World Super GT Championship Season 3 Discussion

[Wardez]

Here's the link to the main thread:

http://bit.ly/wsgtcmain

We're currently half way through our second season. The third season's start date is yet to be determined but it would be sometime early winter.

The races for season two start on Friday @ 4:00pm EDT.

This might change for season three though.

 

[Wardez]

Another idea that I'd really love to see is homologating other RM cars into the series making the way for privateer teams to join the series. It would give us that next step of legitness.

I really don't get why it's a taboo thing. We would obviously need to test it first, but here's the RM cars that I think would work for it:
GT500-
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6) RM '06
Lexus IS F RM '07 (might need a lot of work to get it up to pace though)

GT300 -
Nissan SILVIA spec-R AERO (S15) RM '02 [ 278hp 1000kg 492pp]
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STI spec C Type RA RM '05 [318 HP 1065 kg 518pp]
Lotus Elise 111R RM '04 [213hp 720kg 521pp] (might need to ballast it up quite a bit)




That way we get two solid new options in the GT500 side and we can extend our GT300 selection base to put it closer up to par with the already good GT500 field.
Thoughts?

 

[Adam41]

May I ask why we've gone back to 5 mixed, 5 same class races again? And please don't throw out Fuji, it's one of my favourite tracks.

About RM GT300 cars, don't they have a lot less downforce than normal GT300 cars? Which would mean they would be superior on the straights and poor in the corners.

 

[Denilson]

Another idea that I'd really love to see is homologating other RM cars into the series making the way for privateer teams to join the series. It would give us that next step of legitness.

I really don't get why it's a taboo thing. We would obviously need to test it first, but here's the RM cars that I think would work for it:
GT500-
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6) RM '06
Lexus IS F RM '07 (might need a lot of work to get it up to pace though)

GT300 -
Nissan SILVIA spec-R AERO (S15) RM '02 [ 278hp 1000kg 492pp]
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STI spec C Type RA RM '05 [318 HP 1065 kg 518pp]
Lotus Elise 111R RM '04 [213hp 720kg 521pp] (might need to ballast it up quite a bit)




That way we get two solid new options in the GT500 side and we can extend our GT300 selection base to put it closer up to par with the already good GT500 field.
Thoughts?

I'm all for letting some RM's in. But not to the GT500 class. The selection is good enough as it is.
If the interst is big enough, and we need to get more cars (If we still stick to the 2 car/livery rule), I'm perfectly fine with tadding the mentioned cars. 👍
We should defenetly put down some time to make the GT300 selection a bit more diverse, that's for sure. If we could add those 3 cars you mentioned, we would have 12 different cars (If we'll use the Std RX7).

May I ask why we've gone back to 5 mixed, 5 same class races again? And please don't throw out Fuji, it's one of my favourite tracks.

About RM GT300 cars, don't they have a lot less downforce than normal GT300 cars? Which would mean they would be superior on the straights and poor in the corners.

It's just a suggestion for now. This thread is all about discussion. PLease have your say, and throw in a reason or 2 as well.

I think that the RM's got similar aero as the GT300's. But as you say, if a RM car got less aero, then it will probably be a fast car down the straights (SUPRA YELLOWHAT).

Same thing about Fuji, not final, just a discussion. And by reading Masi and Wardez thoughts, Fuji will most likely stay on the schedule.

 

[Müle]

I hate Fuji. Ugly Tilke crap.

Keep Daytona!

 

[Masi_23]

Correct me if im wrong, so for the next race D1 participants for the qualifying will be the D1 1st-6th finishers and D2 1st & 2nd finishers of the previous race (total of eight drivers); and D2 participants for the qualifying will be D1 7th & 8th finishers and D2 3rd-8th finishers of the previous race. In the event that somebody in D1 is unable to participate on race day, D2 qualifiers will move up to D1 (and subsequently D3 to D2).

Correct. Although it still needs a tweak. Pertaining to absences... I'm thinking; each driver has 2 drops for the whole season. We'll call this 'Race Pass'. You can use this at any point in the season to save your Divisional status for the next race. Not using one will drop you to a lower division.

Another idea that I'd really love to see is homologating other RM cars into the series making the way for privateer teams to join the series. It would give us that next step of legitness.

I really don't get why it's a taboo thing. We would obviously need to test it first, but here's the RM cars that I think would work for it:
GT500-
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6) RM '06
Lexus IS F RM '07 (might need a lot of work to get it up to pace though)

GT300 -
Nissan SILVIA spec-R AERO (S15) RM '02 [ 278hp 1000kg 492pp]
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STI spec C Type RA RM '05 [318 HP 1065 kg 518pp]
Lotus Elise 111R RM '04 [213hp 720kg 521pp] (might need to ballast it up quite a bit)

That way we get two solid new options in the GT500 side and we can extend our GT300 selection base to put it closer up to par with the already good GT500 field.
Thoughts?

Tested a couple of these and they do have far superior top speeds compared to the GT cars.

I think the GT500 selection should stay the way it is, but if we want more variation (atleast with the liveries) we can open up the banned cars (ie. Epson and Woodone)?

The GT300 needs more help in this department. I'm thinking of testing the drift cars (the RX7 and the S2000) but i'm almost positive i'll get the same results as the RM's. Maybe downtuning JGTC GT500 cars?

May I ask why we've gone back to 5 mixed, 5 same class races again? And please don't throw out Fuji, it's one of my favourite tracks.

Some prefer mixed class racing, some prefer single class. Half and half is a good compromise.

I'm all for letting some RM's in. But not to the GT500 class. The selection is good enough as it is.
If the interst is big enough, and we need to get more cars (If we still stick to the 2 car/livery rule), I'm perfectly fine with tadding the mentioned cars. 👍
We should defenetly put down some time to make the GT300 selection a bit more diverse, that's for sure. If we could add those 3 cars you mentioned, we would have 12 different cars (If we'll use the Std RX7).



It's just a suggestion for now. This thread is all about discussion. PLease have your say, and throw in a reason or 2 as well.

I think that the RM's got similar aero as the GT300's. But as you say, if a RM car got less aero, then it will probably be a fast car down the straights (SUPRA YELLOWHAT).

Same thing about Fuji, not final, just a discussion. And by reading Masi and Wardez thoughts, Fuji will most likely stay on the schedule.

I agree. The GT500 car selection should be good enough. GT300 needs some help as evident with the sub-par turnouts so far. Like i said before, we could possibly test old JGTC cars and downtune them to GT300 specs.

 

[NEPALII]

I got a few ideas. Some of you may not like it as it may sound stupid, but they were used in a Toyota Carina E Trophy in Portugal. The fastest 4 on qualifying receive points(1st - 4 points, 2nd - 3 points, 3rd - 2 points and 4th 1 - point). Then these 4 places are picked one by one for the qualy grid(like picking numbers for a lottery). The host or somebody out of the championship could do it. So you qualify 4th but might start 1st. However, since there are extra points for 4 top qualy spots, drivers will still fight to get the pole.

Another thing from this trophy, but might take a lot of work is to award extra points for leading at a certain lap. You may receive 1 or more points for leading at lap 10, or any other lap. So like this, drivers will fight more for the lead, instead of just staying back and get the draft and only attack on the last laps. There will be more overtaking.

There were other rules on the Trophy but I forgot. It was a very competitive trophy, very close and exciting racing. I miss those times. I believe there are some videos on youtube of this trophy.

 

[Masi_23]

I don't like the idea about giving out points to the top qualifiers as not all drivers are great at qualifying. Although if we do add ballast in qualifying, it can be viable. The lottery thing seems to be just more work, but the idea about gaining points for leading a certain lap sounds great. Possibly the midway point would (Lap 5 of a 10 lap race)

 

[NEPALII]

That's the problem with my ideas, its a lot of work. Ballast could probably make things more interesting on qualifying. The extra points for leading a lap doesnt have to be on half of the race, it could be at any lap.

 

[IforceV8]

Since i was bored and had too much free time i went looking for cars that would fit into a expanded category of GT300 cars.Since all current GT300 cars have down force levels of 35-60 i thought that should be the #1 requirement.

These cars all fit into that group.

Acura NSX RM-New HP w/oil-ecu-all intake and exhaust parts 355 HP and weight 1045 kg.Ballast can be used to find the right pace.The only big problem with the car is its only a 5 speed.

Z06-RM- 1090 kg With no engine parts added the reduced power band isnt terrible.Ballast can be added if needed.A Z06-R is running in the 2011 Super GT championship.

TVR Speed 6 RM-Might be too light at 1085 kg max w/ballast.



Real race cars.All 35-60 DF.I left out the older Skyline's and Supra's because their turbo engines will have a terrible power band limited.

Takata Dome NSX '03. If the games description is true then this car should be closer aero wise to the GT300's than the older NSX's.Its heavy at 1170 kg but the reduced power band isnt bad.

BMW M3 GTR-1120 kg and reduced power band ok.

Lexus SC430 Bandai Direzza '06

Woodone Supra '03

FTO super touring car-Will need ballast.stock weight 980 kg.

 

[Masi_23]

I wouldn't like having RM cars as it would just be far inferior to the Super GT's handling wise but opposite when it comes to straight speeds because of the reduced aero. (although these are only assumptions - im all for testing).


Anyway, found some other cars that can be put up into consideration:

S Honda S2000 LM Race Car
S Mazda RX-7 LM Race Car (Already have this - yet to be tested)
S Mazda RX-8 Concept LM Race Car
S Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car
S Nissan Fairlady Z Concept LM Race Car

Have yet to find all of them (other than the RX-7) in the UCD but ill test them once available.​

 

[Paginas1]

I agree about the RM, i think they just wont fit in the the supergt cars, but if there are more standard cars which masi has pointed out that could fit in then yes can try.

Are the old SuperGT cars out of the question?

I know the old NSX cars are super easy to drive than the new 1s

 

[Masi_23]

Well, the old Super GT cars (JGTC) would look a bit weird once they're on the grid. The LM cars i mentioned looks like they belong in GT300 class with their smaller, less wider platforms (Other than the Fairlady Z - maybe we can include this to GT500 ).

 

[NEPALII]

Maybe PD will release a Super GT 2010 or 2011 DLC for GT5. We could include those. I know Im dreaming too much but its not a bad thing is it?

 

[Masi_23]

Not at all i would love to have more variety in GT300. The Lambos and Ferraris woulbe be great. Oh, and the awesome looking mooncraft

Too bad about Porsche 👎

p.s. Should i move this to the racing series section? Need more feedback.

 

[Wardez]

Ah, nah Masi, it should be kept here. Just keep linking to it I guess. The talk'll pick up as we go though.


And about the RM's, they have the same amount of downforce as the GT300s.

And we raced the Lotus 111R RM on racing hard tires @ 264hp for a six week championships going to a bunch of tracks that WSGTC visits. Our times were about the same as the best GT300 times and with just a little bit more power, they'd be equal to them. It actually handles better than most GT300 cars we have currently. Here's a link to the qualifying registry for the series: http://bit.ly/e1cqualifying

Hmm, the Lotus is actually a lot faster on most tracks when comparing pole times. I think all we'd need to do to is ballast it up 'cause right now it's a feather. Then it should be right on spec.

What I like about opening up privateer teams with the Lotus, Silvia and Subaru is that teams can be made up with real life, although not actually sponsoring, sponsors. So anyone using a privateer car will need to come up with a legitimate sponsor and color theme they'd be using.

 

[IforceV8]

I wouldn't like having RM cars as it would just be far inferior to the Super GT's handling wise but opposite when it comes to straight speeds because of the reduced aero. (although these are only assumptions - im all for testing).


Anyway, found some other cars that can be put up into consideration:

S Honda S2000 LM Race Car
S Mazda RX-7 LM Race Car (Already have this - yet to be tested)
S Mazda RX-8 Concept LM Race Car
S Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car
S Nissan Fairlady Z Concept LM Race Car

Have yet to find all of them (other than the RX-7) in the UCD but ill test them once available.​

The only 2 that fit the 35-60 downforce spec are the Mazda's.The S2000 only has 20-50 and the Z's are 50-70.

One other car you could add to that list is a NSX-R prototype LM,it is also a 35-60 df car.

 

[Masi_23]

Early testing by me (with 3 beers in my system if i may add ).


GT300 Class - Car Homologation

Acceleration/Straight speed testing | Measured at two points | Speeds from multiple fly-bys.

WSGTC Spec Cars:

Subaru Cusco - 144 mph | 151 mph
Lexus IS350 - 142 mph | 149 mph
Arta Garaiya 08 - No data
RX7 Amemiya - No data
Subaru Advan - No data
Wedsport Celica - No data
Arta Garaiya 03 - No data
RX7 Amemiya 03 - No data
Apex MRS - No data​

Under Consideration:

RX7 LM Race Car - (Power Limit - 62.5% | HP - 328 | Stock Weight) - 144/150
RX8 LM Concept LM Race Car - No data
Honda S2000 LM Race Car - No data
Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car - No data
Spoon S2000 Race Car - No data
Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT-1 - No data
BMW M3 GTR Race Car 01 - No data
Any RM Cars - No data​

Short Course testing | Cape Ring inside | 5 lap average.

WSGTC Spec Cars:

Subaru Cusco - 50.6xx
Lexus IS350 - 51.2xx
Arta Garaiya 08 - No data
RX7 Amemiya - No data
Subaru Advan - No data
Wedsport Celica - No data
Arta Garaiya 03 - No data
RX7 Amemiya 03 - No data
Apex MRS - No data​

Under Consideration:

RX7 LM Race Car - (Power Limit - 62.5% | HP - 328 | Stock Weight) - 51.2xx
RX8 LM Concept LM Race Car - No data
Honda S2000 LM Race Car - No data
Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car - No data
Spoon S2000 Race Car - No data
Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT-1 - No data
BMW M3 GTR Race Car 01 - No data
Any RM Cars - No data​

Long Course testing | At Nurburgring GP-F | 5 lap average.

WSGTC Spec Cars:

Subaru Cusco - No data
Lexus IS350 - No data
Arta Garaiya 08 - No data
RX7 Amemiya - No data
Subaru Advan - No data
Wedsport Celica - No data
Arta Garaiya 03 - No data
RX7 Amemiya 03 - No data
Apex MRS - No data​

Under Consideration:

RX7 LM Race Car - (Power Limit - 62.5% | HP - 328 | Stock Weight) - No data
RX8 LM Concept LM Race Car - No data
Honda S2000 LM Race Car - No data
Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car - No data
Spoon S2000 Race Car - No data
Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT-1 - No data
BMW M3 GTR Race Car 01 - No data
Any RM Cars - No data​

 

[HortusIX]

Just thought I'd add some of my thoughts to the mix. Hope that's OK.

Well, some people really prefer one from the other (I prefer the slower speeds of GT300) so i think its going to be a hard sell.

Idea:
We'll have an order of picking cars. Slowest times get to pick cars first.

Grand Valley is nice, but imo, we stay with real life tracks.

I don't personally like that way of choosing who gets to drive what car - what's stopping me from driving really slow to ensure I get first dibs?

How about a system which, firstly, favours those who have already dedicated umpteen hours to the league in previous seasons...

1. Cars are assigned a number, 1 to (however many cars are made available)

2. The last digit from each driver's points haul from the previous season is used to assign each driver a car e.g. chorda gets 453 pts so his number is 3, Kamy gets 389 pts so his number is 9.

3. chorda would drive the car which has the number 3 assigned to it and Kamy would driver the car which has the number 9 assigned to it.
It should be a simple process and, above all, a random (= fair) one too.

4. The remaining drivers (new to the WSGTC) are assigned cars perhaps on a first-come-first-serve basis or a 3 lap super quali utilising the same process as above might be a fairer way of assigning the cars. This time, the total time is used instead of the points scored.

Tokyo is just about slipstream track. However grand valley is 1 and maybe the only fictonal track that is suited best for gt500. Its like suzuka in some ways (abit of everything), long straight, fast corners and some very slow corners

Tokyo sounds like a decent idea for an extra track 👍

I'm definitely in the same class for La Sarthe camp

I also love Monza, yes it's a drafting track but because of that it offers and requires a different style of racing and racecraft and besides that it's no more of a drafting track than La Sarthe. There's just something not right about omitting somewhere like Monza especially when there's talk of introducing a fictional track.

Daytona Road is another track I enjoy and would be sorry to see go, especially if it was replaced with a fictional track.

That brings me onto the fictional tracks, I don't dislike them but there's not much I would choose above a real life track for a championship such as ours. Grand Valley Speedway is one, have done a number of gt500 races there and I think it's a fantastic track that has everything and provides great racing.

I wouldn't be against introducing somewhere like Tokyo but only as an addition as opposed to it replacing something else.

I also think same class at la Sarthe is a good idea. I understand that, because it's one of the season's gems, some would want a mixed class event but unless you've got a really tight field of drivers it's easy for it to become a procession as opposed to a race.

I'm all for Monza as well. OK, so I was involved in an incident there that wrecked my chances of a podium, but I like the track alot. I think that a mixed class event could work there. Most parts of the track are wide enough to accomodate two, if not, three cars driving alongside each other (some of the GT300 pictures taken by Masi from Season 1 preseason are testament to that) and the long straight sections should mean the GT500s can pass relatively unobstructed.

Can we all agree that we should leave out Monza next season? Unless the draft is fixed, i don't think we should come back to that venue. Ever.

My Proposal:

1. Fuji - Mixed Class
2. Circuit de la Sarthe - Same Class
3. Tsukuba - Mixed Class
4. Nurburgring GP/F - Same Class
5. Laguna Seca - Mixed Class

6. Off-Week Spot Race Special Event

7. Suzuka - Same Class
8. Daytona Road - Mixed Class
9. Monaco - Same Class
10. Indy Road - Mixed Class
11. Nurburgring 24 Hours - Same Class

12. Off-Week Spot Race Special Event

13. Final Shootout! (Suzuka?)
[/B]

I'm afraid not Masi, sorry

Only thing I'd say about shortening the races is to make sure we don't lose the different tyre strategies, ending up in a situation where 1 stoppers are a no brainer would be a backwards step imo

I'm happy with the current race distance. If anything, I'd like to see longer races... perhaps 200km for the standard lengths and 350km for the enduros.
We're men aren't we?

May I ask why we've gone back to 5 mixed, 5 same class races again? And please don't throw out Fuji, it's one of my favourite tracks.

About RM GT300 cars, don't they have a lot less downforce than normal GT300 cars? Which would mean they would be superior on the straights and poor in the corners.

Yeh - please keep Fuji. I like it also.

I'm not a fan of the idea of RM cars being allowed into the mix. I'm sure there are plenty of other GT300 contenders that could bulk out the selection.
How about using some of the older, standard vehicles?
Cars like the C-WEST RAZO Silvia '01, the Integra Type R Touring Car and the Altezza Touring Car spring to mind.

 

[KamyKaze1098]

I really think the selection we have so far plus the Standard RX 7 is enough.
But since you're looking for more cars...

Is there any GT 500 car we're not using??
If so would a downgrade to that car be a better option??

 

[Masi_23]

It wouldn't look right with the wider platform, but the old GT500 JGTC cars are pretty similar to the current GT300s, so those can be considered.

 

[KamyKaze1098]

It wouldn't look right with the wider platform, but the old GT500 JGTC cars are pretty similar to the current GT300s, so those can be considered.

Lol. Every other car being considered suffer from the same thing.

 

[Masi_23]

Lol. Every other car being considered suffer from the same thing.

What do you mean?

 

[KamyKaze1098]

I mean RM cars and the LM ones specially look nothing alike the GT 300.

Old JGTC cars will probably be the best bet.

I'll look into my garage and see what I got. I know I have a lot of them. If needed I can start duping them. I'll send you one in each day.

 

[Masi_23]

Well, you mentioned downtuning GT500 cars and assumed it was the premiums, correct? That's why i said they look wide compared to the current GT300's so it wouldnt look right.

The S2ks and the RX7 are small 2 door coupes so they look like they belong in GT300 The RX8 LM car and the Nismo, ive still yet to see so ill reserve my judgement with those. The Diablo meanwhile is just a bit wide as it is an old GT500 car, but still smaller than the current premiums.

The RM cars are a last resort, but i doubt they will be included.

 

[Masi_23]

Offences - any breach of rules in observation of Racing Code.
Safety Rating - rating given to a driver based on his Racing Conduct. A max safety rating is 5.00 while the least is 1.00.
License Class - In descending order

A Class
B Class
C Class
D Class
Rookie Class

Rookie Class - Must participate in 4 races while maintaining 3.00 Safety Rating.
Promotion - maintaining a Safety Rating of 4.50 and above for 4 races. Will have to pass through steward deliberation.
Demotion - maintaining a Safety Rating of below 2.00 for 4 races. Will have to pass through steward deliberation.​

​

 

[Denilson]

It's an awesome thing Masi.

Only big problem I see is to keep track of everything.

We started out last season with a rep-system, but scrapped it 3 rounds in because it was a lot of work to maintain that extra schedule. So we decided that it was to much work for practicly nothing.

But if you can make it work in an efficient way, without it taking to much time, it's a nice feature.

Really interested to see what you'll come up with regarding the Licence tests.

 

[Masi_23]

If i was available at the time, i think we could've maintained the rep system. My fault with that. You were the only one doing the admin work for the most part. Now we have 3 Maybe add another willing participant? I nominate HortusIX.

Also, i added something about the 'License'

Not sure about 'License Testing' though. I was thinking that we should calculate all the races attended by current drivers - then we'll come up with ratings and go from there. Remy and Andy for sure are already Class A's but safety ratings will restart to 3.0 by the time the season starts.


I'll be implementing SR and LC in the V8 series. Should be easier since it's only 1 grid.

 

[Denilson]

Ok. I'm not sure exactly how yout think this licence thing is going to work out / be calculated.. How come Remy_K and Andy (Andil or Aderrrm?) are Class A? What do tou base that on?

I'm just not sure I follow your ideas.. Perhaps I'm a bit slow atm.. 3.30 AM here now.. and at work.. burried in papers... 👎

 

[Masi_23]

I'm just basing it off the fact that they won the championships last season but we can all reset to class D (since we all have experience with at least 4 starts). And from that point on, class will carry to the next seasons to come. Meanwhile, newbies will always be tagged as rookies. Even if they have experience in other GTP leagues. Only WSGTC/WV8SC/WGTS will count.

We can still have Divisional Ratings and Divisional Championships in tandem with this rating system. So basically, Safety Rating and the License Class system will give you a good idea within a few seconds of who you're dealing with, how fast he is, and if he is clean or not. If done and sustained properly, the rep of WSGTC will skyrocket. I'll be implementing this on the other sister series' (WV8SC and WGTS) as well.

p.s. Are you guys grabbing F1 2011? I would definitely get one at launch. I think an F1 series is in the making here, aye?