Where do you draw the line for "self defense"?

Gil · Oct 15, 2005

Relative to the number of people that are armed in the U.S, there are very few "accidental" shootings of children, spouses. One of the primary rules of shooting, taught to me as a small child, was "Don't shoot where you can't see" followed closely by "Your finger shouldn't even be in the trigger guard until you have your target postively identified."

As for gun-totin' parents.
I wasn't trained to do this but when my old man was out of town, my mom slept with a Rossi .38 under her pillow. I knew that if I wanted to roam the house I needed to get her attention first. If I left my room after she was asleep, I called out till she answered me.

Also, if you start from an early age with firearms safety, the kids won't mess with the guns.
If it isn't a "taboo", or a mystery, the interest is not so much there.

At least that's the way it worked with me. My old man started me out on Playco Dart guns (the darts with the sticky rubber suction cups on the fronts) when I was about six, and a shooting gallery of flip-down ducks.
He took me shooting with an old .22 cal rifle starting when I was about 9. And my friends and I played with all manner of toy guns. Since I had my toy guns, I wasn't really too interested in my dad's real guns. Even after I became a teen-ager. around.

My kids have no real interest in guns, as we've not ever had any in the house. Though my 19-year-old, is a fair archer. :lol:

ledhed · Oct 15, 2005

Its odd I can be around my family and friends for years without having a conversation about guns..except for my son who is getting fairly avid with target shooting . In my family we all own multiple firearms and my friends are pretty much the same along with their familys ...but the subject never comes up unless a dumb ass law gets proposed or passed .
Its odd to see the subject brought up so often on forums .

Young_Warrior · Oct 15, 2005

I think you guys are all assuming that a person who breaks into your house will just stand still for you to shoot him. And now that I know that quite a few of you americans have guns more than I thought If i was in amaerica and wanted to rob a place Id sure Have my gun take out the people inside it first and then take what I want. But I have a heart so it wouldnt be a bullet through the head but a crack needle with a potion that will knock you out for a couple of hours.

Look trust me usually 90% of the time the criminal will get the better of the victim.

Just let him have your stuff and try and get te hell out. Either way one of you willl end up dead and chances are it wont be the criminal.

Famine · Oct 15, 2005

Young_Warrior
I have a heart so it wouldnt be a bullet through the head but a crack needle with a potion that will knock you out for a couple of hours.

That before or after you:

Young_Warrior
lunge ant him and give him a dirty beating and maybe rape him before letting him go to humiliate him.

Young_Warrior · Oct 15, 2005

Famine
That before or after you:

The 1st qoute is if I was the criminal.

The 2nd if I was the victim.

Famine · Oct 15, 2005

Well, it's good to know that someone who'd rape someone has a heart.

Young_Warrior · Oct 15, 2005

Id rape the criminal for breaking into my house who btw will 99% of a chance be a male.

ExigeEvan · Oct 15, 2005

Young_Warrior
Id rape the criminal for breaking into my house who btw will 99% of a chance be a male.

Why? So you'd do something you'd (I asume) hate just to spite the guy?

Young_Warrior · Oct 15, 2005

hell yeah he sure wont try breaking into my house again. He disrespected me for tryin to rob me i disrespect him.

daan · Oct 15, 2005

Young_Warrior
hell yeah he sure wont try breaking into my house again. He disrespected me for tryin to rob me i disrespect him.

And you'll end up on a rape charge. It'll be reported all through the papers that you raped a man. That'll make you look great! 👍

Blake · Oct 15, 2005

I cant believe what Im reading! Thats hilarious!

Blake

Young_Warrior · Oct 15, 2005

daan
And you'll end up on a rape charge. It'll be reported all through the papers that you raped a man. That'll make you look great! 👍

LOL he wont say nothing as I know the type of person that would try rob me would have some kind of connection to me as I live in the area were criminals live and so im less likely to get robbed than people who live in nicer areas but if i was to get robbed it would be someone from my area which I would know. No criminal would make it public that he got raped
especially after I let him o and not call the police on his ass.

Anyway just incase you guys arent up withc london humour and what to and not to take serious well dont take this serious. Like id rape a man. :yuck:

But if for a reason I didnt want to call the police id make good use of a broomstick.

daan · Oct 15, 2005

Young_Warrior
Anyway just incase you guys arent up withc london humour and what to and not to take serious well dont take this serious. Like id rape a man.

I don't know. You do seem to have some gay tendancies....

The following was in direct reply to James2097 posting his picture.

Young_Warrior
Id sleep with you.

ledhed · Oct 15, 2005

Young_Warrior
I think you guys are all assuming that a person who breaks into your house will just stand still for you to shoot him. And now that I know that quite a few of you americans have guns more than I thought If i was in amaerica and wanted to rob a place Id sure Have my gun take out the people inside it first and then take what I want. But I have a heart so it wouldnt be a bullet through the head but a crack needle with a potion that will knock you out for a couple of hours.

Look trust me usually 90% of the time the criminal will get the better of the victim.

Just let him have your stuff and try and get te hell out. Either way one of you willl end up dead and chances are it wont be the criminal.

You really should go find a clue . First you are ignoring all the dead criminals and hospitalised crack head criminals who were shot invading or robbing a home .
You are acting like life is a video game , if criminals had the smarts not to get shot maybe they would get a real job dont you think ? 100 % of the time a criminal attempt was made on me the criminal lost , you pull numbers out of your rear end like they mean something ..90 % of the time a criminal will be shot if discovered by a home owner who owns a weapon the other 10 percent of the time he will raise his hands or beg for mercy and be captured or run away . So come on over to America and try your luck it wont take long before your "crack needle " gets shoved . Solid snake the crack needle potion jabber , meets smith and wesson .

Gonna make you squeal like a pig ! :dopey:

Grand Prix · Oct 15, 2005

Like....Wow.

God damn those anti-gun Liberals/Communists eh? And they can't voice their opinions in this thread because some guy (a very insecure guy) didn't want them to. Let's laugh at the Liberals! Damn hypocrites, don't they realize that gun owners are the most peaceful people in the world? That's right, even hippies, who "love peace", are evil! In fact, guns are good! It's also best to introduce children to guns at an early age so they won't be afraid of them and turn into anti-gun Liberals!

FastEddie12 · Oct 15, 2005

Ghost C · Oct 15, 2005

Grand Prix
Like....Wow.

God damn those anti-gun Liberals/Communists eh? And they can't voice their opinions in this thread because some guy (a very insecure guy) didn't want them to. Let's laugh at the Liberals! Damn hypocrites, don't they realize that gun owners are the most peaceful people in the world? That's right, even hippies, who "love peace", are evil! In fact, guns are good! It's also best to introduce children to guns at an early age so they won't be afraid of them and turn into anti-gun Liberals!

That "some guy" doesn't see the point in beating the dead horse by making another gun control/anti-gun/pro-gun debate thread. There have been no less than 3 discussions about guns in the past - All you needed to do was search. But apparently, that was too difficult for you - I posted links to the two firearms debate threads on this forum, and you're still incapable of reading and posting in them.

As for the rest of your post, it's not even worth replying to. Pure garbage. If you'd like to actually post a worthwhile argument, I'll be happy to respond - In one of the two threads I posted a link to.

smellysocks12 · Oct 15, 2005

daan
And you'll end up on a rape charge. It'll be reported all through the papers that you raped a man. That'll make you look great! 👍

It'll make him look even better when his fellow inmates find out about it.

Don't drop the soap.

Solid Lifters · Oct 15, 2005

smellysocks12
It'll make him look even better when his fellow inmates find out about it.

Don't drop the soap.

I think you missed the point that Young Warrior is the kind of fellow that will drop the soap, and will drop it often. Even when he isn't in the shower!

Grand Prix · Oct 15, 2005

Ghost C
That "some guy" doesn't see the point in beating the dead horse by making another gun control/anti-gun/pro-gun debate thread. There have been no less than 3 discussions about guns in the past - All you needed to do was search. But apparently, that was too difficult for you - I posted links to the two firearms debate threads on this forum, and you're still incapable of reading and posting in them.

As for the rest of your post, it's not even worth replying to. Pure garbage. If you'd like to actually post a worthwhile argument, I'll be happy to respond - In one of the two threads I posted a link to.

Of course it's garbage. It's supposed to be. You actually thought I BELIEVED that crap? :nervous:

Oh well. But the two topics you linked to are different from this one. This one is supposed to be about what is considered self defense and what isn't. But it got carried off topic a bit. I can lock it if you like.

Danny · Oct 15, 2005

Solid Lifters
I think you missed the point that Young Warrior is the kind of fellow that will drop the soap, and will drop it often. Even when he isn't in the shower!

That has no point in this thread. Keep on topic please.

And please don't make a thread on Y_W's possible homosexuality.

Young_Warrior · Oct 16, 2005

ledhed
You really should go find a clue . First you are ignoring all the dead criminals and hospitalised crack head criminals who were shot invading or robbing a home .
You are acting like life is a video game , if criminals had the smarts not to get shot maybe they would get a real job dont you think ? 100 % of the time a criminal attempt was made on me the criminal lost , you pull numbers out of your rear end like they mean something ..90 % of the time a criminal will be shot if discovered by a home owner who owns a weapon the other 10 percent of the time he will raise his hands or beg for mercy and be captured or run away . So come on over to America and try your luck it wont take long before your "crack needle " gets shoved . Solid snake the crack needle potion jabber , meets smith and wesson .

Gonna make you squeal like a pig !

i think your the one acting like life is a videogame. You been watching too much americas dumbest criminals. Not all criminals are dumb. they are clever enough not to wake you and clever enough to take necessary precautions.

You go on as if criminals are the dumbest people that walk the earth. There are plenty of rich criminals. Just look at george bush. Ok that was a cheap shot but lets thing about it. The western world are rich of the crimes they commited.

DuckRacer · Oct 16, 2005

Criminals aren't the dumbest people who walk the earth, but they're not the brightest, either. Of course there are smart criminals, but the desperate type are by far the most common.

Y_W
You go on as if criminals are the dumbest people that walk the earth. There are plenty of rich criminals. Just look at george bush. Ok that was a cheap shot but lets thing about it. The western world are rich of the crimes they commited.

Explain, please.

smellysocks12 · Oct 16, 2005

Smart criminals don't get caught.... and since you're officially not a criminal until you've been convicted of a crime... there officially aren't any smart criminals.

James2097 · Oct 16, 2005

What can I say? :lol:

I'm gonna have my back to the wall if I go to London... regardless of whether I break into Young_Warrior's place.

DeLoreanBrown · Oct 16, 2005

Lissen, this thread was intended to stir on self-defense . There is obviously no line to be drawn when it comes to protecting your physical person or by extension the persons of your most beloved . guns are fine , they work , they stop . But fists , swords , hell even teeth will go someway to deter.
But now we're on the topic of Theives ; i was sitting here doing some email etc about six weeks ago , went to the Jakes for a piss , came back and my backpack was gone : GT1,2,3,4,C,P 10 other rare PS1 games like BrahmaForce & Fluid . Seven gig of burnt Netware , pics . My camera , My Discman and approx 20 high-quality music CDs . My Passport .Rare books . **** practically all the essential oils of living, at least a grand, gone !
The little motherb*tch smackhead that walked off with them was described to security , not the cops who are extremely disinterested in young peoples welfare, the greenhorn cop who two hours later turned up still has'nt posted my passport renewal form.
I was down the caf the next day , and the Dumbass turns up looking for more games to sell for a fiver . Security recognizes him , grabs him , he wriggles free and starts to run , we ( me&security) tear after him and pin him up against the wall , but immediately by hits attitude i know he's sold my **** so i hit him and security practically removes his lips . Along strolls the law , he's whining & squealing but he does'nt press charges ( after making some noises about it ) , they question him about our allegations but do not seem at all interested considering we have video evidence of his theft . As i say , that was nearly two months ago. The resultant;
Two swollen lips for a grand + irreplaceables . Not value but i was'nt trying to protect my person , just my hard-earned goods and these are'nt worth the trouble if you were to rely on a jaundiced force, i'd rather rely on my vigilantes.
P.S if YW really needs to torture sex offenders prolongedly , rape might get him the right district.

Grand Prix · Oct 16, 2005

What about situations where a woman *murders* her husband who constantly beated her, is that self-defense? Would the woman be completely innocent? This happens all the time. What do you think?

*Not Manslaughter, but planned Murder*

Zardoz · Oct 16, 2005

DeLoreanBrown
...i was sitting here doing some email etc about six weeks ago , went to the Jakes for a piss , came back and my backpack was gone : GT1,2,3,4,C,P 10 other rare PS1 games like BrahmaForce & Fluid . Seven gig of burnt Netware , pics . My camera , My Discman and approx 20 high-quality music CDs . My Passport .Rare books . **** practically all the essential oils of living, at least a grand, gone !...

All that in a backpack (God knows why...) and you just left it there and walked away from it???

I'd never say you "deserved it" for such a mental lapse, but...

DeLoreanBrown · Oct 16, 2005

Zardoz
All that in a backpack (God knows why...) and you just left it there and walked away from it???

I'd never say you "deserved it" for such a mental lapse, but...

Yeah , i know , but if you think of a snail's appendage and a v.short piss , eh , :indiff:

yeah complete f' complacency

a6m5 · Oct 16, 2005

I'm sorry to hear that, DLBrown. It does sound like you messed up, leaving that much valuables unattended, but it is really frustrating when some punk steals your hard earned items.

Grand Prix
What about situations where a woman *murders* her husband who constantly beated her, is that self-defense? Would the woman be completely innocent? This happens all the time. What do you think?

*Not Manslaughter, but planned Murder*

If there's a sufficient evidence that she reported the abuse and asked for help. Also, if there was a reason she couldn't leave, due to the husband threatening to kill her if she leave, etc. If those things were documented in public records, then it is justified in my view. If it was someone who was just too dumb to leave while she still could, and kills the abusive husband one day because she felt like it, then I do think she should be charged. I realize it's not as black and white as my examples in some cases.

Where do you draw the line for "self defense"?

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