::::: World Super GT Championship - [Thread 7 Closed] :::::

[RamoSapiens]

Giving out penalties for every bump isn't what I'd want to see - I'd expect to see the result when people cross the line be the same as the official result, unless someone had really done something bad enough to warrant a DSQ or 25 second penalty - it's not going to be fun if we spend a day or two after the race to work out the "actual" result after penalties. When we've used Light damage, the racing hasn't been anything like as clean - people know they can risk a move, knowing that if it doesn't work out, worst comes to worst they'll only have damage for 3 or 4 corners before it works out. With heavy damage, it forces you into making good overtaking moves, promoting clean driving. Damage to one car generally means damage to another, and none of us want to take ourselves out of the race - Wilhelm in this example destroyed his own race too.

If someone outbrakes themselves into the first corner, even on light damage you'll still find yourself at the back of the pack, it happens in real life and it's going to happen here every now and again - that one person was just unlucky to be the victim this time around.

I don't think we should change back to light damage just because one person got taken out of the race by a mistake - we're only human after all, mistakes happen - in the GT300 race, our start was perfect, no contact, no complaints about the damage system. So.

In my opinion racing a GT300 with Racing Hard feels the same
that GT500 with Racing Softs. Maybe more speed/less grip with the hard tires
is the biggest reason with incidents in GT500.

Were not goin to give penalties for every bump in the Nordic Series,
only if it affects the victims race (bumped off the track). Small contacts is part of the race.

 

[KamyKaze1098]

Giving out penalties for every bump isn't what I'd want to see - I'd expect to see the result when people cross the line be the same as the official result, unless someone had really done something bad enough to warrant a DSQ or 25 second penalty - it's not going to be fun if we spend a day or two after the race to work out the "actual" result after penalties. When we've used Light damage, the racing hasn't been anything like as clean - people know they can risk a move, knowing that if it doesn't work out, worst comes to worst they'll only have damage for 3 or 4 corners before it works out. With heavy damage, it forces you into making good overtaking moves, promoting clean driving. Damage to one car generally means damage to another, and none of us want to take ourselves out of the race - Wilhelm in this example destroyed his own race too.

If someone outbrakes themselves into the first corner, even on light damage you'll still find yourself at the back of the pack, it happens in real life and it's going to happen here every now and again - that one person was just unlucky to be the victim this time around.

I don't think we should change back to light damage just because one person got taken out of the race by a mistake - we're only human after all, mistakes happen - in the GT300 race, our start was perfect, no contact, no complaints about the damage system. So.

👍

Agree.

We should use Heavy damage. People just gotta learn to drive carefully. If we were racing in real life, we wouldn't drive so agressive. Then we shouldn't do it here. It's true it's just a game, but i would like to race with people who can drive like they would in real life, being aware of the risks and of other people in track.

 

[MaccGyver]

I agree we need to do something about the first corner in gt500's but i don't want to lose heavy damage.
Once out of the first corner and everybody settles down into their positions the racing is way more clean and intense.
I have been pulling out of overtakes and giving up corners alot easier with heavy dameage than i would be with light damage.


A solution could be that we could have a progressive rolling start or sumthing like it.
Say after the rolling start we are not allowed to use 5th or 6th gear until you are through the first corner.
It would slow down first corner entry speed and hopefully stop people over shooting braking points.

That might not be feasible but we can come up with something 👍

EDIT: or if somebody barrels into the first corner recklessly they dont get any points for the race and start at the back for the next race.

 

[Denilson]

I personaly don't think that we should remove the heavy damage. The driving gets so much cleaner. What we could do about issus with turn 1 (at all tracks) is to judge incidents very strict.

We could use a much more strict penaltysystem for incidents during lap 1.
How about double the penalty?

If you commit a felony, giving 20 sec. penalty, if it happens during lap 1, the penlty will be 40 sec.
A, 25 sec penalty would lead to DQ
a 10 sec penalty would lead to 20 sec..

You get my point..

I do understand the issue for the unlycky driver getting hit. But that's just racing I'm afraid..
Thing is, that drivers that do take it easy even with damage set to light will have a huge disadvantage in the case where penalty is light. There is nothing more annoying to see, than a wreckless driver who bumps other cars all the time without loosing any speed or pace.

And about the Indy race. I really feel for Sail IC (Johnkiller2), cause that was just so sad to see..
But (I'm not trying to be a d i c k) Nycrom and Paginas, I actually really think that you could've avoid your car getting damaged with a slower pace.

Not trying to blow my own horn or anything. But I started in 6th place, but by the end of lap 1, I was in 8th even dogh I did pass Johnkiller2 and Paginas when they turned in to the pits.. So you could say I dropped 4 places during the first lap.. I did not want to get involved with any incidents so I decided to back off.

What I'm trying to say is that in about 75% of the incidents, you could actually avoid it by beeing careful. And even if you have to give up a position, you did not obtain any damage. In most cases it all comes down to what kind of situation you are getting youself in to.

 

[maSonn09]

If i had pitted a lap earlier i could of avoided the contact with Sonic and possibly would of been in the run for a podium finish.

 

[Denilson]

Anyone interested in some testing and maybe a race or two at La Sarthe?

 

[monoha]

Anyone interested in some testing and maybe a race or two at La Sarthe?

I am.. if I wasn't running the 24 hour Le Mans B-spec on the 17th hour 👎

 

[ultrap13]

Yeah, agree with you African Kat - looks the same from my replay. That corner is a difficult place to pass, but there is no reason to be turning in (I guess trying to cover off the corner?) that early. Also had some trouble lapping Shrugging_Atlas. Expected him to move over at some point but never did, seemed he expected me to make a full pass - even tried to outbrake me into Turn 1 after I came past him on the straight. Wasn't really a big deal for me since I was aware of what was happening but worth a mention for the future.

#1 I saw you coming and was ready to let you go by but when you finally caught up to me you were moving erratically left to right, I didn't know which side you wanted to go on so I just held my line and slowed down for you.

#2 I didn't try to pass you ... I was using your draft to get tow and in order to avoid hitting you at the end of the straight, I moved out of the tow which I guess you incorrectly interpret as me trying to overtake ... I didn't try to pass and I didn't hit you.

#3 Part of the problem may have been lag...I saw everyone move smoothly but you I saw jumping all over.

#4 As far as the incident where I got rear ended...there was a third car in front, an RX7 that started turning in on me which is why I needed to turn in order to avoid rear ending him...Unfortunately Afrikan_kat didn't try to avoid me ..or perhaps couldn't beause of lag.

 

[ultrap13]

I definetly wont ram someone intentionally. I will look at the replay and reply later, however from what i remember happening u were extremely aggresive when overtake and were making alot of contact with me - so much so , that i backed off so u could pass.

i do remember a solid bump and small bumps made but it was more from your car movement (using a controller?) or u braking too early.

I did bump Scanny Flick when i missed a braking point as he said and that WAS COMPLETELY MY ERROR.

I apologize Scanny.👍

I think recently we've been getting new guys that are not as precise and it has been untidy

EDIT: I have looked at the replay concerning the incident above and can confirm that it was as i remember - @Shrugging Atlas turned into me - i held my line. Stewards can look at the replay - lap 5 - and confirm.
I believe that even the pic provided by @Atlas proves he was turning in much to early for that bend.

Define irony: A guy who takes out 2 cars out of the race by rear ending them calls someone else "exteremely aggressive."

I was forced to turn in EARLY because the RX7 in front started turning in on me. I knew enough NOT to be too aggressive and attempt a kamikaze passing move so I backed off to avoid contact with the RX7...only to get hit from behind by you...calling me aggressive...whatever. You want to tell me you didn't see the RX7 in front? Did you really think you were going the sneak in on the inside and we'd all go 3 wide through that turn? Also, keep in mind this pic is taken AFTER the impact, I started SLIDING as a result of the bump.

Here's the exact same moment from another angle:

BTW I am using a steering wheel. I don't recall making contact with anyone else at any time during the race. I know for a fact I didn't cause anyone else or even myself any damage at any point in the race, unlike you.

 

[CaptainFalcon89]

Sonic-_-89b and C-Falcon89 are way ahead of me when crossing the startline. (Yes they should be behind me) 20 sec penalty.

Clarification on rolling start procedure is required due to someone who was a steward awarded penalties to me and sonic because the driver fell asleep at the start. 6 car lengths is the gap here.

The rule should not protect drivers who do this

 

[Denilson]

All discussions about incidents will be thru PM. We do not want a thread full of discussions about raceincidents. Try to sort it out thru PM please 👍

 

[MaccGyver]

I concur about the start.
If somebody falls asleep you shouldn't have to hold off accelerating till they wake up.

I had the same thing at Laguna i think.
I had to hold off because the car in front missed the start so the car on my outside passed me out.

There must be a car length rule or something about rolling starts?
If you fall back too many car lengths you are fair game to the driver behind.

 

[CaptainFalcon89]

I concur about the start.
If somebody falls asleep you shouldn't have to hold off accelerating till they wake up.

I had the same thing at Laguna i think.
I had to hold off because the car in front missed the start so the car on my outside passed me out.

There must be a car length rule or something about rolling starts?
If you fall back too many car lengths you are fair game to the driver behind.

That is exactly my point!!!!

 

[Denilson]

I am.. if I wasn't running the 24 hour Le Mans B-spec on the 17th hour 👎

That sux 👎

Let's hope Bob take the win 👍

 

[Denilson]

I concur about the start.
If somebody falls asleep you shouldn't have to hold off accelerating till they wake up.

I had the same thing at Laguna i think.
I had to hold off because the car in front missed the start so the car on my outside passed me out.

There must be a car length rule or something about rolling starts?
If you fall back too many car lengths you are fair game to the driver behind.

In general, having rules such as "car lengths" in an online game only leads to discussions. That's why the rules must be simple. The rules about the startprocedure is wery clear, and if someone overtakes you before the startline, just report it to the stewards. 👍

This rule also keeps the problems we often see in turn 1 to a minimum if followed.

 

[maSonn09]

In general, having rules such as "car lengths" in an online game only leads to discussions. That's why the rules must be simple. The rules about the startprocedure is wery clear, and if someone overtakes you before the startline, just report it to the stewards. 👍

This rule also keeps the problems we often see in turn 1 to a minimum if followed.

Well in that case the people who feel the need to type a message, slowing them down, before the start line really need to stop doing that. As suggested before, it ruins the space between cars and especially at the start line it becomes confusing when somebody is typing and the leader is already setting off.

 

[Denilson]

Well in that case the people who feel the need to type a message, slowing them down, before the start line really need to stop doing that. As suggested before, it ruins the space between cars and especially at the start line it becomes confusing when somebody is typing and the leader is already setting off.

Who was typing a message?

If it's me you are refering to, I was on the back straight when typin during the formationlap because I had to ask tony1311 to leave (because of ghoast car issues) so that you and the rest of us could enjoy a good race... Sorry if that was a problem for you. I'll try to do better next time..

There is also no need what so ever to be in a hurry to pass a car during the formationlap.. If you (or anyone else for that matter) notice that the car ahead of you is typing (probably an important message) just back off.. I can't see the problem.. I do understan that it becomes a problem if someone is typing during the actual start.. But I did not do that. You don't need to be in a hurry during the formationlap, cool down.. The leader waits for everyone by slowing down.. Exactly what happened at Indy yesterday..

 

[Andil]

Ideally if there was such a gap to the car in front, as in that screenshot, you'd do a restart - as in real racing if the formation is poor, the whole field can be waved around for a second lap to "try again".

But since we don't have that, people just need to be awake - if there is a pass before the line it should be taken up with a steward, but then the decision should be made as to whether there was an excessive gap (say 5+ car lengths) between the cars. You should be really bunched up as we head towards the line, the gap in the screenshot is way too much and understandable for those passes to have been made, imo.

Also @Shrugging_Atlas: Fair enough man, I don't think I should host in future because as I said before the race, I didn't think my net would be up to the task. I think most people were fine, but it's clear lag caused a bit of confusion here - no hard feelings from me 👍

 

[Denilson]

Ideally if there was such a gap to the car in front, as in that screenshot, you'd do a restart - as in real racing if the formation is poor, the whole field can be waved around for a second lap to "try again".

But since we don't have that, people just need to be awake - if there is a pass before the line it should be taken up with a steward, but then the decision should be made as to whether there was an excessive gap (say 5+ car lengths) between the cars. You should be really bunched up as we head towards the line, the gap in the screenshot is way too much and understandable for those passes to have been made, imo.

Also @Shrugging_Atlas: Fair enough man, I don't think I should host in future because as I said before the race, I didn't think my net would be up to the task. I think most people were fine, but it's clear lag caused a bit of confusion here - no hard feelings from me 👍

About the screenshot.. I just took that pic to proof that I was overtaken before the startline.. I'm fed up with drivers that don't respect the rules so I lifted of my throttle, that's why the gap is so big in that pic...

NOTE: C-Falcon did not just overtake me, he overtook XsApollo, me and was on the outside on hes way to pass Sonic-_-89b as well. I have also watched the replay several times and I can asure you guys that you would understand the situation.

 

[Stevisiov]

About the screenshot.. I just took that pic to proof that I was overtaken before the startline.. I'm fed up with drivers that don't respect the rules so I lifted of my throttle, that's why the gap is so big in that pic...

NOTE: C-Falcon did not just overtake me, he overtook XsApollo, me and was on the outside on hes way to pass Sonic-_-89b as well. I have also watched the replay several times and I can asure you guys that you would understand the situation.

I just watched my replay, and Falcon should not be alongside Sonic, he should not be ahead of XsApollo and he should not be ahead of Chorda, it's not really a case Chorda and XsApollo being asleep, Falcon had overtaken before Chorda and and XsApollo have backed off.

The screenshot is misleading.

 

[Denilson]

About the penaltys. I try hard to do a good job as a host and steward. It's really hard to judge situations, so I rather not give out penaltys att all, unless someone sends me a report of an incident, and I find it beeing an illegal action.

All the time it takes to prepare a race, keeping everybody updated, make sure the starting grid is correct, rewieving replays, take pictures, and write a race report.. It took me about 7 hours yesterday. I don't put down that kind of time to "look for" situoations to penalize. Belive me! I do it because I think it's fun, and that racers in this seres are clean and fast and deserves a race that is controlled. I try to do the best as I can because you are all worth it!

Now, to get rid of all speculations and drama in this thread at the moment, I'll give you detailed information about the penaltys we have discussed. A LOT OF PICTURES!

False start:
This is how the lineup looked like.

Already in the banked turn, about 1000 feet before the pole car reaches the startline, C-Falcon89 (RAYBRING NSX) is in hes way to pass XsApollo (Yellowhat GT-R).

This is on the main straight, still about 7-800 feet to the startline, C-Falcon has already passed XsApollo.

In this picture, it's obvious that Sonic-_-89b have no idea if he's ahead of me or not, and C-Falcon89 is really up Sonic-_-89's ***.

Now, I got some pictures taken at the exact same time from different wievs.
1. Still a pretty long way until the pole car reaches the startline..

2. From another angle. At this point I'm pretty upset, that how much you try to make people fully understand the rules, there is always someone who just don't care.. In this pic, I see C-Falcon89 (when pushing the sidewiev button) alongside me, and Sonic-_-89 ahead of me. In this situation I know that C-Falcon89 must have overtaken XsApollo as well.

Brakelights... Why??

When the polecar flores it... A few pics from different angles at the exact same time. At this time I was already overtaken by 2 cars.

The situation in turn 1, last lap. Between GTP_Sigma, chorda and C-Falcon89.
Dead even when braking into turn 1.

GTP_Sigma had fresher tyres, so he could hold hes braking just a little bit longer.. Making him pass chorda and C-Falcon89 by a couple of feet.

So far, so good..

Still........looking good, but this is where things start to happen.. C-Falcon89's speed is to great, and can't keep the car on the inside...

resulting in a crash wid GTP_Sigma who just tryed to stay on the outher line.

In this picture, moments before the accident, you can't see C-Falcon89's brakelights.. He did let go of hes brakes when he noticed that GTP_Sigma was on hes way to reach the corner first. That's why hes speed got to high for him to handle, causing the crash.

 

[ultrap13]

Official Race - Circuit de la Sarthe
February 11, 2011

Mandatory Roll-Call!
Copy, Paste, and add your name!


GT500
chorda - Nissan AUTECH MOTUL GT-R
faqoldschool - Takata Dome NSX
maSonn09 - Takata Dome NSX
XsApollo - YellowHat GTR
qczhao - Takata Dome NSX
sonic-_-89b - Arta NSX
boltzz_ - Petronas 430
wilhelm198824 - Xanavi Nismo GT-R
Nycrom - Lexus Eonos SC430
BiffyClyro93 - Lexus Petronas SC430
GTP_PaggyDaggy - Lexus DENSO Dunlop Sard
Paginas - Lexus DENSO Dunlop Sard
Centura - Nissan AUTECH MOTUL GT-R
OwensRacing - Nissan Xanavi Nismo Z
Vaga - Nissan Xanavi Nismo Z
C-Falcon89 - Honda Raybrig NSX
GTP_Sigma - Calsonic GT-R
NilsUrban - Xanavi Nismo GTR
johnkiller2 - Nissan Xanavi Z
GTP_monoha - Nissan Motul GTR

GT300
GTP_Masicampo - Lexus IS350
cranky123 - Autobacs Arta Garaiya
cranky456 - RE Amemiya AsparaDrink RX-7
KamyKaze1098 - Toyota Wedssports Celica
Moieman - RE Amemiya Asparadrink RX-7
kroxsox - RE Amemiya AsparaDrink RX-7
GTP_Senninha - Autobacs Arta Garaiya
ffocus2008 - RE Amemiya AsparaDrink RX-7
eppe00 - RE Amemiya AsparaDrink RX-7
Scanny_Flick - Autobacs Arta Garaiya
donoman3000 - RE Amemiya AsparaDrink RX-7
I_GreyhounD_I - RE Amemiya AsparaDrink RX-7
GTP_african_kat - Arta Garaiya 08
GTP_Aderrrm - APEX MR-S
Shrugging_Atlas - RE Amemiya AsparaDrink RX-7

 

[Paginas1]

wow great photos, i see you have taken alot of time trying to sort this out. yes i agree the rules/pentalties need to be sorted but not make them too complicated as it will cause more confusion.

No overtaking before start/finish line needs to stick as i see falcon overdone that big time.

We have got 1 more preseason race left we need to get the starts sorted. we are getting there. all we need to do is bunch up, i made sure i could see johnkiller's front left wheel i think thats enough of a gap and it looks professional on the photos hehe

 

[RamoSapiens]

Just noticed that I picked up the wrong car (the wsgtc one, with NO rigidity improvement) in yesterdays GT300 race in the Finnish Championships...

Don´t really understand why it isn´t allowed here...
with owning two identical cars these mixups could easily
happen to anyone here also (driving by mistake the one
with the rigidity improvement in a wsgtc event).

 

[Paginas1]

Just noticed that I picked up the wrong car (the wsgtc one, with NO rigidity improvement) in yesterdays GT300 race in the Finnish Championships...

Don´t really understand why it isn´t allowed here...
with owning two identical cars these mixups could easily
happen to anyone here also (driving by mistake the one
with the rigidity improvement in a wsgtc event).

thats a rules that i think we need to allow, as we cannot tell by replays if they have it installed.

 

[MaccGyver]

I'm at least 9th position when the cars take off
I should of been 7th..
Also the grid didn't line up correctly because JohnKiller started on the wrong side of the track.
If thats the way it was started i really should of been on the inside of chorda.
1,3,5,7,9 etc are suppose to start on the outside and even numbers on the inside.

 

[CaptainFalcon89]

I was the one sending the messages about the penalties I received, which I still feel that shouldn't of received because Denilson backed up the field as he knew he would be protected by the jump start rule, which in my honest opinion is a grey area and open interpretation and this is why I received the penalty not because I "jumped it", if you care to look at the start picture again Denilson is 6-7 car lengths behind the Nissan he should of started behind.

My interpretation is that if the person infront is more than a car length behind the car infront he has fallen asleep, which was the case here, which caused apollo to slow up and be passed by me, because I was maintaining my pace to the car infront. Brakes were on simply because of the fact I didn't want to ruin Sonic's or my race before the start, nothing else.

The only time I've seen someone penalised for this is when the poleman was 7 car lengths ahead of second place man before the start.

Regarding I was passed Sigma even though I had gone wide overtaking the pair of them, me going wide was a simple misjudgement, but the penalty was even though I was 3/4 ahead of Sigma, That's like saying "Oh lets go for an overtake. Oh hold on, no lets not go for it because I might get penalised even if contact was made AFTER I passed him!" That's not racing, that's just plain lunacy. We should be allowed to race freely without putting others in danger which in this case I did not. Sigma could of maintained his line, but went off the track to get me a penalty. Also If had continued my braking all 3 of us would of spun, then I would of accepted the consequences and taken the penalty, but that didn't happen!

The reason this post has come is because I would not of received these penalties for those incidents had I been racing for real.

Maccgvyer, The poleman does start on the inside, its a regulation in motorsport unless its a standing start, where its on the racing line.

 

[Sail IC]

This will be a length one. Masi, Paginas, Imari, and I are stewards. This will be an example how one of the stewards will be thinking judging a racing incident.

First the easier one, the overtaking at lap 19.
In at least 9 out of 10 cases, the overtaking car will receive the penalty in case of significant contact. In this case, Falcon (overtaking) entered the corner with excess speed, failed to take a normal racing line, consequently pushing Sigma off track. Overtaking cannot be as we see it in real racing on TV as in the game we have no time to change cockpit view and look sideways in the breaking zone or middle of a corner.

The starting situation is more tricky as I don't think we are clear on all the rules, so let me take a stab how I think the starting rules should be.

1, All cars should stay in two stright lines prior to passing the starting line.
2, Distance between cars should be 2 car lenghts and should not be excessively deviated either way
3, The poleman should keep a maximum 100km/h speed in must be very even. No variation
4, The poleman should are allowed to accelerate no earlier than 3 carlengths prior to starting line
5, The outside row should be slightly behind the inside row to ensure the inside car is not passed prior to starting line
6, No passing before starting line (given if you follow above)

What went wrong at this start. Quite a lot.

I as poleman probably hit the throttle too early which set the inside lane under acceleration prior to the outside lane (rule 4) causing issues down the grid .

Chorda left an excess gap to the car in front (rule 2) causing issues down the grid

Sonic should not have overtaken Chorda (rule 6).

Falcon left the straight line position (rule 1), is too close to Sonic (rule 2). He also overtaken Apollo and Chorda (rule 6)

This might look complicated but its really common sense. Before reading below, bear in mind that the rules above was not set at this event, so its probably not fair that they should be given.

So in my view, the clearest offender at this start are Falcon and Chorda. Not so clear and harder to judge offenders are Sonic and johnkiller2.

This is just a stab at it. When the championship starts all cases should be dealt with on a PM bases. But as this is pre-season, its good to have an open discussion, but for the involved, pls try to leave the emotions out.

 

[CaptainFalcon89]

This will be a length one. Masi, Paginas, Imari, and I are stewards. This will be an example how one of the stewards will be thinking judging a racing incident.

First the easier one, the overtaking at lap 19.
In at least 9 out of 10 cases, the overtaking car will receive the penalty in case of significant contact. In this case, Falcon (overtaking) entered the corner with excess speed, failed to take a normal racing line, consequently pushing Sigma off track. Overtaking cannot be as we see it in real racing on TV as in the game we have no time to change cockpit view and look sideways in the breaking zone or middle of a corner.

The starting situation is more tricky as I don't think we are clear on all the rules, so let me take a stab how I think the starting rules should be.

1, All cars should stay in two stright lines prior to passing the starting line.
2, Distance between cars should be 2 car lenghts and should not be excessively deviated either way
3, The poleman should keep a maximum 100km/h speed in must be very even. No variation
4, The poleman should are allowed to accelerate no earlier than 3 carlengths prior to starting line
5, The outside row should be slightly behind the inside row to ensure the inside car is not passed prior to starting line
6, No passing before starting line (given if you follow above)

What went wrong at this start. Quite a lot.

I as poleman probably hit the throttle too early which set the inside lane under acceleration prior to the outside lane (rule 4) causing issues down the grid .

Chorda left an excess gap to the car in front (rule 2) causing issues down the grid

Sonic should not have overtaken Chorda (rule 6).

Falcon left the straight line position (rule 1), is too close to Sonic (rule 2). He also overtaken Apollo and Chorda (rule 6)

This might look complicated but its really common sense. Before reading below, bear in mind that the rules above was not set at this event, so its probably not fair that they should be given.

So in my view, the clearest offender at this start are Falcon and Chorda. Not so clear and harder to judge offenders are Sonic and johnkiller2.

This is just a stab at it. When the championship starts all cases should be dealt with on a PM bases. But as this is pre-season, its good to have an open discussion, but for the involved, pls try to leave the emotions out.

First point yes granted but hindsight is terrible thing sometimes. I was trying to avoid contact and had no idea that Sigma was there at the time.

Second point though the start procedure still needs clearing up though so drivers can't look for a get out clause in the rules, as I felt there was in this case, I didn't believe you had to be within one car length behind at the start which is where I was close to Sonic came from, as I thought it didn't apply.

I was mainly upset because that was my best performance in a pre season race even though it was unofficial and felt robbed of 2nd, but I can only blame myself to be in that situation to be honest.

 

[MaccGyver]

I didn't know the Pole sitter started on the inside on a rolling start lol
Only racing i watch is MOTO-GP , so my bad.

You can take me out of the equation then as regards to being passed before the start because i was in the completley wrong position. :S