Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[minihulkster]

Forgot about racing that thing, you can tell it's made for driftig.

and drag racing

 

[analog]

Any chance of this being a premium?

Well, it's got literally a dashboard as part of the exterior ( the term dashboard originates from the horsedrawn carriage, it's the board in front of the driver/rider to prevent him being pebbledashed by horse manure ).
This car being from a period where car design was mostly directly translated from those horsedrawn carriages with an engine added.

 

[AERO_HDT]

247 pages of posts and nobody really has an answer. I would have thought this thread would have been locked or died by now. And here we are, reduced to dribble about a 200 year old horseless carriage and the functionality of dashboards as dung-shields.

Rather apt.

:|

 

[analog]

247 pages of posts and nobody really has an answer. I would have thought this thread would have been locked or died by now. And here we are, reduced to dribble about a 200 year old horseless carriage and the functionality of dashboards as dung-shields.

Rather apt.

:|

Well I can't help the fact that's where the word ( and function ) originated from.
About this thread ( which seems to have absorbed the other similar thread as well ) being still active is because this issue doesn't simply go away even when it's fully clarified ( I'm betting it will be resurrected many times even when GT5 has been released when the full scale and implications are becoming apparant, especially by new members previously unaware of this whole issue ).
If you lock this thread this whole conversation or debate/discussion ( pointless or not ) will simply move into other threads which isn't exactly a desirable option I assume.
And what's the harm of one thread discussing this issue anyway?
If you're not bothered by Standard cars you could just easily ignore it as one of the many threads.
Or is it a thorn in the side for those only interested in the "good news show"?

 

[Griffith500]

Well I can't help the fact that's where the word ( and function ) originated from.
About this thread ( which seems to have absorbed the other similar thread as well ) being still active is because this issue doesn't simply go away even when it's fully clarified ( I'm betting it will be resurrected many times even when GT5 has been released when the full scale and implications are becoming apparant, especially by new members previously unaware of this whole issue ).
If you lock this thread this whole conversation or debate/discussion ( pointless or not ) will simply move into other threads which isn't exactly a desirable option I assume.
And what's the harm of one thread discussing this issue anyway?
If you're not bothered by Standard cars you could just easily ignore it as one of the many threads.
Or is it a thorn in the side for those only interested in the "good news show"?

This. Personally, I'm expecting more "bad news". But that doesn't keep me from hoping.

 

[Strittan]

Forgot about racing that thing, you can tell it's made for driftig.

Or drag racing, with the wheels being bigger in the rear than in the front, it's the 19th century dragster.

 

[Griffith500]

Or drag racing, with the wheels being bigger in the rear than in the front, it's the 19th century dragster.

My namesake had larger rear wheels than front. As do many other cars. It's a balance / dynamics thing. Look at F1 cars, or any rear-wheel drive series racer for that matter.

http://www.netcarshow.com/tvr/1993-griffith_500/

Smaller wheels turn better whilst larger wheels roll better...

EDIT: pic worked fine when I posted it; crafty beggers...

 

[eSZee]

netcarshow doesn't allow hotlinking

 

[Strittan]

My namesake had larger rear wheels than front. As do many other cars. It's a balance / dynamics thing. Look at F1 cars, or any rear-wheel drive series racer for that matter.

I know. You didn't really think I was serious about that thing looking like a dragster, did you?

Smaller wheels turn better whilst larger wheels roll better...

Larger wheels as in wider wheels doesn't roll better, but they have more grip...

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

ah the infamous C6 vette picture.

 

[Gryzor]

247 pages of posts and nobody really has an answer. I would have thought this thread would have been locked or died by now. And here we are, reduced to dribble about a 200 year old horseless carriage and the functionality of dashboards as dung-shields.

Rather apt.

:|

Right, and your post was more constructive and informative how, exactly?

 

[Tornado]

I really CANNOT believe you all saying this and that about standards after only 1 video, insufficient proof that they are just GT4 ports.

So you do think that PD are so stupid that they would intentionally make what is certainly going to be the most divisive thing about GT5 look worse than it will in the final game. Fair enough.

You've all already said bad stuff about the Corvette C5.R because of about 3 seconds of footage of it.

That argument would have value if the video didn't show a detailed close up of the car in question. One that, with the exception of minor motion blur, is far more than enough in quality to directly compare the car to how it appeared in GT4 and prove that it is basically the same.

Maybe later on, you'll see some more videos and screenshots of standards later on, and then you can say whether they're plain old GT4 ports over, or actually improved over their GT4 predecessors, but until then, please, all of you, shut up.

 

[regnar]

Since the thread title is "Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"", I see discussions on this going beyond game release. People will find things, other than visual to talk about between these two categories.
TGS might well bring up discussions in new directions, but probably not. PD being mum on this issue says a lot.

 

[Griffith500]

I know. You didn't really think I was serious about that thing looking like a dragster, did you?


Larger wheels as in wider wheels doesn't roll better, but they have more grip...

No, but I thought I'd point out that uneven wheel sizes are common. And I meant larger as in taller which do roll better.

 

[analog]

PD being mum on this issue says a lot.

It's the black sheep, the embarassing uncle or the big white elefant in the room........

 

[Heath_1]

Compare that Motor Carriage to an SLS AMG and Mercedes-Benz have really come a long way. The SLS even has a radio and Satellite Navigation system fitted to it's dung shield.

Back on topic, I don't care if the Daimler Dung Shield Motor Carriage is Premium or Standard because in my opinion that car is useless in a car racing simulator and I'll never use it.

It does have very low profile tyres though. Just imagine rolling up to your girlfriend's place in that in the 1880's, wow! "Hey chicky babe, wanna come for a ride in my automobile? Fastest wagon in the west, does 10 km/h! I'll have you pinned to the seat. Or falling out of it one or the other. "

 

[analog]

It does have very low profile tyres though. Just imagine rolling up to your girlfriend's place in that in the 1880's, wow! "Hey chicky babe, wanna come for a ride in my automobile? Fastest wagon in the west, does 10 km/h! I'll have you pinned to the seat. Or falling out of it one or the other. "

Actually the first long distance car journey ever made was done by Bertha Benz, the wife of Karl ( apparantly without his knowledge ) in the Benz Patent Motorwagen.
This meant she had to buy petroleum at the local chemist once in a while since there were no petrol stations yet........

 

[SuperCobraJet]

And what's the harm of one thread discussing this issue anyway?

Isn't that what threads are for?

If you're not bothered by Standard cars you could just easily ignore it as one of the many threads.

Sure can.

Or is it a thorn in the side for those only interested in the "good news show"?

While no doubt thats what it is for some, for others its a legitimate concern, and for others yet its a death knell forecast full of doom and gloom.

I'm in the middle group for the time being and I doubt that will change until I can play the game and decide for myself.

I guess I have trouble believing Kaz would release the game after almost 6 yrs. with that major of a graphical display discrepancy between Standards and Premiums.
We know there will be some, but will it be pronounced enough to be a serious distraction for most players?
Unfortunately, I don't believe most of those in the "graphics are the top priority crowd" will be amoung that group.

No matter what group you happen to be in, as long as we have waited for this game, there has to be a measure of dissapointment, whether viewed as catastrophic or marginal.

 

[Strittan]

No, but I thought I'd point out that uneven wheel sizes are common. And I meant larger as in taller which do roll better.

How is that? If anything it's the other way round, since a taller wheel is less aerodynamic than a smaller with the same width.

 

[gtracedriver]

So you do think that PD are so stupid that they would intentionally make what is certainly going to be the most divisive thing about GT5 look worse than it will in the final game. Fair enough.


That argument would have value if the video didn't show a detailed close up of the car in question. One that, with the exception of minor motion blur, is far more than enough in quality to directly compare the car to how it appeared in GT4 and prove that it is basically the same.

It is impossible to say that. Except the target shot or photo mode. Generally speaking the game gfx get better and better. It depends how much time they are spending on it.

 

[Griffith500]

How is that? If anything it's the other way round, since a taller wheel is less aerodynamic than a smaller with the same width.

I wasn't talking about aerodynamics, just the mechanics of a round(ish) object rolling on a rough surface. There was a reason old carts had massive wheels, despite the extra difficulty in making them strong. Of course, the pneumatic tyre alleviated that somewhat but wheels were still fairly large by modern standards. Sophisticated suspension has brought them down to a sensible size.

Perhaps I should have said they roll smoother. My only real experience of this is with bicycles (where the effect is quite profound). A 20" bike has a hard time on the rocky stuff, but a 26"er rolls right over it. Conversely, a 24"er has less rotating mass, so is more flickable / responsive than a 26"er, but not so much as the 20" - it's a compromise. Road bikes are around 29" - the size is gaining popularity for cruisers and cross-country, too. I imagine the same applies to cars: larger wheels roll right over the bumps, smaller ones have less resistance to changes in their axis of rotation (steering) so they feel less heavy and more responsive through the steering wheel.

Now, I have no idea why Top Fuel and Funny Cars (whose tyres are covered, of course) have such massive tyres, which are even designed to expand under power...
Maybe it's a torque / thrust / grip thing - the same torque acting over a larger radius has a much lower thrust force, and is less likely to exceed the tyre's grip limit. Or something.

 

[Strittan]

I wasn't talking about aerodynamics, just the mechanics of a round(ish) object rolling on a rough surface. There was a reason old carts had massive wheels, despite the extra difficulty in making them strong. Of course, the pneumatic tyre alleviated that somewhat but wheels were still fairly large by modern standards. Sophisticated suspension has brought them down to a sensible size.

Perhaps I should have said they roll smoother. My only real experience of this is with bicycles (where the effect is quite profound). A 20" bike has a hard time on the rocky stuff, but a 26"er rolls right over it. Conversely, a 24"er has less rotating mass, so is more flickable / responsive than a 26"er, but not so much as the 20" - it's a compromise. Road bikes are around 29" - the size is gaining popularity for cruisers and cross-country, too. I imagine the same applies to cars: larger wheels roll right over the bumps, smaller ones have less resistance to changes in their axis of rotation (steering) so they feel less heavy and more responsive through the steering wheel.

Now, I have no idea why Top Fuel and Funny Cars (whose tyres are covered, of course) have such massive tyres, which are even designed to expand under power...
Maybe it's a torque / thrust / grip thing - the same torque acting over a larger radius has a much lower thrust force, and is less likely to exceed the tyre's grip limit. Or something.

Ok, now I hear ya. Yeah, taller wheels roll better in terrain, but down a smootg road they're pretty much the same, if not the smaller wheel roll a tiny bit better as I said.

Fuel dragsters and funny cars use expanding tyres to gain speed down the track, as they work as an extra gear. Expanding slicks like this are used in other classes as well, such as Top Alcohol (dragster and funny car) and Pro Stock.

 

[Spagetti69]

Wouldn't a bigger wheel travel further if the same energy/push was applied.
Due to the bigger circumfrence, or something.

I'm blagging it here I haven't a clue.

 

[Devedander]

Wouldn't a bigger wheel travel further if the same energy/push was applied.
Due to the bigger circumfrence, or something.

I'm blagging it here I haven't a clue.

One rotation goes further, but it's also harder to generate. It's roughly equivalent to gearing in how bigger or smaller wheels equate to energy transfer from engine to ground.

 

[Spagetti69]

Never thought I'd learn something on this forum.

 

[Griffith500]

Ok, now I hear ya. Yeah, taller wheels roll better in terrain, but down a smootg road they're pretty much the same, if not the smaller wheel roll a tiny bit better as I said.

Fuel dragsters and funny cars use expanding tyres to gain speed down the track, as they work as an extra gear. Expanding slicks like this are used in other classes as well, such as Top Alcohol (dragster and funny car) and Pro Stock.

Ah, that makes sense, too. I'm sure, then, for other series, the (driven) wheel size thing must be linked to gearing / thrust too, in addition to contact-patch sizes etc - or maybe it's an availability thing

 

[Nero9]

Actually, the picture is photoshopped. I've added some notes to it to explain my points:

pic

I apologise that some of the text is quite difficult to read but I hope it's enough to prove the picture is photoshopped. But one thing is certain, even if the picture isn't true, I seriously think PD is doing little or nothing to improve them and I fear that they will look quite bad .

That screenshot is so familiar...

Ah yes the GTPSP intro. Way to go PD. 👎

 

[Griffith500]

Good find! Now, is the footage from the intro from GT5, or from some earlier build (like Prologue) ?

 

[sher_da_putt]

That screenshot is so familiar...

Ah yes the GTPSP intro. Way to go PD. 👎

And so this adds to my point; GT PSP intro is using Standard car footage?

 

[Nero9]

Seems like it.
Except the beginning where you see the Citroen GT, Nissan GT-R, etc. (the Prologue cars)