Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"
- Thread starter LP670-4 SV
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shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- GTP_shirakawaa
So it looks like we'll be getting at least 250 premium cars if there are exactly 756 standards? If that's the case, VERY GOOD NEWS
Since the game will have 1000+ cars, they could even be more than 250, more like 300+ maybe. There's still room for hope and common sense (all those standard cars that could be easily upgraded to premium for example).
I don't know, but in GTPSP there were a lot of cars duplicated in the car list only for their different names for different markets.
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Ignoring the fact that I don't agree with you about those amateur modellers, there are a billion examples of amateurs doing individual things better than people at companies. In fact I'd say this is the norm rather than the exception. What companies excel at is doing large arching projects by people who coordinate together.
Those amateur models have no recourse other than to look good in a snapshot, aren't required to be of exacting specifications compared to a catalogue of other modelled cars, and aren't required to be integrated into a game engine that does all sorts of things with them that you or I can't even conceive.
For me a personal project I enjoy working on and am free to do what I want will be done faster than if I was to do it at the workplace, where certain strict standards have to be adhered to and I'm told what to do and when to do it.
GT5 is going to best driving game of all time, and it's about to come out, and I'm excited! People can nit pick about it, but ultimately it's the best that mankind has come up with so far - don't be angry with the progress of human civilization
- 4,323
Don't forget the possibility of wheel / shell painting, body / aero kits (?) and "racing mods".
The damage "model" is the same, i.e. how it affects the car's performance. The physical / graphical deformation effects are different: Standards get "dents and scratches" whilst Premiums get that and body panel dislocation, and certain Premiums may lose bumpers / doors / other panels altogether (probably race machines only). Rain effects could be a disappointment with Standards, though, from what we've seen.
There could be more yet.
Yup forgot about those points...
This and JohnMarines post brings me back to the thought that the premiums/standards naming convention is really just clever marketing as the honest description really should be "standard/subpar".
If a guy like John Marine can look at a premium and think "that must be standard" it goes to show what the expected standard is for GT5. To be less (noteably less) I think absolutely says sub par.
- 432
So if GT5's premium cars are standard, every other racing game this generation has had, or will have, sub-standard cars?
I'm sorry but i cannot subscribe to that logic.....
- 793
- UK
I think the Standard cars are comparable to car models of *****, etc. cause of they way they are modeled and are better looking in GT5's lighting engine.
Premium cars, are "next-gen" car models.
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
No what he means is that the premium cars should, this day and age be the norm.
Cockpits, pretty much are the norm nowaday's, whether you use them or not.
To say there PS4 models used on a PS3 is the logic that throws me abit, tbh.
Cockpits, pretty much are the norm nowaday's, whether you use them or not.
To say there PS4 models used on a PS3 is the logic that throws me abit, tbh.
- 6
- possum-eaterz
Oh, I hope your right!!
I am happy with the "Standard" cars as long as they have interiors! If not GT5, IMO, we be a horrible fail 
- 2,112
- xNEVER-ONEx
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
You are allowed to think whatever you want, fact is that Standard cars are last gen assets visually updated and added to a current gen game ( even Kaz admits that ).
If visually updating last gen assets means to you that they're something in between then fine.
Although it isn't an accurate description for what they really are, which might lead others to believe they might be something entirely different from the GT4 cars, a Premium/Standard hybrid which simply isn't the case.
- 2,796
- São Paulo
- Dravonic
Oh, I hope your right!!
Standard cars won't have cockpits. Confirmed by Kaz himself.
Welcome to GTP. Or should I say good bye?
Dapper
(Banned)
- 1,835
- West Virginia
- EERS4YEARS
State of the art is a better cliche to descrbe the premium cars, every other car on any console is not. Is that more logical?
- 718
- Tennessee
Oh, I hope your right!!
Read up some and discover, that, according to you, GT5 will be a horrible fail, as it has been said by Kaz, himself, that standard cars will not have interiors, not even like GTPSP. Disappointing, but true.
However, if they have made some semi-premiums of cars that they have modeled premium, then we would have some Premium/Standard hybrids. Cars like, the R34 is premium, but has many different versions, so they could use the Premium modeled exterior for the Standard cars (different versions), but just don't include the extremely detailed interior, and call them Standard, but would have the current generation modeling done to the exterior. Will it be that way, not sure, but would be very possible, and make some of the Standards look alot better.
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
You keep bringing up this possibility which, although I simply don't know whether it will happen or is even technically possible, seems to me also quite unlogical.
There already seem to be Premium and Standard version of basically the same car ( Aston DB9 for example ).
Why would they go to the trouble of combining 2 ways of modelling when they could perhaps easily change it entirely to Premium ( by which I mean ofcourse the suggested hybrid solution you mentioned ).
If the cars are indeed basically the same ( like multiple variations of Skyline, etc. ) the similar exterior appearance also applies almost always to the interior as well ( compare real life car variations and the interior differences, and you will see that the basic dashboard architecture is the same most of the time ).
Yes there might be slight detail differences, which may also be apparant on the exterior, but the basic dashboard design is almost always similar in design ( unless its a heavily face-lifted model, which will again also often extend to the exterior and requires basically partly remodelling the entire car ) and the differences might be either so small they could easily alter it and even when they didn't the differences might only be noticed by a connoisseur of that particular model and all the slight variations of interior trim ( maybe only extending to the colour pattern of the seats ).
Would they choose to just offer the exterior only and going to the trouble of somehow combining 2 unrelated ways of modelling when the only downside of having an interior is the fact it might have some inaccurate details?
Perhaps, I don't know but I'd rather have a slightly inaccurate ( but still convincing ) interior than nothing at all, and I'm a sucker for detail.
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
Honestly... are we comparing the success of a racing game on interiors? Don't just focus on whether or not cars will have interiors. If you think GT5 will be a "horrible fail" just because not every car will have Premium-type interiors, then congratulations- you judged a book only on the merits of its cover (I'm not any avid reader, but even I know never to do this). You completely neglect things like online play, a maximum of sixteen cars to a track, weather and time effects, customization options, Ferrari and Lamborghini (which has been a common complaint to most people), and things like that.
The interior deal is a concern area, but don't let it be the deal breaker. Gran Turismo games are not about certain issues that most complain about. Gran Turismo was a great game series even before the arrival of Ferrari (and countless other marques). It is premature and pathetic to just say GT5 is a bad game just because of a factor like interiors. It's like when people hated on GT4 when online play was dropped. There are MANY more things to dislike about a game than just interiors of cars. Even if none of the cars have detailed interiors (or any interior detail), is Gran Turismo 5 still going to be a bad game just because of a lack of these elements? Gran Turismo, like any other true racing game, is all about racing and driving. Details like interiors are just that- details. Maybe the Standard cars aren't as pretty as their Premium counterparts, but it doesn't mean that you still can't enjoy racing with the Standards. Some people are putting too much into this whole deal.
I've been on GTPlanet since December 5, 2003. I hear so much on things people dislike on upcoming GT games, like the wait for GT4. I still am very excited about Gran Turismo 5. Have been since GT4 was released. I haven't been as active as I used to on GT5 news, but at least I haven't wanted to boycott against Polyphony Digital over some silly crap. Some people just get easily annoyed, and I'm doing whatever I can as a fan of the series to have you think a bit more positively. I don't want people thinking Gran Turismo will become a shadow of its former self or that no one buys into GT anymore. The waits are long for GT games, but at least they come out. At least they become revered and loved by many. I don't hear anyone complaining when certain first-person shooters or RPGs get delayed or take too long, so why Gran Turismo? Long story short- it's okay not to like a game that isn't going to be released tomorrow, but there are much better reasons to dislike a game other than what most people make a future game out to be. So... chill out and relax on knocking this game for almost pointless reasons!
The interior deal is a concern area, but don't let it be the deal breaker. Gran Turismo games are not about certain issues that most complain about. Gran Turismo was a great game series even before the arrival of Ferrari (and countless other marques). It is premature and pathetic to just say GT5 is a bad game just because of a factor like interiors. It's like when people hated on GT4 when online play was dropped. There are MANY more things to dislike about a game than just interiors of cars. Even if none of the cars have detailed interiors (or any interior detail), is Gran Turismo 5 still going to be a bad game just because of a lack of these elements? Gran Turismo, like any other true racing game, is all about racing and driving. Details like interiors are just that- details. Maybe the Standard cars aren't as pretty as their Premium counterparts, but it doesn't mean that you still can't enjoy racing with the Standards. Some people are putting too much into this whole deal.
I've been on GTPlanet since December 5, 2003. I hear so much on things people dislike on upcoming GT games, like the wait for GT4. I still am very excited about Gran Turismo 5. Have been since GT4 was released. I haven't been as active as I used to on GT5 news, but at least I haven't wanted to boycott against Polyphony Digital over some silly crap. Some people just get easily annoyed, and I'm doing whatever I can as a fan of the series to have you think a bit more positively. I don't want people thinking Gran Turismo will become a shadow of its former self or that no one buys into GT anymore. The waits are long for GT games, but at least they come out. At least they become revered and loved by many. I don't hear anyone complaining when certain first-person shooters or RPGs get delayed or take too long, so why Gran Turismo? Long story short- it's okay not to like a game that isn't going to be released tomorrow, but there are much better reasons to dislike a game other than what most people make a future game out to be. So... chill out and relax on knocking this game for almost pointless reasons!
- 457
- Singapore
I think if PD like to make the same car different version, why don't they do that with European car?
Like this
Ferrari F430
Ferrari F430 Spider
Ferrari F430 Scuderia
Ferrari F430 Scuderia 16M
Ferrari F430 Challenge
Lamborghini Gallardo
Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder
Lamborghini Gallardo SE
Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4
Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera
Like this
Ferrari F430
Ferrari F430 Spider
Ferrari F430 Scuderia
Ferrari F430 Scuderia 16M
Ferrari F430 Challenge
Lamborghini Gallardo
Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder
Lamborghini Gallardo SE
Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4
Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
^ Thats good as long as that's not 11 out of the possible 200 if you know what I mean.
- 1,156
Excellent post.
What some forget is you can still use standard cars to race online, use on a track you created, drive in varying types of weather. Like i've said before when I get round to using a standard car I won't have time to stare at the graphics because I will be too focussed on my racing. Seems to me some people forget this is a video racing game with far too much emphasis on just the graphics.
- 4,323
Well the other way to look at it is that other games have damage modeling and interiors superior to the standard cars in GT5 so by that metric standard cars in GT5 aren't really up to standard are they (damage, interiors, actual body panels etc)?
Perhaps call it Premium and Sub Standard then instead of premium and standard?
But really we are talking GT here... not other games. And as I said, when someone like John Marine comes by and looks at a premium and announces "that looks like a standard" that tells you something... it tells you that in the world of GT, that is the standard. It's what we expect and not more and not less.
That's why I think the term premium is incorrect for the premium cars, they aren't premium, they are what we all thought they would be the whole time. They are the GT5 standard.
The "standards" are below what we expected... not only that they are below lots of the competition... they are sub par. To call them standard is to give them too much credit I think...
Forget other games for a minute, think of GT5 (that's what we are talking about anyway) and think are those "standard" cars what you would have expected to be the meat and potatoes of GT5 before the announcement? No I don't think so...
As for opening it up to comprasion to other games, are these cars called "industry standard"? I thought they were GT5 standards... and as I pointed out, even as an industry standard, it's questionable if they are.
But it seems like you are neglecting things like visual damage modeling, whether they will have driver views that get rain and snow interference and wiper interference while driving, add on parts etc...
It seems that I keep hearing "it's not all about graphics and if you only care about graphics you are a chump" but what about all those other non graphic points that have been brought up? Those legitimate facets of the game seem conveniently glossed over...
I am sorry but I have to patently disagree... how round the Nissan logo is is a detail, whether the grill has the right number of slats is a detail. Whether the tires have the right tread pattern is a detail...
But interiors (especially interior views) is much more than a detail. It's an aspect of gameplay that can be as experience altering as damage and weather.
I for one know that when I drive cockpit view it feels much different, more challenging and more imersed in the experience than other views. Especially when that view allows you to have things like rain hampering your view by collecting on the windshield and wipers going by.
These are no more details than tire wear and fuel consumption. They play a key roll in the experience if you ask me.
And to be fair, if looks are just a detail and trivial to the experience, it makes no sense the expense, trouble and length PD went through to create the premiums.
I am sorry but you can't go arguing graphics are only a detail in the GT world, we know GT rides as much on eye candy as it does on solid gameplay. Many like to sound above it by declaring otherwise but you know darn well when those 18mp shots of sexy new cars show up the drool starts rolling around here. Almost no one is immune to that facet of the game so let's not try and pretend it's not important when it suits your view to do so.
Long story short, even if graphics weren't important (which they are if you are honest with yourself) standards and premiums go much further than just looks.
First off, most of them aren't delayed too long and secondly...
Duke Nuken Forever.
Why don't you ask Toronado how the Sonic fans like their droughts?
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- 432
I think you would have to be a complete idiot to think that any business would use the term Sub Standard when refering to their own product....
BTW. You never answered the question but danced around it.
Anyways, you got me thinking........
The last game i bought (last week) has 12 cars and 19 tracks, I paid £40 and for the most part enjoying the game.
That's about £3.33 pence per car.
The next game I will be buying has 18 cars and 13 locations and will cost me £40, I am sure I will enjoy that too.
That's around £2.22 pence per car.
Next in line will be Gran Turismo 5, It has 1000+ cars and 70 tracks plus a track creator and will cost me £40.
That's around 4 pence per car.
One of the many reasons why I don't sit around bitching about what we don't have and appreciate what we do have.
- 4,323
Actually I missread your post which is why I ended up dancing around your question...
First off again I said standard for GT5... but yes, if GT5s premiums are the new standard it means everything else is substandard in comparison (although surprisingly close in some cases). But that's kind of what we had expected from the king of the hill isn't it? It's GT... it's supposed to be better than everything else...
And yes it would be stupid marketing to call your product sub standard. But that doens't change whether the term is accurate or not.
BTW what games are you buying with such low car counts?
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- 718
- Tennessee
I don't keep bringing it up, it is the first time I have. Another member has mentioned a few times, and the more I think about it, the more I think it is possible. I just happened to mention it here to say there is a possibility that we could get a Premium/Standard hybrid. What if the R35 Proto ended up being a Premium/Standard hybrid. I know it was modeled like a Premium, but since it doesn't have an interior, they were unable to model the interior. Would they give that one to us as Premium or Standard? Probably Premium, but since it doesn't have a cockpit view, it won't have all the features other Premiums have (working wipers and maybe not even high/low beam lights).
Since alot of the changes between variations of Skylines is engine and interior related, it would very easy to use the correctly modeled exterior for standard cars. I know you, and myself included, would rather have "generic" Skyline interior, so that all Skylines (and other models with many variations) would be able to be driven in cockpit view, but since PD is announcing that the Premiums are correct down to the last wire/bolt/stitch, they might not want it to come back and bite them, since some people will notice and point it out. Of course this is all just a thought and probably not what PD has done, but I am not saying it is impossible.
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I agree and disagree, the term standard to me means 'the norm' and that would be SHIFT, Race, Forza, Grid levels of detail. Premiums will become standard once most developers reach the same level of detail in terms of poly's and textures. I agree that once GT5 is out, that is the new standard but for me other developers have to reach the same levels before it can be called Industry standard.
F1 2010 and hopefully WRC....
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- Dublin
- tillbot8
I am absolutly shocked that one could care so much about not all cars being premium. In my eyes (and I swear this is the truth) they WILL ALL BE premium to me. I adored gt4, I didnt need a cockpit view to be crazy addicted to it, I had gtp and to be honest i used the under view far more than the cockpit, just my personal prefrence. I could understand somewhat if 'Kaz' were to only relase the 75 or so gtp cars as premiums in gt5 but you're getting at least 200! with LOTS AND LOTS of tracks! this is my most anticipated game for the ps3 and ive waited before for the big guns!
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Well the GT5 standards aren't really up to even those standards in many cases...
I heard bad things about F1
Trust me on this the WRC game of 2010 is dreadful,nothing new and no improvements its like playing Collin Mc Rae again,so WRC might be better on GT5,and in the F1 side I think that the official game will be obviously better in this segment of the game,but of course GT5 will cover all the basis on F1 even if they don't have FIA licence.
- 432
I don't know why you quoted me there because your reply has nothing to do with my post.
I have seen bad things in F1 but online with my friends is fun and has made up for the single player woes.
