X2014 Good, or Bad?

[sparkytooth]

The X1 itself isn't even on the boarder or realism, but well within the bounds. People tend to confuse "realistic" with "exists in real life".

The other issue is that GT5 physics were flawed, and because people associate speed with realism rather than vehicle dynamics with realism, some conclude that the X1 is less realistic than other cars when it is basically exactly as realistic as the other cars in the game.

Because a machine that can kill you in real life by just driving it is really real

 

[trustjab]

Fighter pilots exceed 8g's and they survive, actually they do quite well. Of course they're helped by g-suits. Cornering at high G's for extended periods can cause you to faint, but the corners would be over in less time than now since the speed through it is faster.

 

[sparkytooth]

A-spec Andys only wear Racing Suits.

 

[TheeFrogmanlego]

A-spec Andys only wear Racing Suits.

The cars possible, its just a death trap, and as my father once said, " its just plain criminal"

 

[Exorcet]

Our concept of realistic is different. Realistic to me is a car in which human beings can realistically drive to their limit consistently.

Well that's an arbitrary definition. Whether something satisfies that or not has bearing on how realistic it is.

No human being could drive the X1 any where near it's limits on a real track surface.

Yes, no, and maybe.

A real X1 could have artificial caps on its performance to keep drivers safe or be driven on specially designed tracks to keep things in check. This could be as simple as taking it to an auto cross track where the speed might be limited to 100 mph.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the X1 in GT5 is a terrible car to use to judge the X1. GT5 has a bad physics engines. All the cars are ridiculous. The X1 apparently has an advantage over other cars in that it is sensitive to ground clearance and possibly weight transfer. For some reason, the F1 and X1 cars will automatically provide throttle when cornering and decelerating. It's either the simulation of a driver aid that's rendered pointless by the physics engine or a necessity to wipe out weight transfer effects that the physics engine could not deal with in cars like the F1/X1.

At 8G's you enter a corner and your arms will weigh more than your entire body. When you're braking your legs will weigh 250+ lbs each, so unless you are squatting 5 bills in the gym, you aren't going to be able to lift your leg off the brake.

Pilots deal with it all the time. If drivers don't want to it's as simple as programming a 6 g brake limit into the car's computers. Or not having a driver at all.

One imperfection, one mistake, one too many stones on the track, one mistake of a few inches on a curb and you'd be sucking the drivers remains off the track with a shop-vac. If it can't be driven to it's limits by humans, it's not realistic to me.

It's not realistic to you, but it could still be built, and it could be built and used safely. One mistake is all it takes to die in any car anyway.

Could you build the car? Of course. Can you drive it in a videogame? Yes, of course. If that's all it takes to be "realistic" for some, then I guess it's realistic, just not to me.

Well what else is realistic in a simulation besides something that behaves as it would if it were real?

If you want something unrealistic, it's probably unrealistic (not as in impossible, but as in improbable) to see X1's driving around the Nurburgring at full speed. But the same goes for F1 cars doing the same thing, but that's all over GT5 and no one cares. The reason why is because people [think they] understand F1 cars. They don't understand the X1 and go crazy over it when they don't even know how to tell if it's realistic or not.

Because a machine that can kill you in real life by just driving it is really real

You can show your calculations proving that X1 drivers would die automatically at any time.

You can also look up GLOC and how pilots get around it, or the effect of g forces on the body.

 

[ZedMan1996]

Do you even play GT5? I'm sorry but I play multiple sim racing games and GT5 is highly accurate. And GT6? Much much more accurate.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Fighter pilots exceed 8g's and they survive, actually they do quite well. Of course they're helped by g-suits. Cornering at high G's for extended periods can cause you to faint, but the corners would be over in less time than now since the speed through it is faster.

Right, because flying a plane in the air with no contact with anything other than air requires the same infinitesimal accuracy that driving a car does. Oh wait, it doesn't. Survival isn't the goal here, it's can the car be driven anywhere close to it's limits on a real course? It can't. It only takes a basic understanding of physics to realize this.

 

[ussr]

RedBull X2010 and followers is just stupid and unrealistic, according to laws of physics this car is never exist in real life. It's just impossible to drive that fast in corners and had tires to sustain that kind of grip. For this reason i vote Bad, but should be just stupid.

 

[dr_slump]

Right, because flying a plane in the air with no contact with anything other than air requires the same infinitesimal accuracy that driving a car does. Oh wait, it doesn't. Survival isn't the goal here, it's can the car be driven anywhere close to it's limits on a real course? It can't. It only takes a basic understanding of physics to realize this.

Drive slower

 

[Exorcet]

Do you even play GT5? I'm sorry but I play multiple sim racing games and GT5 is highly accurate. And GT6? Much much more accurate.

Yes I have. The tires are coded to have a constant amount of grip, weight transfer basically doesn't exist, same for torque steer, and turbo lag. It took 5.75 games for aerodynamics to start making sense and only then it's just barely right as all it captures is the lift to drag relationship and the only the very basics of front/rear balance. Speaking of balance the brake balance controller is nonsensical and brakes themselves never fade. The wheels have zero inertia and the suspension is super over damped.

When you have played GT6?

Right, because flying a plane in the air with no contact with anything other than air requires the same infinitesimal accuracy that driving a car does. Oh wait, it doesn't. Survival isn't the goal here, it's can the car be driven anywhere close to it's limits on a real course? It can't. It only takes a basic understanding of physics to realize this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BycHBgQKnQ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwKqD9ylLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eyi1AjRXVk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh-kuztsE1s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faB5bIdksi8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQI3AWpTWhM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpJBvQXQC2M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZCp5h1gK2Q

Actually it requires more precision. The ground doesn't save you when you fly.

It only takes a basic understanding of physics to realize this.

Then explain.

RedBull X2010 and followers is just stupid and unrealistic, according to laws of physics this car is never exist in real life. It's just impossible to drive that fast in corners and had tires to sustain that kind of grip. For this reason i vote Bad, but should be just stupid.

Then explain. Why is it impossible to go so fast in corners? Why does the car have to go that fast in corners?

 

[trustjab]

The car doesn't exist irl because there are no series to race it in and theres no practicality to build something that can't race.

 

[occasionalracer]

The car doesn't exist irl because there are no series to race it in and theres no practicality to build something that can't race.

Of course there's no series in which it would race, if it were ever to go from drawing boards into production, it would be solely to grab the attention of the entire automotive/motorsport world, everyone will know about it.

RedBulls engineers, mechanics and part manufacturers would be able to put this car together (well any top shelf racecar company probably could). With a good joint funding between RedBull, Sony, engine and transmission providers, ect. it could be done just for pure spetacle, and hopefully something that smash existing views of what's possible and perhaps learn things along the way...

As for getting someone to race this machine.. I guarentee SOMEONE would drive it without a doubt.. actually even beg to be the star.. especially Formula drivers that already have complete tolarance to high G's, there would be lots and lots of testing on an open field before attacking any GP circuit, by that time the boundaries of human and machine should be fully understood.

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BycHBgQKnQ0

Let me see if I have this right. You're flying a plane where you have quite a large margin of error, not inches as you do with a racecar at it's limits, and they still crash on a regular basis. And you're using this example to prove that you can drive the X1 at it's limit. Don't get that sorry.

And asking why does the car have to driven that fast in corners doesn't follow the discussion. The question isn't, can someone get in the car and drive fast around a course. Of course they could. Can they drive it for any sustained period, anywhere near it's limit on a racing circuit, cornering at 7-8 g's at 200 or 300 km/h where one slight mistake will turn you into carrion food? I say it can't be done.

 

[Exorcet]

Let me see if I have this right. You're flying a plane where you have quite a large margin of error, not inches as you do with a racecar at it's limits, and they still crash on a regular basis. And you're using this example to prove that you can drive the X1 at it's limit. Don't get that sorry.

What was the margin of error when the planes hit the water? It was 0 to negative.

When a car spins out, it will eventually stop moving even if you do nothing. When an aircraft stalls, doing nothing can send you into the ground.

I don't think you're quite understanding how flight works. In order to turn hard, you need to pull high AoA. Airfoils can only take so much AoA before stalling (which is what led to the second to last near crash in the video). For these pilots to be competitive, they need to fly as close to stall as possible. If they don't, they're going slow. If they pull too much, the plane stops flying.

Cars at least tend to understeer when you exceed the limits. Planes "oversteer" when you exceed the limits.

My point was also not to demonstrate that the X1 could be driven at it's limits on a track, which is of course possible. My point was that flying takes at least as much precision as driving. Overfly a plane and there are consequences.

And asking why does the car have to driven that fast in corners doesn't follow the discussion. The question isn't, can someone get in the car and drive fast around a course. Of course they could. Can they drive it for any sustained period, anywhere near it's limit on a racing circuit, cornering at 7-8 g's at 200 or 300 km/h where one slight mistake will turn you into carrion food? I say it can't be done.

Actually there is a good reason to ask why the car needs to go so fast. It's because you can design a track to limit a car to any speed or G load you want. The X1 can be driven at its limit and never break 4 g or 100 mph. That also doesn't defeat the point of the car because it could still be faster than a car that can only pull a maximum of 4 g and only go 100 mph.

In any case, the pilots I showed could pull 10+g at 200+ mph. So that makes a case for the X1's performance. They also have no more margin for error than a hypothetical X1 driver, who could possibly drive on an endless flat patch of asphalt with not a single thing to worry about.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

The X2010 is one of my favorite cars to drive in GT5. I play for fun and find them a pleasure to race or simply do laps in.

 

[AudiMan2011]

The X10 5G that was made available for GT5 players in Japan is probably the most realistic portrayal if the X10 was to become reality. The fan on that car is disabled and it makes around 400hp, easily obtainable with today's technology.

 

[Exorcet]

The X10 5G that was made available for GT5 players in Japan is probably the most realistic portrayal if the X10 was to become reality. The fan on that car is disabled and it makes around 400hp, easily obtainable with today's technology.

Just for the record, fans and 1500 hp engines are decades old.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What was the margin of error when the planes hit the water? It was 0 to negative.

When a car spins out, it will eventually stop moving even if you do nothing. When an aircraft stalls, doing nothing can send you into the ground.

I honestly can't tell if you are trolling or not sorry. I didn't read anything after the part I quoted for that reason, sorry. You think an X1 hitting Parabolica at 275 km/h and suffering a blowout or accidentally riding the curb is going to cause a "spinout"? You're serious about that? Once this car loses downforce it's nothing more than a heavy kite.

 

[Exorcet]

I honestly can't tell if you are trolling or not sorry. I didn't read anything after the part I quoted for that reason, sorry. You think an X1 hitting Parabolica at 275 km/h and suffering a blowout or accidentally riding the curb is going to cause a "spinout"? You're serious about that? Once this car loses downforce it's nothing more than a heavy kite.

The car doesn't have to drive at 275 km/h ever. It doesn't necessarily have to worry about any noticeable surface imperfections either. These conditions also happen apply to cars that already exist and this doesn't stop racing from happening. All of this beside the point anyway, as it doesn't make the car less realistic.

I brought up spin out because it's probably the closest thing to a stall. It's the result of exceeding the vehicle's limits. A car will usually just slow down. A plane isn't guaranteed to stall both wings at once, which leads to roll, which in turn leads to yaw and pitch. Gravity only pulls you down, and since the plane isn't on the ground already, the ground becomes deadly.

If you want to talk worse case, then the planes have to worry about microbursts ripping wings off. That's kind of equivalent to a being thrown off the track by a bad surface. Air is never still, not even when it's still.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The car doesn't have to drive at 275 km/h ever. It doesn't necessarily have to worry about any noticeable surface imperfections either. These conditions also happen apply to cars that already exist and this doesn't stop racing from happening. All of this beside the point anyway, as it doesn't make the car less realistic.

I brought up spin out because it's probably the closest thing to a stall. It's the result of exceeding the vehicle's limits. A car will usually just slow down. A plane isn't guaranteed to stall both wings at once, which leads to roll, which in turn leads to yaw and pitch. Gravity only pulls you down, and since the plane isn't on the ground already, the ground becomes deadly.

If you want to talk worse case, then the planes have to worry about microbursts ripping wings off. That's kind of equivalent to a being thrown off the track by a bad surface. Air is never still, not even when it's still.

This is going nowhere fast. Agree to disagree.

 

[ZedMan1996]

Oh wow. Can this at least not turn into another pointless argument?

The cars making it into the game anyway and its better than having one less car.

Put up with it. You can always drive other cars too if you guys have never thought of that before. Its not like the X series are the only cars in the game.

Jesus...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Oh wow. Can this at least not turn into another pointless argument?

The cars making it into the game anyway and its better than having one less car.

Put up with it. You can always drive other cars too if you guys have never thought of that before. Its not like the X series are the only cars in the game.

Jesus...

The purpose of the thread is to discuss the merits of the X1. If you're not comfortable with heated debate, move along. Telling everyone else to "drive other cars" if they don't like the X1, doesn't really contribute to the discussion now does it?

 

[Earth]

OK if its a 100% completion prize that cant be traded or duplicated. No any other way

 

[ZedMan1996]

OK if its a 100% completion prize that cant be traded or duplicated. No any other way

That would be the best thing to do. Like in GT4 with the Carbon Black Formula Gran Turismo.

It would show the dedicated and skilled gamers from the crowd.

 

[Dan]

OK if its a 100% completion prize that cant be traded or duplicated. No any other way

That would be the best thing to do. Like in GT4 with the Carbon Black Formula Gran Turismo.

It would show the dedicated and skilled gamers from the crowd.

This. The X2010 was obtained fairly easily, by hitting level 35 on B-Spec, completing the Vettel Challenge, or getting the free one when Vettel won the F1 championship. The X2011, just pay once and you can have it unlocked each time you start a new game... immediately.

The best car should never just be "given out" to everyone. It should be granted only to those who have the skill and maturity to use it. That way, some bratty 12-year-old can't beg mommy and daddy to pay $10 for the racecar DLC, then ruin multiplayer races for everyone.

 

[Exorcet]

The X1 should be easy to get. Even easier than it was for GT5. It's a car. People should drive it. If the skilled drivers want something, give them a tacky name tag.

 

[Dan]

The X1 should be easy to get. Even easier than it was for GT5. It's a car. People should drive it. If the skilled drivers want something, give them a tacky name tag.

The Red Bull prototypes have the potential to destroy every race, unless the X1s get put into separate classes that can't be races with other cars, like the Ferrari F1 cars. When a new player joins a lobby and gets smacked off the track all the time by a ridiculously overpowered car that lies between realistic and unrealistic, they will lose interest in the game. This won't be good for PD.

 

[sparkytooth]

The X1 should be easy to get. Even easier than it was for GT5. It's a car. People should drive it. If the skilled drivers want something, give them a tacky name tag.

I just can't take you seriously anymore buddy, sorry.

How in the name of all that is holy and good are you going to make an X14 (Even more ludicrous than the last two I'm sure) even more easily available to the idiots that plague the online servers everyday of which there are already countless??

It was already easy enough to get it in GT5. I have 4 of them, and I didn't get the Vettel Chamionship one everyone got back in 2011, and I haven't completed the Vettel X challenge either on any trophy. This machine should become hard to obtain as it was originally. If you want it so bad, work for it and make your sweat worthwile and therefore, more gratifying in the end. Also use the machine responsibly, not to ruin everyome else's fun. Atleast make it unlockable at a certain percentage like the 787B and various other machines were in GT3/GT4.

 

[grashopper]

The Red Bull prototypes have the potential to destroy every race, unless the X1s get put into separate classes that can't be races with other cars, like the Ferrari F1 cars. When a new player joins a lobby and gets smacked off the track all the time by a ridiculously overpowered car that lies between realistic and unrealistic, they will lose interest in the game. This won't be good for PD.

All you need is a lobby car ban list when you set it up. Restrictions kill the fun for everyone. I hate not being able to pull a kart out whenever I want. And owning a Ferrari f1 is almost pointless because you can never use it.
What can and cannot be used should be left up to the host.

 

[Exorcet]

The Red Bull prototypes have the potential to destroy every race

Sounds like all cars. Ban?

unless the X1s get put into separate classes that can't be races with other cars,

Utterly bad game design that serves no purpose.

like the Ferrari F1 cars. When a new player joins a lobby and gets smacked off the track all the time by a ridiculously overpowered car that lies between realistic and unrealistic, they will lose interest in the game. This won't be good for PD.

Then I guess no cars should be allowed in the game, because every car is overpowered compared to another, and every car is about as realistic as the X1.

How in the name of all that is holy and good are you going to make an X14 (Even more ludicrous than the last two I'm sure) even more easily available to the idiots that plague the online servers everyday of which there are already countless??

Because the X cars have nothing to do with idiots online and the point of the game is racing.

It was already easy enough to get it in GT5. I have 4 of them, and I didn't get the Vettel Chamionship one everyone got back in 2011, and I haven't completed the Vettel X challenge either on any trophy.

Good, unlocking cars is boring. Racing cars is fun, so the X1 shouldn't requiring unlocking.

If you want it so bad, work for it and make your sweat worthwile and therefore, more gratifying in the end.

Wrong, it would be more gratifying to put the disk in and drive whatever. I got the car by doing the challenges. You can check my trophy date. I don't care. It was a waste of time when I could have had the car for no effort.

Also use the machine responsibly, not to ruin everyome else's fun. Atleast make it unlockable at a certain percentage like the 787B and various other machines were in GT3/GT4.

Pointless.