Your honest opinion about your expectations

[Zuku]

I've told y'all don't get me wrong I love the GT series, but with GT5 I could tell they lived off pass GT success.

Again I've mentioned this in many other threads, but back when PS1 and PS2 were the IT consoles GT basically the king of the racers.

Because it got a jump start ahead of everyone else. Hell the only racing game whether it be arcade or sim racing that even was around when GT3 released was like Midnight Club 1 or even NFS: Hot Pursuit 2 at least off the top of my head those were two popular games at that point.

This generation PD didn't have that advantage and while people might not like arcade racers here and what not. They knew one thing PD forgot how to have some FUN.

Plus again what really hindered PD with GT5 was all those new features it might not seem like much, but there had to be about what 20 different new features(exaggerated probably around 10 though on the real).

*Nascar
*WRC
*Seasonals
*Weather
*Day/Night Cycles
*Online
*Course Maker
*Premium cars
*New Views
*Karting
*More cars on track at once
*Damage
*Leveling/PP System


Some of these might be minor and even some came along with GT5P, but regardless minor or not trying to do all these things at one time I believe people would have been satisfied with 3-5 of these instead of all of them.

Give me Damage, Weather, and Day and Night Cycles on every track and car and honestly I would have been able to hold over until GT6. This is assuming we get a better career mode then what were handed.

 

[deep_sky]

GT5 shipping 9m, and likely going to top 10, maybe 11m when all is said and done has really dented my expectations - and they weren't all that high to begin with. For ages I've been working on the assumption that GT5 would be the lowest selling title (which it looked like it would at one point), with the lowest acclaim, which might have forced PD to think about how to bring GT in the 21st century. But those sales numbers just render all of that void.

They now know that they ship anything, even something as broken and lackluster like GT5, and it's gonna sell extremely well. Now I'm not saying that PD even want to ship GT6 in the state that GT5 was, but the concerns people have about customisation, tuning, career and all the rest... what's the incentive for PD to deliver it, when it's just gonna sell well anyway?

Again, not saying that PD don't want to create something great, I'm sure they do. But when they see those sales, they must wonder why they need to improve the elements that fans are calling for, when it just sells an obscene amount. When you think about how far behind GT5 was/is to the competition, it's just criminal this game has done so well, whereas the competition does not.

 

[Earth]

GT5 shipping 9m, and likely going to top 10, maybe 11m when all is said and done has really dented my expectations - and they weren't all that high to begin with. For ages I've been working on the assumption that GT5 would be the lowest selling title (which it looked like it would at one point), with the lowest acclaim, which might have forced PD to think about how to bring GT in the 21st century. But those sales numbers just render all of that void.

They now know that they ship anything, even something as broken and lackluster like GT5, and it's gonna sell extremely well. Now I'm not saying that PD even want to ship GT6 in the state that GT5 was, but the concerns people have about customisation, tuning, career and all the rest... what's the incentive for PD to deliver it, when it's just gonna sell well anyway?

Again, not saying that PD don't want to create something great, I'm sure they do. But when they see those sales, they must wonder why they need to improve the elements that fans are calling for, when it just sells an obscene amount. When you think about how far behind GT5 was/is to the competition, it's just criminal this game has done so well, whereas the competition does not.

Great points.

The high sales of Gran Turismo 5 say to me that the current trend of "packaging is as important as the product" is certainly true. The graphics are selling the game...not much more.

Because of that, as you say, I fear Kaz won't see the need for big improvements to the series. He appears to be truly clueless of what his core fanbase wants. The sound is too realistic? I assume 90%+ of GT fans are not anywhere near be satisified with GT5's sound or think it is anything close to being realistic.

I suggest Kaz listen to this to understand what real sounds like in a game.

http://gtr3.com/

Sadly, I believe Kaz is a disconnected game developer in which GT has become nothing more then a tool for wealth and a doorway to racing real cars. I truly believe he is not interested in developing a great product anymore. Its all business to him now. At this point he's just milking the franchise. He's not interested in reinventing it or introducing groundbreaking gameplay changes or additions.

So far whats his big idea for GT6? Human emotion with GT Academy? Thats it? 24 months after GT5 and hes not sure if GT6 will have a leveling system or anything?

Gotta say I love the passion Dan Greenawalt appears to have when talking about Forza. I dont see that passion with Kaz anymore. I question how much input he has or wants on the game anymore.

What shocks me is the lack of fan input. Even Electronic Arts listens to fans for ideas when developing games. I highly doubt they even visit this forum for ideas.

 

[another_jakhole]

I'll wear myself out if I try.

So here...

December 10th, 2010: Has Kazunori Yamauchi finally sold out with Gran Turismo 5?
http://luminositymarketing.com/blog/?p=2712


The FULL PistonHeads interview article that GTPlanet didn't end up posting. It's insightful in that even this fanboy learned a little something.
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=26264


Looking for something, I found a post I made that would go well in here. Long read and it saved me the couple of hours I wasn't going to spend in here.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7601417#post7601417

 

[symustafa1996]

I've told y'all don't get me wrong I love the GT series, but with GT5 I could tell they lived off pass GT success.

Again I've mentioned this in many other threads, but back when PS1 and PS2 were the IT consoles GT basically the king of the racers.

Because it got a jump start ahead of everyone else. Hell the only racing game whether it be arcade or sim racing that even was around when GT3 released was like Midnight Club 1 or even NFS: Hot Pursuit 2 at least off the top of my head those were two popular games at that point.

This generation PD didn't have that advantage and while people might not like arcade racers here and what not. They knew one thing PD forgot how to have some FUN.

Plus again what really hindered PD with GT5 was all those new features it might not seem like much, but there had to be about what 20 different new features(exaggerated probably around 10 though on the real).

*Nascar
*WRC
*Seasonals
*Weather
*Day/Night Cycles
*Online
*Course Maker
*Premium cars
*New Views
*Karting
*More cars on track at once
*Damage
*Leveling/PP System


Some of these might be minor and even some came along with GT5P, but regardless minor or not trying to do all these things at one time I believe people would have been satisfied with 3-5 of these instead of all of them.

Give me Damage, Weather, and Day and Night Cycles on every track and car and honestly I would have been able to hold over until GT6. This is assuming we get a better career mode then what were handed.

All those features are fine, but they didn't use them well enough. For example, not enough WRC, NASCAR and Top Gear Stuff. In fact, the game just gently touched those features of the game. And night/ day and weather cycles are only available on some tracks.Damage is only completely available on 4 cars. 200 premium cars and 800 standard? Course maker and online is bad compared to other games. The licenses are no longer compulsory for you to race and well, more cars on the tracks is good if the AI isn't so annoying sometimes, with the first car tending to be a fast one that leaves everyone behind.

Seems to me they ran out of time to concentrate on one feature, opting to just touch on everything.

 

[another_jakhole]

All those features are fine, but they didn't use them well enough. For example, not enough WRC, NASCAR and Top Gear Stuff. In fact, the game just gently touched those features of the game. And night/ day and weather cycles are only available on some tracks.Damage is only completely available on 4 cars. 200 premium cars and 800 standard? Course maker and online is bad compared to other games. The licenses are no longer compulsory for you to race and well, more cars on the tracks is good if the AI isn't so annoying sometimes, with the first car tending to be a fast one that leaves everyone behind.

Seems to me they ran out of time to concentrate on one feature, opting to just touch on everything.

👍

Basing this series's future on one game/interview? doesn't make sense AT ALL, and this time, "AT ALL" means AT ALL. I've seen it used too often in the past few days for the wrong reasons.
GT5 was a letdown to everybody. Saying it's the worst in the series? There isn't a worst one. Would you consider any of Justin Bieber's top bop pop hits bad? The answer is, NO, never.


One thing to the members that I cannot dare myself to reply to:

• We want DLC! The DLC content is bad and overpriced.
• T10 works fast, PD work slow! Kaz doesn't SELL us DLC as often as T10, which makes it so that there isn't only less than 100 new cars in GT6.
• We want better updates! PD tweaks GT5 to prolong it's life and to prepare future GT5 versions FOR the future; see GT4.
• Sounds are bad, mmkay? PD have tried to "fix" them through updates.
• Wastes time on GT5 updates instead of GT6, why?

Yes, he's in it for the money. Cares not for us. One race a year, who does this man think he is!?!?!? Multi-millionaire with as many cars as I can count on one hand! Not a true car enthusiast! RAWR!

 

[symustafa1996]

👍

Basing this series's future on one game/interview? doesn't make sense AT ALL, and this time, "AT ALL" means AT ALL. I've seen it used too often in the past few days for the wrong reasons.
GT5 was a letdown to everybody. Saying it's the worst in the series? There isn't a worst one. Would you consider any of Justin Bieber's top bop pop hits bad? The answer is, NO, never.


One thing to the members that I cannot dare myself to reply to:

• We want DLC! The DLC content is bad and overpriced.
• T10 works fast, PD work slow! Kaz doesn't SELL us DLC as often as T10, which makes it so that there isn't only less than 100 new cars in GT6.
• We want better updates! PD tweaks GT5 to prolong it's life and to prepare future GT5 versions FOR the future; see GT4.
• Sounds are bad, mmkay? PD have tried to "fix" them through updates.
• Wastes time on GT5 updates instead of GT6, why?

Yes, he's in it for the money. Cares not for us. One race a year, who does this man think he is!?!?!? Multi-millionaire with as many cars as I can count on one hand! Not a true car enthusiast! RAWR!

The way you're saying it, it sounds like T10 is the one milking Forza money. They work fast because of outsourcing. There's a reason they don't sell DLC as much, they don't have enough employees to model the cars, tracks, etc. Wastes time on GT5 updates instead of GT5? You just said you want better updates! Plus, not all of PD works on updates.

 

[Tenacious D]

If you've read one post about "monopolies" and referencing some mythical article known only to him, you've read them all. There will be a complaint about the same game in every post, no matter how little it has to do with the current topic, and the irony of him complaining about GT5 complainers will be lost in that regard.

And this isn't the "smite Forza at every opportunity I possible without provocation" site, either. So, as usual, you've contradicted yourself.

I've heard this story so many times before how have I not been able to predict it up until now?

Oh, and if we've read one post about GT5 from you two, we've read them all. There will be a complaint about how GT5 is really a PS2 game masquerading as a PS3 game in every post, no matter how little it has to do with the current topic.

Wow, lying about you two really makes me look smarter, dunnit. /accusation

And I have to reiterate something. You guys act like it's just great that GT5 is everyone's punching bag, but you get all buttsore if anyone DARES criticize MS or Forza.

Hypocrisy much.

Do I really have to utterly and completely disprove this for a third time?

Look, Scaffo, the fiscal year isn't over by a long shot yet. My LAST dig into SONY's situation was for the 2012 report, because the stuff for this year so far was a bunch of CPA-ese which DID HAVE a bunch of parenthesis around amounts like "Net working capital (deficit) (775,019) M-yen." Once again, I could glean that SONY was counting on income from Media and Gaming divisions to keep it above water overall because Consumer Electronics wasn't doing too well. And overall, it wasn't looking robust, but this is a fiscal year a little over half done. So, Mr Tough Guy, I didn't figure that looking at SONY in an essentially HALF done fiscal year made much sense. Capiche?

So the fullest picture I had was of the 2012 Fiscal Report which had this to say (link to Yoystiq because the BizWire link is dead):

Which reads:

Sony's financial results for the fiscal year ending on March 31, 2012 are in, with the Japanese giant reporting year-over-year losses in revenue and operating losses that it attributes to "the unfavorable impact of foreign exchange rates, the impact of the Great East Japan Earthquake and the floods in Thailand, and deterioration in market conditions in developed countries."

Sony's fiscal 2012 ran from April 1, 2011 through March 31, 2012, with the company reporting net revenue of ¥6.49 trillion ($79.1 billion), down 9.6 percent year-over-year from the ¥7.18 trillion (approx. $89 billion) reported at the end of fiscal 2010. After expenses, Sony reports an operating loss of ¥67.3 billion ($820 million), which is actually a smaller loss than that reported at the end of fiscal 2011 (¥199.8 billion/approx $2 billion).

Now, America is raking in about two trillion dollars in 2013, but spent about THREE POINT FIVE trillion, so FAR. And only a gubmint can afford to lose money every year. Or are you one of those liberals to which deficits don't matter?

Oh yeah, carry on with the actual discussion and stuff.

 

[Tornado]

Still don't know the difference between revenue, income and cash flows, I see.

And I have to reiterate something. You guys act like it's just great that GT5 is everyone's punching bag, but you get all buttsore if anyone DARES criticize MS or Forza.

Oh noes! People don't want Tenacious to post nonsense about Microsoft being teh evulz in a thread where it isn't even remotely relevant! The huge matinee!

 

[Tenacious D]

Oh noes, Toronado once again has nothing to contribute to a thread but criticism... as usual.

Anyhow, for an actual discussion thing...

What about (outsourcing in) the long run? Also, with proper management of resources, I don't think outsourcing needs to be more expensive. Outsourcing also allows you to find a sizeable team quickly, instead of occasional qualified applicants popping up every so often, and you don't need to spend time and money training them because they're likely already good at what they do.

...Maybe it's different in video games, but out sourcing doesn't have to work that way. I basically work for a company that does the outsource aero work for other companies. We don't just take a project, finish it, and then part ways. It's natural to expect the client to continue doing business, which means that they will have more work to do. We like to keep in touch so that we can assist them with future projects, or even keep track of past projects so we can resolve any problems or issues that may come up. Some people actually spend more time at the client's office then our own offices.

Yeah... I'm assuming a lot based on how the business model works in other areas. And okay folks, gonna discuss Microsoft and stuff so don't cry or anything.

With Forza 4 and the rumored astronomical price tag, like perhaps $40 million more than GT5, I attribute that to the cost of outsourcing since they didn't have to license as many cars. And there are a couple of considerations there. I don't know how much it cost to contract the Hollywood graphic studio who coded the lighting engine for FM4, but it had to be substantial - Hollywood doesn't know the meaning of the word "affordable." And while hiring a modeling house in Vietnam probably doesn't cost as much as one from India, they did contract out to at least four shops according to our own amar212.

This will be for the class since you're undoubtedly up on the subject. Contracting out work tends to be a big bill at once, because the contractor needs to make a profit off the deal, compared to in-house workers who are salaried, and their payroll is amortized over time. Maybe the Forza contractors treated Microsoft like defense contractors do, since MS is essentially made of money, and did some cost gouging. I dunno, both sides agreed to whatever it was, so that's their business. Maybe a potential contractor for Polyphony might cut them a deal because they're so chummy in the market and well regarded. But that's usually not how business works.

And another thing is that modeling isn't one of those fields which you can count on a steady stream of work, like you can in the automotive market, where there will always be a demand for spark plugs and other parts. In that kind of market you can cut deals based on a potential work legacy which spans years. So I don't know how a potential contract with PD would work out. I know this is pure speculation since I doubt it will ever happen, but if it did, I can't imagine it would be very affordable, being a short term deal. I think SONY would much rather push Kaz to contract work in-house for the duration of the GT6 project, which I doubt he would like at all. I guess we'll see.

I don't know if (racing game evolution is) true or not, but if it is I can think of a bunch of reasons why that does not have to be.

...More evolution? Not in everything. I would really count the odd mutations that don't really go anywhere as evolution (paint chips, for example).

Well..... this depends too. Evolution to me is something like Need For Speed, which gets into things I don't like at all, like drifting competition, drag racing, then really silly things like Cops n Robbers, Cat n Mouse, or that ludicrous Car Bowling in Forza 4, which I has shocked to see was IN the career mode! Jeepers.

I know that Drifting is in GT5 too, but that's something inevitable in a game based around automotive generalia like GT5 and Forza, which you would never see in a GTR. Touge may be next, along with Drag Racing which I don't care for either, and I hope is a peripheral thing that isn't required. Good for the series? Yeah, sure, it gives it some more sex appeal to the kids and "tear around" crowd, even though I'd turn my nose up at it. And truck racing, meh.

What I want to see in Gran Turismo is more like expansion into things like serious Rally racing based on the league. And more league oriented modes based on Super GT, DTM, BTCC, Touring Car, ALMS, our SCCA, F1 or Indy if possible. And what I really want to see is a serious separate Career Mode like that in Project CARS - it's like they read my post from way back in 2005 on the GT4 boards! - which gives you the path through a racing career from a hobbyist level with a sports car - one car - and then work your way up to league racing in the league of your choice. Now THAT would be evolution I doubt I'd ever stop playing. Heck, I'm still playing my eight year old PS2 hockey game, and ten year old Phantasy Star Online on Dreamcast.

If I could have a GT6 which had a special Career Mode like that, with even better physics, I wouldn't want another racer. Except GT7.

 

[Scaff]

Look, Scaffo, the fiscal year isn't over by a long shot yet. My LAST dig into SONY's situation was for the 2012 report, because the stuff for this year so far was a bunch of CPA-ese which DID HAVE a bunch of parenthesis around amounts like "Net working capital (deficit) (775,019) M-yen." Once again, I could glean that SONY was counting on income from Media and Gaming divisions to keep it above water overall because Consumer Electronics wasn't doing too well. And overall, it wasn't looking robust, but this is a fiscal year a little over half done. So, Mr Tough Guy, I didn't figure that looking at SONY in an essentially HALF done fiscal year made much sense. Capiche?

So the fullest picture I had was of the 2012 Fiscal Report which had this to say (link to Yoystiq because the BizWire link is dead):

Which reads:


Now, America is raking in about two trillion dollars in 2013, but spent about THREE POINT FIVE trillion, so FAR. And only a gubmint can afford to lose money every year. Or are you one of those liberals to which deficits don't matter?

Oh yeah, carry on with the actual discussion and stuff.

I've already linked to the 2012 fiscal report, which still has cash assets in the billions.

As such your claim (and it was yours) that Sony are Cash Strapped is once again totally and utterly incorrect.

The Q2 report is as up to date as things get (and actually look worse than the Q4 FY12 report due to numerous purchases - that's right a cash strapped company is buying other businesses), and still show cash assets and firm lines of credit.

Sony are so far from cash strapped its utterly inane to claim otherwise, however you keep repeating the same thing despite knowing it to be incorrect, on top of which you are again resorting to personal digs and insults.

As such you can take a few days off, and be aware that if you continue on your return you will be banned for good.

 

[MoLiEG]

I want PD to prove me wrong, but I think we will have a very average-below average game again...

 

[Tornado]

Oh noes, Toronado once again has nothing to contribute to a thread but criticism... as usual.

You say something factually wrong multiple times over multiple threads, you link to things that do nothing to prove your statement but do prove that you don't know what you're talking about enough to even tell when people show why you're wrong (because, again, income ≠ revenue ≠ cash assets/cash flow; which is important because the only thing that matters to what you are saying about Sony not having any money is the last thing), and you hide it behind a smoke and mirrors show blaming another company for being more successful even though the other company isn't relevant in the slightest. You do this enough that people come to expect you to do the entire schtick regardless of the relevance to the discussion.



And that's my fault for pointing that out?

 

[FsharpAsharp]

GT6 will be a fantastic, truly time consuming game as usual. Also, it will be a massive dissapointment in certain aspects.

As usual.

 

[Zuku]

I want PD to prove me wrong, but I think we will have a very average-below average game again...

After GT5 if GT6 is even remotely bad people will jump ship if no one hasn't already.

To play another sub-par/mediocre game like GT5 again think the entire GTplanet members might jump off a cliff lol.

 

[JediRage]

After GT5 if GT6 is even remotely bad people will jump ship if no one hasn't already.

To play another sub-par/mediocre game like GT5 again think the entire GTplanet members might jump off a cliff lol.

I wouldn't count on it. The amount of people still in denial over GT5 is substantial as it is.

 

[Tornado]

Anyway...

GT5 shipping 9m, and likely going to top 10, maybe 11m when all is said and done has really dented my expectations - and they weren't all that high to begin with. For ages I've been working on the assumption that GT5 would be the lowest selling title (which it looked like it would at one point), with the lowest acclaim, which might have forced PD to think about how to bring GT in the 21st century. But those sales numbers just render all of that void.

They now know that they ship anything, even something as broken and lackluster like GT5, and it's gonna sell extremely well. Now I'm not saying that PD even want to ship GT6 in the state that GT5 was, but the concerns people have about customisation, tuning, career and all the rest... what's the incentive for PD to deliver it, when it's just gonna sell well anyway?

Again, not saying that PD don't want to create something great, I'm sure they do. But when they see those sales, they must wonder why they need to improve the elements that fans are calling for, when it just sells an obscene amount. When you think about how far behind GT5 was/is to the competition, it's just criminal this game has done so well, whereas the competition does not.

Great points.

The high sales of Gran Turismo 5 say to me that the current trend of "packaging is as important as the product" is certainly true. The graphics are selling the game...not much more.

Because of that, as you say, I fear Kaz won't see the need for big improvements to the series. He appears to be truly clueless of what his core fanbase wants. The sound is too realistic? I assume 90%+ of GT fans are not anywhere near be satisified with GT5's sound or think it is anything close to being realistic.

Just like sales don't mean anything for the quality of this game, they don't mean anything for the quality of the next. If PD were just out for the quick buck, we would still be on the unfinished mess that was GT5 1.0. If PD were out for a quick buck, we would already have GT6. I have no reason to believe that Kaz, or anyone at PD, are sales focused for their reasoning of making GT games. Games like Gran Turismo and Forza aren't Madden. There's clearly care put into them. And while I didn't read the things another_jackhole linked to, but I'm sure they allude to my point anyway.


It does come with a corollary, in that (and I'm sure the irony of me saying this won't be lost on anyone) Sony might see how a buck or two can be saved by not doing proper QA work for GT6 or trying to interfere with the development process; but if Kaz stays fast in whatever PD are working on he certainly has the clout to keep them from releasing it against their wishes.

 

[Zuku]

I wouldn't count on it. The amount of people still in denial over GT5 is substantial as it is.

You're right I do tend to forget that and honestly I wish I did.

 

[another_jakhole]

I wouldn't count on it. The amount of people still in denial over GT5 is substantial as it is.

IIIII don't see how it's denial when we're finding enjoyment out of it still. What do you mean by denial? Well, you don't have to answer that.

 

[Imari]

IIIII don't see how it's denial when we're finding enjoyment out of it still. What do you mean by denial? Well, you don't have to answer that.

Just because you enjoy it doesn't mean it isn't flawed. I enjoy F1 2012, and there's all sorts of things wrong with that game.

 

[Ip46VR]

Reading alot of comments and suggestions I hope they really do listen and learn and use a lot of these suggestions

 

[Zuku]

IIIII don't see how it's denial when we're finding enjoyment out of it still. What do you mean by denial? Well, you don't have to answer that.

You're finding enjoyment out of a game that is fatally flawed that's what I don't understand.

Every game comes with flaws, but when a game has too many to count, and is still considered a good game that's what baffles me the most.

Especially considering how in detail people go to tell you about each said flaw.

Really GT5 made me consider getting a Gamefly because in reality it's only good for a rental.

 

[Tornado]

You're finding enjoyment out of a game that is fatally flawed that's what I don't understand.

GT5 isn't "fatally flawed," and even if it was it isn't your place to dictate what people get enjoyment out of.




That isn't to say that there aren't members who are in denial about GT5's shortcomings (just go into one of the two Vs. threads to see that on full display. No shortage of people who make factually incorrect statements but defend them far beyond rational thinking, all the way up until they oddly vanish from the thread) or ridiculously try to spin those shortcomings into objective positives (I've seen people try to say the inability to take Standard cars to Photo Travel as something you should be thankful for as a player), but what you are asserting the "denial" to be isn't what it is.

 

[Zuku]

GT5 isn't "fatally flawed," and even if it was it isn't your place to dictate what people get enjoyment out of.




That isn't to say that there aren't members who are in denial about GT5's shortcomings (just go into one of the two Vs. threads to see that on full display. No shortage of people who make factually incorrect statements but defend them far beyond rational thinking, all the way up until they oddly vanish from the thread) or ridiculously try to spin those shortcomings into objective positives (I've seen people try to say the inability to take Standard cars to Photo Travel as something you should be thankful for as a player), but what you are asserting the "denial" to be isn't what it is.

Maybe that was a bit to strong of a word I'll agree to that, but I will still say that GT5 is still a mediocre game that people don't want to admit it is.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Maybe that was a bit to strong of a word I'll agree to that, but I will still say that GT5 is still a mediocre game that people don't want to admit it is.

Can't believe I'm saying this but as much as I don't like GT5, I wouldn't say it's mediocre and even if I did, that's still an opinion. GT5 still has some good points and that's why people are still playing it. Those good points just aren't strong enough to make me want to play it again unfortunately. If this game at least had matchmaking, I would be playing again.

A mediocre racing game in my opinion is garbage like NFS Undercover.

 

[MoLiEG]

You're finding enjoyment out of a game that is fatally flawed that's what I don't understand.

Every game comes with flaws, but when a game has too many to count, and is still considered a good game that's what baffles me the most.

Especially considering how in detail people go to tell you about each said flaw.

Really GT5 made me consider getting a Gamefly because in reality it's only good for a rental.

You know, that's the strange thing with GT5... it has a LOT of flaws... but it's still a playable and fun game...

Would I call it mediocre??? Well... maybe... Yes. Mainly because of those flaws we all know, taking into account the reputation PD and Kaz have (IMHO it should be on the ground), and the developing time they took to create the game... Taking that into consideration, some, or most of the flaws of the game, simply have no excuse...

 

[another_jakhole]

Can't believe I'm saying this but as much as I don't like GT5, I wouldn't say it's mediocre and even if I did, that's still an opinion. GT5 still has some good points and that's why people are still playing it. Those good points just aren't strong enough to make me want to play it again unfortunately. If this game at least had matchmaking, I would be playing again.

A mediocre racing game in my opinion is garbage like NFS Undercover.

That's what's keeping me from enjoying the online much or at all. The online (not sure what FM4's is like) is in a lot of ways worse than average.

For a game, I think GT5 isn't as good as the others, it's average. For a car game, I don't see how I can ever play any other GT game that came before it and enjoy it as much or for as long. That means I think it's purrty good.

Just because you enjoy it doesn't mean it isn't flawed. I enjoy F1 2012, and there's all sorts of things wrong with that game.

First of all, you're wrong.

/s

Second of all, you're putting words in my mouth. Eww.

 

[Nattefrost]

Unless they start getting their priorities right, it won't be pretty. Gran Turismo doesn't need a 1000 cars, nor does it need cars that are as ridiculously detailed as the Premiums. Somewhere in between would be ideal. It needs a lot more circuits, a much more involving career mode and loads more customization option. Less straightforward single races and more involving championships, seasons, challenges, etc. The ability to create custom championships with an exhaustive rule-set and rewards that are calculated automatically by the applied rules, length, difficulty of the circuits, etc. It needs to have a wealth of options that all feel meaningful.

That is what GT6 should be. Not a GT5 with more Premium cars and slightly more tracks.

 

[Griffith500]

^ You're right, although I think the Premiums are here to stay, which actually isn't that bad.

 

[JAHHAJ]

^ You're right, although I think the Premiums are here to stay, which actually isn't that bad.

It's the oppisite of bad in my opinion.