Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Strittan]

EDIT: Sorry for DP!

 

[minihulkster]

I think its safe to say.. Theres two divisions in GT5. The premiums and the mutants. Mutants that have premium and standard features. Mutants that are more standard than other standards. Mutants that are standard-der than normal etc. What it boils down to is, Premium, with cockpit view, extensive deformable exterior/interior, capable at doing everything GT5 wants the premiums to do. Then, we have the mutant standard cars that have many things but none match the premiums.

I will look at it this way; there are premium, standard-premium, and standard-standard cars. Do we yet know if they will be drivable together? If you look at the list there are standard and premium versions of some cars, which would seem to indicate that they will not be drivable together.

 

[shirakawaa]

I will look at it this way; there are premium, standard-premium, and standard-standard cars. Do we yet know if they will be drivable together? If you look at the list there are standard and premium versions of some cars, which would seem to indicate that they will not be drivable together.

From leaked videos released by Czech users, we know that they are able to be driven together on the same race.

 

[JDMKING13]

I will look at it this way; there are premium, standard-premium, and standard-standard cars. Do we yet know if they will be drivable together? If you look at the list there are standard and premium versions of some cars, which would seem to indicate that they will not be drivable together.

There is videos showing premiums and standards driving together.

 

[Strittan]

I will look at it this way; there are premium, standard-premium, and standard-standard cars. Do we yet know if they will be drivable together? If you look at the list there are standard and premium versions of some cars, which would seem to indicate that they will not be drivable together.

WTH are you guys on about? There are Premiums and there are Standards, that's it.

 

[minihulkster]

From leaked videos released by Czech users, we know that they are able to be driven together on the same race.

That makes me a happy panda.

WTH are you guys on about? There are Premiums and there are Standards, that's it.

We will see in 10 days. I hope they will be in the same ballpark.

 

[OHM_fusion]

I really hope that's a typo on that Impreza being standard. It's definitely premium on the outside. It wouldn't make sense to model a premium car and then scrap it and reuse a standard model from gt4.

 

[minihulkster]

I really hope that's a typo on that Impreza being standard. It's definitely premium on the outside. It wouldn't make sense to model a premium car and then scrap it and reuse a standard model from gt4.

Maybe it will be a standard-premium(no cockpit with a detailed exterior due to modeling for PS3) like I said.

 

[shirakawaa]

Maybe it will be a standard-premium(no cockpit with a detailed exterior due to modeling for PS3) like I said.

Or using GT terminology, Semi-Premium ? 💡

 

[minihulkster]

Or using GT terminology, Semi-Premium ? 💡

Yeah, remember Kaz refered to one of the premium cars as sort of standard. I forget which car it was, but apparently the divide is not so black and white.

 

[Strittan]

Maybe it will be a standard-premium(no cockpit with a detailed exterior due to modeling for PS3) like I said.

There is no such thing as a standard-premium car. The cars listed as P/S are included both as a Premium and as a Standard. They're cars that were in GT4, and then they have been modeled as Premium as well. The '69 Camaro Z28 is a good example of this. It was in GT4, it has been seen in GT5 screens as a Premium and it is listed on the official list as P/S. Still not clear enough?

 

[minihulkster]

There is no such thing as a standard-premium car. The cars listed as P/S are included both as a Premium and as a Standard. They're cars that were in GT4, and then have been modeled as Premium as well. The '69 Camaro Z28 is a good example of this. It was in GT4, it has been seen in GT5 screens as a Premium and it is listed on the official list as P/S. Still not clear enough?

Here is how we came up with the semi-premium theory. The '99 Impreza Rally Car was in GT-HD. It did not have a cockpit, but has the same level of external detail as a premium car. This car is also listed as a standard model for GT5. It is not likely that all GT4 cars were remodeled to this same level of external detail because it would have taken a few more years. Therefore, we believe there is a possibility that there may be different levels of quality between the standard cars. Also, why is there a need to have a standard and premium version of the same car if premiums and standards can share a race together?

 

[Devedander]

There is no such thing as a standard-premium car. The cars listed as P/S are included both as a Premium and as a Standard. They're cars that were in GT4, and then they have been modeled as Premium as well. The '69 Camaro Z28 is a good example of this. It was in GT4, it has been seen in GT5 screens as a Premium and it is listed on the official list as P/S. Still not clear enough?

I think you might want to catch up on the last few pages so you know what they are talking about.

 

[analog]

Also, why is there a need to have a standard and premium version of the same car if premiums and standards can share a race together?

That's the million dollar question indeed, nobody apart from PD sees the logic of this, maybe the Standard versions (being second hand) are cheaper to start with perhaps for those who don't care about cockpit view?

 

[Spagetti69]

Perhaps I can pick up a veyron cheaper than a capuchino then.
The mind boggles.

 

[Devedander]

Perhaps I can pick up a veyron cheaper than a capuchino then.
The mind boggles.

I would love to see some kind of documentary on the building of GT5 over the last half decade with explanations of why certain decisions were made... becuase as you put it, when it comes to a lot of the choices we are seeing... the mind boggles...

 

[minihulkster]

I would love to see some kind of documentary on the building of GT5 over the last half decade with explanations of why certain decisions were made... becuase as you put it, when it comes to a lot of the choices we are seeing... the mind boggles...

With GT5, the more that is revealed, the deeper the mysteries become. I would love to watch some detailed developer documentaries on GT-TV.

 

[Beat the Beat]

That's the million dollar question indeed, nobody apart from PD sees the logic of this, maybe the Standard versions (being second hand) are cheaper to start with perhaps for those who don't care about cockpit view?

I think it's kind of a way of justifying the difference. So buying a used car you know what you're going to get, transferring a PSP car you know what you're going to get.* It's very weird but the whole 2 tier roster was weird to start with.
I even considered they might do something like this months ago, so my mind isn't completely blown by it.

*assuming that's how it works.

Perhaps I can pick up a veyron cheaper than a capuchino then.
The mind boggles.

I don't know about that, but remember you need to level up quite high before you can buy sportier cars both new and used.

 

[Strittan]

I think you might want to catch up on the last few pages so you know what they are talking about.

I know what they're talking about alright, but it makes no sense whatsoever, and the '99 Impreza is the only car they rely their theory on, which I think look at least 99% Premium. Yes, the cars in GTHD didn't have cockpit views but that was an early demo, and it's been almost four years since.

Do you really think PD would make the entire exterior of that Impreza and then go; "Know what? I think I'm gonna leave this car without the interior..."?

 

[analog]

Do you really think PD would make the entire exterior of that Impreza and then go; "Know what? I think I'm gonna leave this car without the interior..."?

Less than a year ago I would say, don't be stupid, ofcourse they wouldn't.
Right now I'm prepared for anything.....

 

[SlipZtrEm]

You simply need not buy the game at all your problem is solved. No one asked anyone to wait for years for this game, they did what they did and are not forcing anyone. There are many racing games released every year every few months in fact. Everyone can make a decision. This thread is going on for more than 100 days. Instead they should just make one ultimate moaning and bitching thread 💡

I imagine this thread will definitely see traffic even after the game's release? Why? Because people who pick it up who don't know about the differences between Standard and Premium are going to find out in a much different way than we did. It will still be useful. You still believe anything negative is trolling?

I agree...at least to the extent that 95% of what I see here are complaints about "window dressing", things that have little to no effect on the physics of the game.

Then again they can't very well complain about the physics, not having played the game yet. A few weeks after release, I wonder if the complaints will shift to the unrealistic physics of GT5, or just be attached to louder whinges about how poor it looks?

A cockpit view doesn't affect the physics, sure, but it adds to the experience of driving and owning a car, I'd say. If the physics really are the absolute single aspect of the game we should be caring about, why not just give us GT1 car models? A game needs a balance of all features... Standards don't offer what Premiums offer (obviously), but they don't even offer what many other "competitors" do. Which is the issue I believe most of us "whiners" have. Of course, we all know it can't be changed now... doesn't make it any less disappointing.

I wish people would stop jerking off to the Veyron. It is an impressive car but not a big loss that it isn't premium. The only reason why anyone even knows it exists is because of Top Gear, otherwise none of you would care. That is hardly a good reason to give it the premium car treatment. It wasn't even that popular of a car in Forza 3.

I'm not even a Veyron fan, but I can understand the upset of it being a Standard. It is an historically important car, a technological feat that flips the bird to the laws of physics. I definitely would've preferred it Premiumized over the two People's (war) cars. Though I imagine a lot of of its fans are younger...

They are there because they were in past GT games. We've already been through that. And none of the cars are "padded" for premuimm. You can only make a case for only a very small amount, but thats it. And think about Forza 3. That game has plenty more "padded" premiums as you would put it.

Show me the padding.
I see some padding when it comes to race cars, absolutely. Much like the SuperGT cars in GT, actually (or the ultimate, the NASCARS). Road cars... nope, not a lot of padding (besides the questionable livery "special editions", which I agree are superfluous).

That isnt "quite a few". Youre being delusional. And the standards there to give the game more depth and content. Which many people (unlike you) appreciate. There is nothing "second rate" about this game. The standard cars arent crap, stop acting like they are.

Go look at the Miatas. Or the Opel/Vauxhall duplicates. Or the Clio/Lutecia clones. Do you need more examples?

What do you mean by "RM"? Besides, most of the cars you named are different from each other. Please understand that the same name does not mean the same car. Saying "4 camries" and "2 swifts" doesnt tell the story of how different they are from one another.

Now I swear you really are just a troll. The Camries are indeed the same. All NASCAR's are the same. There might be tiny, tiny setup adjustments between drivers (and things like seat placement), but that's like saying an NSX-R in Prologue is two different cars if you bump the front ride-height down by 5mm.

It seems that GT5 is not the only game with different car models..

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43975&page=39

You... you can't be serious, can you?

Different LoD models is not the complaint here. You don't actually think a GT5 Premium always sits at 500k polys at all times in a race, do you?

 

[minihulkster]

I know what they're talking about alright, but it makes no sense whatsoever, and the '99 Impreza is the only car they rely their theory on, which I think look at least 99% Premium. Yes, the cars in GTHD didn't have cockpit views but that was an early demo, and it's been almost four years since.

Do you really think PD would make the entire exterior of that Impreza and then go; "Know what? I think I'm gonna leave this car without the interior..."?

Yes, this has been done with 80% of the roster. It would have required the Impreza to have to be remodeled from scratch. Early on in development they realized it would not be time efficient to model every car to premium spec. I did the math on these forums a couple months ago and calculated that is would take about 8-9 years to model 800 cars. There may be some other cars may have been modeled to a high "standard" degree, while other may be straight from gt4.

 

[shirakawaa]

There are not 800 completely different standard cars.
Many of those (about half of them) are very similar versions of "base" cars which wouldn't take much additional time to convert.
So you can cut the 8-9 years figure in half in my opinion, which coincidentally turns out to be about the GT5 development time.

 

[JDMKING13]

There are not 800 completely different standard cars.
Many of those (about half of them) are very similar versions of "base" cars which wouldn't take much additional time to convert.
So you can cut the 8-9 years figure in half in my opinion, which coincidentally turns out to be about the GT5 development time.

I will get stoned fot this, but on the web site its states

The massive lineup of cars from past Gran Turismo games has been beautifully recreated through the latest technology and the Playstation 3’s cutting-edge graphics.

Gran Turismo 5 feature an astounding 800+ cars, a vast collection covering a wide range of eras and categories.

Why is the standard car list such a huge shock? Some car made me go hmm why that, but oh well what can you do, I knew the standards where basically going to look like this from the web site.

 

[VXR]

The biggest critics appear obsessed with car and track numbers and don't value features which actually improve realism.

And how does PD's inclusion of such low-res models help improve realism?

 

[Tornado]

Because although in GTHD, it didn't have a cockpit view, ever. It's standard. So says the website. Just shows once again how good standards actually look.

Except the typical Standard car will look absolutely nothing like that.

There may be some other cars may have been modeled to a high "standard" degree, while other may be straight from gt4.

I dunno. The only exception I can think of would be the GT-R '05 Proto because it wasn't originally modeled with an interior.

 

[korean]

how do the standard cars stack up against forza 3/

 

[Tornado]

The biggest critics appear obsessed with car and track numbers and don't value features which actually improve realism.

Look:

Realism!

how do the standard cars stack up against forza 3/

It depends on the car. The Standard cars look better than some of the Forza 3 cars just because some of the Forza 3 models are (very) poorly rendered. But overall, there isn't really much of a contest, and the accuracy of the Standard cars aren't flawless across the board either.

 

[Forgetful]

There are not 800 completely different standard cars.
Many of those (about half of them) are very similar versions of "base" cars which wouldn't take much additional time to convert.
So you can cut the 8-9 years figure in half in my opinion, which coincidentally turns out to be about the GT5 development time.

I would peg the duplicates at about 15%, not half.

 

[Cyberbloke]

I get that modelling all those cars to a high standard would be very time consuming, but surely all the car manufacturers would have highly detailed CAD models of all their modern cars' components that they could have made available to PD.