World Super GT Championship Season 3 Discussion

[Scanny_Flick]

"And if the rest of us still have a hard time to keep up, then we need to practice, not do it the other way around (Add ballast until they loose)"

Totally agree with this 👍

I think I stated in an earlier post that the ballast system should only and can only increase competitiveness up to a point. It is up to each individual to work towards a level where they'll experience the influence of the system.

 

[Denilson]

"And if the rest of us still have a hard time to keep up, then we need to practice, not do it the other way around (Add ballast until they loose)"

Totally agree with this 👍

I think I stated in an earlier post that the ballast system should only and can only increase competitiveness up to a point. It is up to each individual to work towards a level where they'll experience the influence of the system.

Agree to 100% 👍

 

[Adam41]

Ballast: Put a upper limit at 100 kg. We still want to drive Super GT cars. At the moment, some are drivning cars that are way to heavy. In my opinion, if I was as fast as Aderrrm, mole or Remy_K, I would find it very boring to be forced to run your car in quali and race with 200 kg added to it. It becomes something totally different than a Super GT car when the weight is 1300 kg, or even more in some cases.
.

Disagree 100%. I love the added challenge of driving a heavy car. Do you realise that limiting the ballast to 100 kg in qualifying and the race, that the ballast system will be less effective than this season with a 200kg limit only in the race? Next season that means faster drivers will have 100kg less for 1.5 hours during a race, with only 100kg gained in qualifying for 2 laps. I don't believe we're even talking about this... ballast should make you have a poor result. No doubt faster drivers will still most of the time achieve podiums with 100 kg ballast.

"And if the rest of us still have a hard time to keep up, then we need to practice, not do it the other way around (Add ballast until they loose)"

Totally agree with this 👍

I think I stated in an earlier post that the ballast system should only and can only increase competitiveness up to a point. It is up to each individual to work towards a level where they'll experience the influence of the system.

You can only practice so much until you reach a natural limit of skill. And what happened to most of the people in WSGTC only having time to qualifying and do the race, sometimes only the latter, when I commented that the drivers of WSGTC have 'no real gel'?

As for my ballast when it was at 130kg at Laguna, my times were about a second a lap slower with a small amount more of tyre wear. That's going to be under a second if it was limited to 100kg. And to be honest, the faster drivers who end up with 100kg have more consistency when setting laps, and so the effect of ballast will be reduced again.

 

[NEPALII]

Not everyone has the same skill as you Aderrm, and just 50KG ballast can make a huge difference on some drivers. On me, for example, you give me 50KG and Im alright, you give me 100KG and Im done lol. Im not expert at all in this, but here is my idea: Put a ballast cap, any value you guys prefer. Once the driver reaches the cap, for the next race, that driver will qualify with that amount of ballast but for the race it gets dropped according to his qualifying performance. E.g. Pole position only 10KG dropped, 10th place 80KG dropped. The problem is having to do this every week. Maybe an alternative could be found. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Adam41]

Not everyone has the same skill as you Aderrm, and just 50KG ballast can make a huge difference on some drivers. On me, for example, you give me 50KG and Im alright, you give me 100KG and Im done lol. Im not expert at all in this, but here is my idea: Put a ballast cap, any value you guys prefer. Once the driver reaches the cap, for the next race, that driver will qualify with that amount of ballast but for the race it gets dropped according to his qualifying performance. E.g. Pole position only 10KG dropped, 10th place 80KG dropped. The problem is having to do this every week. Maybe an alternative could be found. Just my 2 cents.

That's no problem, because slower drivers will never end up getting ballast. The faster drivers however will always cope, or not be effected that much by 100 kg ballast.

It's not about skill. 10kg is roughly a tenth of a second per lap, depending on the track. So the largest penalty someone will received with 100kg ballast is 1 second, if not a bit under. Is that enough?

 

[NEPALII]

Make the ballast cap a high value. Maybe 200, 300KG, until the top drivers start falling down. It sounds harsh, but I guess its the only way to balance things out.

 

[Masi_23]

1st Reply

Scanny_Flick
@Masi - I'll be more than willing to take on some admin work, It will just be another 2-3 weeks before I have the spare time but plenty in time for season 3

I'm also in the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' corner. I think the majority of what we have is very good, there's just a couple of things that could be tweaked.

I think the ballast is pretty straightforward, keep the system simple like it is (maybe go a bit heavier 60/40/20 as Masi said) and have it added for qualifying as well as the races and re-evaluate if necessary after season 3.

I like the idea of having 2 races (enduro and sprint) but I'm a bit concerned about the resulting reduced length of the longer race and what it will take away from the races in terms of strategy. I think if we go any shorter than what we have at the moment there will be much less, if any, differing pit strategies which would be a loss IMO. If we could add a 20 min sprint race without changing the length of the current races then great.

I don't think the current qualifying system is complex at all really. We have enough stewards and hosts covering all time zones who are online and will still be online most of the week practicing anyway to facilitate it comfortably. I think leaving everything until race day and reacting to who and how many turn up could get messy. At the moment it has good flexibilty for everyone and is something that sets us apart from other series.

However I am open to the idea of a pre-season qualifying session over an increased number of laps to determine the divisions and then just qualifying for a starting spot in your division with the 2 down 2 up after each race.

This leads to mixed and same class races. I think we should keep the ratio of the two as it is but we should have a rule that requires a minimum number of D2 entries (5?) in either class to constitute a mixed class event otherwise it should be switched to same class. Never an issue for GT500 based on what we've seen this season but sometimes a problem for GT300. I don't think it's good to have to complete a race against less than 4 other cars. In any same class event (scheduled or switched) the top 7 finishers make up D1 for the next race (if we end up with the qualifying system explained above) as opposed to the promotion/delegation scenario for a mixed class event. I am also keen on testing 16 car rooms, the more the merrier

Not keen on merging the race times from two different rooms, it sounds good in theory but in practice I think it has too many flaws. Two different races in two different rooms can't be compared for a number of reasons.

👍 It's official then. You'll be the newest admin of the series Do you have experience with google docs?

Ballast: 60/40/20 and carries over to qualy. Also, the limit will be 200kg (this is the most the game allows). I think the more weight we can add, the more exciting the racing can be.

Race Length: Yeah, i agree. The pit strategies really make it more fun on race day. Dennis' idea of a main and sprint race came about because of people rage-quitting. Maybe the sprint race could make them stick around? But anyway... i think we should keep the minimum length at 175km - which equates to about an hour and a half of racing - just about right. No more no less. But if you guys want, we can have a 15-25km sprint race. Still! This will add work for the admins/stewards... we'll have to see.

Qualy: I don't think it's complex at all either - i just thought it asks too much time for everyone with hosting and what not. I guess we'll keep it as it is.

Qualifier: Qualifier will be mandatory. If you sign-ed up midseason, you'll still have to do a qualifier

Race times: CSL's proposal?

Denilson
Ballast: Put a upper limit at 100 kg. We still want to drive Super GT cars. At the moment, some are drivning cars that are way to heavy. In my opinion, if I was as fast as Aderrrm, mole or Remy_K, I would find it very boring to be forced to run your car in quali and race with 200 kg added to it. It becomes something totally different than a Super GT car when the weight is 1300 kg, or even more in some cases.
And if the rest of us still have a hard time to keep up, then we need to practice, not do it the other way around (Add ballast until they loose).


I also want to implement a mandatory roll-call for each race. If you do not state about your absence, your OUT from the championship. Period.

I think that drivers expect a lot from WSGTC admins. And WSGTC admins should also be approved to have expectations on the participators.
This is how all successful groups work. IRL or on the web doesn't make any difference.
A driver that does not even take the effort stating his absence, he most likely do not care about the OP, aim to stay committed, or take part in the groups "social" activities (post in the thread, make a joke, BE A PART OF IT).
A driver like that is only extra work load. And does NOT contribute to the series as a whole.

Ballast: I disagree with the cap. The more ballast (200kg is cap the game allows), the closer the competition will be - regardless and without prejudice to driving skills.

Roll-Call: This. It takes no more than a few seconds to write and post your plans for the next race. We'll make it mandatory.

 

[Masi_23]

@ Doc, Twisted, Aderrrm, and NEPALLI...

Stricter Penalty System

40 seconds (in penalties) = 1 Strike

1st Strike (40 seconds) - Warning
2nd Strike (80 seconds) - 3 race Probation
3rd Strike (120 seconds) - 1 Race Suspension + 3 race Probation (after suspensions)​

Ballast - I agree with Aderrrm with this one. Like i said before, the games limits it at 200kg, and we should use that limit. The more aggressive the ballast, the better the competition.

Schedule - How do you guys like limiting mixed class racing next season? 2-3 mixed class out of 10 races. Mixed class races - special events - double the points awarded.





Governing/Sanctioning Body - Need suggestions for a name - permanent sanctioning body for WSGTC and affiliated series'

I have a thread up inside the Clubs section - Here!

Currently, it's GTRA or Gran Turismo Racing Association.

Other's i've though about:

GTAF - GT Automobile Federation
GTMA - GT Motorsports Association
GTIA - GT International Association

Any others out there?

 

[NEPALII]

@ Doc, Twisted, Aderrrm, and NEPALLI...

Stricter Penalty System

40 seconds (in penalties) = 1 Strike

1st Strike (40 seconds) - Warning
2nd Strike (80 seconds) - 3 race Probation Probation
3rd Strike (120 seconds) - 1 Race Suspension + 3 race Probation (after suspensions)​

Ballast - I agree with Aderrrm with this one. Like i said before, the games limits it at 200kg, and we'll use it to its limit. The more aggressive the ballast, the better the competition.

Schedule - How do you guys like limiting mixed class racing next season? 2-3 mixed class out of 10 races. Mixed class races - special events - double the points awarded.





Governing/Sanctioning Body - Need suggestions for a name for a permanent sanctioning body for WSGTC and affiliated series'

I have a thread up inside the Clubs section - Here!

Currently, it's GTRA or Gran Turismo Racing Association.

Other's i've though about:

GTAF - GT Automobile Federation
GTMA - GT Motorsports Association
GTIA - GT International Association

Any others out there?

That penalty system is scary. But I agree with it, as it is needed. Love the idea of having mixed class races awarding double points. 👍

 

[KamyKaze1098]

About the double points awards I don't think they are good with the droped race we have. One more penalty for those who can't be here every race.

 

[Masi_23]

Good point Kam.

What do you guys think of 2 or 3 mixed class races for the whole 10-Race season?

 

[Adam41]

Good point Kam.

What do you guys think of 2 or 3 mixed class races for the whole 10-Race season?

The more the merrier for me...

 

[Denilson]

Mixed/Same Class: I think we should go for 50/50.
But add a rule that state when a mixed class becomes a same class if not enough cars qualify.
A limit of 5 cars perhaps?
So if 11 GT500's quali, and 14 GT300's for a mixed class, it will be held as a same class event since the D2 grid would only concist of 4 GT500's.
Another reason to have more Mixed Class races than suggested by Masi is that if we are going to do the initial divisional qualifier, what is that one for if we do not run separate divisions?

We have to make sure that all ideas we are brainstorming here line up nicely to one and other when deciding wich ones to implement.
A lot of good ideas, but we need to stay along one path. If not, a lot of rules and procedures will be for nothing.

Ballast: I can understand Masi and Aderrrm's arguments about maximize the ballast. But if we are going to quali with ballast as well, a 100 kg maximum is enough imo.
I understand that it can be fun for a guy like Aderrrm to race with that amount of ballast, but far from all in this series got his level of skill (I'm sorry Aderrrm, but I rellay think you need to see it from the majority of the drivers perspective, not your own angle only).
I struggle with 100kg of ballast, and any more than that I'm totally out of the competition, and that's not the way ballast should work. It should def make it harder, but not take you out of anything that looks like a competition.

About the 2 Heat idea: I totally understand KamyKaze1098's say about it. But it does not meen that we have to leave that idea.
Why not reduce the amount of point's handed out to a reasonalble level for the main event to a level that if you win Heat 1, and end up mid pack in Heat 2 (Sprint Race), the total amount of points should be in line with a win in a round held as a single event. In that way, it's possible to gain more points compared to single Heat event, but the performance from a driver to achieve that should be required to be way above average.

Something like this:
Single Race Round: (I'm using the pointsystem we ise at the moment)
Same Class: 55, 49, 43, 37, 32, 27, 22, 18, 14, 10, 7, 4, 2, 1
Mixed Class: 55, 49, 43, 37, 32, 27, 22, 22, 18, 14, 10, 7, 4, 2

2 Heat Race Round:
Same Class (Heat 1, Main Race, 175 km): 43, 38, 34, 30, 26, 22, 18, 15, 12, 9, 6, 3, 2, 1
Same Class (Heat 2, Sprint Race, 35 km): 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 11, 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
(Obviously, Heat 2 will start with the grid reversed)
No 2 Heat Races Rounds should be held as a mixed class.

So let's say we do 5 races as Mixed Class, 3 Races as a 2 Heat Round (Same Class), and 2 Same Class races like we do them today.

 

[Masi_23]

Mixed/Same Class: I think we should go for 50/50.
But add a rule that state when a mixed class becomes a same class if not enough cars qualify.
A limit of 5 cars perhaps?
So if 11 GT500's quali, and 14 GT300's for a mixed class, it will be held as a same class event since the D2 grid would only concist of 4 GT500's.
Another reason to have more Mixed Class races than suggested by Masi is that if we are going to do the initial divisional qualifier, what is that one for if we do not run separate divisions?

We have to make sure that all ideas we are brainstorming here line up nicely to one and other when deciding wich ones to implement.
A lot of good ideas, but we need to stay along one path. If not, a lot of rules and procedures will be for nothing.

My latest proposal (Post #116) of a Divisional Qualifier is in relation to this (running less mixed class races).

The new proposal:

Division 1: Top 14 drivers from Qualifier (or 16? - so a total of 32 drivers in all)
Division 2: Reserved/Waiting List
No demotions/promotions: Only when a driver announces to miss a race that a driver from the reserved list will be called up. They score points too and will be counted towards the standings. So basically, it is a closed championship.​

Ballast: I can understand Masi and Aderrrm's arguments about maximize the ballast. But if we are going to quali with ballast as well, a 100 kg maximum is enough imo.
I understand that it can be fun for a guy like Aderrrm to race with that amount of ballast, but far from all in this series got his level of skill (I'm sorry Aderrrm, but I rellay think you need to see it from the majority of the drivers perspective, not your own angle only).
I struggle with 100kg of ballast, and any more than that I'm totally out of the competition, and that's not the way ballast should work. It should def make it harder, but not take you out of anything that looks like a competition.

We'll finalize this once we get more feedback 👍

About the 2 Heat idea: I totally understand KamyKaze1098's say about it. But it does not meen that we have to leave that idea.
Why not reduce the amount of point's handed out to a reasonalble level for the main event to a level that if you win Heat 1, and end up mid pack in Heat 2 (Sprint Race), the total amount of points should be in line with a win in a round held as a single event. In that way, it's possible to gain more points compared to single Heat event, but the performance from a driver to achieve that should be required to be way above average.

Something like this:
Single Race Round: (I'm using the pointsystem we ise at the moment)
Same Class: 55, 49, 43, 37, 32, 27, 22, 18, 14, 10, 7, 4, 2, 1
Mixed Class: 55, 49, 43, 37, 32, 27, 22, 22, 18, 14, 10, 7, 4, 2

2 Heat Race Round:
Same Class (Heat 1, Main Race, 175 km): 43, 38, 34, 30, 26, 22, 18, 15, 12, 9, 6, 3, 2, 1
Same Class (Heat 2, Sprint Race, 35 km): 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 11, 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
(Obviously, Heat 2 will start with the grid reversed)
No 2 Heat Races Rounds should be held as a mixed class.

So let's say we do 5 races as Mixed Class, 3 Races as a 2 Heat Round (Same Class), and 2 Same Class races like we do them today.

I think 200km per Raceday is a bit too long for the majority (at least that's my assumption) but i like the idea of dual heats.

I think we should implement a lower scoring points system though so it's easier to tabulate.
Similar to the real Super GT where it starts at 20 and goes all the way to 1 (awarded to top 10 only)

Here's what i have in mind - Both for Same and Mixed Class Racing:

Race 1: Rolling Start - Grid through Qualy (150-175km)
40 - 30 - 22 - 16 - 12 - 10 - 8 - 6 - 4 - 2

Bonus Points (Fastest Lap, Pole Position, and Race % Completion)

Race 2: Standing Start - Reverse Grid (20-35km)
20 - 15 - 11 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (Half of the above)

Bonus Points (NONE)

Btw, Super GT runs a sprint race at Fuji every year and they do it in standing starts.​

EDIT: Added some details about Qualifier at the top.

 

[Denilson]

Don't pay too much attention to the km stated, or the pointsystem used.

I was only trying to give an example how we could keep the 2 Heat idea, but make sure it's not going to be a huge difference in possible collected points. Only if a driver wins Heat 1, and plow thru the field in the 2nd sprint heat up to 5th or above, the total amount of points should add up to more than a 1 Race round win.
That was all I wanted to highlite with my post as far as the 2 heat idea goes. 👍

In your proposal, the amounf of points is too much (If the point system you stated for Heat 1 is the same as what we are going to use for the 1 Race Rounds as well).
Cause in that case, the total amount of points won will be too generous.
The winner in Heat 1 can in your suggestion make more points compared to a normal round by only gaining 10th in the sprint race.
In my suggestion, the winner of Heat 1 will have to end 5th or better to earn more points compared to a normal race.
And since the winner in Heat 1, most often is a top 4 qualifier, he can start the sprint race in 10th, and already from scratch be in a position where he gains more points compared to the 1 Race Rounds.
That's why I want the pointsystem for the 2 Heat races to look different compared to the "normal" races.

 

[Masi_23]

Don't pay too much attention to the km stated, or the pointsystem used.

I was only trying to give an example how we could keep the 2 Heat idea, but make sure it's not going to be a huge difference in possible collected points. Only if a driver wins Heat 1, and plow thru the field in the 2nd sprint heat up to 5th or above, the total amount of points should add up to more than a 1 Race round win.
That was all I wanted to highlite with my post as far as the 2 heat idea goes. 👍

In your proposal, the amounf of points is too much (If the point system you stated for Heat 1 is the same as what we are going to use for the 1 Race Rounds as well).
Cause in that case, the total amount of points won will be too generous.
The winner in Heat 1 can in your suggestion make more points compared to a normal round by only gaining 10th in the sprint race.
In my suggestion, the winner of Heat 1 will have to end 5th or better to earn more points compared to a normal race.
And since the winner in Heat 1, most often is a top 4 qualifier, he can start the sprint race in 10th, and already from scratch be in a position where he gains more points compared to the 1 Race Rounds.
That's why I want the pointsystem for the 2 Heat races to look different compared to the "normal" races.

Oh, no, i assumed all the races in the Championship will be dual heats.

I like Dual heats by the way, but i think it's a bit concerning seeing the potential added work that will come with it - reviewing incidents/replays and all, plus points tabulating.

The winner in Heat 1 can in your suggestion make more points compared to a normal round by only gaining 10th in the sprint race.
In my suggestion, the winner of Heat 1 will have to end 5th or better to earn more points compared to a normal race.
And since the winner in Heat 1, most often is a top 4 qualifier, he can start the sprint race in 10th, and already from scratch be in a position where he gains more points compared to the 1 Race Rounds.
That's why I want the pointsystem for the 2 Heat races to look different compared to the "normal" races.

Can you elaborate a little more? I'm a bit lost.

 

[Denilson]

Oh, no, i assumed all the races in the Championship will be dual heats.

I like Dual heats by the way, but i think it's a bit concerning seeing the potential added work that will come with it - reviewing incidents/replays and all, plus points tabulating.



Can you elaborate a little more? I'm a bit lost.

With KamyKaze1098's input in mind.

We do not want it to be too easy to gain a lot of points in the 2 heat races. Cause, as Kamy said, drivers that might miss out that perticular week should not miss a race where drivers per automatic make more points compared to a "normal" round.

That's why I suggested that we should implement a separate point system for the weeks we run 2 Heats.
To ensure that if a driver do collect more points compared to a "normal" race, he need to perform very good.. VERY GOOD!

That's why I want the points for 1st (In heat 1) and the points for 5th (Cause to end 5th in the Sprint Race, the winner (who most likely started in top 3, and will start from the last spots in Heat 2) from Heat 1 will have to perform very well) in the Sprint Race to end up at around 55p (Still using the pointsystem we are using now in this example).
If we hand out the same amount of points to the Heat 1 winner, as for the winner in a "normal" race, the winner will most likely earn more points compared to a round with only 1 long race no matter his performance, and the disadvantage to miss that pericular week is greater than if we try to level out the points up for grabs.

So basically, winning Heat 1, and finish 5th in Heat 2 is equal to Winning a "normal" race, pointwise..

Make sence?

 

[Masi_23]

With KamyKaze1098's input in mind.

We do not want it to be too easy to gain a lot of points in the 2 heat races. Cause, as Kamy said, drivers that might miss out that perticular week should not miss a race where drivers per automatic make more points compared to a "normal" round.

That's why I suggested that we should implement a separate point system for the weeks we run 2 Heats.
To ensure that if a driver do collect more points compared to a "normal" race, he need to perform very good.. VERY GOOD!

That's why I want the points for 1st (In heat 1) and the points for 5th (Cause to end 5th in the Sprint Race, the winner (who most likely started in top 3, and will start from the last spots in Heat 2) from Heat 1 will have to perform very well) in the Sprint Race to end up at around 55p (Still using the pointsystem we are using now in this example).
If we hand out the same amount of points to the Heat 1 winner, as for the winner in a "normal" race, the winner will most likely earn more points compared to a round with only 1 long race no matter his performance, and the disadvantage to miss that pericular week is greater than if we try to level out the points up for grabs.

So basically, winning Heat 1, and finish 5th in Heat 2 is equal to Winning a "normal" race, pointwise..

Make sence?

Okay, how many Dual Heat races do you have in mind?

I'm having second thoughts about this, btw (mostly because of the added workload).

 

[Adam41]

Ballast:I can understand Masi and Aderrrm's arguments about maximize the ballast. But if we are going to quali with ballast as well, a 100 kg maximum is enough imo.
I understand that it can be fun for a guy like Aderrrm to race with that amount of ballast, but far from all in this series got his level of skill (I'm sorry Aderrrm, but I rellay think you need to see it from the majority of the drivers perspective, not your own angle only).

I made my own comment, but in my initial post I referred to the 'fastest drivers', who ever they may be in season 3 rather than just myself. How about we go the other way? 'Slower' faster drivers will be effected more by ballast and 100kg is too much for them, but is it too little for 'faster' faster drivers?

I struggle with 100kg of ballast, and any more than that I'm totally out of the competition, and that's not the way ballast should work. It should def make it harder, but not take you out of anything that looks like a competition.

But to get to 100kg you must have put in some good results before that. If you say you struggled so much with 100kg that it takes you out of contention, then surely you would find it hard only with say, 60kg. But if you found it hard with 60kg and you're still adding ballast and getting podiums, then how did you manage that? Surely you deserved to get up to 100kg. Same goes for drivers who will manage ballast better. They will be on 100kg and will find it hard, but will still be hitting podiums. Some people will need to receive more than 100kg to 'struggle' and finish off the podium.

If you struggle with a certain amount of ballast so much, then you shouldn't be on the podium - some ballast will be lost and the ballast will have done it's job.

Do you realise that limiting the ballast [next season] to 100 kg in qualifying and the race, that the ballast system will be less effective than this season with a 200kg limit only in the race?

No really. Do people understand this? Just making sure.

 

[Denilson]

Ofc I can see what you meen regarding the 200 is more effective than 100..

But, do you understand my point when I say:
If a driver can not keep up with another driver that carries 100 kg of ballast, that driver need to improve.

As you said: The slower drivers will never get a win regardless.
If drivers reach a sertain level, the 100 kg ballast can surely be noticed.
I.e, I concider me and Paginas as pretty much equal in pace. And he could def notice my extra 100 kg at Seca.

And with the new rules that quali also will be done with ballast will make the 100 kg limit even more noticeable. Cause it's too many good drivers around to beat me when I'm roughly 1 second slower with it.

@Masi: I don't think it's more work with the 2 Heat idea.
Just use another point table.
Perhaps one or two incident reports extra. But on the other hand, I can def see season 3 becomming a lot cleaner since it will practically be a closed championship.

I had 3, 2 Heat Races in mind as stated in my post earlier.
5 Mixed Class
3 Same Class/2 Heat Races
2 Same Class Races as we do them in Season 2.

 

[Adam41]

Okay well I say let the limit be 200. Let's see what everyone else thinks... if any of them bother posting.

I had 3, 2 Heat Races in mind as stated in my post earlier.
5 Mixed Class
3 Same Class/2 Heat Races
2 Same Class Races as we do them in Season 2.

I like the sound of this.

 

[twistedfirework]

Okay well I say let the limit be 200. Let's see what everyone else thinks... if any of them bother posting.

I like the sound of this.

As I said earlier in the thread I would say max of 100kg ballast.

 

[Andil]

100kg as a maximum sounds fine to me - that's enough for ~1sec a lap on a typical track which ought to do its job of slowing a driver down enough to be back in the midfield, assuming the rest of the field are close enough to be competitive. I think it's safe to say that a driver with 100kg if racing in the current GT500 field would struggle, but maybe yourself (Adam) and myself in the GT300 field at the moment, it won't necessarily make much difference (tends to be a 2-3 second gap per lap without ballast anyway..)

I think for the sake of keeping it in line for both classes, 100kg makes sense - can see what you're saying, Adam, about running 200kg to ensure the ballast does its job - but from the point of view of those running in GT500, that would be too much, they don't have a big gap to the rest of the field like we sometimes do. Hopefully we also won't have such a gap next season either in which case it won't be an issue. I think it's an exceptional circumstance which allows yourself and I to be able to compete for wins with full and almost full ballast.

Also I'm not keen on running up to 200kg of ballast for realism reasons: The cars, some of them, weigh in at around 1100-1200kg - adding 200kg is nearly 1/5 of the car, and that's a silly amount - in SuperGT, for what it's worth (Yeah, I know we're only playing in a game ), GT300s aren't allowed more than 100kg of ballast and GT500s aren't allowed to exceed 1200kg as a car total - which works out at 100kg unless you're running a Supra anyway I think. They run a 50/30/20/10 system for 1st/2nd/3rd/4th.

I also like Denilson's 5 Mixed, 3 Same Class (2 Heats), 2 Same Class championship idea. 👍

 

[doctsuru_69]

I had 3, 2 Heat Races in mind as stated in my post earlier.
5 Mixed Class
3 Same Class/2 Heat Races
2 Same Class Races as we do them in Season 2.

Fine with me on this one. 👍

100 or 200 kg limit? Practically doesn't affect me now. But since I'm looking forward to improving myself in the few seasons to come, then I like the idea of 100kg ballast cap since it motivates me practice more and cope up with the top drivers. I share the same thought that "You don't need to pull down others in order to be at same level with them, instead push yourself up to be at same level with them." (I'm just quoting myself, lol)

 

[Masi_23]

How about this:

4 Mixed Class
4 Same Class/2 Heat Races
2 Same Class Enduros (250km - Suzuka and Fuji)

 

[Masi_23]

POINTS SYSTEM

OPTION 1 (Masi_23 prefers this 1st)

Single Race:
25 - 19 - 14 - 10 - 7 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1

Dual Heats:
20 - 15 - 11 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1
5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (No Bonus Points)​

OPTION 2 (This one last)

Single Race:
30 - 24 - 19 - 15 - 12 - 10 - 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 1

Dual Heats
20 - 15 - 11 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1
10 - 7 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (No Bonus Points)​

OPTION 3 (This one 2nd)

Single Race:
20 - 15 - 11 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1

Dual Heats:
20 - 15 - 11 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1
5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (No Bonus Points)​

BONUS POINTS (for all three options)

Qualifying:
3 - 2 - 1

Fastest Laps:
3 - 2 - 1

Finished Race:
90% - 3
65% - 2
40% - 1​

 

[Adam41]

I think for the sake of keeping it in line for both classes, 100kg makes sense - can see what you're saying, Adam, about running 200kg to ensure the ballast does its job - but from the point of view of those running in GT500, that would be too much, they don't have a big gap to the rest of the field like we sometimes do. Hopefully we also won't have such a gap next season either in which case it won't be an issue. I think it's an exceptional circumstance which allows yourself and I to be able to compete for wins with full and almost full ballast.

I understand, but I'm trying to think more about next season than this season. You don't know who's going to join, and if they're really fast we're going to be stuck with a 100kg limit until season 4.

And I know 200kg will totally put some gt500 drivers out of contention. What I'm trying to say is if they struggle so much with 200, how the hell did they get up to 200? Surely with 140kg, they couldn't have had a win to get them 60kg because 140 isn't far off of 200, and they probably wouldn't have finished on the podium with 140, nevermind win the race.

The way I look at it, a podium is a good result which is why we give ballast for them positions, right? Say a gt500 driver who struggles with ballast is on 100kg. Some of you have said you can't cope with 100kg, and even 50kg affects you alot. Well if you can't cope that much, you won't be finishing on the podium and so you will be losing ballast. But for faster drivers than you (who ever they may be in season 3) who may be able to cope with ballast better, they'll be stuck with 100kg and won't be getting penalised any further. Some gt500 drivers will be 'limited' to ballast because of they're natural skill - they'll get to a certain point (e.g. 100kg) and then start missing podiums dropping 20kg each time. Other, faster gt500 drivers will be limited to ballast because of the 100kg limit and it may not be enough. That's all I'm trying to say.

Anyway, I stuck around with gt300 for 3 reasons in season 2. I tested the cars, the class was struggling for sign-ups (compared to the gt500 class at least) and the more drivers in a class may encourage more people to join it. So I'll definitely be switching to gt500 next season - should be a nice change. (especially in mixed class races which I say we have 5 of, not 4! )

I prefer Option 1. However I don't like the bonus points. PP should be 2 points, FL 1 point.

 

[Denilson]

POINTS SYSTEM

OPTION 1 (Masi_23 prefers this 1st)

Single Race:
25 - 19 - 14 - 10 - 7 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1

Dual Heats:
20 - 15 - 11 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1
5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (No Bonus Points)​

OPTION 2 (This one last)

Single Race:
30 - 24 - 19 - 15 - 12 - 10 - 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 1

Dual Heats
20 - 15 - 11 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1
10 - 7 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (No Bonus Points)​

OPTION 3 (This one 2nd)

Single Race:
20 - 15 - 11 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1

Dual Heats:
20 - 15 - 11 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1
5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (No Bonus Points)​

BONUS POINTS (for all three options)

Qualifying:
3 - 2 - 1

Fastest Laps:
3 - 2 - 1

Finished Race:
90% - 3
65% - 2
40% - 1​

I'd prefer a mix from your 3 different options.

This!:

Single Race:
25 - 19 - 14 - 10 - 7 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1

Dual Heats
20 - 15 - 11 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1
10 - 7 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 (No Bonus Points)​

I love the pruposed bonus / race finish point suggestion. 👍
(100% completion would be 5 points?)

 

[Masi_23]

I prefer Option 1 too for the lower numbers

Bonus Points
Dennis - Hmm... i think it'll be too much. I looked at F1 for inspiration with '90%' ...not final anyways, so we'll see.
Adam - It's the same system as real life Super GT. We'll stay loyal as best we can (unless of-course if we need to add other cars - if you know what i mean ). There's also another bonus systems about finishing in the lead lap, 1, 2+, etc... But that'll take too much to track, so i think we're be good with just the two (Qualy and FL).

 

[NEPALII]

I understand, but I'm trying to think more about next season than this season. You don't know who's going to join, and if they're really fast we're going to be stuck with a 100kg limit until season 4.

And I know 200kg will totally put some gt500 drivers out of contention. What I'm trying to say is if they struggle so much with 200, how the hell did they get up to 200? Surely with 140kg, they couldn't have had a win to get them 60kg because 140 isn't far off of 200, and they probably wouldn't have finished on the podium with 140, nevermind win the race.

The way I look at it, a podium is a good result which is why we give ballast for them positions, right? Say a gt500 driver who struggles with ballast is on 100kg. Some of you have said you can't cope with 100kg, and even 50kg affects you alot. Well if you can't cope that much, you won't be finishing on the podium and so you will be losing ballast. But for faster drivers than you (who ever they may be in season 3) who may be able to cope with ballast better, they'll be stuck with 100kg and won't be getting penalised any further. Some gt500 drivers will be 'limited' to ballast because of they're natural skill - they'll get to a certain point (e.g. 100kg) and then start missing podiums dropping 20kg each time. Other, faster gt500 drivers will be limited to ballast because of the 100kg limit and it may not be enough. That's all I'm trying to say.

Anyway, I stuck around with gt300 for 3 reasons in season 2. I tested the cars, the class was struggling for sign-ups (compared to the gt500 class at least) and the more drivers in a class may encourage more people to join it. So I'll definitely be switching to gt500 next season - should be a nice change. (especially in mixed class races which I say we have 5 of, not 4! )

I prefer Option 1. However I don't like the bonus points. PP should be 2 points, FL 1 point.

Well, you do have a good point on paragraph 3. Im a little lost regarding ballast on qualifying: Is ballast going to be used on qualifying as well, or just on the race like the current rules?