day to make.

I really wouldn't bet on that. It took a few weeks to make a car from scratch back then. Modifying one into a race car... maybe a few days. I think a day is highly optimistic, but that's up to speculation.

[quoteAnd it should be noted that Race Mods were, in many cases in the PS1 games, very different models to their non-(R) counterparts. The MR2 GT-S was a widebodied racer sans pop-ups. The Intrepid became a drag car. [/quote]
I am well aware. As above with the mod thing.

Liveries - crucially, the idea of user-created ones, not just ones PD gives us - are a whole different issue. The modeling style of Standards is very different from Premiums, insomuch that the obsolete models use painted-on textures for things like doorhandles, shutlines, and the like. Those would require a much different approach with a livery editor than Premiums would. Or, to show it visually:

Giving users the ability to apply high-res liveries to something like that would be pointless unless the entire model's texture quality was also bumped.

Well, this is your opinion, but I personally don't share it. Unless I'm mistaken, the quality of the textures/skins is defined by the artist at their creation, and at the time of many of the Standard car's creation, the highest displayable resolution of NTSC TVs was 480i. While I'm aware that you consider all the Standards to be unacceptably ugly, I find the majority of them to be entirely serviceable and would love to see not just Race Mod versions of them, but liveries plastered all over them. Especially since the Livery Editor is going to define the definition of the textures applied.

And as I've already pointed out, they managed to improve a few dozen of the Standards in the three years between 5 and 6. Expecting all of them to be to the Yellowbird or '73 GT-R's quality in a year or two - in addition to your dreams of widespread Race Mods - is just as unreasonable as those expecting the entire car lineup to be Premium.

I've never posted that I expect all Standard cars to be brought up to the quality level of the sub-Premiums at GT7's launch. What I have said is that I want all the race cars brought up to Premium level, and being reworking those Standards into Premium and sub-Premium level which are the most suited to racing, giving priority to doable league oriented race stables, and then whatever Kaz feels would be appropriate. Now before you begin schooling me on how foolish I am, let me reiterate a few facts.

• Many race cars are duplicates in both Premium and Standard form, such as the Ford GT race cars, the Supra race cars, the NSXs, etc.
• Many race friendly sports and supercars have Premium versions which would be easier to modify into race cars than starting from scratch, such as the Aston Martins, BMWs, Jaguars, Ferraris, Lamborginis, RX7s, Miatas, etc.
• The logistics of modeling would mean more sub-Premium cars finished in the time it takes to model Premium cars from scratch, more street cars, more race cars.
• Liveries can be whipped up fastest of all, a race car livery every day, or three with something very complex.

Plus, PD has been busy working on tracks too, and remember a track like Rome can take more than two years to finish. Not to mention work on the Course Maker environs and what it will be spitting out, so I wouldn't be hinting too strongly that reworking Standard cars is a load of unnecessary work because there are so few of them.

But while tracks are an essential ingredient for any racing game, and the more the merrier, the cars are the stars. I am in harmony with Tony Coles of Eurogamer:

It may be borrowing from previous versions but Gran Turismo 5's car catalogue never feels like a collection of tick-box branding exercises and more a rolling work in progress. It feels like a luxurious love letter to the automotive phenomenon. It's a set of must-drives, highlighting cars that would-be racers should love and learn to master as an induction into collecting and racing for real. I know I desperately want something as insane and cool (and attainable) as a Mini Marcos in my real-world parking spot.

Which the Marcos is a Standard, by the way, and one of the cars I'd love to see be able to run through the Race Mod process.

I know that GT7 will be a new ballgame, and the Premium cars and tracks may make the Standards stick out even more like sore thumbs. To some of us. Well, we will all have plenty of time to decide whether or not GT7 will be worth it. I don't care what anyone else's opinion is, I'm pre-ordering, because my happiness is more important to me than yours. One would think anyhow.

 

[gt362gamer]

I have got a better idea just leave them in the car dealership because the cars are not hurting anybody or anything being in there. 👍

God...

do you want more cars? Would you like to have ps1 cars?

Guys, do you realise what are you saying?

Would you like to pay 60 bucks in gta 6 to get a ps4 game but with vice city quality cars? .....

BTW, the ps2 quality cars are hurting my eyes when i play in my hd tv and im forced to get involved in races with these ps2 models...

 

[Convergent]

God...

do you want more cars? Would you like to have ps1 cars?

Guys, do you realise what are you saying?

Would you like to pay 60 bucks in gta 6 to get a ps4 game but with vice city quality cars? .....

BTW, the ps2 quality cars are hurting my eyes when i play in my hd tv and im forced to get involved in races with these ps2 models...

Then don't drive the standard cars...

 

[gt362gamer]

Then don't drive the standard cars...

both Ai and real drivers in online are able to use standard cars, and its very usual to get involved in a race with ps2 cars. So, yes, its ridiculous now, and it will be in gt7, even more...

 

[CBH]

God...


BTW, the ps2 quality cars are hurting my eyes when i play in my hd tv and im forced to get involved in races with these ps2 models...

I don't have any problems with my eyes playing the game and my TV is HD and I use the a lot of standard cars and are very good in HD and I use the cars in races as well with no problem what so ever. And if you are having problems with your eyes I suggest you to see and eye doctor or perhaps change your settings on your TV to suit you eyes.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't have any problems with my eyes playing the game and my TV is HD and I use the a lot of standard cars and are very good in HD and I use the cars in races as well with no problem what so ever. And if you are having problems with your eyes I suggest you to see and eye doctor or perhaps change your settings on your TV to suit you eyes.

If you think a lot of the standard cars built for 480i look good on a 1080P television, it's probably you that needs your eyes checked. They don't look that hot on a 55 to me. But of course you're probably referring to the 1-2% if cars that were upgraded in the 3 years between GT5 and GT6.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

If you're not happy with the standard cars as they are now, you won't be any happier if the cars themselves are removed from GT7.

 

[CBH]

If you think a lot of the standard cars built for 480i look good on a 1080P television, it's probably you that needs your eyes checked. They don't look that hot on a 55 to me. But of course you're probably referring to the 1-2% if cars that were upgraded in the 3 years between GT5 and GT6.

My eyes are very good for a 50 year old and I also have got a big TV and I have no problems with any standard cars.
And I have stated this a number of times about standard cars just leave them in the dealership because the cars are not hurting anybody or anything being in there.

 

[Tornado]

the

cars

are

not

hurting

anybody

or

anything

I was one short.

 

[Convergent]

both Ai and real drivers in online are able to use standard cars, and its very usual to get involved in a race with ps2 cars. So, yes, its ridiculous now, and it will be in gt7, even more...

Then don't buy GT7.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I thought I'd respond to stuff when I have some actual yime, and things which could actually be considered a conversation.

Ah, starting with the ol' dodge.

I really wouldn't bet on that. It took a few weeks to make a car from scratch back then. Modifying one into a race car... maybe a few days. I think a day is highly optimistic, but that's up to speculation.

I am well aware. As above with the mod thing.

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=157278 - But just in case, because I know how you like to avoid reading anything that might not line up with your opinion:

In GT and GT2, both for PS1, a designer spent a day to model a car. In GT3 and GT4, for PS2, the same worker spent a month modeling the same care due to the increased amount of polygons. In GT5 for PS3, they require 6 months to do the same job.

...and that's from Kaz himself.

Well, this is your opinion, but I personally don't share it. Unless I'm mistaken, the quality of the textures/skins is defined by the artist at their creation, and at the time of many of the Standard car's creation, the highest displayable resolution of NTSC TVs was 480i.

It is defined by the artist, yes. And since Standards use textures in place of proper multi-piece modeling to simulate things like shut lines, or door handles, PD would need to deal with that for livery creation. It's entirely possible they have them as some sort of layered file right as I type this, and if a livery editor were to be created, players wouldn't see any of these drawn on details, as they'd only be applied after the livery creation. Of course, they'd still be low-res, unless PD went through and updated every untouched Standard before GT7's release.

So, again, they might offer a livery editor, but it'd be a fair chunk of work, would require a different approach than one for the Premiums (you know, the assets that actually measure up to the standards of the genre), and would still have to showcase some of the untouched PS2 assets. On a PS4.

I can't break down the fundamental differences required for a livery editor between Standards and Premiums any more. I feel comfortable stating that even if a livery editor does come to GT7 - and at this rate, I'm skeptical of any - I bet money it won't work with all cars. If "all cars" includes carryover PS2 assets, still.

While I'm aware that you consider all the Standards to be unacceptably ugly,

Don't forget woefully under-featured.

I find the majority of them to be entirely serviceable and would love to see not just Race Mod versions of them, but liveries plastered all over them.

Is that what you'd want for PS4's star racing game? To be described as "serviceable"?

Especially since the Livery Editor is going to define the definition of the textures applied.

And, as already stated, unless PD fixes the low-res shut lines - or hilariously allows users to draw them, or design right over them - a texture definition alone won't fix anything.

I've never posted that I expect all Standard cars to be brought up to the quality level of the sub-Premiums at GT7's launch.

Since it won't happen, that's probably for the best.

What I have said is that I want all the race cars brought up to Premium level, and being reworking those Standards into Premium and sub-Premium level which are the most suited to racing, giving priority to doable league oriented race stables, and then whatever Kaz feels would be appropriate.

That's an odd approach; praise GT for its "everyday car"-ness, then hope they focus primarily on race cars to be brought up to current standards.

Now before you begin schooling me on how foolish I am, let me reiterate a few facts.

• Many race cars are duplicates in both Premium and Standard form, such as the Ford GT race cars, the Supra race cars, the NSXs, etc.
• Many race friendly sports and supercars have Premium versions which would be easier to modify into race cars than starting from scratch, such as the Aston Martins, BMWs, Jaguars, Ferraris, Lamborginis, RX7s, Miatas, etc.
• The logistics of modeling would mean more sub-Premium cars finished in the time it takes to model Premium cars from scratch, more street cars, more race cars.
• Liveries can be whipped up fastest of all, a race car livery every day, or three with something very complex.

• Just as many aren't - Group C racers, LMP's, etc. Focusing on the duplicates like the Ford GT race cars - oh, imaginary cars to boot - means they'd be making more Premium duplicates. The 30-odd Miatas don't all need to be Premium; cars that have no Premium equivalent, or even anything close, like the Spyker, would bring more diversity.
• As just one example, the DBR(S)9 is still a fair amount different than the roadgoing DB9. Though it probably would still benefit them to work from the existing model. Of course, judging by the whole Mazda6 hilarity, you probably think a road-going Ford Fusion can be made out of the existing NASCAR one.
• Are you suggesting that PD abandon the entire concept of Premiums?
• ...or they could just give us a livery editor.
  [/QUOTE]
  
  

  But while tracks are an essential ingredient for any racing game, and the more the merrier, the cars are the stars. I am in harmony with Tony Coles of Eurogamer:
  
  

  It may be borrowing from previous versions but Gran Turismo 5's car catalogue never feels like a collection of tick-box branding exercises and more a rolling work in progress. It feels like a luxurious love letter to the automotive phenomenon. It's a set of must-drives, highlighting cars that would-be racers should love and learn to master as an induction into collecting and racing for real. I know I desperately want something as insane and cool (and attainable) as a Mini Marcos in my real-world parking spot.

  
  Which the Marcos is a Standard, by the way, and one of the cars I'd love to see be able to run through the Race Mod process.

  
  Heh, there's more Carrera GT's in the world than Mini Marcos, so "attainable" is an interesting way for him to describe the Marcos. But if the countless duplicates, imaginary cars, and now, the "each new colour is a new car" approach doesn't feel like ticking boxes to people, well, excellent. I suppose GT6 really has 15,000 cars, technically.
  
  

  I know that GT7 will be a new ballgame, and the Premium cars and tracks may make the Standards stick out even more like sore thumbs. To some of us.

  
  They'll stand out to nearly anybody. The difference here is if one is willing to accept it.
  
  

  I don't care what anyone else's opinion is, I'm pre-ordering, because my happiness is more important to me than yours. One would think anyhow.

  
  Well gee, you don't say!

 

[1241Penguin]

I have got a better idea just leave them in the car dealership because the cars are not hurting anybody or anything being in there. 👍

Hello? Is there an echo in here?

Then don't drive the standard cars...

Congratulations on ignoring everything that has been said in the thread.

I don't have any problems with my eyes playing the game and my TV is HD and I use the a lot of standard cars and are very good in HD and I use the cars in races as well with no problem what so ever. And if you are having problems with your eyes I suggest you to see and eye doctor or perhaps change your settings on your TV to suit you eyes.

 

[CBH]

Hello? Is there an echo in here?

Just leave them in the car dealership because the cars are not hurting anybody or anything being in there.

 

[Tornado]

Interesting. Tell us more.

 

[CBH]

Interesting. Tell us more.

Please leave them in the car dealership because the cars are not hurting anybody or anything being in there 👍.