Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Killinator]

Seems to me like you are totally missing the point. Gran Turismo is a constantly evolving series, and Kaz surely had ideas right back before the original Gran Turismo that he still has not been able to implement, either because of technical limitations or other more important additions. Things like Karts will have been developed as part of the roadmap, intended for GT6, but circumstances meant that they decided to bring that forward for GT5. This does not mean that resource was needlessly sacrificed in order to bring it forward.

Development of GT6 is not "in addition to", or "instead of" GT5. It is all part of the same programme. When Kaz decides he is happy enough for the current build to be deserving of a full release, that will mark the cut-off point and GT5 as you know it will be born. Development will continue further, and we'll end up with GT6 eventually.

I think maybe Kaz is missing the point a bit,

I don't buy that when hes happy he releases a game, becasue apparently at the press interview he was all dissappointed about how they couldn't manage any form of cockpit view for Standard models.
When GT6 eventually arrives, there will (more than likely)be mistakes/omissions but again very few will say its PD/Kaz's fault, they'll just say we'll get it in GT7,

I dont accept the attitude that Kaz has decided to give us a game because the materials he has for eventual GT6 make up enough for GT5, he should have stuck to the road map for GT5 and then continued his quest for GT6,
Its not like GT6 is some pinnacle of gaming where its complete thats it, its done, no more GT.
Kaz will just use his favorite number 90, as in 90% to say thats how close he is to completing his vision,
Meanwhile while everyone is supposed to say, "thats Kaz!!!-(cheesy sitcom audience laughter, then credits)".

 

[Spagetti69]

My understanding was that the kart issue was leaked by some Sony know all. Kaz felt obliged to add it, when it was meant for GT6.

Kaz is probably his own biggest critic. He knows the dissapointment reagrding the standards and he's probably dissapointed more than us.

Maybe the kart addition was a token gesture by him to add, because he felt he let his fans down.

I am only guessing on how he feels. He's his own man.
The late addition probably explains the flag fiasco aswell. They were probably waiting to get permission for GT6 but the way things went it was forgotten in all the haste to add.

Just my theorys.

 

[Pierced Lead]

Its not that Go-Karts are a bad inclusion, its great,
The point is (assuming Kaz wasn't bull****ing again) that the karts were being worked on for GT6,
Why when there was/is so much needing attention/completion in GT5(ala standard/premium fiasco/ livery editor) are they working on GT6,
So many people are backing up Kaz and PD saying they only had 140 or so staff working for them, then some of them go off working on GT6,
I'm sorry but thats just insane, and seems Kaz went off (with some of his team) on a tangent.

Saying a person who criticises the games faults shouldn't buy the game is a childish, basic response,
Just becasue we are criticising the game dosnt mean we are not fans, I suspect in some case many of the "whingers, moaners and nit-pickers" are much bigger fans then the "lets just accept it, Kaz wills it" brigade.

I'm happy for anyone who can see past Standards/Preiums situation, more power to them, I'm sure they'll enjoy the game,

But I know there'll be a tinge of dissapointment everytime I go to buy a car that I like and then dont buy it becasue it turns out its standard,
I'm certain many of the cars I love wont be Premium even though they are pretty famous cars that have every right to be Premium,

And what the hell is gonna happen when we try to bring a standard car into photo travel, or will that be another aspect of the game with 'but' attached to it

You have a point there.

I guess he was compelled to implement it in this version because of the secret spilling from Sony's mouth and maybe to save face the guys at Sony said:

"Karts or GTFO"

 

[Killinator]

You have a point there.

I guess he was compelled to implement it in this version because of the secret spilling from Sony's mouth and maybe to save face the guys at Sony said:

"Karts or GTFO"

I can imagine it now,

Sony: "Wow, you didnt tell us there would be karts in GT5"
Kaz: "There isnt, its for GT6"
Sony: "???????"

 

[Spagetti69]

Sony" uh Kaz, that expenses trip to area 51"

Kaz. " GT109 boss, space shuttle mode"

 

[Lambo88]

Was thinking about this the other day and here's my best logical guess on wich premiums we'll get to complete the picture:

-Ferrari F50 (we got the F40 and Enzo, why not get the trio)
-Ferrari 250 GTO (THE Ferrari classic)
-F360,355 (seen in photo taking sessions before)
-LFA, HSV 010GT,CR-Z,Alfa TZ that won Pebble Beach '09 (announced by PD)
-Mitsu 3000GT,last-gen Supra (old GT classics we haven't seen premium yet)
-Lambo Diablo, Reventon, maybe LP 670 and Gallardo 570 Superleggera
-McLaren MP4-12C (Forza has it, so does the New NFS, why not GT?)
-Corvette C6R, Aston DBR9 (Modern Le mans classics)
-2011 Mustang 5.0 (PD's relationship with american carmakers is better now)
-Gotta have the Shelby GT500 from 2007 onwards
-2009 CTS-V(world's fastest production sedan)
-Formula One cars(Red Bull,Honda,Toyota,Renault,McLaren,etc from '07-'08 season)
-New DTM cars (The A4 and hopefully the C class Benz)

Those are the ones I can name from the top of my head...

that would round out the package nicely

 

[Gryzor]

I dont accept the attitude that Kaz has decided to give us a game because the materials he has for eventual GT6 make up enough for GT5, he should have stuck to the road map for GT5 and then continued his quest for GT6,
Its not like GT6 is some pinnacle of gaming where its complete thats it, its done, no more GT.

Nobody said that GT6 is some pinnacle of gaming where after that there will be no more GT. However, to think that they should work on GT5 without an eye on the future is being a bit naive, and yes, that means developing stuff that may or may not make it into the current game.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

I remember a 1999 interview with Kaz,he was working on GT3 at the time,or rather 'GT2000' and he said,with the eventual release of the PS3 (he was using a ps2 dev kit at the time) ,Even if we have 1000 times the processing power we have now,we would still need more.He then said,even with the ps3,they'd reach maybe 90% of what he envisions for full photorealistic graphics and true to life physics.I have to lol at the fact in 2010 he stated their at 90% of realising his vision for GT.

 

[Gejost]

Think about it, GT5 will feature:

3D, GPS, Head-tracking, a Course Maker, updated Photomode, B-Spec is back, Weather, Day/Night Cycle, Night Racing, Nascar with Pit Crew, Go-karts, Rally, updated Physics, updated Sound, updated Force Feedback for steering wheels, updated Multiplayer, great Graphics with incredible Detail, Dynamic Crowd, 70+ Tracks, 1000+ Cars, about 20% of them with an amazing detailed cockpit view, different Damage models, with Interior Damage for Premium Cars, Rollovers, they even modeled the undersides of all the premium cars for this if I'm not mistaken, and I'm sure I missed something.

That's a massive job to say the least, even in 5 years. What other racegame on the market or even in the making will have this many features? I don't think any comes even close.

And yes, the lack of a cockpit view for most of the cars does bother me a bit, I also became very fond of it since Prologue. And I'm looking forward to see and race with the interior view of the premium cars. But keep in mind that it also takes time to precisely model each interior. Another 800+ cars would suretenly take alot of time. Let alone if they would get the exterior to the same detail as the premium cars.

We could argue that the cockpit view is more important than some other features, but apparently PD thinks otherwise. Or perhaps it was just to big of a task, I don't know. It is a letdown, but I'm sure they had a reason for it.

And you guys have valid reason to complain about PD showing us only Premium cars for the last few years, it does suck that there are two types of cars, but there is nothing we can do about it. We will just have to accept it.

 

[Killinator]

Was thinking about this the other day and here's my best logical guess on wich premiums we'll get to complete the picture:

-Ferrari F50 (we got the F40 and Enzo, why not get the trio)
-Ferrari 250 GTO (THE Ferrari classic)
-F360,355 (seen in photo taking sessions before)
-LFA, HSV 010GT,CR-Z,Alfa TZ that won Pebble Beach '09 (announced by PD)
-Mitsu 3000GT,last-gen Supra (old GT classics we haven't seen premium yet)
-Lambo Diablo, Reventon, maybe LP 670 and Gallardo 570 Superleggera
-McLaren MP4-12C (Forza has it, so does the New NFS, why not GT?)
-Corvette C6R, Aston DBR9 (Modern Le mans classics)
-2011 Mustang 5.0 (PD's relationship with american carmakers is better now)
-Gotta have the Shelby GT500 from 2007 onwards
-2009 CTS-V(world's fastest production sedan)
-Formula One cars(Red Bull,Honda,Toyota,Renault,McLaren,etc from '07-'08 season)
-New DTM cars (The A4 and hopefully the C class Benz)

Those are the ones I can name from the top of my head...

that would round out the package nicely

I would hope the 2010 R15 would be included or else its a pretty big fail, what would we race the 908 agaisnt?

 

[analog]

I would hope the 2010 R15 would be included or else its a pretty big fail, what would we race the 908 agaisnt?

The R10 TDi perhaps? They raced each other in real life too before the R15 appeared.

 

[Killinator]

The R10 TDi perhaps? They raced each other in real life too before the R15 appeared.

Well theres that
but with the new 2010 908 they should really have the 2010 R15, it did after all get a 1,2,3 finish this year(24hr du mans), unlike the 908, which of 4 cars none finished the race.

Edit: just want to state I'm actual a Puegeot fan

Nobody said that GT6 is some pinnacle of gaming where after that there will be no more GT. However, to think that they should work on GT5 without an eye on the future is being a bit naive, and yes, that means developing stuff that may or may not make it into the current game.

I would be fine with them developing stuff for a future game if they could spare the time, but there seems to be a general opinion that PD were time limited as to how many premiums they could make, hence to me it seems they should have been working on the parts of the game that needed finishing with their 'limited' staff instead of working on features they didnt intend for the game they are currently supposed to be working on.

 

[warp9engage]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128481&page=234#post3977897

and no the picture in question was not photoshopped, PD do not photoshop anything. The reason why the official premium screenshots look the way they do it because they are taken using GT5's photomode.

Besides why would they photoshop anything to make it look worse!

Robin.

Actually, the picture is photoshopped. I've added some notes to it to explain my points:

I apologise that some of the text is quite difficult to read but I hope it's enough to prove the picture is photoshopped. But one thing is certain, even if the picture isn't true, I seriously think PD is doing little or nothing to improve them and I fear that they will look quite bad .

 

[IKizzLE]

Cars that need to be premium

-Aston Martin DBR9 Race Car
-Aston Martin One-77
-Audi R15
-Audi S5
-Bentley Continental SuperSports Coupe
-BMW M6
-BMW Z8
-Cadillac CTS-V
-Caparo T1
-Devon GTX
-Ferrari FXX
-Ferrari F50 GT
-Gumpert Apollo
-Hennessey Venom GT
-Honda CR-Z
-Honda HSV-010 GT
-Hyundai Genesis Coupe SE
-Infiniti G37S Coupe
-Joss JT1
-Koenigsegg CCR
-Koenigsegg CCGT
-Koenigsegg CCX
-Lamborghini Diablo
-Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera
-Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 SuperVeloce
-Lamborghini Reventon
-Lexus LFA
-Maserati MC12
-Mclaren F1 LM
-Mclaren MP4-12C
-Mercedes CLK GTR
-Mosler MT900S
-Noble M600
-Radical SR9
-Rossion Q1
-Ruf RGT
-Ruf RT 12 S Coupe
-Ruf CTR3
-Saleen Mustang 435S
-Saleen S7 Twin Turbo
-Shelby GT500 Coupe
-Spyker C12 Zagato
-SSC Ultimate Aero TT
-Toyota GT-One Road Car
-TVR Cerbera Speed 12
-Weismann GT MF5

 

[Jay]

Actually, the picture is photoshopped. I've added some notes to it to explain my points:

*image*

I apologise that some of the text is quite difficult to read but I hope it's enough to prove the picture is photoshopped. But one thing is certain, even if the picture isn't true, I seriously think PD is doing little or nothing to improve them and I fear that they will look quite bad .

Pretty much all these screens have been made up/doctored in some way. As a addition to what you have pointed out look at the G meter, the car we have to be swinging to the left (drivers POV) hard to have almost 2 g's like that. Also have a look at S1 time, not only is it way too high and shows the wrong sector but by coincidence it matches the best lap time exactly..

These i my opinion are just examples/design concepts, IIRC Prologue had a buch of screens that didn't make sense either by looking at the telemetry.

 

[shirakawaa]

It appears that people are mistaking "premium" for "sports/race/super cars".
I personally would prefer to see more "sub 100hp" and "sub 200hp" premium cars than the usual (often overrated) super and race cars.
But yes, I'd imagine that several of those above would be premium cars.

 

[GT5_ZR1]

I just want the BMW 850CSi premium
And I was worried about the cockpit thing but I don't really care anymore just give me the hood/roof view and I'll be happy

 

[analog]

And now even this thread seems to go through a wishlist phase apparantly.

 

[Dravonic]

Do you ever have anything positive to say or are you always deliberately negative just so you can get a reaction. Rather than being positive that we have Go-Karts for GT5 instead of GT6 you see this as an opporuntity for being negative yet again.

Do yourself and others a favour and don't buy GT5!

Ad hominem

Do yourself a favor and check my post history. Don't limit your search to this thread and you should be surprised.

Its not that Go-Karts are a bad inclusion, its great,
The point is (assuming Kaz wasn't bull****ing again) that the karts were being worked on for GT6,
Why when there was/is so much needing attention/completion in GT5(ala standard/premium fiasco/ livery editor) are they working on GT6,
So many people are backing up Kaz and PD saying they only had 140 or so staff working for them, then some of them go off working on GT6,
I'm sorry but thats just insane, and seems Kaz went off (with some of his team) on a tangent.

Saying a person who criticises the games faults shouldn't buy the game is a childish, basic response,
Just becasue we are criticising the game dosnt mean we are not fans, I suspect in some case many of the "whingers, moaners and nit-pickers" are much bigger fans then the "lets just accept it, Kaz wills it" brigade.

👍

 

[Griffith500]

Pretty much all these screens have been made up/doctored in some way. As a addition to what you have pointed out look at the G meter, the car we have to be swinging to the left (drivers POV) hard to have almost 2 g's like that. Also have a look at S1 time, not only is it way too high and shows the wrong sector but by coincidence it matches the best lap time exactly..

These i my opinion are just examples/design concepts, IIRC Prologue had a buch of screens that didn't make sense either by looking at the telemetry.

Yep. They're generally called concept renders, although these are of menus first - gameplay second (even though it's a gameplay menu, and is hence part of the rendered scene...). Most people call them bullshots, because the final game usually fails to approach the concept in actuality.

These might not be too far from the truth, though they may well be "old" already.

I'm still hoping for tessellated standards, based on their bump maps - it'll improve their silhouettes, so that the "polygons" will be less visible. It won't add interiors, or improve the textures.
EDIT: bugger, is that a wish?

 

[warp9engage]

Pretty much all these screens have been made up/doctored in some way. As a addition to what you have pointed out look at the G meter, the car we have to be swinging to the left (drivers POV) hard to have almost 2 g's like that. Also have a look at S1 time, not only is it way too high and shows the wrong sector but by coincidence it matches the best lap time exactly..

These i my opinion are just examples/design concepts, IIRC Prologue had a buch of screens that didn't make sense either by looking at the telemetry.

Thanks for pointing out those extra details . It's even more confusing now to understand what's going on! By the way, did you notice that the the S1 time not only matches his Best Time but also his Last Lap time?

Apparently, this driver on the NSX is so awsome, he can complete a full lap of Suzuka by only driving the first sector in one of the slowest possible times, while still holding on to 5th place! (11 really confused drivers there) In fact, he is so amazing, the game itself is actually disoriented by his awsomeness. It hasn't even realized that he already completed a lap and should be on lap "2/4" instead of "1/4". That also explains the reason why the game has absolutely no idea where he is on the track .

 

[IKizzLE]

Sorry about the wishlist....
I saw the previous poster and was so tempted to put mine up

Well, I know premium cars dont have to be sport/super/hyper cars but I wanna see cockpits of cars I will most likely never see. And there are plenty of sub 100 and 200 hp cars available that are standard but a lot of the cars I put up weren't released until after GT4 came out. So if they were gonna add these cars, they would have to be premium (hopefully)

 

[gtracedriver]

I think maybe Kaz is missing the point a bit,

I don't buy that when hes happy he releases a game, becasue apparently at the press interview he was all dissappointed about how they couldn't manage any form of cockpit view for Standard models.
When GT6 eventually arrives, there will (more than likely)be mistakes/omissions but again very few will say its PD/Kaz's fault, they'll just say we'll get it in GT7,

I dont accept the attitude that Kaz has decided to give us a game because the materials he has for eventual GT6 make up enough for GT5, he should have stuck to the road map for GT5 and then continued his quest for GT6,
Its not like GT6 is some pinnacle of gaming where its complete thats it, its done, no more GT.
Kaz will just use his favorite number 90, as in 90% to say thats how close he is to completing his vision,
Meanwhile while everyone is supposed to say, "thats Kaz!!!-(cheesy sitcom audience laughter, then credits)".

They are trying to add too many things to the game. There is also a list of tracks where SPA is being mentioned. go-karts and who knows what else. They are even trying for weather. So if they are satisfied they will include in GT5 otherwise it will be pushed to GT6. Of course it is easy to say why they are trying so much and inclusion of standard cars. Instead just make more premiums. They should have released the game last year without 3D, weather, course maker and so on .... They also thought of including some livery editor but it will not make into GT5. IMO they are doing the right thing. They are probably ok with go-karts so they are including it

 

[maxpontiac]

And now even this thread seems to go through a wishlist phase apparantly.

Why not? It's been everywhere else.

 

[lalaurentide]

Pretty much every new car release after GT4 that will be in GT5 should be premium.

 

[analog]

Why not? It's been everywhere else.

It was merely an observation.

 

[STJ88]

Cars that need to be premium

-Aston Martin DBR9 Race Car
-Aston Martin One-77
-Audi R15
-Audi S5
-Bentley Continental SuperSports Coupe
-BMW M6
-BMW Z8
-Cadillac CTS-V
-Caparo T1
-Devon GTX
-Ferrari FXX
-Ferrari F50 GT
-Gumpert Apollo
-Hennessey Venom GT
-Honda CR-Z
-Honda HSV-010 GT
-Hyundai Genesis Coupe SE
-Infiniti G37S Coupe
-Joss JT1
-Koenigsegg CCR
-Koenigsegg CCGT
-Koenigsegg CCX
-Lamborghini Diablo
-Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera
-Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 SuperVeloce
-Lamborghini Reventon
-Lexus LFA
-Maserati MC12
-Mclaren F1 LM
-Mclaren MP4-12C
-Mercedes CLK GTR
-Mosler MT900S
-Noble M600
-Radical SR9
-Rossion Q1
-Ruf RGT
-Ruf RT 12 S Coupe
-Ruf CTR3
-Saleen Mustang 435S
-Saleen S7 Twin Turbo
-Shelby GT500 Coupe
-Spyker C12 Zagato
-SSC Ultimate Aero TT
-Toyota GT-One Road Car
-TVR Cerbera Speed 12
-Weismann GT MF5

The infiniti G37 is already in GT5, it's called the skyline 370GT.

 

[JDMLOVER]

Damn, where was I when Kaz finally mentioned the whole premium vs standard dilemma. Well at least it's been said, gone, and out of the way now.

Kaz did give us a hint a while back when I elaborated on the effort and time it takes to just model one premium car, he was probably preparing people for the news of 200 cars getting a cockpit while 800 don't.

A lot of work has obviously gone into the game, and so I will be looking forward to the quality. perhaps this gives PD time to work on touch up standard cars exterior and fix many of the engine sounds.

 

[Devedander]

Actually, the picture is photoshopped. I've added some notes to it to explain my points:

I apologise that some of the text is quite difficult to read but I hope it's enough to prove the picture is photoshopped. But one thing is certain, even if the picture isn't true, I seriously think PD is doing little or nothing to improve them and I fear that they will look quite bad .

I always thought that was a mockup screen to show off menu and layout potential... ie it's a screenshot of cars with what the overlay could look like shopped in.

So I think the picture of the cars is a real screen shot, not much else is though.

 

[Tornado]

I'm curious as to what the 4:3 version of the B-Spec screen will look like, actually.