World Super GT Championship Season 3 Discussion

[Denilson]

I'm just basing it off the fact that they won the championships last season but we can all reset to class D (since we all have experience with at least 4 starts). And from that point on, class will carry to the next seasons to come. Meanwhile, newbies will always be tagged as rookies. Even if they have experience in other GTP leagues. Only WSGTC/WV8SC/WGTS will count.

We can still have Divisional Ratings and Divisional Championships in tandem with this rating system. So basically, Safety Rating and the License Class system will give you an good idea within a few seconds of who you're dealing with, how fast he is, and if he is clean or not. If done and sustained properly, the rep of WSGTC will skyrocket. I'll be implementing this on the other sister series' (WV8SC and WGTS) as well.

p.s. Are you guys grabbing F1 2011? I would definitely get one at launch. I think an F1 series is in the making here, aye?

👍

But Remy_K did not even race last season.. JPzer won that one..
I think that we should count the numbers from WSGTC 1 in to the safty rating / licence thing, since it's a ll well documented.
And it should also show.

 

[Masi_23]

Oh, really? My mistake. I thought it was Remy seeing as i remember Remy racing in Preseason Season 1. But yes, we can calculate the ratings from our archives 👍 Do we have archives of the penalties for season 1? If not, we'll just base it off race starts, wins, and gained positions.

 

[OwensRacing]

I don't know about rating performance. That to is segregating the group. We are aware of who is fast. Classing should ve based on "class" on the race track. Drivers that maintain level heads. Handle things well. On track characteristics if you will.

I don't know. I honestly know I am not fast like Remy, Chorda, and Wardez as well many others. However I don't think I am out classed so to speak. Def out talented.

Just being honest here. Open to hearing a retort cause I could be swayed from that thought.

 

[Denilson]

Oh, really? My mistake. I thought it was Remy seeing as i remember Remy racing in Preseason Season 1. But yes, we can calculate the ratings from our archives 👍 Do we have archives of the penalties for season 1? If not, we'll just base it off race starts, wins, and gained positions.

I think all penalties are listed.. they should be.

Another thing I want to discuss.

At the moment, all bonuspoints are kept to the total even if the race where they were gathered was dropped.
After giving it some thought, that would be at least 30p difference between a driver who raced all races, and one who have dropped 3 races.
That's a bit much in my book. Cause 30 points are quite much. It's along the line with a 5th place in D1.
We do want some bonus points to be handed out to drivers who show great commitment, but it's a bit much if you ask me.

I say, let's keep the bonuspoint system. But reduce all bonuses aqired in dropped races to 50%.

I want to keep the relative high bonus system, cause it makes drivers think twice about rage quiting.

Thoughts?

 

[Denilson]

I don't know about rating performance. That to is segregating the group. We are aware of who is fast. Classing should ve based on "class" on the race track. Drivers that maintain level heads. Handle things well. On track characteristics if you will.

I don't know. I honestly know I am not fast like Remy, Chorda, and Wardez as well many others. However I don't think I am out classed so to speak. Def out talented.

Just being honest here. Open to hearing a retort cause I could be swayed from that thought.

Fair point. 👍

Well worth looking in to before deciding on any "class" system.
I totally hear you.

P.S No, you're defenetly not out classed in any way.. Thanks for mentioning me though.. But I concider my self pretty average here..

 

[Masi_23]

@ Owens - I disagree with the point of 'segregating'

If you are clean (consistently) and gather enough experience, you can achieve Class A easily. Still, you can race your way up faster by performing better (ie. winning races). Being 'aware' who is fast is not enough, imho. Having something to label drivers would be a great way to constantly remind us (veterans) and the specially the new guys on who they are dealing with. This goes in tandem with the 'character' of a driver that builds up within our collective memories as we race along each other.

So basically, having a higher class doesn't mean you're out classed or out talented, persae, but its more based on experience and consistency (racing conduct).

This can also serve as a motivational tool for drivers (another form of incentive) in a way that they'll keep in tabs of everything they do on track. This certainly is what i felt as i was still subscribed in iRacing. I always kept my cool and stayed patient, just so i can raise my Safety Rating, thus, making me eligible for License Promotions.

@ Dennis - About the bonus points... how about we keep 70%? So it's like dropping 30% of your bonus points but not technically dropping specific races, persae.




EDIT - here's an example of what it will look like in the driver's list:

 

[Masi_23]

Also, new proposed Points and Ballast System similar to the real Super GT. Thanks to Remy for giving me the link.

Points System:

Weight Ballast System (100 kg max both ways - 11th to 14th receives -50 kg deduction also):

Lastly, a Power Ballast System that will surely even out the competition even more making for more exciting races (25 hp max both ways - 11th to 14th receives +5 hp also):

 

[Wardez]

Those performance penalties work brilliantly in real life but I seriously am against trying to include them within GT5's limited racing structure. If GT5 simply had a read out with each car showing how much HP and weight they were at exactly it would be simple and easy to implement but with the nature of online racing, people dropping out, quitting the series, penalties changing final results etc. It would be a nightmare to enforce a performance penalty system as elaborate as the real life Super GT system.

It would also just confuse people and make pre-race checks even longer.

Instead of removing different weights at different amounts at different finishing positions we could implement a race-to-race aggregate system as well as implementing a 120kg cap. The way it would work would be that if someone with ballast finishes out of the podium the first time, they lose 20kg, if they miss the podium twice, they lose 30, then 40 or until they're back down to zero.

What I do really like is the bonus points for qualifying and fastest laps in the podium format they have.

That, we can use.

And Masi, to be honest, a licensing structure's like that just isn't going to last. People just aren't interested in that aspect enough with the type of racers we have. While we do have a few hardcore members that will happily submit themselves to that class structure, there's just not enough other people that would appreciate it or take it seriously to make it worth it. Don't over work it, I believe the main theme of next season should be optimization and polish, not add add add.

Also, try and cut down on the double posting guys.

 

[OwensRacing]

I see where your at with it. Carry on.

 

[Masi_23]

Those performance penalties work brilliantly in real life but I seriously am against trying to include them within GT5's limited racing structure. If GT5 simply had a read out with each car showing how much HP and weight they were at exactly it would be simple and easy to implement but with the nature of online racing, people dropping out, quitting the series, penalties changing final results etc. It would be a nightmare to enforce a performance penalty system as elaborate as the real life Super GT system.

It would also just confuse people and make pre-race checks even longer.

Instead of removing different weights at different amounts at different finishing positions we could implement a race-to-race aggregate system as well as implementing a 120kg cap. The way it would work would be that if someone with ballast finishes out of the podium the first time, they lose 20kg, if they miss the podium twice, they lose 30, then 40 or until they're back down to zero.

I don't see how harder (or different) it is and it could be since pre-race check will just be based on Performance Points. I do know that in certain cars, moving ballast position affects the PP, but only to some (road cars only i think?). But still, the PP will be capped (based on your last race) and we will police by PP so i don't see how it will affect it much at all.

And Masi, to be honest, a licensing structure's like that just isn't going to last. People just aren't interested in that aspect enough with the type of racers we have. While we do have a few hardcore members that will happily submit themselves to that class structure, there's just not enough other people that would appreciate it or take it seriously to make it worth it. Don't over work it, I believe the main theme of next season should be optimization and polish, not add add add.

It is just a fact sheet - a trivial fact if you will - and you don't have to do anything to 'submit' yourself into the system. There's no qualifying for a license - the class is just a label for people to be aware of what your experience is inside WSGTC (or any other series' tied in with WSGTC) - and the safety rating is there for reasons i've already mentioned. It is a lot of work, but i'm willing to have this work even by myself as we go along the season.

I see where your at with it. Carry on.

To whom is this directed?

 

[Denilson]

Also, new proposed Points and Ballast System similar to the real Super GT. Thanks to Remy for giving me the link.

Points System:

Weight Ballast System (100 kg max both ways - 11th to 14th receives -50 kg deduction also):

Lastly, a Power Ballast System that will surely even out the competition even more making for more exciting races (25 hp max both ways - 11th to 14th receives +5 hp also):

Point system: OK, so 11th-14th (or 16th, whatever we decide to go with for season 3) will not earn position points, but bonus points? I'm cool with that. 👍

I'm also cool with the bonus points suggested. 👍

I do want to make one clear statemant regarding bonus points. I've seen that it's been up for discussion to hand out points for most laps in th lead. I say: Scrap that idea. With the replaysystem, it would take 1 hour to watch an entire race just to count who's in the lead each lap. It will also be a problem since we in most cases run mixed class, with GT300's ahead and so on.

And I think that if we do 10 rounds, 2 races can be dropped. More than 10 rounds, we should dropp 3 races.. Approaching 15 races, 4 rounds is my suggestion.
I do think that we need the strong bonus for finishing a race to keep drivers from rage quiting. And bonus points obtained in a race that is dropped should be reduced to 50% if we are able to drop 3 races, and 70% if we are able to drop 2 races.

Ballast system:
I think the one we are using now is good enough. But I think we should put a stop at 100 kg added. No more than that.

Power ballast:
I'd say no.
minus HP will not be fair. Some cars got strong, wide powerbands, and some cars got more pointy powerbands. The hp penalty (Power ballast) will not be fair. Just keep it simple as long as it works. The procedure are already long, and requires almost 15 minutes just to get out to track.
As long as we're not given any better tools from PD to police details regarding the cars, I'd say that what we got is pretty damn good.

And weight can not be removed from the cars, so the system where car 6 and below can reduce weight will not work. Sure, if it was mandatory to start with 50 kg ballast as "Stock".. But then again, the possibility to police it all will be an issue.

Instead of removing different weights at different amounts at different finishing positions we could implement a race-to-race aggregate system as well as implementing a 120kg cap. The way it would work would be that if someone with ballast finishes out of the podium the first time, they lose 20kg, if they miss the podium twice, they lose 30, then 40 or until they're back down to zero.

And Masi, to be honest, a licensing structure's like that just isn't going to last. People just aren't interested in that aspect enough with the type of racers we have. While we do have a few hardcore members that will happily submit themselves to that class structure, there's just not enough other people that would appreciate it or take it seriously to make it worth it. Don't over work it, I believe the main theme of next season should be optimization and polish, not add add add.

The system where you can remove more and more ballast the more races you're outside the podium.. hmm, sure..
But on the other hand, look at this season, even with a fixed rate at 20 kg / missed podium, we still pretty much got the same drivers on top each week. To make it easier will only make the championship more predictable.
I say: Keep the ballast system as it is.

Licences / classes
I think that it would be a cool feature. But it will require a lot of tracking. I think that we already put in a lot of time managing this championship, and to put down even more work for something that does not affect the racing in practice, is a "no" for me.
BUT, if Eric says that he can keep track of it, I'm all for the idea. I think it's a really nice feature. But workload will decide if I'm for or against.

 

[Masi_23]

I do want to make one clear statemant regarding bonus points. I've seen that it's been up for discussion to hand out points for most laps in th lead. I say: Scrap that idea. With the replaysystem, it would take 1 hour to watch an entire race just to count who's in the lead each lap. It will also be a problem since we in most cases run mixed class, with GT300's ahead and so on.

And I think that if we do 10 rounds, 2 races can be dropped. More than 10 rounds, we should dropp 3 races.. Approaching 15 races, 4 rounds is my suggestion.
I do think that we need the strong bonus for finishing a race to keep drivers from rage quiting. And bonus points obtained in a race that is dropped should be reduced to 50% if we are able to drop 3 races, and 70% if we are able to drop 2 races.

Yeah, i guess we should scrap laps led.

We should do 10 rounds + The final shootout (5 - off - 5 - off - Shooout).

Ballast system:
I think the one we are using now is good enough. But I think we should put a stop at 100 kg added. No more than that.

Power ballast:
I'd say no.
minus HP will not be fair. Some cars got strong, wide powerbands, and some cars got more pointy powerbands. The hp penalty (Power ballast) will not be fair. Just keep it simple as long as it works. The procedure are already long, and requires almost 15 minutes just to get out to track.
As long as we're not given any better tools from PD to police details regarding the cars, I'd say that what we got is pretty damn good.

And weight can not be removed from the cars, so the system where car 6 and below can reduce weight will not work. Sure, if it was mandatory to start with 50 kg ballast as "Stock".. But then again, the possibility to police it all will be an issue.

Yes, like i proposed, 100kg should be the limit. As we can see this season, the same people are still winning even with the weight ballast. Remy_K lost the last race (Indy) due to tire strategy? ...and he also lost la Sarthe due to a penalty. Meanwhile, in GT300, unless they do not participate in the race at all, the same people are still winning (ie. Aderrrm, Moleman, Tony1311). I really think the HP ballast could make it more exciting/competitive - making the season unpredictable and giving the less skilled drivers more of a change in the championship - thus making them stay all throughout the season (hopefully, at least).

If you guys would like, maybe we should make it easier where only podiums will have HP reductions? ie. 1st (-3 hp) 2nd (-2hp) 3rd (-1hp). The rest will not receive any such ballast + or -

By the way, these system will be tested in the V8 championship so we'll see how it works.

EDIT: a few grammar mistakes corrected - but anyway, in the proposed ballast system, we will start with 100kg weight added on all cars to make room for weight reduction.

 

[Denilson]

No, Remy came 4th with a good strategy. If he had run the race alone, I doubt he would've made it higher than 6th (Only 20 seconds separated the whole field).

I really don't think we should reduce hp. hp can be reduced in different ways. You can actually remove hp, but gain pp from it.. Look at the AUTECH MOTUL. It was at 518 Bhp at 607 pp in season 1.. Now, it's at 515 Bhp at 610 pp.. All about the powerband.
And in the end, 3 Bhp wont make any difference at all. It's just a hassle for us stewards. Hell, I'm dedicating 45 minutes prior every race I host just to calculate all driver pp's and weights.

In GT500, we got a lot of different winners. I'd say that the reason mole and aderrrm are winning (not always I might add) because they are just soo good. Don't think we should redo the whole ballast system because of that. If anything, it will improve the other drivers.. A huge part of the GT300 field has improved a lot from last season. And to race against drivers like remy, mole and aderrrm is something that I concider an honor. And it makes me improve. I like it. But then again, Remy_K sure got trouble now, that's for sure. And by looking in the standings, it's obvious that he's not in any way safe. Keeping in mind he can only get rid of 20 Kg / missed podium. That's why I don' think we should be able to remove more and more weight for each race you miss it. It will only help the fastest drivers to pick up pace even faster.

 

[Masi_23]

Look at the AUTECH MOTUL. It was at 518 Bhp at 607 pp in season 1.. Now, it's at 515 Bhp at 610 pp..

I'll have to go check this myself. If it is true, then i guess there's no other way but to scrap it (unless we all drive the same car lol).

In GT500, we got a lot of different winners. I'd say that the reason mole and aderrrm are winning (not always I might add) because they are just soo good. Don't think we should redo the whole ballast system because of that. If anything, it will improve the other drivers.. A huge part of the GT300 field has improved a lot from last season. And to race against drivers like remy, mole and aderrrm is something that I concider an honor. And it makes me improve. I like it. But then again, Remy_K sure got trouble now, that's for sure. And by looking in the standings, it's obvious that he's not in any way safe. Keeping in mind he can only get rid of 20 Kg / missed podium. That's why I don' think we should be able to remove more and more weight for each race you miss it. It will only help the fastest drivers to pick up pace even faster.

Ok, let's see... Remy_K has won 3 out of 5 races he has participated in (that includes the win at la Sarthe without the penalty - not sure what happened in round 2 but he did have Pole), so that's about a 60% winning percentage. It took him at least about half the season to be affected by the ballast. In comparison to real life, not a single car (or team for that matter) won more than 1 race the whole season, showing how close the racing was. I think the current ballast needs a little tweak; like the one proposed above - removing ballast from lower finishers (This is possible by adding 100kg ballast to all cars at the start of the season to give leeway from ranges). An added rule could be that, to be eligible to reduce your weight, you must finish within the lead lap or somewhere along that line. The current one above can be revised a little more to abide with what the majority agrees on.

Just to respond on another note: i get what you're saying with racing with the best and being inspired to work harder - but the whole point of the ballast is to even out competition and make the racing much closer - that should encompass skills along with the car. The current system is fine the way it is, but it should be a bit more aggressive both ways to make the racing much, much closer. A bit repetitive in my points, but yah - that's my 2 cents.

So in conclusion, i vote for a revision with the weight ballast - should be more aggressive. Evident with real life Super GT, a proper ballast system keeps the racing close - produces more passing, thus, better TV ratings It should translate to better attendance for the whole length of the season with WSGTC drivers - and attract more fans? (atleast that is the theory).

Power ballast? - ehh, unsure for now.

 

[KamyKaze1098]

I'll have to go check this myself. If it is true, then i guess there's no other way but to scrap it (unless we all drive the same car lol).



Ok, let's see... Remy_K has won 3 out of 5 races he has participated in (that includes the win at la Sarthe without the penalty - not sure what happened in round 2 but he did have Pole), so that's about a 60% winning percentage. It took him at least about half the season to be affected by the ballast. In comparison to real life, not a single car (or team for that matter) won more than 1 race the whole season, showing how close the racing was. I think the current ballast needs a little tweak; like the one proposed above - removing ballast from lower finishers (This is possible by adding 100kg ballast to all cars at the start of the season to give leeway from ranges). An added rule could be that, to be eligible to reduce your weight, you must finish within the lead lap or somewhere along that line. The current one above can be revised a little more to abide with what the majority agrees on.

Just to respond on another note: i get what you're saying with racing with the best and being inspired to work harder - but the whole point of the ballast is to even out competition and make the racing much closer - that should encompass skills along with the car. The current system is fine the way it is, but it should be a bit more aggressive both ways to make the racing much, much closer. A bit repetitive in my points, but yah - that's my 2 cents.

So in conclusion, i vote for a revision with the weight ballast - should be more aggressive. Evident with real life Super GT, a proper ballast system keeps the racing close - produces more passing, thus, better TV ratings It should translate to better attendance for the whole length of the season with WSGTC drivers - and attract more fans? (atleast that is the theory).

Power ballast? - ehh, unsure for now.

This could be a great idea to keep people from quiting. Although it will add a lot of more work into checks before the race. It should even the field a bit more.

 

[Denilson]

Yea, I hear you Eric.

BUT, ballast can not be set by the difference between the drivers participating. If the field is equal enough, the system we are using now is fine.

Just because it's a great difference in skill between drivers, does not justify a too agressive ballast system.

Remy won 2/6 races, which gives a winning rate of 33%. It's pretty much, sure. But he's an alien, so it makes sence. By making the ballast system too aggressive, it will only lead to slower driver that wins a race (since the faster ones are much more heavy after roun 2-3), and then, he'll be stuck in the back for several more races with his heavy ballast..

 

[KamyKaze1098]

I tested briefly an Standard NSX at the same weight of my Lexus and less 11 HP and I beat my time by .500 with default settings except aero which was on max and in only 2 laps that weren't that great. Car felt more gripy. Probably better aero than GT 300.

 

[Paginas1]

Wow alot to read.

Just a quick add to ballast i think we should use it during quali its almost the same guys at the top every time which makes it alot easier for them during the race to escape even with some ballast on... e.g. remy during Nurgburg he escaped to quickly at start while the rest of us was fighting for positions then i started keeping same times or gaining on him during the later part of race

 

[Masi_23]

Yea, I hear you Eric.

BUT, ballast can not be set by the difference between the drivers participating. If the field is equal enough, the system we are using now is fine.

Just because it's a great difference in skill between drivers, does not justify a too agressive ballast system.

Remy won 2/6 races, which gives a winning rate of 33%. It's pretty much, sure. But he's an alien, so it makes sence. By making the ballast system too aggressive, it will only lead to slower driver that wins a race (since the faster ones are much more heavy after roun 2-3), and then, he'll be stuck in the back for several more races with his heavy ballast..

Well yeah, that's the point, isn't it? Using ballast to give the slower guys more chances to win, evening out the competition with regards to both skill and performance of the cars - resulting to a much more competitive championship for everyone involved. Even if the field and cars are a lot more even than we have now, i still think that a much aggressive system should be put in place.

So to summarize, i still stand by my proposal - but im only 1 person. Majority decides.

👍

 

[OwensRacing]

To whom is this directed?

You of course.

 

[Denilson]

Well yeah, that's the point, isn't it? Using ballast to give the slower guys more chances to win, evening out the competition with regards to both skill and performance of the cars - resulting to a much more competitive championship for everyone involved. Even if the field and cars are a lot more even than we have now, i still think that a much aggressive system should be put in place.

So to summarize, i still stand by my proposal - but im only 1 person. Majority decides.

👍

Yes, that is the point of ballast..

BUT, what I'm trying to say is that you can not only focus on one side of the coin.
I hear you about opening up for a slower driver to be able to compete about the top positions from one race to another.. But the biggest reason the drivers in the bottom of the tables do not earn top position points is part because we are so many drivers in this league, and part because the level of commitment is different.. If you do not practice, and just show once in a while for a "quick race", it's only common sence that that driver wont end up in the top.

Also: A penalty to 3 drivers (or 6 drivers for that matter) would not in any way help the rest of the participants too much to claim a top position.. It's simply too many driver partcipating to use a penalty system like the one you suggested.. There will always be a group of drivers that are just behind the aliens that will claim those positions. And when those races are done, the drivers who got the first round of ballast will be back on track, and the "bottom" drivers still wont win.

If the level of commitment was at the same level thruout the participators, and the genaral level of talent more equaly spread, your aggressive ballast system would be a good one in my book. But that's not the way it is at the moment. The slower drivers will always end up in the bottom.. The "mid pack" is way to skilled for anything else to happend. And as things are now, the "mid pack" are the ones who start winning. RedReevos at Indy, me at Suzuka, KamyKaze at Suzuka and so on.
And keep in mind that quali is still done without the ballast. That fact alone keeps the slower drivers from the podiums.

Also, remember that we discuss a Relegation / promotion system for next season, where the 2 first driver in D2 move up, and the bottom 2 drivers in D1 get relegated. So with that in mind, it will even more separate the faster drivers. If we walk that line (I'm all for it) the slower drivers wont have a shot at the top positions either way.

And regarding the - / + hp thing: If we implement this system, we need to fit all cars with upgrades so that we are able to increase / decrease power. To make something like that possible, we will have to do completely new testing of the cars, and their PP's / level of allowed mods.
I did put in A LOT (Took me a month, roughly) of testing prior this season to get the cars equal, and I'm really pleased with the way I managed to get them all equal, and disireable.
The only thing we need to do prior season 3 is to tweak some of them a tad. ie. the NSX's will probably be downgraded, along with the Zand perhaps 1 or 2 PPs off from the Lexus as well. The CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA will also have to be looked at, but it's not a matter of big changes.. Just small, small tweaks to get the selection just right. I don't want to throw that work out the window.
Thanks to Aderrrm who tested the GT300 field. 👍
Same kind of small tweaks have to be done here as well.

As of now, we got 6 winners in 7 races in both classes. And the list of driver obtaining ballast is growing bigger and bigger.. And remember that we still got 4 more rounds.
And also, when counting the points without the 3 worst results, you'll see that we got 2 very even tables.

I think that's an awesome outcome.

Don't get me wrong Eric, I totally understand your vision.. And I share them with you to some degree.. It's just that we need to think all of this thru. Especially the parts where we already got a good systems (at least in my book).
To make any major chanes to parts that are fine is something that we really need to think thru before comming to any decitions.
And IF we decide to make the changes, it will have to be a better result from it. There's no need to push thru changes that in the end does not contribute to the overall experiance compared to what we got at the moment.
I'd say, season 3 should more be like a polished version of season 2, not a complete overhaul, cause the series is good.. No doubt about that.
Perhaps try the rules that are suggested for WSGTC in other series (ie V8 supercar championship), and from the outcome in that series, add them to WSGTC.

 

[KamyKaze1098]

To awser a question from Masi. Yes I'm thinking on buying F1 2011. Maybe we can do some races together.

Denilson has a point on HP figures. The Ballast we can try on the V8's.

 

[Masi_23]

@ Dennis - A more refined ballast system:

Rules:

- Max ballast is +100kg and minimum is -50kg.
- All cars begin with 50kg ballast to start the season.
- Ballast carries over to qualifying.
- You must finish within 2 laps of the winner to be affected by the ballast (ie. no more than 2 laps behind).
- Ballast will stay with you for the whole season.
- It will vary depending on your results.​

About the Power (HP) Ballast - scrapped.



Side Note: We should really do an advertising blitz before Season 3 to attract more drivers. Also, i wouldn't mind shelling out some real money for added incentive - but it wouldn't be the funds itself - possibly Gran Turismo or Super GT attire/accessories than can be bought online.

Next: Divisional System - should we scrap it? To be continued...

_____________________________________​

UPDATE:

DIVISIONAL QUALIFIER - the point of it is to produce more exciting racing by pitting the fastest racers against each other,
but seeing as we are planning to implement a more aggressive ballast system, like Dennis pointed out, it is a conflicting idea.

Option 1: Scrap Divisional Qualifier and implement new Ballast System.
Option 2: Scrap new Ballast system and implement Divisional Qualifier.

So it's either one or the other.​

DIVISIONAL QUALIFIER

I. Before the season starts, the Drivers Registry will run a mandatory Qualifier. It will be held through live sessions in the Supervision of a Steward/s.

All drivers will run similar cars (1 car for GT500, 1 car for GT300). Tire wear will be turned off. Each driver will be given 5 laps. The top 3 laps will count.
Those laps will be added and averaged. That average will be your time. This method favors consistent drivers rather than 1-lap-wonders (hot-lappers).​

II. Drivers will be separated through 2 divisions. Division 1 will consist of 8 drivers. Division 2 will consist the rest (regardless of how many drivers are left).

Division I. 1st - 7th
Division II. 8th on down​

III. Late registry

Allowed - but qualifier is mandatory. Once the qualifier is done, you are relegated automatically to Division 2 regardless of your total time.​

IV. Super Lap Qualifying

Division 1 drivers will battle it out for the Top 7 spots.
Division 2 drivers will battle the last 7 spots.​

V. Raceday

Single Class - Division 1 and Division 2 drivers will be in the same room.
Mixed Class - Division 1 drivers from GT500 and GT300 will be in Room 1. Division 2 drivers in Room 2.​

VI. After the Race

Bottom 2 finishers from Division 1 will be demoted to Division 2.
Top 2 finishers from Division 2 will be promoted to Division 1.​

 

[Paginas1]

I like the idea about the ballast masi, sounds good and think it could really work. Also like the idea that its used for qualifying.


Im 50/50 about DIVISIONAL QUALIFIER need to read over properly when im less tired lol

 

[NEPALII]

The ballast sounds great, having ups and downs on weight! Love it. The divisional qualifier not so much, because there are drivers who are fast at some tracks and others at other tracks so you cant really tell. At Indy, I was 9th on qualy and now at Laguna Im currently 2nd. See the difference? Its hard to tell.

 

[Denilson]

I'm leaving my comments about the divisional qualifyer and ballas system for later. Need tt think it over.

I do want to rise one question though.

It's about the schedule.

I think that by running a season EVERY friday for 10-12 weeks keeps some drivers away from staying commited. It also puts a lot of pressure on Admins to keep everything up to date.
This is a pretty huge championship. Think we've had around 60 drivers around all in all.
To spread out the season more, closer to the real deal would make it easier to commit te every race. Yes, the season is long, and I do know that a full season (1 year) is ages here at GTP.
I do think that we should try to lower the pace, and do it with more perfection. I, my self find it hard to commit every Friday night (Friday night people!! ) for 10-12 weeks. Sure, I can drop a few races, but it's still a pretty huge commitment. By holding races with a few weeks a part would only do our (Real) social life good. Especially for us Euro guys who actually race in the middle of a Friday night.

And in between the WSGTC races, we can hold other, shorter series on the same timeslot. But only when no WSGTC race is planned.

So we will create other series under the WSGTC banner for all of us to take part in during the same timeslot.. For those who want to race every week, there will always be a championship race of some kind running. But not as complex as the WSGTC.

It's just an idea that I wanted to put out there. I imagine that by doing like this, we can attract drivers such as JPzer who can't participate (cause of a giiiiirl) every Friday afternoon. If we race every other, or third week, he can perhaps send his girl somewhere for a few hours..

The shedule needs to be up early ofc to make it possible to plan a bit better.

 

[Masi_23]

Here's my take Dennis...

I like a shorter season. Preferably 10 weeks straight with no breaks (No final shoot-out). 2-3 dropped races.
I think that's fair enough. If you can't make a race, well, that's what the dropped races are for, isn't it?

Reasonings
- Well, it's short. No dragging for months on end
- Shorter season means more frequent updates of the series (improvements after the season)
- No off-weeks keeps everyone on their toes, keeps people at attention = more participation​

Season structure:
10 race schedule (2-3 dropped races)
1 weeks per race
10 weeks total for the whole championship

Long-term:
2 1/2 month season
1 month brake, build-up, & preparation
2 1/2 month season
1 month brake, build-up, & preparation

So that's about 3-4 seasons for a whole year ​

However, if people prefer a longer season, i would think 8 races is enough - same as it is in real life.
That would equate to about 4 months which i think is long enough for most.

Season structure:
8 race schedule (no dropped races)
2 weeks per race
16 weeks total for the whole championship

Long-term:
4 month season
1-2 month brake, build-up, & preparation
4 month season
1-2 month brake, build-up, & preparation

About two seasons per year ​

That's my .02


p.s. Too bad about JPzer... although as far as i can recall, he mentioned getting a new job (schedule) as his main reason for withdrawing. The girl as the latter.

 

[Adam41]

I like a shorter season. Preferably 10 weeks straight with no breaks (No final shoot-out). 2-3 dropped races.
I think that's fair enough. If you can't make a race, well, that's what the dropped races are for, isn't it?

Reasonings
- Well, it's short. No dragging for months on end
- Shorter season means more frequent updates of the series (improvements after the season)
- No off-weeks keeps everyone on their toes, keeps people at attention = more participation​

There is a God! The most sense spoken in this thread so far. In my opinion of course.

- About the ballast system, here's what I think. It doesn't work as well as it should now. I have no idea why you lot are against using ballast for qualifying because guess what, the faster guys always end up qualifying at the front. That means, even with their ballast, they have a clear road in front of them meaning they can use the optimum strategy and run away from trouble e.g. a turn 1 crash mid-pack.

We should do 60/40/20 for both classes. If it means some drivers hit 200kg mid-season, guess what... that's fine because they're winning too much. That means he'll struggle more than he did before now that he has 200kg for the remaining races. Ballast would be used in qualifying aswell.

About Masi's proposed ballast system: I don't really like the thought of starting off with 50kg and some drivers losing weight. It will take much longer to implement and do checks for. Plus, I'm not sure why all of the bottom end drivers who come 14th, 15th, 16th etc get -20kg. Drivers who finish in them positions, sadly, will hardly ever get a D1 win. That means all of them bottom end drivers were racing with 50kg ballast, and now they're all racing with 30kg. You might say, well they'll compete better against the drivers who are further up the standings! Well, let's have a look... like I said before, they'll never be competing against D1 winners. Maybe they'll do better against people who are in 9th and 10th position! Oh wait, they get -20kg ballast too. You're creating more work for yourselves than you need to in my opinion.

I kinda like the sound of a division qualifier, but I think they way it works now is fine where people may qualifying in D1 or D2 and they have to put in a good lap to stay in D1 or even put in a good lap to make the jump to D1.

 

[Denilson]

Here's my take Dennis...

I like a shorter season. Preferably 10 weeks straight with no breaks (No final shoot-out). 2-3 dropped races.
I think that's fair enough. If you can't make a race, well, that's what the dropped races are for, isn't it?

Reasonings
- Well, it's short. No dragging for months on end
- Shorter season means more frequent updates of the series (improvements after the season)
- No off-weeks keeps everyone on their toes, keeps people at attention = more participation​

Season structure:
10 race schedule (2-3 dropped races)
1 weeks per race
10 weeks total for the whole championship

Long-term:
2 1/2 month season
1 month brake, build-up, & preparation
2 1/2 month season
1 month brake, build-up, & preparation

So that's about 3-4 seasons for a whole year ​

However, if people prefer a longer season, i would think 8 races is enough - same as it is in real life.
That would equate to about 4 months which i think is long enough for most.

Season structure:
8 race schedule (no dropped races)
2 weeks per race
16 weeks total for the whole championship

Long-term:
4 month season
1-2 month brake, build-up, & preparation
4 month season
1-2 month brake, build-up, & preparation

About two seasons per year ​

That's my .02


p.s. Too bad about JPzer... although as far as i can recall, he mentioned getting a new job (schedule) as his main reason for withdrawing. The girl as the latter.

Just for discussion:
- Why does the season have to be short?
- How will it help prticipation?
- A fast pace attracts drivers who race for 2 rounds and then leave. We got plenty of examples for that. Is it possible that we'll attract a perhaps smaller group, but more commited?
- I want the quality of the championship to keep participation up. I don't want to keep drivers "on thier toes". The drivers competing should be on thier toes on their own.

Generally, I think we need to take a step up the ladder. If the championship is at a higher level, the participation will help it self. Does that make any sence at all?

 

[Masi_23]

Just for discussion:
- Why does the season have to be short?
- How will it help participation?
- A fast pace attracts drivers who race for 2 rounds and then leave. We got plenty of examples for that. Is it possible that we'll attract a perhaps smaller group, but more committed?
- I want the quality of the championship to keep participation up. I don't want to keep drivers "on their toes". The drivers competing should be on their toes on their own.

Generally, I think we need to take a step up the ladder. If the championship is at a higher level, the participation will help it self. Does that make any sense at all?

- Firstly, it's just a personal preference. I personally don't like a very long season.
- A shorter season should keep people's attention at participating. As an example, a few of the GT300 drivers stated that it kinda went stale when we had the off-week and they forgot to even care about the next race.
- Please give an example if you don't mind.

I know where you're getting at, but we need more feedback from the others to be able to decide. My concern is this; initially we get a solid base of drivers, and as the season goes (a year long) people will drop out one by one, slowly - BUT! they do get replaced by new drivers... by season's end, we end up with a totally different grid (with the possibility of having a very long drivers table). At-least that's the way my speculation goes.