World Super GT Championship Season 3 Discussion

[OwensRacing]

Anyone up for some Practice. Possible Qualfying.

If so I will open a room or if you do post number. I will keep an eye on the thread.

 

[Masi_23]

On another note!

About car selection next season. Wardez has proposed an idea about customer cars - here's a a version i've thought about (of which i'm using for WRC).

Car Classes:

Primary Class - for committed drivers only
Promotions Class - for newly signed up drivers and part-time (unsure) drivers.

Q: What if a driver from a Primary Class car quits during the season?
A: The top performing driver in the promotions class will be eligible for, well, a promotion.

Q: What if that driver wants to stay in his car?
A: The next top performer gets dibs, so on and so forth.​

Aderrrm: About the ballast system, here's what I think. It doesn't work as well as it should now. I have no idea why you lot are against using ballast for qualifying because guess what, the faster guys always end up qualifying at the front. That means, even with their ballast, they have a clear road in front of them meaning they can use the optimum strategy and run away from trouble e.g. a turn 1 crash mid-pack.

I've been suggesting this numerous times. I infinity the motion.

Aderrrm: About Masi's proposed ballast system: I don't really like the thought of starting off with 50kg and some drivers losing weight. It will take much longer to implement and do checks for. Plus, I'm not sure why all of the bottom end drivers who come 14th, 15th, 16th etc get -20kg. Drivers who finish in them positions, sadly, will hardly ever get a D1 win. That means all of them bottom end drivers were racing with 50kg ballast, and now they're all racing with 30kg. You might say, well they'll compete better against the drivers who are further up the standings! Well, let's have a look... like I said before, they'll never be competing against D1 winners. Maybe they'll do better against people who are in 9th and 10th position! Oh wait, they get -20kg ballast too. You're creating more work for yourselves than you need to in my opinion.

Having 20kg taken off from 9th-on-down is straight out of real life Super GT regulations. The wide ballast doesn't necessarily mean anyone can win (seeing as we still have a wide gap in terms of skills, specially in GT300), the point is - closing the gap as much as possible - racing would be more exciting all throughout the grid, specially for same class races (which will be 50% of the schedule).

Yes, it's more work but i think that's a sacrifice worth having if we can have more exciting races. Also, i don't think it would be that substantial as it may seem. We can slim down the time by having better discipline during PP checks (ie. No chatting when Pre-race checks commences - in other words, please ST:censored:U, pay attention at all times, and have your PP set hours ahead before the race). Also, we should make keyboards mandatory for hosts to hasten up typing - shouldn't be hard.

 

[Adam41]

(seeing as we still have a wide gap in terms of skills, specially in GT300), the point is - closing the gap as much as possible.

Well, that's kinda my point. There's such a large gap between 14th (bottom of D2) and say 7th (bottom of D1), there's no real point in even trying to close that gap up. But, let's look at what would happen. 14th would get -20kg and 7th would get -10kg. If you ask me all of that was not worth a 10kg difference. Even if 14th and 7th had similar pace, 10kg is insignificant. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

We can slim down the time by having better discipline during PP checks (ie. No chatting when Pre-race checks commences - in other words, please ST:censored:U, pay attention at all times, and have your PP set hours ahead before the race). Also, we should make keyboards mandatory for hosts to hasten up typing - shouldn't be hard.

We need to do this anyway! It will make sure we start on time and less time will be lost if we have to restart the race due to blackscreening etc.

 

[Scanny_Flick]

Just been reading up on everything guys, need to digest everything but a couple of things jump out straight way;

Ballast: I think the system we have is a good but imo ballast NEEDS to be applied for qualifying to get the most out of it for reasons already outlined in this thread. In our environment of larger skill/dedication/application variation than you get in a professional real world scenario it would be impossible to develop a system that levels everything out 100% and we shouldn't waste time going round in circles making wholesale changes trying to achieve this. The purpose of the system should be to throw in a bit more competition down to a certain level, which we have already seen it does, it's up to the drivers to put the work in to get to a level where they start to see the benefits of the ballast system, this is the world championship after all 👍

Season Structure: Tricky one this is, personally it makes no difference to me, long or short I will always stay committed as I just love championship racing. Unfortunately I don't think it matters which way you go when discussing attracting and retaining entrants, committed drivers always stay (some may have a personal preference on a long or short schedule but I would say that it would only become a deal breaker for a committed driver if it was absolutely not possible for them to do one or the other). Sadly people like this are in the minority. Even more disappointing is the drivers that we see come and go for one or two races, its not down to schedule structure, it's mostly down to short attention spans and not being able to win or not being competitive straight away and not being willing/able to put in the necessary effort to improve. Yes we have had a few guys that have had to leave us due to schedule conflicts but these aren't the 1 or 2 race wonders, they are drivers who had been committed but their personal situations have since changed. This will always happen as you can never cater for everyone.

Dropping Rounds (Points): imo all points scored (including bonus points) should be dropped when dropped rounds are calculated. The purpose of having to drop the scores for 2 or 3 races from a championship is to help out those who can't attend every single round, which to be fair is most of us. If any amount of bonus points are allowed to be kept from dropped races then those who have to drop races due to not being able to attend (the people who the rule is there for) are at a massive disadvantage to those who are fortunate enough to be only dropping their worst scores. Let's apply the rule to help the people it was implemented for. You drop a round you drop all points associated with that round!

Better get back to work now

 

[Paginas1]

Ballast: I think the system we have is a good but imo ballast NEEDS to be applied for qualifying to get the most out of it for reasons already outlined in this thread. In our environment of larger skill/dedication/application variation than you get in a professional real world scenario it would be impossible to develop a system that levels everything out 100% and we shouldn't waste time going round in circles making wholesale changes trying to achieve this. The purpose of the system should be to throw in a bit more competition down to a certain level, which we have already seen it does, it's up to the drivers to put the work in to get to a level where they start to see the benefits of the ballast system, this is the world championship after all 👍


Dropping Rounds (Points): imo all points scored (including bonus points) should be dropped when dropped rounds are calculated. The purpose of having to drop the scores for 2 or 3 races from a championship is to help out those who can't attend every single round, which to be fair is most of us. If any amount of bonus points are allowed to be kept from dropped races then those who have to drop races due to not being able to attend (the people who the rule is there for) are at a massive disadvantage to those who are fortunate enough to be only dropping their worst scores. Let's apply the rule to help the people it was implemented for. You drop a round you drop all points associated with that round!

Better get back to work now

I totally agree with the ballest being used for qualifying, should make things real interesting when they have quite abit of ballast on their car, as we saw last race, remy and chorda where having big problems getting fast laps in....

Drop scores i also agree with scanny, it seems unfair for people to keep the 10 bonus points which all add up at end of season. They could have 30 points more than another person that had to miss 3 races

 

[KamyKaze1098]

Agree with the drop to the bonus points.
Also agree that only change to ballast should be using it in qually.
As for the schedule maybe a shorter but still every week one.

 

[CSLACR]

I think as long as ballast isn't carried for qualifying, it's effectiveness is minimized.
With mixed class races, only 7 guys have a shot at 7th or better, so it's going to be the same few guys unless ballast is carried for qualifying.

But I personally think "mixed class" races should go the way of dial-up internet, because even though it hasn't happened to me yet, qualifying 8th should never mean you can't possibly finish 7th. And obviously just counting race time would be unfair to those battling in D1 against possible front runners of D2.
So I think it should be separate classes all season long, just my two cents for now.

And I agree with shorter, less break schedules, keeps interest and participation up I think.

 

[Denilson]

I totally agree with the ballest being used for qualifying, should make things real interesting when they have quite abit of ballast on their car, as we saw last race, remy and chorda where having big problems getting fast laps in....

Drop scores i also agree with scanny, it seems unfair for people to keep the 10 bonus points which all add up at end of season. They could have 30 points more than another person that had to miss 3 races

I'm also down for quali with your ballast. 👍
But I really do think that we should keep the ballast system as a whole. Only tweak we perhaps could discuss is to have the same weights for both classes (20, 40, 60 kg)

Reason why we decided to keep the bonuspoints was because the drivers who actually race each week sould be awarded a bonus. What we did not take in to calculation was that we now drop 3 rounds, instead of 2, so the amount of points from dropped races increased from 20 to 30. And I totally agree that 30 points is a bit to much.
But I do want to let the drivers who race all races get a slight bonus.
Next season, we'll run a 10 round schedule, and will be able to drop 2 rounds. How about bonuspoints are reduced by 50 % from the dropped rounds? It will be a slight bonus for drivers who participate a lot, but it will not be a huge factor. Only ig two drivers are very close to eachother in the standings should be when the participation bonus should have an impact.

 

[Denilson]

- Firstly, it's just a personal preference. I personally don't like a very long season.
- A shorter season should keep people's attention at participating. As an example, a few of the GT300 drivers stated that it kinda went stale when we had the off-week and they forgot to even care about the next race.
- Please give an example if you don't mind.

I know where you're getting at, but we need more feedback from the others to be able to decide. My concern is this; initially we get a solid base of drivers, and as the season goes (a year long) people will drop out one by one, slowly - BUT! they do get replaced by new drivers... by season's end, we end up with a totally different grid (with the possibility of having a very long drivers table). At-least that's the way my speculation goes.

I want the quality, and the general level of the series to attract drivers and keep the participation numbers up. Not keep participation up with a hectic shedule, because we do not want drivers to forget about the series. If drivers forget, they are not interested enough (imo), and that shows when we notice that drivers do not read the OP, do not know rules, procedures and such. We try really hard to make drivers to stay updated and we demand that drivers read and fully understand the OP.

Long or short season, I'll go with both. Just trying to implement a different approach to how to keep participation up.

Either way, we should defently implement a qualifyer for new guys. By just signing up and gets thrown in to a race a few hours later can do a lot of damage to the race, and especially to the drivers who've fought all season for points.
By running a qualifyer for new guys, we'll make sure that the general level and cleanlyness is on par with the drivers already in the league.

 

[Masi_23]

👍

Can you write up the structure of your proposed longer season so i can paste it in the OP?



Also, i think the Divisional Qualifier should be scrapped, instead we'll do the Car Class/Category derived from Wardez' customer car idea in line with a mandatory qualifier.

Qualifier

- All drivers will do a mandatory qualifier.
- Drivers will be given 6 laps - top 4 laps will be taken.
- The average time of the top 4 laps will be your time.​

Car Class

Primary Class - for committed and fastest drivers from Qualifier only
Promotions Class - for newly signed up drivers and part-time (unsure) drivers (and overflow from preliminary qualifier before the season starts).

Q: What if a driver from a Primary Class car quits during the season?
A: The top performing driver in the promotions class will be eligible for, well, a promotion.

Q: What if that driver wants to stay in his car?
A: The next top performer gets dibs, so on and so forth.​

Laslty, about CSL's comment about mixed class cars... i kinda share the same sentiment, but i think we should only reduce it not remove it all together. I think 2-4 mixed races should be enough - 5 at the most?

I'll comment about the ballast in a bit.

 

[DragonGT83]

i would love to join you guys as i have followed your series for awhile and i love any gt cars, 300s 500s don't matter. but the time is just like a half hour to an hour too early for me as i get off work fridays right when your guys connection time is. if it was a half hour later i'd be more willing to join or i just might idk yet. don't know how i'd feel flying home from work and not being able to get on on time for the green.

 

[Denilson]

i would love to join you guys as i have followed your series for awhile and i love any gt cars, 300s 500s don't matter. but the time is just like a half hour to an hour too early for me as i get off work fridays right when your guys connection time is. if it was a half hour later i'd be more willing to join or i just might idk yet. don't know how i'd feel flying home from work and not being able to get on on time for the green.

I share the same issue some weeks.. What I do to make sure I can race is to post in the thread, AND PM the host for my race that I'll arrive around green flag time. I also set up my car in advance. Quali is never a peoblem since you can do your quali at any time during the week. There's always a capable host available.. Or almost all the time..

I don't know yet at exactly what times we will race next season. But I don't think it will be any major changes.. But stay tuned in this thread to get the latest news. 👍


Masi:
Proposed longer season schedule:
15 Rounds, 3 can be dropped.

Friday, March 9th.
Round 1. Heat 1. Suzuka, 150 km, no weather, same class.
Round 1. Heat 2. Suzuka, 35 km, no weather, same class, reversed grid, half points awarded in heat 2.

Friday, March 23rd.
Round 2. Nurburgring GP/F, 175 km, same class.

Friday, April 6th.
Round 3. Circuit De La Sarthe, 250 km, time / weather, same class.

Friday, April 20th.
Round 4. Heat 1. Tsukuba Circuit, 150 km, same class.
Round 4. Heat 2. Tsukuba Circuit, 35 km, same class, reversed grid, half points awarded in heat 2.

Friday, May 4th.
Round 5. Fuji F, 175 km, mixed class.

Friday, May 18th.
Round 6. Nurburgring 24h, 250 km, time / weather, same class.

Friday, June 1st.
Round 7. Monza, 175 km, weather, same class.

Friday, June 15th.
Round 8. Monaco, 175 km, same class.

Friday, August 3rd.
Round 9. Heat 1. Laguna Seca, 150 km, same class.
Round 9. Heat 2. Laguna Seca, 35 km, same class, reversed grid, half points awarded in Heat 2.

Friday, August 17th.
Round 10. Circuit De La Sarthe, 250 km, time / no weather, same class

Friday, August 31st.
Round 11. Indianapolis Road, 175 km, mixed class.

Friday, September 14th.
Round 12. Heat 1. Daytona Road, 150 km, same class.
Round 12. Heat 2. Daytona Road, 35 km, same class, reversed grid, half points awarded in Heat 2.

Friday, September 28th.
Round 13. Nurburgring 24h, time / no weather, mixed class.

Friday, October 12th.
Round 14. Monza, 175 km, no weather, mixed class.

Friday, October 26th.
Round 15. Suzuka, 350 km, weather, same class.

 

[DragonGT83]

well i do like the idea of new comers starting out in 300s or something and having to prove themselves on the track before jumping into 500s(think i had read it in a previous post). i'll keep watch on the series and most likely join when the time comes for season 3.

 

[Denilson]

well i do like the idea of new comers starting out in 300s or something and having to prove themselves on the track before jumping into 500s(think i had read it in a previous post). i'll keep watch on the series and most likely join when the time comes for season 3.

There's not going to be the new comers in GT300's and the faster veterans in GT500's. It will be totally optional (depending on if there's any cars left in the class ofc.) as always. 👍

Actually, some of the fastest drivers are in the GT300 class, and they've been here since pretty much day 1. Awesome guys as well. 👍

 

[CSLACR]

I share the same issue some weeks.. What I do to make sure I can race is to post in the thread, AND PM the host for my race that I'll arrive around green flag time. I also set up my car in advance. Quali is never a peoblem since you can do your quali at any time during the week. There's always a capable host available.. Or almost all the time..

I don't know yet at exactly what times we will race next season. But I don't think it will be any major changes.. But stay tuned in this thread to get the latest news. 👍


Masi:
Proposed longer season schedule:
15 Rounds, 3 can be dropped.

Friday, March 9th.
Round 1. Heat 1. Suzuka, 150 km, no weather, same class.
Round 1. Heat 2. Suzuka, 35 km, no weather, same class, reversed grid, half points awarded in heat 2.

Friday, March 23rd.
Round 2. Nurburgring GP/F, 175 km, same class.

Friday, April 6th.
Round 3. Circuit De La Sarthe, 250 km, time / weather, same class.

Friday, April 20th.
Round 4. Heat 1. Tsukuba Circuit, 150 km, same class.
Round 4. Heat 2. Tsukuba Circuit, 35 km, same class, reversed grid, half points awarded in heat 2.

Friday, May 4th.
Round 5. Fuji F, 175 km, mixed class.

Friday, May 18th.
Round 6. Nurburgring 24h, 250 km, time / weather, same class.

Friday, June 1st.
Round 7. Monza, 175 km, weather, same class.

Friday, June 15th.
Round 8. Monaco, 175 km, same class.

Friday, August 3rd.
Round 9. Heat 1. Laguna Seca, 150 km, same class.
Round 9. Heat 2. Laguna Seca, 35 km, same class, reversed grid, half points awarded in Heat 2.

Friday, August 17th.
Round 10. Circuit De La Sarthe, 250 km, time / no weather, same class

Friday, August 31st.
Round 11. Indianapolis Road, 175 km, mixed class.

Friday, September 14th.
Round 12. Heat 1. Daytona Road, 150 km, same class.
Round 12. Heat 2. Daytona Road, 35 km, same class, reversed grid, half points awarded in Heat 2.

Friday, September 28th.
Round 13. Nurburgring 24h, time / no weather, mixed class.

Friday, October 12th.
Round 14. Monza, 175 km, no weather, mixed class.

Friday, October 26th.
Round 15. Suzuka, 350 km, weather, same class.

I like the two heats idea, but that's an 8 month season, given this is a video game it seems a bit much.

Lastly, about CSL's comment about mixed class cars... i kinda share the same sentiment, but i think we should only reduce it not remove it all together. I think 2-4 mixed races should be enough - 5 at the most?

I think if ballast is mandated for qualifying you'll quickly find a flood of drivers agreeing when front-runners have no chance at finishing higher than 8th.

 

[DragonGT83]

There's not going to be the new comers in GT300's and the faster veterans in GT500's. It will be totally optional (depending on if there's any cars left in the class ofc.) as always. 👍

Actually, some of the fastest drivers are in the GT300 class, and they've been here since pretty much day 1. Awesome guys as well. 👍

thats awesome, i'll probably go with 300s for it anyways:tup:

 

[Adam41]

I'd be real sad if we got rid of mixed class races altogether. The more the better imo, because it's more realistic to Super GT. But obviously keep some same class as we do now because of the type of track. If a rookie joined GTP and wanted to drive a gt500, what's to stop them joining a gt500 only championship?

Suzuka Enduro season 1 says hi to remind you how good mixed class races are!!!!!11

 

[Wardez]

What if we ran two branches of WSGTC?

One on Friday that's mixed class only and Saturday that's same class only?

OR, 50/50 mixed class/same class on Friday and separate GT500 and GT300 championships that run at the same time on Saturday?

Points or qualifying wouldn't be interchangable of course... but it is an interesting thing to think about.

We could even get rid of qualifying all together for the same class "branch" and run it club style like Aderrrm's GT4 Cup. I'd volunteer to run it if Denilson feels it too much.

 

[Denilson]

It's a good idea. 👍

I'm just a bit concerned about the workload.. And even if you (Wardez) volunteer, I'm still afraid that we are pushing it a tad.. We got quite a job to keep WSGTC updated as it is right now.. Imagine what 2 new series would add if we aim to keep the same amount of detail and service as in WSGTC.

I think it's a good idea, but can we keep the quality up to level?

 

[Andil]

Keep forgetting to check this thread D:

Don't mind what happens mostly, just a couple of things:

Mixed class racing has to stay imo, it adds another element to the races and an added challenge. Would like to see 33% to 50% mixed class races.

Ballast: Mostly agree with Adam. Starting with 50kg seems unnecessary - should just add ballast as we do now. Would make it the same weights for both classes (imo 20/30/50 works better).

Regarding ballast though - you must realise Adam's viewpoint. Sometimes in gt500 the field can be seperated by 2secs from first to last, that's great and ballast helps shuffle that up. In gt300, that can often be the gap between the front two rows - ballast won't help fix that gap.

There is some talk about running Ballast in quali - meh ok, why not.

The only thing I'd like to see happen: There is no need to have the whole field running ballast! We have way too many people running too much ballast all the time now. You should be able to remove ballast whether you finish the race or not - after all, you just scored zero points. You just forfeited one of your dropped rounds, its of no benefit. Ballast is meant to be a temporary penalty, not to make your car turn into a boat for the whole season.

 

[Masi_23]

Keep forgetting to check this thread D:

Don't mind what happens mostly, just a couple of things:

Mixed class racing has to stay imo, it adds another element to the races and an added challenge. Would like to see 33% to 50% mixed class races.

Ballast: Mostly agree with Adam. Starting with 50kg seems unnecessary - should just add ballast as we do now. Would make it the same weights for both classes (imo 20/30/50 works better).

Regarding ballast though - you must realise Adam's viewpoint. Sometimes in gt500 the field can be seperated by 2secs from first to last, that's great and ballast helps shuffle that up. In gt300, that can often be the gap between the front two rows - ballast won't help fix that gap.

There is some talk about running Ballast in quali - meh ok, why not.

The only thing I'd like to see happen: There is no need to have the whole field running ballast! We have way too many people running too much ballast all the time now. You should be able to remove ballast whether you finish the race or not - after all, you just scored zero points. You just forfeited one of your dropped rounds, its of no benefit. Ballast is meant to be a temporary penalty, not to make your car turn into a boat for the whole season.

Ballast is not temporary persae, but it varies the whole season depending on your results (atleast with the new system). So yes, it can last the whole season if you keep succeeding and vice versa

This is how they do it in real life and that's the motivation on why i keep stressing to use this system. Remy shares the same views as me (he's the one who proposed it to me actually). I've already answered how the added work (pp checks) can be easily streamlined with added discipline during pre-race (no chatting - pay attention - buy/use a keyboard if you're a host!).

I'm also still very much aware of the skill gap in GT300 - though i don't think it's a good enough reason to NOT implement a more aggressive ballast system. We can't forecast who will join next season. I'm sure if we go forward with the same dedication and commitment (for the admins and the regulars who contribute week-in-week-out), the series has nowhere else to go but up - I'm sure we'll lure more top drivers out there.

That's all for now




EDIT: Grammar check!

 

[Masi_23]

It's off-week so i thought i'd give this a bump.


I've been pretty swamped with work and school lately. It's hard to keep up updating the tables - specially if you need to memorize 4000 medical terms by December. Having Wardez leave is no help at all. More work for me with google docs.

Also, because of school, i can't do fridays anymore (until December) - so with that, i created WRC (no time slots, very flexible) and Citroen Cup (Mondays-same day Qualifying).

So what's this post all about? We need help!

WANTED: Co-Admin




Also, im proposing to scale back the complexity of WSGTC.

Adapting the Divisional Qualifier. No more week-long qualifying. Instead, we qualy on raceday. Whoever shows (on their respective divisions) get's to race. No waiting list.
If only 4 people show in GT300 for a mixed class race, then we race with 4. Simple as that.

Bottom 2 finishers (6th and 7th place) from Division 1 goes to Division 2 the next race. Top 2 finishers (8th and 9th place) from Division 2 goes to Division 1 the next race.


As for the Ballast - we'll keep it simple.

1st - 60
2nd - 40
3rd - 20

No limit.

 

[CSLACR]

It's off-week so i thought i'd give this a bump.


I've been pretty swamped with work and school lately. It's hard to keep up updating the tables - specially if you need to memorize 4000 medical terms by December. Having Wardez leave is no help at all. More work for me with google docs.

Also, because of school, i can't do fridays anymore (until December) - so with that, i created WRC (no time slots, very flexible) and Citroen Cup (Mondays-same day Qualifying).

So what's this post all about? We need help!

WANTED: Co-Admin




Also, im proposing to scale back the complexity of WSGTC.

Adapting the Divisional Qualifier. No more week-long qualifying. Instead, we qualy on raceday. Whoever shows (on their respective divisions) get's to race. No waiting list.
If only 4 people show in GT300 for a mixed class race, then we race with 4. Simple as that.

Bottom 2 finishers (6th and 7th place) from Division 1 goes to Division 2 the next race.
Top 2 finishers (8th and 9th place) from Division 2 goes to Division 1 the next race.


As for the Ballast - we'll keep it simple.

1st - 60
2nd - 40
3rd - 20

No limit.

I think this sounds best, though I think adding ballast for qualifying is a must for it to be as successful as possible.
From what I've seen, the ballast obviously slows the cars down on raceday, but with the drivers still starting on the pole they typically end up getting top 3-5 anyway, so it's holding the same drivers in the top 5 or so most races.

Not sure about divisions, how that would work with mixed races back to same grid seems a bit iffy to me.
One race on mixed grid could bump someone to D2, only for them to be in the same field next week, then on same grid, everyone could potentially swap?
I actually don't know where the proposed divisional system is, I'll look around abit now.

Also, what about the possibility of mixed grids racing via total time, instead of top 7 guaranteed, maybe give everyone incentive to aim for the fastest overall race time as possible? (Obviously a small amount of math needed for exact start time to finish)
I found it very interesting in the OMRS with comparing total times, it really gives you something to shoot for in the event you're way out front, or anywhere really.

 

[Denilson]

If 4 GT300's race in D1, does 3rd and 4th get relegated?

 

[Masi_23]

If 4 GT300's race in D1, does 3rd and 4th get relegated?

This is just an initial thought, Dennis, so no details yet.

As for 3rd and 4th, no. Only 6th and 7th place gets demoted... but there in lies the problem. What if someone (a really fast driver like Remy) misses a race, will he get demoted? Hmm... it's just a proposal. You guys can add or disagree on it.

As for ballast, i agree about carrying it over to qualy. 👍

 

[Masi_23]

Ok, i just did some quick brainstorming and came up with a few ideas...


Schedule - 10 weeks - drop 2 races
Same Class - 8 Races
Mixed Class - 2 Races - These are special events and rewards twice the points for extra incentive. It will be open for everyone regardless of division.


Qualifier mandatory before the start of the series.

Top 14 for each class will be Division 1. The rest will be Division 2 (Reserved/Waiting List - priority will be set on speed).

So in effect, we are separating the classes all together with just 2 mixed class races in the schedule as a special events.

Qualifying will be done on Raceday. 2 Races per Raceday. 100km main race and a 50km sprint (Dennis' idea).

No demotions for bottom finishers, so in effect, you have to qualify (in the beginning of the season) to be eligible to race - Qualifying for Division 1.



What do you guys think?

 

[doctsuru_69]

I’ve read the thread from page 1, and it’s nice to know the different views from each driver. As this healthy discussion goes on (proposals, counter proposals, more issues, etc.) it becomes more complex and confusing to me. After giving it some thoughts, here are my views on the issues of Ballast, Division system, bonus points, and season length.

Ballast:
- I vote for maintaining present ballast system but include it during qualifying. It's less confusing, less workload for the stewards, and better pole position opportunity for other drivers (as if it matters to me... )

Divisional qualifier
- Although my reasoning is self-serving (for a slow driver like me), I like the idea of potentially landing in D1 (last two slots specifically) once you make it 1st or 2nd in during D2 qualifying. This scenario not possible with the present Divisional system, unless somebody in D1 doesn’t show up at the last minute.

Bonus Points
- I agree with keeping the bonus points acquired in dropped races, but keep it at a minimum. Too high bonus points (ex. 30 points from 3 dropped raced given to racers with complete attendance) is a bit unfair to those who intentionally dropped 3 races for more important real life priorities; removing bonus points together with the dropped race(s) is also unfair to those who spend extra time and effort in order to race. Somewhere in between would be fair, in my opinion.

Season length
- I like the present set-up. Having 1 wk break for every 4 straight weekly races will allow the stewards to catch up with reviewing incidents and tallying results.

I think somebody mentioned this in WSGTC forum: "If it's not broken, don't fix it."; and I totally agree with Denilson on this one:

I'd say, season 3 should more be like a polished version of season 2, not a complete overhaul, cause the series is good.. No doubt about that.
Perhaps try the rules that are suggested for WSGTC in other series (ie V8 supercar championship), and from the outcome in that series, add them to WSGTC.

 

[twistedfirework]

On the ballast.
I think the present ballast penalties are fine. However I would include it in qualifying. I would also limit the amount of ballast to 100kg. If someone is good enough to finish on the podium with 100kg of ballast, it should be upto everyone else to try to catch them not slow them down until it becomes impossible to drive.

Everything else in the WSGTC is fine. The only other I would change is the penalty system.
I think the penaltys should be more severe. Keep on the track at all times and stay clean. Anything else should carry a HEAVY penalty.
If your actions cost somebody time, you should have at least 25 seconds added to your time. If you don't wait for them to pass you then dq.
That should stop any over aggressive driving.

 

[Scanny_Flick]

@Masi - I'll be more than willing to take on some admin work, It will just be another 2-3 weeks before I have the spare time but plenty in time for season 3 👍

I'm also in the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' corner. I think the majority of what we have is very good, there's just a couple of things that could be tweaked.

I think the ballast is pretty straightforward, keep the system simple like it is (maybe go a bit heavier 60/40/20 as Masi said) and have it added for qualifying as well as the races and re-evaluate if necessary after season 3.

I like the idea of having 2 races (enduro and sprint) but I'm a bit concerned about the resulting reduced length of the longer race and what it will take away from the races in terms of strategy. I think if we go any shorter than what we have at the moment there will be much less, if any, differing pit strategies which would be a loss IMO. If we could add a 20 min sprint race without changing the length of the current races then great.

I don't think the current qualifying system is complex at all really. We have enough stewards and hosts covering all time zones who are online and will still be online most of the week practicing anyway to facilitate it comfortably. I think leaving everything until race day and reacting to who and how many turn up could get messy. At the moment it has good flexibilty for everyone and is something that sets us apart from other series.

However I am open to the idea of a pre-season qualifying session over an increased number of laps to determine the divisions and then just qualifying for a starting spot in your division with the 2 down 2 up after each race.

This leads to mixed and same class races. I think we should keep the ratio of the two as it is but we should have a rule that requires a minimum number of D2 entries (5?) in either class to constitute a mixed class event otherwise it should be switched to same class. Never an issue for GT500 based on what we've seen this season but sometimes a problem for GT300. I don't think it's good to have to complete a race against less than 4 other cars. In any same class event (scheduled or switched) the top 7 finishers make up D1 for the next race (if we end up with the qualifying system explained above) as opposed to the promotion/delegation scenario for a mixed class event. I am also keen on testing 16 car rooms, the more the merrier

Not keen on merging the race times from two different rooms, it sounds good in theory but in practice I think it has too many flaws. Two different races in two different rooms can't be compared for a number of reasons.

 

[Denilson]

@Masi - I'll be more than willing to take on some admin work, It will just be another 2-3 weeks before I have the spare time but plenty in time for season 3 👍

I'm also in the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' corner. I think the majority of what we have is very good, there's just a couple of things that could be tweaked.

I think the ballast is pretty straightforward, keep the system simple like it is (maybe go a bit heavier 60/40/20 as Masi said) and have it added for qualifying as well as the races and re-evaluate if necessary after season 3.

I like the idea of having 2 races (enduro and sprint) but I'm a bit concerned about the resulting reduced length of the longer race and what it will take away from the races in terms of strategy. I think if we go any shorter than what we have at the moment there will be much less, if any, differing pit strategies which would be a loss IMO. If we could add a 20 min sprint race without changing the length of the current races then great.

I don't think the current qualifying system is complex at all really. We have enough stewards and hosts covering all time zones who are online and will still be online most of the week practicing anyway to facilitate it comfortably. I think leaving everything until race day and reacting to who and how many turn up could get messy. At the moment it has good flexibilty for everyone and is something that sets us apart from other series.

However I am open to the idea of a pre-season qualifying session over an increased number of laps to determine the divisions and then just qualifying for a starting spot in your division with the 2 down 2 up after each race.

This leads to mixed and same class races. I think we should keep the ratio of the two as it is but we should have a rule that requires a minimum number of D2 entries (5?) in either class to constitute a mixed class event otherwise it should be switched to same class. Never an issue for GT500 based on what we've seen this season but sometimes a problem for GT300. I don't think it's good to have to complete a race against less than 4 other cars. In any same class event (scheduled or switched) the top 7 finishers make up D1 for the next race (if we end up with the qualifying system explained above) as opposed to the promotion/delegation scenario for a mixed class event. I am also keen on testing 16 car rooms, the more the merrier

Not keen on merging the race times from two different rooms, it sounds good in theory but in practice I think it has too many flaws. Two different races in two different rooms can't be compared for a number of reasons.

this, this, this, this, this!! 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍

Only thing I'd like to add:

Ballast: Put a upper limit at 100 kg. We still want to drive Super GT cars. At the moment, some are drivning cars that are way to heavy. In my opinion, if I was as fast as Aderrrm, mole or Remy_K, I would find it very boring to be forced to run your car in quali and race with 200 kg added to it. It becomes something totally different than a Super GT car when the weight is 1300 kg, or even more in some cases.
And if the rest of us still have a hard time to keep up, then we need to practice, not do it the other way around (Add ballast until they loose).


I also want to implement a mandatory roll-call for each race. If you do not state about your absence, your OUT from the championship. Period.
Is this too hard?
No, I don't think so.
Why?
I think that drivers expect a lot from WSGTC admins. And WSGTC admins should also be approved to have expectations on the participators.
This is how all successful groups work. IRL or on the web does'nt make any difference.
A driver that does not even take the effort stating his absence, he most likely do not care about the OP, aim to stay commited, or take part in the grops "social" activities (post in the thread, make a joke, BE A PART OF IT).
A driver like that is only extra work load. And does NOT contibute to the series as a whole.