Xbox Japan: "Forza 6 includes weather, night racing, 450 cars"

[Lain]

Not to me, but it would be great if FH3 and FM6 are more compelling, because the Horizon series is the concept I desire in a driving game, and I prefer Forza's collection of cars over a game like PCARS.

Agreed about Horizon, it's pretty much the only open-world racing game that I actually like. Though admittedly, most of time I'm just driving instead of racing... But then again, my ideal concept for a driving game is just that: A driving game.

If I were in charge of an open-world GT, that's exactly what it would be... a massive open-world (as in the whole world) driving game. It wouldn't be 100% devoid of racing, but pretty damn close... if you felt like racing, you'd drive to a track.

Anyway, back on the topic of Forza 6... mildly disappointed that there's still no rally racing to be had. Guess they're sticking to the pavement for good...

 

[Speedster911]

I'm not really holding my breath over night driving and weather;

E3 will see the game running on a good gaming PC, and many of those wonderful features might get toned down somewhat or cut altogether by the time it is released on X1.

Dynamic? Mehh, it's possible I suppose. Night toggle on/off on all tracks. Doubt that. They have to keep it running at 60 fps, and hopefully, this time there will be zero pop up.

I can merely speculate; E3 is a good indicator of things to come, though it isn't 100% representative of the final product.

 

[SimTourist]

I'm not really holding my breath over night driving and weather;

E3 will see the game running on a good gaming PC, and many of those wonderful features might get toned down somewhat or cut altogether by the time it is released on X1.

Dynamic? Mehh, it's possible I suppose. Night toggle on/off on all tracks. Doubt that. They have to keep it running at 60 fps, and hopefully, this time there will be zero pop up.

I can merely speculate; E3 is a good indicator of things to come, though it isn't 100% representative of the final product.

That's the nature of any software development, things can change radically in a short span of time. Also people need to cut the BS with the whole downgrade arguments. Forza 5 was running on a PC because the final console didn't even exist when they showed it E3 2013, then came the final hardware and it turned out it wasn't as powerful as T10 imagined, so they had 3 options - 1. Reduce the resolution 2. Allow fps drops 3. Tone down the graphics, they chose the third option, fair enough, moving on. Forza 6 is being developed for a mature platform with improved tools and the experience of launching 2 titles already.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Dynamic time is something that I support in theory, but in practice so long as the night racing is actually *night* racing instead of just "we darkened all of the track textures and skybox" than I'm all over that. Especially if the performance hit is lighter.

I agree. Its very unlikely we will see dynamic in F6 but I am okay with that. In fact when I asked for night / weather I was always asking for at least the ability to pick night weather. Maybe toggle on or off.

We have dynamic in FH2 and I absolutely LOVE it, but I am okay with it not being dynamic in Forza 6. I just hope we can at least pick night weather for each track. But I am expecting it to be restricted to only certain tracks. If we can pick night weather for all tracks, I will be beyond impressed.

 

[Speedster911]

That's the nature of any software development, things can change radically in a short span of time. Also people need to cut the BS with the whole downgrade arguments. Forza 5 was running on a PC because the final console didn't even exist when they showed it E3 2013, then came the final hardware and it turned out it wasn't as powerful as T10 imagined, so they had 3 options - 1. Reduce the resolution 2. Allow fps drops 3. Tone down the graphics, they chose the third option, fair enough, moving on. Forza 6 is being developed for a mature platform with improved tools and the experience of launching 2 titles already.

The experience of launching 2 titles already? T10's input is minimal in the development of the Forza Horizon games; it's a PG game borrowing certain assests from T10 as per their terms and whatnot.

Forza 5 was running on a PC because the devs and MS especially wanted to wow audiences with a new-gen Forza game. Something called a "devkit" along with the console is available to devs months, even as long as a year away from the actual console release. So no, they used a PC to sell the franchise, and yes you are right on all accounts when you say the console has matured - FM6 will definitely introduce some effects and visual pizzazz that might make us wonder: "Gee, I didn't know the X1 could do that...!"

 

[VXR]

I'm pretty certain the dev units weren't finalised until late? Hence the problems the console has had with third parties?

 

[FordGTGuy]

And yes, there were some games that were - categorically, without a shadow of a doubt - running on Xbox One hardware. It'll come as little surprise to learn that first party software was more likely to be showcased running on the new console, with Turn 10's Forza Motorsport 5 the most high profile title we saw that was visibly operating on the actual unit.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-xbox-one

C'mon guys.

As far as dynamic lighting is concerned, this job listing was found for Turn 10 Studios for a graphics engineer.

Come join our team at this exciting time as we push the graphical limits of Microsoft gaming platforms.

A qualified applicant must have four or more years of experience with C++, strong 3D math background and three years’ experience with graphics technologies such as D3D. The candidate should also have experience with multiple lighting models, dynamic lights and lighting.

Dated May 4th 2015.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I agree. Its very unlikely we will see dynamic in F6 but I am okay with that.

Project cars has dynamic weather. A game with less cars on the track and presumably a much less complicated physics engine will be able to do the same, I should think. The XB1 isn't that bad.

 

[Speedster911]

Project cars has dynamic weather. A game with less cars on the track and presumably a much less complicated physics engine will be able to do the same, I should think. The XB1 isn't that bad.

Let's not forget the fact that PCARS' tracks on XB1 are bland-looking and plain ugly in some cases, even though the resolution is quite sharp and clean.

Forza's tracks are highly detailed and the cars boast better detail as well, including a significantly higher poly count.

As for the physics, it isn't as complicated as many are led to believe. You can't even do proper donuts in any car - that is a testament to the fact that the physics are incomplete. Also, where is the torque steer you get off the starting line or how your steering becomes heavy and partially unresponsive when the car starts to slide?

Have you played Forza 5 with a good wheel? Anyhow, this thread isn't a debate on physics;

The XB1 on paper seems inferior to the PS4, however, you can bet your umbrella (couldn't think of anything else) the multiplatform games coming on both consoles will not receive any real-world benefits on the PS4, aside from slightly higher fps and native 1080p.

It's a huge industry, and just like any major industry there are raging politics. It doesn't matter which console is more powerful, at the end of the day, it comes down to exclusive titles. Both consoles can play multi-plat titles equally well. Has been the case since the X360/PS3 days.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

My point stands @Speedster911 that the physics and number of AI opponents in PCARS
take more power from the console than Forza. Dynamic weather is possible.

 

[FordGTGuy]

My point stands @Speedster911 that the physics and number of AI opponents in PCARS
take more power from the console than Forza. Dynamic weather is possible.

That's if you ignore that PCars runs at a lower resolution(900p) and dips under 60 fps maintaining that higher car count and weather.

Forza 6 will be locked to 60 so it will never go under 60 fps and it will be full 1080p.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

That's if you ignore that PCars runs at a lower resolution(900p) and dips under 60 fps maintaining that higher car count and weather.

Forza 6 will be locked to 60 so it will never go under 60 fps and it will be full 1080p.

Correct. Which is why I don't believe FM6 will be locked to 60 in wet weather.

Also, apologies for bringing it up again, but fm6 will have that very important extra core to play with.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Correct. Which is why I don't believe FM6 will be locked to 60 in wet weather.

Also, apologies for bringing it up again, but fm6 will have that very important extra core to play with.

Forza Motorsport 6 also has the advantage(over PCars) of being a first party, a DX12 title, most likely running forward plus light rendering and like you said the extra core.

I wouldn't bet on any framerate dips at any point in the game, but I guess we will see.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Project cars has dynamic weather. A game with less cars on the track and presumably a much less complicated physics engine will be able to do the same, I should think. The XB1 isn't that bad.

We had a similar discussion in another thread. What you have to keep in mind is that Forza has 5,000+ vinyls PER CAR along with much more. I wont get into the PC cars vs Forza vs GT.

Also I agree that F6 wont be locked in at 60fps. Might be close but it wont maintain solid 60fps 100% of the time. And I am fine with that. I am not quite as picky about 60fps. I don't mind sacrificing fps for night and weather.

 

[ImaRobot]

As for the physics, it isn't as complicated as many are led to believe. You can't even do proper donuts in any car - that is a testament to the fact that the physics are incomplete. Also, where is the torque steer you get off the starting line or how your steering becomes heavy and partially unresponsive when the car starts to slide?

@ 2:10

Seems to be alright, no? All these things you are saying are not there, are actually there.

The XB1 on paper seems inferior to the PS4, however, you can bet your umbrella (couldn't think of anything else) the multiplatform games coming on both consoles will not receive any real-world benefits on the PS4, aside from slightly higher fps and native 1080p.

All multiplatform games share the same FPS, the resolution is the thing that is usually different. Still, not all PS4 games have native 1080p. Although, they do pop out much more frequent on the PS4.

We had a similar discussion in another thread. What you have to keep in mind is that Forza has 5,000+ vinyls PER CAR along with much more. I wont get into the PC cars vs Forza vs GT.

Also I agree that F6 wont be locked in at 60fps. Might be close but it wont maintain solid 60fps 100% of the time. And I am fine with that. I am not quite as picky about 60fps. I don't mind sacrificing fps for night and weather.

You also need to keep in mind that those 5000+ layer's get flattened into one layer while playing, and its very obvious that it gets super compressed because when you go into game you can notice blurs and jaggies within the paint scheme. So That's not even something to be of concern really.

I dont mind a locked frame rate, but I do mind fluctuating frames. If they can keep it locked, I'm fine.

 

[HAL20XX]

Looks like there's a new player in the wheel arena for Forza 6 (and PCARS)!

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/home/project-cars-supports-g29-g920-driving-force-wheels

Unfortunately, it looks like Xbox doesn't get the cool LED tach, however.

 

[SimTourist]

Xbone really seems like the place to go for simracers this gen, Logitech wheel just seals the deal for me, reliability is a big concern with Thrustmaster even if some tech is more advanced. With GT taking god knows how many years to come out and not doing a particularly outstanding job with it's physics I'm afraid it will only get dual shock 4 treatment from me.

 

[RacerPaul]

Xbone really seems like the place to go for simracers this gen, Logitech wheel just seals the deal for me, reliability is a big concern with Thrustmaster even if some tech is more advanced. With GT taking god knows how many years to come out and not doing a particularly outstanding job with it's physics I'm afraid it will only get dual shock 4 treatment from me

Yes, some of the horror stories about how the TM wheels are performing in pCARS are nasty

I always had Logitech wheels when I had a PS2/3

Very reliable things. I might just take a punt at one for my X1

 

[Speedster911]

@ 2:10

Seems to be alright, no? All these things you are saying are not there, are actually there.



All multiplatform games share the same FPS, the resolution is the thing that is usually different. Still, not all PS4 games have native 1080p. Although, they do pop out much more frequent on the PS4.


You also need to keep in mind that those 5000+ layer's get flattened into one layer while playing, and its very obvious that it gets super compressed because when you go into game you can notice blurs and jaggies within the paint scheme. So That's not even something to be of concern really.

I dont mind a locked frame rate, but I do mind fluctuating frames. If they can keep it locked, I'm fine.

Ah, thanks for posting this. This is definitely not how the cars in my game do donuts. They behave more like Grid Autosport donuts: half a circle, stop then do another half circle. It's never a smooth continuous 360 deg circle like in those vids.

Maybe I need to fool around with the game's settings, though I have no assists on, and difficulty at max. Haven't tried the donuts post-patch though. Will experiment and post thoughts!

My point stands @Speedster911 that the physics and number of AI opponents in PCARS
take more power from the console than Forza. Dynamic weather is possible.

I betcha Forza 5 can do better physics and more cars if they tone down their car and track detail to PCARS level, which quite frankly (not bashing the game) is abysmal. PCARS definitely does not look like a current gen game on X1. The sharp and clean textures coupled with weather effects and night driving are the only factors that stand out.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Ah, thanks for posting this. This is definitely not how the cars in my game do donuts. They behave more like Grid Autosport donuts: half a circle, stop then do another half circle. It's never a smooth continuous 360 deg circle like in those vids.

Maybe I need to fool around with the game's settings, though I have no assists on, and difficulty at max. Haven't tried the donuts post-patch though. Will experiment and post thoughts!



I betcha Forza 5 can do better physics and more cars if they tone down their car and track detail to PCARS level, which quite frankly (not bashing the game) is abysmal. PCARS definitely does not look like a current gen game on X1. The sharp and clean textures coupled with weather effects and night driving are the only factors that stand out.

Without wishing to turn this into a vs thread, have you even seen the level of detail that goes into the modelling of vehicles in pcars? Then again, it may be that the xb1 version looks inferior to fm5 due to the lower resolution. But it goes without saying as every car is completely modelled inside and out in PCARS, it's currently ahead of evrything in this aspect.

On topic, "Forza tech" suggests a new physics engine or something of the sort, furthering my suspicions of dipping fps.

 

[ClydeYellow]

So, the new Logitec uber-cool wheel is coming to the X1 too? I am crying tears of joy. Although the 600€ expense for wheel + Playseat Challenge is brining me to tears of another kind...

 

[VXR]

It doesn't matter how well the cars are modelled in PCars, because the game looks terrible on Xbox One in places.

 

[DDastardly00]

Awesome news, this is what we have all been waiting for. Perhaps I will have my Xbox one back from repair by the time this releases? It's only been a month and a half (2 months by the time I expect to have it back).

At least this situation has giving me more time with FM4, which I am thoroughly enjoying all over again. If the weather is anything like FH2 then the game should be incredible.

 

[Mitsurugi]

Correct. Which is why I don't believe FM6 will be locked to 60 in wet weather.

Also, apologies for bringing it up again, but fm6 will have that very important extra core to play with.

Just like to point out SMS also had that extra core to play with on pCars on XB1, and actually put it to good use. For me a sim racer with frame-rates that drop into the 30-40s when wet weather kicks is just not acceptable. It has to be locked or near-locked to 60fps. This is why Forza 5 is still the only 1080px60fps sim racer on consoles 18 months down the line. MS have already publicly stated after the leaks that Forza 6 will be running at 1080px60fps. Since Forza 2 every single Forza has had a locked 60fps, so I'm pretty sure this will be true of Forza 6, otherwise there will be a severe backlash from the community.

 

[Mitsurugi]

Without wishing to turn this into a vs thread, have you even seen the level of detail that goes into the modelling of vehicles in pcars? Then again, it may be that the xb1 version looks inferior to fm5 due to the lower resolution. But it goes without saying as every car is completely modelled inside and out in PCARS, it's currently ahead of evrything in this aspect.

On topic, "Forza tech" suggests a new physics engine or something of the sort, furthering my suspicions of dipping fps.

Can you explain to us why you think a new "Forza tech" developed by T10 is going to introduce frame-rate drops?

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Just like to point out SMS also had that extra core to play with on pCars on XB1, and actually put it to good use. For me a sim racer with frame-rates that drop into the 30-40s when wet weather kicks is just not acceptable. It has to be locked or near-locked to 60fps. This is why Forza 5 is still the only 1080px60fps sim racer on consoles 18 months down the line. MS have already publicly stated after the leaks that Forza 6 will be running at 1080px60fps. Since Forza 2 every single Forza has had a locked 60fps, so I'm pretty sure this will be true of Forza 6, otherwise there will be a severe backlash from the community.

I don't think they did have the extra core. Source?

To answer your second post:

Forza tech = new engine?? = more complicated

more complicated engine + weather = More likely for frame rate to drop. Simples.

 

[Mitsurugi]

I don't think they did have the extra core. Source?

Its all over the internet. Here's a link from the gamingbolt website: http://gamingbolt.com/project-cars-...cpu-to-offload-tasks-game-utilizing-amds-eqaa

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Its all over the internet. Here's a link from the gamingbolt website: http://gamingbolt.com/project-cars-...cpu-to-offload-tasks-game-utilizing-amds-eqaa

Thank you for confirming. I did not realise they were using the 7th core.

 

[Mitsurugi]

I don't think they did have the extra core. Source?

To answer your second post:

Forza tech = new engine?? = more complicated

more complicated engine + weather = More likely for frame rate to drop. Simples.

For most other developers, yes, I would accept that rational, but I'm not willing to concede just yet that T10 are going down the same route. I know PD did it with GT5, but I still believe T10 will not compromise their frame-rates, and I do not think they are about to start now with such a crucial 1st party title. This being their 2nd Forza game on XB1, I expect some marked, if not significant improvements from a launch title.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

For most other developers, yes, I would accept that rational, but I'm not willing to concede just yet that T10 are going down the same route. I know PD did it with GT5, but I still believe T10 will not compromise their frame-rates, and I do not think they are about to start now with such a crucial 1st party title. This being their 2nd Forza game on XB1, I expect some marked, if not significant improvements from a launch title.

not hitting a constant 60fps is not a chosen route. Developers can't magic up more console power, so if weather or lots of ai drag it down nothing can be done.