Worst tracks of all time

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Jimlaad43
Sonoma has gradient, but that's about it. It's a good example of how people think gradient change makes a track an instant classic. It doesn't. This is a circuit which has lots of boring corners and no straights. They are all aero dependent, so in the only series' that people watch that go there, nothing happens. It doesn't flow well and looks awful. They have space to extend some of the straights but they aren't extended.

The only slow corners on the track have about 15 different configurations, all of which is worse than the previous one. Indycar uses it as the last race of the season, which is a terrible decision. It's worse than Abu Dhabi as a last race of the season because you'd at least expect something to happen at Sonoma, but it never does. NASCAR only goes to two track worth watching, and somehow Sonoma is chosen as one of the two road courses they go to. That layout skips the only corner that isn't boring, the long left hairpinny thing. It's a good corner, but when it precedes the only overtaking spot on the track, it means that aero cars then can't overtake into it.

Brands Hatch GP would be just as bad for an Indycar or F1 race, but at least the corners there are interesting and use the gradient to make them better. Sonoma is a waste of a calendar date.
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:lol: how do you define a “boring corner”??? You’re entitled to your opinion, but I also know you think Suzuka sucks, so in my opinion, your opinion on tracks isn’t worth much.

And again, I just used that Indycar video as an example...but in other categories, the track is amazing. Watch PWC TC races from there.

I also never said Sonoma was “an instant classic just because it has gradient change”. I’m just making the case that it isn’t one of the Worst Tracks of All Time.

The whole run up the hill is very challenging, one blind apex after another. The downhill through the carousel is a fun and challenging corner. The high speed essess down the back are fast and flowing...especially the old school version that NASCAR uses. The final right hand sweeper out of the essess before the final hairpin is one of the more daunting corners left in racing today (not on the Indy configuration though).

Jim, other than the hairpin an Monaco, name me a corner on a racetrack that doesn’t benefit from a car having aerodynamic downforce....

The fact you would even mention Indycar or F1 on brands hatch Indy as a comparison shows how far out to lunch you are. Might as well put an F1 car on a Kart track and say, “see, look how terrible it is.”

Not every racetrack in the world needs to be specialized for open wheeled single seaters.

 
Furinkazen
Can we all agree on something?

Baltimore and San Jose were two of the biggest racetrack design failiures ever.
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I assume it's no coincidence that both crossed over train tracks? :sly:

I should've mentioned San Jose in the OP, I've only seen 1 of 3 races there but it was some of the worst stuff ever, zero on-track overtakes.
 
It seems we're getting some "worst racetracks in video games" as well as "worst tracks in real life".

I was only going for in real life; Valencia street circuit was great in F1 2010 but what a 🤬 circuit it actually was.
 
Furinkazen
Can we all agree on something?

Baltimore and San Jose were two of the biggest racetrack design failiures ever.
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Aww what's wrong with Baltimore?* Other then the dinky little chicane it had around the end.


*not the city itself that's obvious
 
Bumping because I feel like my views need updating 5 years later.

I can't believe I didn't bring up Sochi, probably because I figured that GP2 racing at least didn't seem to completely suck there, and I might have viewed the track a lot more neutrally than I should've in general. Not only is it a poster child for plastic Tilkedromes, what it represents especially cannot be ignored with current events in mind, which probably makes it the worst of all time by default. (I see the Uralkali Haas livery the same way, even if some people might consider the color scheme to look appealing in a vacuum. Too bad life's not really a vacuum.)

In the OP I brought up the older version, but a few WTCR events richer, I can confirm the new Marrakesh is trash on a whole new level. Just like Sochi, it's a concrete canyon without a meaningful personality to it, but on top of that it actively sabotages itself by having useless chicanes and kinks right on top of corners that otherwise could produce the best passing opportunities. The 2019 round actually saw some people make moves on the first corner and get penalized for inevitable contact with the other car, completely killing any hopes of having some sort of racing for the remainder of the weekend. What a joke.

San Jose in its 2005 form is probably the worst CART track of all time. That stupid rail crossing only served to do the same thing as what Marrakesh does on a regular basis, sabotaging the track's potential best passing zone by slowing the cars down into a single file formation, and for what? Cool shots of them crossing the tracks? That gets old fast, good racing never does. Why I didn't nominate this over the old Houston layout, I have no idea, because that one blows this out of the water on every metric.

Canberra was mentioned in this topic, and when it came time for the inaugural meeting at the track during my project of watching all available V8 Supercars races in existence, I honestly entered with a hint of optimism, a sort of "how bad can it truly be?" approach. I guess I expected something similar to IndyCar races at Sao Paulo and Baltimore, which, for their faults, I think were pretty exciting. However, this place quickly proved to be even more absurdly narrow than expected. Even F1's Monaco didn't compare to this, this was straight up racing full sized cars on supermarket aisles. Any corners that I might have assumed were good passing zones based on the layout map, really weren't, and virtually zero meaningful racing developments would ever take place once the pit stops were done, or even before them really. Once the initial novelty of the never-before-seen layout wore off, this event was easily the biggest chore to get through on subsequent seasons. Not as big as Marrakesh, I'd say, but that's just the V8 Supercars innately being more exciting to follow than the "follow the leader" TCR's.
 
Carbonox
Canberra was mentioned in this topic, and when it came time for the inaugural meeting at the track during my project of watching all available V8 Supercars races in existence, I honestly entered with a hint of optimism, a sort of "how bad can it truly be?" approach. I guess I expected something similar to IndyCar races at Sao Paulo and Baltimore, which, for their faults, I think were pretty exciting. However, this place quickly proved to be even more absurdly narrow than expected. Even F1's Monaco didn't compare to this, this was straight up racing full sized cars on supermarket aisles. Any corners that I might have assumed were good passing zones based on the layout map, really weren't, and virtually zero meaningful racing developments would ever take place once the pit stops were done, or even before them really. Once the initial novelty of the never-before-seen layout wore off, this event was easily the biggest chore to get through on subsequent seasons. Not as big as Marrakesh, I'd say, but that's just the V8 Supercars innately being more exciting to follow than the "follow the leader" TCR's.
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Shocking that roads that were all 2 lanes + cycle path (at best) turned out to be too narrow for racing. Most of those streets are divided by a median. If they went all out and removed them to make it about 5 cars wide in places, it might have had some redeeming features.
On top of that, they scheduled the event in the middle of winter, when Canberra is known for some seriously thick fog (and the track was right by the lake). At least one of the years the schedule was seriously messed up and half of the support series missed because you couldn't see from one end of the grid to the other (yeah, I attended that one).
 
Carbonox
Canberra was mentioned in this topic, and when it came time for the inaugural meeting at the track during my project of watching all available V8 Supercars races in existence, I honestly entered with a hint of optimism, a sort of "how bad can it truly be?" approach. I guess I expected something similar to IndyCar races at Sao Paulo and Baltimore, which, for their faults, I think were pretty exciting. However, this place quickly proved to be even more absurdly narrow than expected. Even F1's Monaco didn't compare to this, this was straight up racing full sized cars on supermarket aisles. Any corners that I might have assumed were good passing zones based on the layout map, really weren't, and virtually zero meaningful racing developments would ever take place once the pit stops were done, or even before them really. Once the initial novelty of the never-before-seen layout wore off, this event was easily the biggest chore to get through on subsequent seasons. Not as big as Marrakesh, I'd say, but that's just the V8 Supercars innately being more exciting to follow than the "follow the leader" TCR's.
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Was Canberra the site of Ambrose's tire performance in 2001 or was that another venue?
 
The proposed Vietnam track for F1, luckily it only made it into the game.
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This is a good youtube channel if you want to see some true monstrosities.

 
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Autopolis. How could you make such a bad track for racing? The amount of consecutive corners in sector 1 and 3 are just dismal. Even Suzuka races better, which is really saying something. Paul Ricard suffers from a similar problem.
 
The only thing more interesting than the initial question here are the replies. And I'm not calling out anyone as wrong- we all have our preferences for different reasons.

My answer is a non-committal, other than some sketchy, WTH were they thinking temporary street circuits previously mentioned, it depends. And there's a lot of tracks that are otherwise pretty good, but have one or two features that are really bad.

Now if we want to drill down to some local road courses and kart tracks, I might have some candidates for you. But I can usually even find some bright side on those, even if it is getting off the track...
 
Some tracks are great for one series but not others, like a Formula 1 vs GT or touring car situation.

Advances in aero has killed almost every track these days. It's too easy to find a "boring track" because of the aero or racing, whereas in a Group N or Supertouring format a lot of tracks are probably still really fun.

However... Monaco. Brilliant one lap challenge, absolutely crap race.
 
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The AVUS "circuit" that hosted the first ever German Grand Prix in 1926 and a single F1 World Championship GP in 1959 that was basically formed by putting hairpins at each end of an autobahn. Both GPs held at the "circuit" were marred by tragedy (the three occupants of the timekeepers' box in 1926 when Adolf Rosenberger crashed into them and Jean Behra in the F2 support race in 1959).
 
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AVUS was designed as a test track rather than a race track so holding that against it is a little bit harsh. It's also from that era where the mechanical competition was paramount and not spectacle or entertainment.

Granted, the racing was dire once you got out of the 1950s and proper closed circuits for racing were built. There wasn't any point racing touring cars there in the 80s and 90s once the track length had been shortened so that it was nothing more than a stub attatched to a long radius corner.
 
Liquid
AVUS was designed as a test track rather than a race track so holding that against it is a little bit harsh. It's also from that era where the mechanical competition was paramount and not spectacle or entertainment.

Granted, the racing was dire once you got out of the 1950s and proper closed circuits for racing were built. There wasn't any point racing touring cars there in the 80s and 90s once the track length had been shortened so that it was nothing more than a stub attatched to a long radius corner.
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It was just the first circuit that sprang to my mind. No offence intended.
 
Zeltweg Airfield Circuit - actually hosted two Grands Prix of Austria, though only the 1964 race was a championship event. Eventually, it moved to the Österreichring a few years later.

Circuit_Zeltweg.png


With an airfield, you have so much more room to to put in fake curves with a few hay bales, or mix it up with taxiways, unlike the obvious restrictions at most street circuits. Obviously, the old Silverstone was the prototype for this, and later Sebring made a variety of turns with an airfield. But even the Burke Lakefront Circuit in Cleveland, Ohio used to host some surprisingly-good CART/Indy car events by injecting a good deal of high-speed curves because you had acres of runoff and no obstructions.
 
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It was wide, flat and open. It failed to penalise driving errors. It had a long straight and a tight hairpin.

A proto-Tilkedrome.

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The Nivelles-Baulers circuit that hosted the Belgian GP in 1972 and 1974. It was supposed to alternate with Zolder. Looking somewhat like a shotgun when seen from above, the circuit was described as featureless and flat (though the latter wasn't strictly true if photographic evidence is anything to go by) with massive run-off areas, unpopular with drivers and spectators, believing it to be too sterile and bland and not allowing close enough access to the action. Intended as a safer alternative to the original Spa, it turned out to be too safe. Ironically, it was declared too dangerous when it was supposed to host the 1976 Belgian GP, due to the condition the tarmac was in and finally too unsafe for car racing period in 1980 and only hosted motorbike racing in 1981. Other problems included the organiser going bust in 1974 and only sponsors allowed the circuit's 2nd (and, as it turned out, last GP) to go ahead. It was only built in 1971 but was closed a decade later and, starting in 1998, was partly constructed into a business park.
 
Feel bad making this list... Purely going to be my opinion based on the spec series on that track IRL, or in a racing game.


Thruxton - Probably the most boring of BTCC races. You are just waiting for the tyres to go off and/or rain.

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Monaco - F1 cars look ridiculous, too big! Its just a tax dodging jolly weekend away for the rich and famous, no wonder they are always in favour of it!. Boring spectacle. I remember it being the most exciting race to tune into, I dont even watch the 5 minute Youtube highlights anymore.

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Bathurst/M Panorama - this is purely racing game based, real life racing "can" be exciting. I just don't care for it... only a handful of overtaking spots on long boring straights, people cannot drive for 💩 on the top of the hill, online. Maybe the oversaturation of seeing it in every single racing game since the dawn of time has broken me?

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Circuit de la Sarthe - One of my most disliked tracks to drive on. I watch Le Mans every year (online) and its fantastic to watch, but to race on in a game, I will quite happily skip it. Fast or slow cars, cannot stand the monotony of the Mulsanne straight + chicanes. Give me the Bugatti Circuit anyday, over this!

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Monza - One of the most overrated tracks on the planet, maybe the universe. The passion of the Tifosi does not carry over to the gaming world. Its a few boring long straights, mixed with carnage at the first chicane. F1 cars look ridiculous bouncing over the curbs too. Same as above, if this shows up in rotation on a game, I will back out and wait for the next one.

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I think I am just sick of seeing the same tracks, over and over again... 😄
 
I don't have a comment on Thruxton, but I agree with your opinion that Bathurst, Le Mans and Monza are all hit and (mostly) miss for online races. I'll die on the hill that they are good in real racing though.
I'm sure you're aware that your opinion on Monaco is hardly unique. It can be OK with the right cars, but they are few and far between.
 
R55NA
Feel bad making this list... Purely going to be my opinion based on the spec series on that track IRL, or in a racing game.


Thruxton - Probably the most boring of BTCC races. You are just waiting for the tyres to go off and/or rain.

View attachment 1337343
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Thruxton's a great circuit to drive on. Mostly. The lack of any straights and a ton of ambiguous corners and different available driving lines make it a proper challenge. It's also pretty wide for a club circuit so you can go three or more abreast around much of it. The more grip and downforce you race with does make it less of a challenge and it's pretty poor for spectators but i'd still class it as one of the UKs better circuits.
 
Watch the support series races at Thruxton and your opinion will change. A Caterham or classic Mini race there will show you what makes Thruxton a proper challenge.

If you want a terrible BTCC circuit, why pick Thruxton when Snetterton exists? The 300 layout changes in 2011 ruined what was a fantastic track and added an infield section not interesting enough to be worth it, and the hairpin-into-90-degree section that Turn 2 became on the shorter layout is just apocalyptically bad.
 
MatskiMonk
Why pick Snetterton when Silverstone National exists?
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Silverstone National is another circuit which is much better to drive then it has any right too given the sum of it's parts. It flows really well. Croft and Cadwell Park on the other hand? Too narrow, too stop-start and too many mickey mouse sections that just interupt that flow. IMO.

They work fine on track days (probably much better than Silverstone National does) but when you are actually trying to race on them they're frustrating.
 
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TheCracker
Silverstone National is another circuit which is much better to drive then it has any right too given the sum of it's parts. It flows really well. Croft and Cadwell Park on the other hand? Too narrow, too stop-start and too many mickey mouse sections that just interupt that flow. IMO.
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They're certainly at opposite ends of the spectrum in those contexts, but surely that would leave Rockingham's Quad oval as the (ex) Crown-jewel of British tracks!
 
MatskiMonk
They're certainly at opposite ends of the spectrum in those contexts, but surely that would leave Rockingham's Quad oval as the (ex) Crown-jewel of British tracks!
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Why stop at Rockingham Oval? Santa Pod has all the flow you could want. ;)

edit - Talking of Rockingham, last time i Google Mapped it it was looking like an airport parking lot. Just checked it now and it's looking like a racing venue again. Are they really trying to make it work as a circuit once more?

Blitz24
Would Macau qualify as good, bad or yes?
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Definately Yes. Fun to watch but mostly because of the expected carnage rather than the quality of the racing.
 
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