Your honest opinion about your expectations

[Exorcet]

For sure they should make old tracks available as DLC, free or otherwise, but I just feel it would be such a great experience as a GT fan to get something completely new. Imagine every A-spec race when you're earning money for cars, not one or two, but EVERY track was new. Its bad enough that sometimes you're made to grind in an underpowered car for money.. but around the same track over and over, the one youve been driving for years and years already?

I see the opposite. For one thing, after over a decade of driving Grand Valley and Deep Forest, I would wonder where they went in GT6 and why I can't experience them with [hopefully] vastly improved physics.

Secondly, removing tracks lowers the number of tracks which increases the feeling of grinding.

I can't say that I can understand why the old tracks would be removed.

 

[symustafa1996]

I think what this game may need is some fresh ideas. I think it may be time to move on from Kaz and have him develop something else and let someone else give this a try. Someone that isn't so stubborn and refuses to add features that even arcade racing games have adopted. Otherwise I feel that all we will ever get is the same game over and over with more and potentially better looking cars and a bunch of stuff that just makes you wonder WTH were they thinking when they did that.

Exactly! We need a new direction for the GT series. It's about time PD expand and either find new management or just cooperate with other external sources. It's like PD is totally drained of creativity and great, innovative ideas. They would be great if they are working for a car manufacturer, but video games? Seems to me they just can't compare to other gamin studios. I mean, look at Rockstar Games, Criterion Games, and another comparable Japanese studio, Kojima Productions. Polyphony Digital is too small of a company to handle a game as big as GT5. Kaz thinks he can make a perfect game with what they have now? His idea of a perfect game doesn't really fit in with what others say is a perfect game, and he doesn't have the resources and time to make the game perfect, hence the bad quality of half of GT5.

Just feel like the GT series need a reboot to establish itself as a great and competitive series in the current market. Right now, it's hanging there, between good and bad. So, expand and new management, or just have a look at their current direction for the series and have an overhaul.

 

[Pit Crew]

Kaz made GT5 not just because he wanted to make it; it also serves as a base for the next game, so he'll use that as a foundation for building GT6. Think of GT5 as a GT6: Prologue.

I'll be waiting for the true reveal, but for now, like CorvetteConquer said, we'll see.

EDIT:

@ CorvetteConquer: Kaz didn't really know about other car manufactures back when he started making GT, IIRC. He just met up with manufacturers, saw the cars for one day, and that was it. Now that the community has told him about Porsches and how he ironically OWNS two, I think he'll be adding some more cars into GT6.

GT series was originally conceived for the Asian market, though eventually Kaz invited curious car manufacturers into the fold, opening up the titles global fanbase opportunities.

Kaz is too wordly not to be aware of other auto makers.

 

[machschnel]

just cooperate with other external sources.

Is there any reason why Polyphony don't do this? Like sub-contract out certain work, just to speed things up to 21st century standards. It doesn't seem to have any adverse effects on Forza.

 

[HKS racer]

Is there any reason why Polyphony don't do this? Like sub-contract out certain work, just to speed things up to 21st century standards. It doesn't seem to have any adverse effects on Forza.

Yes, the reason is even with no outsorces lot of people will still buy the game.
"If you still pay me for less, why I should give you more?"

 

[Jubby]

Exactly! We need a new direction for the GT series... So, expand and new management, or just have a look at their current direction for the series and have an overhaul.

No. Do not redesign the GT series. The basic formula is perfect, that's why millions of copies of each game are sold. Sure, not everything is perfect, but the basis for the series is solid. It does not need to be changed dynamically.

 

[Shoe67]

No. Do not redesign the GT series. The basic formula is perfect, that's why millions of copies of each game are sold. Sure, not everything is perfect, but the basis for the series is solid. It does not need to be changed dynamically.

I agree with this. GT system has been perfect since GT3. Just need to keep working on physics, sounds, and adding cars, tracks

 

[Zr0]

No. Do not redesign the GT series. The basic formula is perfect, that's why millions of copies of each game are sold. Sure, not everything is perfect, but the basis for the series is solid. It does not need to be changed dynamically.

Exactly.

Is there any reason why Polyphony don't do this? Like sub-contract out certain work, just to speed things up to 21st century standards. It doesn't seem to have any adverse effects on Forza.

They are most like artisans and always have created all the assets in house under their process and quality control. Slow yes but GT graphics are famous for a reason. Outsourcing is good for some things but would create inconsistencies in the modeling and Polyphony are very serious about accuracy and details.

Anyway they are expanding their team and studio since GT5, so I guess that things will be faster for GT6.
https://www.gtplanet.net/polyphony-digital-now-hiring/

 

[ch3ng]

They are most like artisans and always have created all the assets in house under their process and quality control. Slow yes but GT graphics are famous for a reason. Outsourcing is good for some things but would create inconsistencies in the modeling and Polyphony are very serious about accuracy and details.

Is this he reason why the don't model the cars underneath the hood?

I saw better cars from other developer. Outsourcing would make the cars model better, because PD would have more time to do them.
They just need to make rules for the outsourcing companies and control the quality of the cars.

I don't see a problem. Maybe Sony won't want to use more money for alot more staff.

GT sells great. The fans will buy it anyway.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I agree with this. GT system has been perfect since GT3. Just need to keep working on physics, sounds, and adding cars, tracks

And adding other important features like better customization and a livery editor, for instance.

 

[Shoe67]

One thing they need to do is get rid of the level system. I loved GT3 and 4 because you had to do the licenses to unlock events. Also, credits need to be harder to acquire. I remember in GT3 racing for HOURS just to get a million credits. Now you can spend 1hour and have 10million credits.

 

[Griffith500]

That's something that needs to be addressed properly. I like the classic GT mode, but it fizzles out roughly once you've cleared the Clubman Cup, and just becomes Pokemon / completionist. I love that almost strategic use of race winnings (not necessarily race wins, which is also good) to best improve the car to tackle the next race. Once you get a few cars in the garage and a few races done, that all disappears and you can just throw money at a car and not really worry about "developing" it, since it'll easily obliterate the competition.

What I want to see is the classic GT mode combined in with the classic Arcade mode, to give that sort of game-y progression of moving through the championships etc. and offering nice, quick, easy-access thrills. Add to that a more punishing "career" mode that takes the tension, strategy and so on from those first few races (which car should I buy first? Et c.) and makes it into a more complete package, perhaps just sticking with one car for one full season of a club-level event (and being able to have several such seasons on the go at once, for variety). Finally, a sandbox mode would be great for those who feel held back by the artificial progression mechanics of the classic modes and would just bounce off a more hardcore mode entirely, or those who want to tailor their experience down to the last detail, like you can in most sims.

I expect most players would get something out of all three "modes".
Again, this is something I think GT has been promising from the start. Indeed, when I first read about GT1, that was how I had hoped it would play out (which it did, at first). There's a conflict between getting stuck into real racing and car tuning / development, and seeing all the content the game has to offer, which is why I think it needs to separate it out and do both aspects justice, as well as stay true to the gaming heritage GT was born from.

 

[Zer0]

Is this he reason why the don't model the cars underneath the hood?

I saw better cars from other developer. Outsourcing would make the cars model better, because PD would have more time to do them.
They just need to make rules for the outsourcing companies and control the quality of the cars.

I don't see a problem. Maybe Sony won't want to use more money for alot more staff.

GT sells great. The fans will buy it anyway.

How many cars with modeled underneath the hood made that other developer? and that with an staff 3 to 4 times bigger than GT5.

GT5 don't model those details because don't have an autovista mode that would need them. Ingame no one use that detail.

The're hiring new staff.

 

[Tornado]

Outsourcing is good for some things but would create inconsistencies in the modeling and Polyphony are very serious about accuracy and details.

GT5 don't model those details because don't have an autovista mode that would need them. Ingame no one use that detail.

Okay. Fair enough.

How many patches did it take for them to fix the very-obviously-wrong Audi R8 V10 again? Because it took them several to fix the Acura NSX, but I wasn't really counting for the Audi.

 

[Samus]

Ingame no one use that detail.

Yeah, because they don't implement damage where you would see that stuff if they did. Fact is sooner or later they're going to have to start detailing cars under the skin and not just the visible parts as they do now.

This is how you model a car to those standards:

That is a model from Project CARS, all of their cars go to that level of detail.

PD don't do that but they need to do so.

 

[Zer0]

http://www.abload.de/img/ahrweiler_strae_28ina.jpg


Okay. Fair enough.

How many patches did it take for them to fix the very-obviously-wrong Audi R8 V10 again? Because it took them several to fix the Acura NSX, but I wasn't really counting for the Audi.

No one said that GT don't have mistakes but the rate of deficiences and mistakes is much lower than that other developer outsourcing all the modelling work to various external sources. That other game has a lot of examples of inaccuracies that never has been fixed in years.

 

[Samus]

So PD employ stricter quality control. It's not excuse not to outsource when clearly your current staff just aren't big enough to create enough cars. I know personally I'd rather have 600~ cars and some of them being imperfect than ~300 cars with only a couple with problems.

 

[symustafa1996]

No. Do not redesign the GT series. The basic formula is perfect, that's why millions of copies of each game are sold. Sure, not everything is perfect, but the basis for the series is solid. It does not need to be changed dynamically.

But they changed the series in a bad way in GT5. The leveling system deeming the licenses unnecessary was a mistake, for example. Plus, credits are too easy to acquire, and online is just.........let's just say it wasn't the greatest. There's no sense of challenge and not enough replay value.They changed so mush of the basic formula, they ruined it. GT4 was better than GT5, there is nothing in GT5 that makes me want to play it again. It got boring quite fast after I finished it. And they need to fix their mistakes in GT6.

 

[JediRage]

One thing they need to do is get rid of the level system. I loved GT3 and 4 because you had to do the licenses to unlock events. Also, credits need to be harder to acquire. I remember in GT3 racing for HOURS just to get a million credits. Now you can spend 1hour and have 10million credits.

The return of elitism.

 

[Zer0]

Yeah, because they don't implement damage where you would see that stuff if they did. Fact is sooner or later they're going to have to start detailing cars under the skin and not just the visible parts as they do now.

This is how you model a car to those standards:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/249204_493940813970185_363642372_n.jpg
That is a model from Project CARS, all of their cars go to that level of detail.

PD don't do that but they need to do so.

I mean in that other game, even having assets to that detail they have no use ingame (gameplay).

In the next consoles and in race cars it would be nice to have all that internal detail if the damage gets more complex. Otherwise there is no point to model a car like that and waste time and the console resources.

So PD employ stricter quality control. It's not excuse not to outsource when clearly your current staff just aren't big enough to create enough cars. I know personally I'd rather have 600~ cars and some of them being imperfect than ~300 cars with only a couple with problems.

Again they are hiring new workers and expanding the studio, just wait and see. If you can it's much better to teach new modelers and supervise all the work in house than outsource, specially if you are better at doing that work than others.

 

[Spagetti69]

In the next consoles and in race cars it would be nice to have all that internal detail if the damage gets more complex. Otherwise there is no point to model a car like that and waste time and the console resources.

I thought PD had already future proofed there vehicles. Surely there going to have to do the detail at some point. They did stitching on seats after all.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Again they are hiring new workers and expanding the studio, just wait and see. If you can it's much better to teach new modelers and supervise all the work in house than outsource, specially if you are better at doing that work than others.

Except they aren't anymore. PD does not have any appreciable lead over other games when it comes to car model quality. Their lighting engine? Absolutely. But other games have car models that are just as high quality and accurate as GT's. True "artisans" wouldn't give me 800 of their last-generation, woefully outdated models. Neither would a "perfectionist".

That all said... I really like Griffith500's proposal, and I'd go for something like that in an instant! 👍

 

[Tornado]

That other game has a lot of examples of inaccuracies that never has been fixed in years.

The obvious response is to bring up the Standard cars, and how it would be easier to fix modelling deficiencies for a car you already have a base for than to start from scratch unless they are obnoxiously wrong.

In the next consoles and in race cars it would be nice to have all that internal detail if the damage gets more complex.

Looking increasingly likely that "the next consoles" is what PD is aiming at for their next game. And it would be an awful lot of work on those supposedly future-proof models to only use them for GT5.

specially if you are better at doing that work than others.

Not every Premium car is as good as the Ferrari F40. Likewise, the overwhelming majority of the Forza cars don't have problems like those of the C4 Corvette or NSX; and (with the exception of less of the interior being available) are perfectly comparable to PDs output for all but the most pedantic of players. Particularly since modeling quality is only one aspect of overall model accuracy, and the only one where PD can reasonably claim to be comparable with.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

My expectations are low right now, but I think GT6 could succeed and be the leader again if PD:

1. Create a more expansive and current car list. It was a HUGE disappointment when so many new cars were absent from GT5. The game's current roster would have been "meh...OK" if it were 2008. But the game's roster of cars in 2010 was not satisfactory. GT5's supercar list ignores Sweden's Koenigsegg, Germany's Gumpert and leaves RUF in standard-form, while in other games, RUF has been successfully celebrated (Forza, Driver and now Project Cars). I understand that development time is an issue, but when the world's third fastest production car is standard and two Suzuki Swifts are premium, it makes you question PD and Kaz, which isn't new.

2. Customization needs a HUGE overhaul. Customization is highly celebrated in Japan, and we see that every year Kaz picks a SEMA winner, which embraces car culture and adding personality to car enthusiast's own vehicles. Unfortunately, PD has yet to replicate this in Gran Turismo. We don't necessarily need the best livery editor out there, but to think we cannot even add stripes to a car is simply absurd.

3. A-Spec requires a reboot. It's the fifth installment with nearly the same events over and over. There just has to be new ideas circulating over in PD's HQ if GT6 is bound to succeed; GT5's A-Spec hasn't progressed at all. It's taken ten steps back. Not even one rally event? Really?

4. A.I. improvement- We all know how GT's A.I. operates.....👎 A time trial is not a race, but that's what GT's races are. They are merely time trials disguised as races. Where the competitors are slow and zombie-like (except for the leading rabbit car). A good and healthy race is anxiety-filled, exciting and has lead changes. When you find yourself blazing past 15 other cars and they don't catch up, you feel alone. You realize you're in a time trial to beat the first place car (whichever lap time PD has picked for it). Less zombie-like A.I., please.


Online is weak, too. The open lobby appears to be running on Windows 95. It's like reading through a wanted ad in the news paper.


There's a good start, PD.

 

[Zer0]

Except they aren't anymore. PD does not have any appreciable lead over other games when it comes to car model quality. Their lighting engine? Absolutely. But other games have car models that are just as high quality and accurate as GT's. True "artisans" wouldn't give me 800 of their last-generation, woefully outdated models. Neither would a "perfectionist".

That all said... I really like Griffith500's proposal, and I'd go for something like that in an instant! 👍

I mean bulk modelling of cars given the console resources. Sure that there are games with more hardware power to waste in the car details and textures but GT5 still has a finesse and a care for the details that is not common. I mean modelling accurate panel gaps, accurate grids, accurate proportions and pieces placements, branding detail, realistic colors, shaders and materials, etc.

You would be right if the 800 last generation models were modeled with the PS3 in mind and not exported from the old hardware. They were done with other specs in mind, same as the same car outsourced for FM1 and now outsourced for FM4, the quality vary but not the "artisans".

The obvious response is to bring up the Standard cars, and how it would be easier to fix modelling deficiencies for a car you already have a base for than to start from scratch unless they are obnoxiously wrong.


Looking increasingly likely that "the next consoles" is what PD is aiming at for their next game. And it would be an awful lot of work on those supposedly future-proof models to only use them for GT5.


Not every Premium car is as good as the Ferrari F40. Likewise, the overwhelming majority of the Forza cars don't have problems like those of the C4 Corvette or NSX; and (with the exception of less of the interior being available) are perfectly comparable to PDs output for all but the most pedantic of players. Particularly since modeling quality is only one aspect of overall model accuracy, and the only one where PD can reasonably claim to be comparable with.

You are confusing inaccuracies with the old hardware limiting the original modelling detail.

No one know if that level of internal detail would be necessary in GT6, think that the other developer would also need to update and work very hard to achieve that detail in all their cars. Is not just GT if you want that detail as standard for the next consoles. Given the low numbers of autovista cars I don't see that it will happen with the full grid of cars.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I mean bulk modelling of cars given the console resources. Sure that there are games with more hardware power to waste in the car details and textures but GT5 still has a finesse and a care for the details that is not common. I mean modelling accurate panel gaps, accurate grids, accurate proportions and pieces placements, branding detail, realistic colors, shaders and materials, etc.

Except that's exactly what I mean. That entire last sentence, actually; other games have caught up to GT5's level of detail.

You would be right if the 800 last generation models were modeled with the PS3 in mind and not exported from the old hardware. They were done with other specs in mind, same as the same car outsourced for FM1 and now outsourced for FM4, the quality vary but not the "artisans".

While I'm going to cut this short, as it's apparent you'd rather talk specifically about Forza and GT compared instead of other games (and lo and behold, you know there's multiple dedicated threads for that), there is no car model in FM4 that can be traced back, unchanged, to FM1. Those 800 Standards however...

Whatever specs the Standards were designed for, it doesn't change the fact that they were included in a game that's touted for it's industry-leading graphics, and considering they make up the majority of the car roster, that's quite a misnomer. Unless you want to tell me painted-on panel gaps are really what a group of artisans should be showcasing this generation.

You are confusing inaccuracies with the old hardware limiting the original modelling detail.

Did you miss the V8 engine inside the R8 V10?

No one know if that level of internal detail would be necessary in GT6, think that the other developer would also need to update and work very hard to achieve that detail in all their cars. Is not just GT if you want that detail as standard for the next consoles. Given the low numbers of autovista cars I don't see that it will happen with the full grid of cars.

My guess on AutoVista (and that whole sort of feature, if it were to appear in other games) is to simply give players a taste of the next generation. That's how I've always viewed that mode; though that may end up just being optimism, we don't know at this point. It'd certainly make sense...

 

[shurnster]

Yeah, because they don't implement damage where you would see that stuff if they did. Fact is sooner or later they're going to have to start detailing cars under the skin and not just the visible parts as they do now.

This is how you model a car to those standards:

That is a model from Project CARS, all of their cars go to that level of detail.

PD don't do that but they need to do so.

If I recall correctly, in one of Kaz's recent interviews, he mentioned about laser scanning on the cars (I can't find the link). Maybe they can pull that kind of detail in the next GT,(if on ps4) if they laser scan every part of the car. Prjoect CARS modeling looks impressive:tup:

 

[Samus]

Laser scanning the car only works for the outside, there is a video somewhere of Forza doing it for the Veyron. To model the guts of the car inside takes simple hard work and lots of reference data. The impressive thing about that pCARS model is that it was all done from just reference photos and videos, the modeller never saw the real car. Will it be 100% accurate? No but it's not going to be far off and the results are damn impressive.

Currently PD don't even model the inside of wheels/tyres. They're just a solid tyre on the inside. They've a long way to go.

 

[ch3ng]

How many cars with modeled underneath the hood made that other developer? and that with an staff 3 to 4 times bigger than GT5.

GT5 don't model those details because don't have an autovista mode that would need them. Ingame no one use that detail.

The're hiring new staff.

I didn't talked about Turn10.

So PD employ stricter quality control. It's not excuse not to outsource when clearly your current staff just aren't big enough to create enough cars. I know personally I'd rather have 600~ cars and some of them being imperfect than ~300 cars with only a couple with problems.

This. PD made impressive stuff with their car model staff, but they aren't the only one that can make this level of detail.

If we want a better damage model they need to improve the car modelling. But they don't have enough staff, because they want 1000 cars instead of quality. Sound is another problem.

I would prefer 300-400 cars with realistic sound and model unerneath the hood.

 

[loki993]

Honestly if anythings to be believed at this point In thinking maybe they haven't learned anything. Heres the deal, were 2 years out from the last game and what have we heard about the new one? Their working on some tracks? Anything else?
I'm really not sure I'm asking because I've been out of the loop for a while, but just coming back it doesn't look like much. Loos like it shaping up to be another 4 or 5 year wait and were going to get what we always get. All the while other games will continue improving.