Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Devedander]

But at least they are releasing the game.

This is what GT has come down to... it used to be "it will be the ultimate and blow everything else away with perfection across the board and we will finally see how it should have been done!" and now it's "at least they are actually releasing something".

 

[KilzoneStrife]

I swear that roster makes me feel like its GT5 Prologue 2. 20locations. 230 cars . GTPrologue had 70 odd cars? ... :/ ,Kaz.. You're a legend, but this list is shoddy

 

[Spagetti69]

My expectations are not low, I just don't get them mixed up with my hopes. Besides that I can see the value of the product. There are so many things I can do in this game that I cannot do on other games on my console. I have paid for a lot less in a car game and been thoroughly grateful.

Your right there. It will be the best car game on the PS3.

If one thing, I really hope people have learned to lower their expectations for GT6.
Although I highly doubt it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

No problem, but the cars that have RM next to them might already have he Race Mod how do you guys automatically say these are the ONLY cars than can only get race mod?

Look back in this thread: do you know how I know? Because the Acura dealership has 1 single car available for purchase; the '91 NSX. That car is on the list as an RM also. They are now counting RM'ed cars as separate models (which I've always said they should've done in GT1 and GT2).

I'm looking at this logically. Do I want RM's to be widely-available? Absolutely. But selective reading isn't going to make that any more likely.

 

[JDMKING13]

Look back in this thread: do you know how I know? Because the Acura dealership has 1 single car available for purchase; the '91 NSX. That car is on the list as an RM also. They are now counting RM'ed cars as separate models (which I've always said they should've done in GT1 and GT2).

I'm looking at this logically. Do I want RM's to be widely-available? Absolutely. But selective reading isn't going to make that any more likely.

No prob. 👍

 

[Luminis]

No problem, but the cars that have RM next to them might already have he Race Mod how do you guys automatically say these are the ONLY cars than can only get race mod?

1. The cars that have the RM tag are not in their respective manufacturerers dealerships, as can be seen in some Youtube videos. So there must be another way to get tem. Read: Applying race mod to another car.

2. The cars will have the RM tag for a reason, they wouldn't be listed as seperated cars if it didn't mean something.

3. There are only cars with an RM tag that are in the game without an RM tag as well.

From that, we can conculde a few thing:
A car with an RM tag is NOT a car tuned by PD, as the cars in Prologue were, as you can not purchase them, so that possibility is out the window. What possibilities that are, in fact, reasoable are left, then?

About the only option that is indeed reasonable is to assume that the cars with the RM tag will be what you get upon applying the race mod to the base car.

/edit:
SlipZtrEm beat me to it.

 

[SniperSight]

No R15 plus TDI, R15 TDI, Lola Aston Martin, Lola Judd, HPD ARX, Ginetta Zytek, Lamborghini Murcielago R-SV, Porsche 997 GT3 RSR.....etc....

Definitive driving/racing game? Not looking that way!

 

[alucard0712]

To those who already played GT5:
How the standard cars looks? (compared to premium and other racing games (Forza))

 

[shadynader]

Your right there. It will be the best car game on the PS3.

If one thing, I really hope people have learned to lower their expectations for GT6.
Although I highly doubt it.

Actually I still think it will be the best car game any console thus far.

 

[gtracedriver]

No R15 plus TDI, R15 TDI, Lola Aston Martin, Lola Judd, HPD ARX, Ginetta Zytek, Lamborghini Murcielago R-SV, Porsche 997 GT3 RSR.....etc....

Definitive driving/racing game? Not looking that way!

Definite racing game is Forza

GT is real driving simulator. Don't get confused

 

[GranTurismoer]

It would be very cheeky of PD to count RM models to the 1000+ car list if they were indeed race modified versions of cars already present on said list. Twenty cars with the ability for race modification doesn't cut the mustard, not even a little bit.

Edit: Just read SlipZtrEm's comments and I must say that I'm very disappointed, this was the one thing that I listed in the "what would you find disappointing?" thread and it seems to have come true, these elements (Car modifications, and number of premiums) need to be addressed in GT6. However with car modelling taking so long it's hard to imagine GT6 with anything over 500-600 cars, they would need to expand their team to satisfy the fans truly.

 

[JM1681]

Actually I still think it will be the best car game any console thus far.

And you might well be right.

It doesn't change the fact that this game is flawed.

 

[shadynader]

And you might well be right.

It doesn't change the fact that this game is flawed.

All games are flawed my friend, the quicker you realize this, the better.

The smart racers own all racing games.

 

[Luminis]

It doesn't change the fact that this game is flawed.

Well, what's irking me is that it could've been better if some different decision were made.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It would be very cheeky of PD to count RM models to the 1000+ car list if they were indeed race modified versions of cars already present on said list. Twenty cars with the ability for race modification doesn't cut the mustard, not even a little bit.

On the contrary, I've always thought the RM models should be counted as separate, even back in GT1 and GT2. They are different polygon models, with a full smattering of aero addenda. They are very, very different from their stock counterparts. A lot more different than a '95 R33 GT-R and a '96 R33 GT-R, at any rate.

 

[Devedander]

Well, what's irking me is that it could've been better if some different decision were made.

Exactly.

There is flawed as in "Not possible or reasonable to do better"

And then there is flawed as in "Poor choice lead to it being this way"

GT5's flaws seem to fit heavily into the latter category.

 

[Dan360]

From the Top Gear magazine, on it's GT5 special:

...
The cars in the original Gran Turismo game, released 12 years ago, consisted of around 300 polygons (the basic shapes stuck together to form virtual cars). The cars in 2004's Gran Turismo 4? Around 4,000 polygons. The cars in GT5? Over half a million polygons each.
"In the first Gran Turismo, a designer took a day to model a car," Kazunori says. "In GT4, the same worker spent a month modelling the same car. In GT5, they require six months to do the same job."
That'll be five hundred man-years to create the GT5 fleet, then. The initial 'capture' of a car - taking thousands of photographs and measurements and jamming microphones into its most intimate crannies to record its engine note - is only the first part in the process of comitting a car to the game.
...

Of course, PD employs more than one designer. Although it shows how long it takes to design a premium car.

 

[CaptainSlow]

I haven't read all 400 or so pages so can someone give me the Coles notes about this PRemium vs Standard business?

1. Are there different camera views available between the two cars? Is there still a bumper and hood camera with both versions?

2. Are you able to upgrade standard cars (i.e. intercoolers, turbos, brakes, etc.) on standard cars? I enjoyed this the most on GT games.

3. Do the standard cars look that much worse (putting aside the cockpit camera)?

I see most people complaining about the fact there are more than one S2000 and Skyline, etc. but that's how it's been in most GT games.

I'm surprised that they didn't include a regular version of the Lambo Gallardo and an Audi RS4. It seems there are more older cars than newer cars which begs the questions...

Are there plans to make DLC packs for GT5? I don't remember reading anything about adding new cars after the fact but if there are I would be willing to pay or get PSN+ or whatever.

 

[shadynader]

Exactly.

There is flawed as in "Not possible or reasonable to do better"

And then there is flawed as in "Poor choice lead to it being this way"

GT5's flaws seem to fit heavily into the latter category.

Well until you get to make these decisions yourself or find someone who has made the decisions that match with your own opinions of what a car game should be, then you are screwed my friend.

 

[Devedander]

Well until you get to make these decisions yourself or find someone who has made the decisions that match with your own opinions of what a car game should be, then you are screwed my friend.

Yes... yes in this case I am ver much screwed...

However it doesn't stop me from looking around and seeing much better decision making in the idustry as a norm...

 

[Luminis]

1. Are there different camera views available between the two cars? Is there still a bumper and hood camera with both versions?

Bumper cam is in for both. There is no hood view, only the roof view. In for both as well.

2. Are you able to upgrade standard cars (i.e. intercoolers, turbos, brakes, etc.) on standard cars? I enjoyed this the most on GT games.

Probably, yes. Don't expect a lot of visual stuff to be available for the standards.

3. Do the standard cars look that much worse (putting aside the cockpit camera)?

They can't hold a candle to the premmiums. They're basicaally GT4 cars with better reflections in HD.

Are there plans to make DLC packs for GT5? I don't remember reading anything about adding new cars after the fact but if there are I would be willing to pay or get PSN+ or whatever.

According to Kaz, there won't be DLC. I doubt that's true, though.

 

[JM1681]

All games are flawed my friend...

Agree 100%

However, with a hype machine like the one that surrounds GT5, little flaws (Of which 800 gimped cars is NOT a "little" flaw) stand out in a very big way.

 

[Slurm]

This is what happens when you decide to model things to a LoD way beyond what is necessary and even useable in the game. How many hours of the diligent work on premium cars is ONLY necessary for ridiculous photo-mode scrutiny? I would guess that possibly up to half of it!

Once again, a GT title that boasts features which turn out to be more like limited showcases of what is now possible (but not humanly achievable for 80-90% of the product). In the future though it will be like this. Except.... when PD get their hands on the next gen hardware, they'll once again use it to raise the bar to unworkable levels, and again, features like rain and customisation (flaunted in PR so tantalisingly) will only appear in a small portion of the game, because of the astonishing new detail! In fact we are now going BACKWARDS in this area, with the dizzying new heights of detail banishing basic, decade-old features to the "regrettably not possible this time" pile.

 

[Devedander]

This is what happens when you decide to model things to a LoD way beyond what is necessary and even useable in the game. How many hours of the diligent work on premium cars is ONLY necessary for ridiculous photo-mode scrutiny?

Exactly... I mean in game the LoD filtering kicks in so fast that it seems pretty pointless to go to such lengths... Is GT5 going to be "The Real Car Photography Simulator"?

 

[VXR]

Exactly... I mean in game the LoD filtering kicks in so fast that it seems pretty pointless to go to such lengths... Is GT5 going to be "The Real Car Photography Simulator"?

Even in that regard it's compromised, because some of the more scenic tracks have been cut.

 

[shadynader]

Yes... yes in this case I am ver much screwed...

However it doesn't stop me from looking around and seeing much better decision making in the idustry as a norm...

Very true, I do too, I also see alot of bad gaming decisions made by other companies too but I don't moan about them either.

 

[eric1971]

I'll reserve my final opinion until I have played the game, but GT 5 is looking like the riced out Civic of video games. All "style" and little substance.

 

[analog]

Well, what's irking me is that it could've been better if some different decision were made.

Indeed, I've come to the conclusion they should've followed the same strategy they took when they released GT3 ( less cars but the same quality ), the first GT-game on a new console, for the sake of consistency and coherency.
Before anyone says "that would mean just because people like you don't like Standard cars you would deny everyone else of having 800 Standard cars" to which I reply, exactly that's what I would prefer before they announced GT5 would include a 1000 cars after which there was no going back.
Those who like the Standard cars have exactly what they wanted anyway so me saying I'd rather they ditched them alltogether won't make a difference anyway.
It's indeed a choice or decision taken, not hardware limitations, a low budget or lack of skill ( hence the rest of the game ), etc. which makes it fair to criticize in my opinion.

You know what makes this so poignant ( relatively speaking ofcourse ) and almost impossible to ignore is the fact that although I can choose to only drive Premium cars ( remember these are the only cars created for GT5 and future GT-games ) there will always be the reminder of cars 'missing' or unfinished at least in the form of Standard cars.
They are the automotive "undead", the zombies or ghost of games from the past in my opinion.
The only purpose they have for me is to remind me what I thought the game would offer only a year ago or less ( absolutely my fault for expecting too much after 5 years and the high esteem based on previous games I gave PD, mea culpa )......"what if" scenario indeed.

 

[JM1681]

...You know what makes this so poignant ( relatively speaking ofcourse ) and almost impossible to ignore is the fact that although I can choose to only drive Premium cars ( remember these are the only cars created for GT5 and future GT-games ) there will always be the reminder of cars 'missing' or unfinished at least in the form of Standard cars.
They are the automotive "undead", the zombies or ghost of games from the past in my opinion.

QFT 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think I realized why Standards bother me: they are a reminder of GT4, and while in an of itself, I can understand why people appreciate their inclusion, I share Analog's point of view about them. I never expected a game, car-roster-wise, much bigger than GT3.

But, what really grates on me, and creates a giant question mark over my head, is, if all the Standards were indeed deemed "good enough" to be brought into GT5... why the heck are we losing out on all the GT4 tracks?! There are a ton that have been cut, which I just can't understand.

Oh, also: I have 3 versions of the car list now saved on my PC. The total, 1000+ count, the Premium-only list (222), and the RM-list (17). There are a few oddities that I imagine are mess-ups (the '07 Vitz labeled as Standard while the '00 is Premium, the F40, the wrong mkIII Supra, the afore-mentioned XFR), but that's the gist of it.