Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[freshseth83]

So what? They used a picture from a previous game from another system! Is that meaning something? I don't think so. I don't think the game will be looking the same as PSP. Remember B-Spec mode in GT4? It was like watching a replay (at times). If going by B-Spec in GT4, I'd say GT5's b-spec will look good. Of course they just had a mock up with false 'information' on the car's postion and such, but why look so deep into it? All the shot was supposed to do was show you the layout of B-Spec.

 

[Griffith500]

So what? They used a picture from a previous game from another system! Is that meaning something? I don't think so. I don't think the game will be looking the same as PSP. Remember B-Spec mode in GT4? It was like watching a replay (at times). If going by B-Spec in GT4, I'd say GT5's b-spec will look good. Of course they just had a mock up with false 'information' on the car's postion and such, but why look so deep into it? All the shot was supposed to do was show you the layout of B-Spec.

Yes, some people are perhaps looking too deep into it (I'm probably guilty, somewhere). I think the main interest here is getting more footage / pictures of what the standard cars will look like in GT5, since this is an area of great malcontent at the moment.

 

[ItsHim]

I think the main interest here is getting more footage / pictures of what the standard cars will look like in GT5, since this is an area of great malcontent at the moment.

Sadly enough, I can't see words nor reason helping to calm down the anxiety.

I specifically went to the Gamescom to see if GT5 would be that good after all the business with the Standard vs Premium issue and the missing cockpits, which was a huge blow for me.

After playing it, admitting we only got to see the Premiums, my worries have disappeared.

I'm very much fond of graphics, but the driving experience has caught me this time to a point I can't really care if I have to put up with the same old generic dials once again.

If people wanted, the argument could end right here. Shame the vintage cars are probably not of equal visual quality.

But I can understand now how PD decided to draw the line here and now, and do ~200 cars to a new standard.

Sometimes you'll have to leave the past behind you to do something even bigger and better.

And sadly enough, GT4 is "lost" for me because on my new shiny 40 inch screen, it just doesn't work anymore.

In addition, Kaz once said GT5P is essentially GT4 with the processing power of a PS3. GT5 is a real PS3 title, and comparing footage of GT5P to GT5, it's a tremendous step forward.

And I haven't even started to go on about the driving experience, which is (almost) the same without a fancy interior.

I hurts a bit that this discussion is still going on with such intensity because I fear people could overlook or undervalue how much went into GT5.

I was really really shocked by the news when I first heard it. But now I would support this decision in a heartbeat.

Because it obviously was the only way PD could achieve what they wanted.

 

[Organ-Donor]

Nice words ^^^ 👍

 

[Griffith500]

Indeed! 👍

 

[GT]

Well, as a fellow-Gamescom visitor I completely agree for a few reasons.

First of all, I always race with the bumper-view so cockpits do not matter that much; however, to those who are very much fond of the cockpit-view I can understand your anger but sadly it is angry that exists because you simply haven't experienced GT5.

Trust me when I say that once the game boots up you really won't care about trivial things; you'll be too busy enjoying and marveling at the incredible physics-engine to even have time for it; you'll be hurtling down the Monza straight, feeling the weigfht of the car and the grip as you brake and try to corner.

GT5 has so much to offer in sheer enjoyment of taking a car to the track - not looking at any other aspect - that nothing can touch. I guess in two months time this will finally become clear.

200 premiums is awesome, but to me 800 standards is even better; sorry if I'm stepping on people's toes, but that's the deal.

I have seen the light at Gamescom, but there is no way to tell you have incredible the driving/racing experience was; and that's not counting different tires, day-night changes, weather, damage, pitstops, championships...and these only apply to racing. Think of GT-TV, Photomode, online, youtube sharing.

I know I appreciate all that GT5 is bringing to the table...eh, let the feast begin...?

 

[BlacqueJacques]

I prefer cockpit view, but new physics will make up for that; as well as private online lobbies for races.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

First of all, I always race with the bumper-view so cockpits do not matter that much; however, to those who are very much fond of the cockpit-view I can understand your anger but sadly it is angry that exists because you simply haven't experienced GT5.

Trust me when I say that once the game boots up you really won't care about trivial things; you'll be too busy enjoying and marveling at the incredible physics-engine to even have time for it; you'll be hurtling down the Monza straight, feeling the weigfht of the car and the grip as you brake and try to corner.

GT5 has so much to offer in sheer enjoyment of taking a car to the track - not looking at any other aspect - that nothing can touch. I guess in two months time this will finally become clear.

That's all well and good, and I really do look forward to playing because I imagine it's going to be a ton of fun. I'm starting to get excited, trying to finish off any other games I'm interested in because come November 2nd, I imagine I'll be just playing this. But writing off the lack of cockpits for 80% of the cars as "trivial" is just pushing your personal order of importance on others, not to mention it's naive to assume that simply playing it will make them fine with the absence. I don't see how people can talk about GT5 and it's immersion and simultaneously not realize how the lack of cockpit view puts a serious dent in that.

 

[weaselEST]

How do these standard cars compare to the cars in GT5P?

I switched to "bumper" cam due to the restrictions on those cars and it's not that bad I just don't like the idea of not being able to see the beauty while racing... (I understand there are other cars on the track which I can see, but still).

 

[Killinator]

How do these standard cars compare to cars in GT5P?

From what we've seen, they don't!

 

[analog]

That's all well and good, and I really do look forward to playing because I imagine it's going to be a ton of fun. I'm starting to get excited, trying to finish off any other games I'm interested in because come November 2nd, I imagine I'll be just playing this. But writing off the lack of cockpits for 80% of the cars as "trivial" is just pushing your personal order of importance on others, not to mention it's naive to assume that simply playing it will make them fine with the absence. I don't see how people can talk about GT5 and it's immersion and simultaneously not realize how the lack of cockpit view puts a serious dent in that.

This, as it only can be regarded trivial if you're not using it, just another possibility or option which can be shrugged off as not important as the rest of the game will somehow make it fine isn't making any sense if you're only using cockpit view ( or were planning to only use it ).

 

[TeamStig]

But I can understand now how PD decided to draw the line here and now, and do ~200 cars to a new standard.

Sometimes you'll have to leave the past behind you to do something even bigger and better.

And sadly enough, GT4 is "lost" for me because on my new shiny 40 inch screen, it just doesn't work anymore.

In addition, Kaz once said GT5P is essentially GT4 with the processing power of a PS3. GT5 is a real PS3 title, and comparing footage of GT5P to GT5, it's a tremendous step forward.

And I haven't even started to go on about the driving experience, which is (almost) the same without a fancy interior.

I hurts a bit that this discussion is still going on with such intensity because I fear people could overlook or undervalue how much went into GT5.

I was really really shocked by the news when I first heard it. But now I would support this decision in a heartbeat.

Because it obviously was the only way PD could achieve what they wanted.

👍 I agree completely. At first what dissapointed me wasn't so much the lack of cockpit view for standard cars, it was that those lesser detailed models would be racing alongside the almost-perfectly rendered premium cars, and the quality difference would stick out like a sore thumb in replays.

But I've come to accept it now. I'll be honest it is a little disappointing, but there was no way PD could have ever created interiors as well as building so many exteriors from scratch, even in five years. It was too tall an order.

One of my favorite arguments I've heard on this forum (and one that changed my whole opinion on this subject) is that if PD had initially unveiled 200 painstakingly detailed cars and nothing else, everyone would have groaned. If they came along later and said, "as an added bonus, we have decided to port over the cars from GT4," everyone would have been happy. It just proves it's all down to the way the news is delivered, rather than the news itself.

 

[analog]

Somehow I wonder what the reactions would have been if bumpercam was only available on Premium cars..........
Oh wait, bending the mind is an option which can be used no matter what.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

One of my favorite arguments I've heard on this forum (and one that changed my whole opinion on this subject) is that if PD had initially unveiled 200 painstakingly detailed cars and nothing else, everyone would have groaned. If they came along later and said, "as an added bonus, we have decided to port over the cars from GT4," everyone would have been happy. It just proves it's all down to the way the news is delivered, rather than the news itself.

People have some high expectations then... I wouldn't have been disappointed if GT5 shipped with less cars than GT4. GT3 did the same thing, and while it was a bit of a drag to not have as many options, I liked that at least they were all of the same quality throughout the game.

I will agree it's all about managing expectations though. They could've only ever advertised the game as having 200 cars, not even give a mention to Standards... ever... until release. Then I could see the argument that they are indeed "bonuses". Always stating 900+ cars, showing almost exclusively what would end up as Premiums, and then showing, five months before release, that Standards are literally GT4 models... well, it was a bit misleading, since we never got any utterly solid details prior to E3.

 

[TeamStig]

People have some high expectations then... I wouldn't have been disappointed if GT5 shipped with less cars than GT4. GT3 did the same thing, and while it was a bit of a drag to not have as many options, I liked that at least they were all of the same quality throughout the game.

The thing is, I think the average, less informed buyer would have viewed "just" 200 cars - not taking into account their quality, or that they have interior view, or how long they took to model - as a step backward for the franchise due to the simple fact that 200 is less than 721.

You, I and most people on GTPlanet have learned to expect the first GT on a new platform to feature less content than its predecessor.

 

[analog]

The thing is, I think the average, less informed buyer would have considered "just" 200 cars - not taking into account their quality, or that they have interior view, or how long they took to model - a step backward for the franchise due to the simple fact that 200 is less than 721.

You, I and most people on GTPlanet have learned to expect the first GT on a new platform to feature less content than its predecessor.

I agree that going from 800+ to 200 is a big step backwards in quantity but if they chose to clarify why and that those new Premium models were unlike anything seen before you could explain it as a new beginning of the franchise.
At least, regardless of marketing speak, they should've in my opinion made it clear much earlier what those Standard cars actually implied ( particularly the whole cockpit view issue ).
Until E3 the general "consensus" on this forum was that interior view was related to damage of the interior and that all cars had interiors ( in fact if you dared to suggest otherwise you were met with mockery ).
We've all known for a while there was going to be a difference between Standard and Premium cars but the full extend was only revealed very recently.
And you could reason perhaps that having a 1000 cars sounds impressive to the casual gamer, but even they will realise they aren't equal when firing up the game.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The thing is, I think the average, less informed buyer would have viewed "just" 200 cars - not taking into account their quality, or that they have interior view, or how long they took to model - as a step backward for the franchise due to the simple fact that 200 is less than 721.

You, I and most people on GTPlanet have learned to expect the first GT on a new platform to feature less content than its predecessor.

Fair point... though on the other hand, these less informed buyers (lets assume, new to the series) probably don't even know how many cars GT4 had. A sixteen year old kid would've been 10 or 11 when GT4 was released!

(EDIT) - Like Analog said, it was never entirely clear what these two tiers meant, exactly. I remember for a while it was assumed that it was related only to the amount of damage possible. I suppose that's technically still true...

 

[The_Paladin]

The thing is, I think the average, less informed buyer would have viewed "just" 200 cars - not taking into account their quality, or that they have interior view, or how long they took to model - as a step backward for the franchise due to the simple fact that 200 is less than 721.

You, I and most people on GTPlanet have learned to expect the first GT on a new platform to feature less content than its predecessor.

Theres NO reason for that, this game has a HUGE budget, they could have learn from their mistakes (or past limitations) and hire a lot more modellers or external 3D design companies to make those other 800 car models.

 

[gtracedriver]

No, I think even the standard model are accurate, they just do not have LOD like premiums and cockpit. It is a shame but I think many do not worry because they use HUD view for playing. Hopefully they are also giving attention to standard models too. PSP comparison is not great having said that the intro of PSPGT is pretty good

 

[danielwhite74]

How do these standard cars compare to the cars in GT5P?

Since they're essentially car models ported from a six-year-old Playstation 2 game, the answer to that question would be that they don't. Not that I particularly care; 200 cars of exceptional detail is more than enough. I think at this point people should learn to stop whining and come to terms with the fact that the release of Gran Turismo 5 will bring us "only" around 200 cars.

Theres NO reason for that, this game has a HUGE budget, they could have learn from their mistakes (or past limitations) and hire a lot more modellers or external 3D design companies to make those other 800 car models.

Thus causing quality to suffer. That's where Turn 10 went wrong with Forza 3, by senselessly rushing to get their 400 car models done in time for the game's release date, and to hell with quality.

 

[Nielsen]

I think at this point people should learn to stop whining and come to terms with the fact that the release of Gran Turismo 5 will bring us "only" around 200 cars.

My disappointment can only be changed if the variety between premium cars make it possible to complete the game using these only. Secondly, the standard cars must not stand out as looking too inferior when racing against them. All this is caused by high expectations but PD also gave us that with Prologue and their +1000 cars announcement which at first didn't indicate any separation between cars. It's fair that people mention their negative thoughts at this point.

And before someone says "don't buy the game then", I would just like to say that I'm sure we all are more or less ready to play a great game which has a couple of things that bother us.

 

[danielwhite74]

My disappointment can only be changed if the variety between premium cars make it possible to complete the game using these only. Secondly, the standard cars must not stand out as looking too inferior when racing against them. All this is caused by high expectations but PD also gave us that with Prologue and their +1000 cars announcement which at first didn't indicate any separation between cars. It's fair that people mention their negative thoughts at this point.

And before someone says "don't buy the game then", I would just like to say that I'm sure we all are more or less ready to play a great game which has a couple of things that bother us.

A recent screenshot revealed that Standard and Premium cars would be segregated into different garages; this can only mean you will be unable to race them against each other. They will therefore, presumably, be confined to separate game modes, in a similar manner to the GT Classic and GT Premium game modes planned for Gran Turismo HD.

 

[Griffith500]

My disappointment can only be changed if the variety between premium cars make it possible to complete the game using these only. Secondly, the standard cars must not stand out as looking too inferior when racing against them. All this is caused by high expectations but PD also gave us that with Prologue and their +1000 cars announcement which at first didn't indicate any separation between cars. It's fair that people mention their negative thoughts at this point.

And before someone says "don't buy the game then", I would just like to say that I'm sure we all are more or less ready to play a great game which has a couple of things that bother us.

I'm certain that's the way every other GT has been 👍

@danielwhite74: nice assumption. I'll wait until TGS, or beyond if I have to.

 

[Nielsen]

A recent screenshot revealed that Standard and Premium cars would be segregated into different garages; this can only mean you will be unable to race them against each other. They will therefore, presumably, be confined to separate game modes, in a similar manner to the GT Classic and GT Premium game modes planned for Gran Turismo HD.

Please tell me why that is? Maybe I need to see the actual screenshot before I can make the same conclusion. Where can I find it?

 

[TeamStig]

Theres NO reason for that, this game has a HUGE budget, they could have learn from their mistakes (or past limitations) and hire a lot more modellers or external 3D design companies to make those other 800 car models.

Yes there is. New consoles are more powerful. More powerful consoles warrant better graphics. Better graphics mean higher polygon counts and more detailed models. More detailed models take longer to create.

There are great 3D modelling firms out there, but we don't know if farming development out to them would have added to the development cost or not, rather than doing everything in-house.

Hiring more modellers definitely would have, plus they might have ended up with quality control problems as danielwhite said. That's what happened when Microsoft rushed FM3 out in two years when it deserved at least three.

EDIT: Plus, that HUGE budget hasn't just been put to use in the car models; it's evidenced in the game engine, the Course Maker, the new tracks (which take over a year to build, much longer than the cars), and everything else that we love about GT.

 

[Pantha-King]

I really hope that the two types of cars aren't completely separate as there a lots of comparisons I want to make car-wise.
Not only that, but having 830 cars in their own mode would essentially be GT4HD.

It's also got me thinking if they've made it so premium car races feature 8 cars and standard races 16. Or it might just be me

Guess all questions will be answered September 16-19.

 

[juwlzx5]

I just want to own some dude online with a standard car while hes in his premium car checking out the dashboard

 

[Tornado]

A recent screenshot revealed that Standard and Premium cars would be segregated into different garages; this can only mean you will be unable to race them against each other.

Actually, all that means is that there will be a way to filter the cars based on whether they are Standard or Premium in the garage view.

 

[shadynader]

I just want to own some dude online with a standard car while hes in his premium car checking out the dashboard

Haha 👍

 

[Strittan]

I just want to own some dude online with a standard car while hes in his premium car checking out the dashboard

I believe and hope that's not gonna be possible though, but time will tell.